Coronovirus - Gamsat MARCH 2020

Bartman26 · 10-07-2020 11:31am

redser1 wrote: »

I know, the system is all very lucky dip, when it comes to the * score, there should be some other system like interviews or something to make it less mentally tough for people, like missing out on a lotto is not ideal... Did you apply for UCC with your 58? The programme there seems very good also!

Hi Redser, no I didn't apply to UCC at the time and in hindsight yeah it was foolish but I'm no spring chicken and I wanted to be near family which are based in Dublin and the west. Just as a side note by the way, in my job I meet a lot of gps and they are very impressed with the UL graduates.

RoundPony · 10-07-2020 11:33am

redser1 wrote: »

Just I guess the main thing I would question is what exactly you're paying for with UL? A list of learning outcomes and a GP to listen to you talk about it? I recognise everyone has a different way of learning but the fees are astronomical, I just wonder where all this money is being spent on in UL. Its strange.

I've gotten a question about whether UL have any lectures or teaching a lot via PM from people so might be better to answer here because it answers yours too.

The entire curriculum is not done through just PBL alone. There are lectures every week relevant to the case and anatomy lectures in smaller groups several times a week so there is still plenty of didactic teaching in the week. Also a lot of the tutors are available to work through questions with you - anatomy is a good example. You can pretty much drop into the lab and one of the tutors will be there and will happily help go through anything with you. UL also focuses more on clinical skills from year 1 than other schools I've heard - another non UL GEMS student feel free to comment here but this is what I've heard from others.

You also have a lot of interaction in PBL with your tutor who helps you through much of the material and adds to the discussion - also the PBL tutors are not exclusively GPs either just to note. Really the PBL delivery helps with understanding because you all try and figure it out rather than be told what is going on with the patient. That in and of itself keeps the learning really interesting. It is just one way of starting clinical thinking early on.

I think of it this way - anyone I have known in med school has to study outside of lectures. You won't understand or cover everything you need to know via lecture material across the board in any school. Plus you won't always come out of a lecture understanding - I've had to go to other resources and figure out what a lecturer was trying to explain in different ways that make more sense to me in both undergrad and now. So the studying outside of PBL/lectures is going to happen no matter what school you choose. Also, PBL is learning time. You are not sitting idle and waffling about - the tutors contribute and facilitate discussion around what is relevant and needed. Plus they help clarify things and make sure that what is important and relevant in a case is discussed. You'd be surprised how much you can learn from your peers and your tutor in these sessions. Plus you have a very captive audience with one tutor to ~8 students so you have really direct and detailed feedback on whether you are grasping something or not, doing it in enough detail or not, etc.

RoundPony · 10-07-2020 11:40am

redser1 wrote: »

I know, the system is all very lucky dip, when it comes to the * score, there should be some other system like interviews or something to make it less mentally tough for people, like missing out on a lotto is not ideal... Did you apply for UCC with your 58? The programme there seems very good also!

I can't even imagine what it would feel like to know that somebody else got in on the same score by total chance luck and you missed out. The system of using GAMSAT scores only takes out any interview bias which I like but then it is like lets just throw the whole fairness and objectiveness out the window by picking some person out of a hat so your life is determined by complete and utter luck.

redser1 · 10-07-2020 12:24pm

Anyone on this doing the UCC programme?

RoundPony · 10-07-2020 12:28pm

There was a user on here last year who started an insta account that seemed to die out after first semester but they go to UCC. Maybe they'd respond to messages - user name is Gradmedjourney on here and instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/gradmedjourney/

redser1 · 10-07-2020 2:12pm

RoundPony wrote: »

There was a user on here last year who started an insta account that seemed to die out after first semester but they go to UCC. Maybe they'd respond to messages - user name is Gradmedjourney on here and instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/gradmedjourney/

Thanks...yeah I don't think UL would be suited to my learning style...I just see it as spending time researching information and compiling it when you could just be learning it from lectures...but everyone is different! Hoping for UCC or Dublin...whats everyone predicting for scores?

hopefulsucess · 10-07-2020 2:46pm

is there any chance that there will be fewer international students this year, allowing more places for Irish GEMs?

ma003 · 10-07-2020 2:59pm

hopefulsucess wrote: »

is there any chance that there will be fewer international students this year, allowing more places for Irish GEMs?

Dunno about the other colleges but RCSI have said they cannot operate financially without their international students and are bringing them over early to quarantine before.

Flimsy_Boat · 10-07-2020 3:48pm

hopefulsucess wrote: »

is there any chance that there will be fewer international students this year, allowing more places for Irish GEMs?

I can understand why many people would like this to be true but it's really just wishful thinking. Here is what I know:

UCC accepted all the internationals in April/May and have asked everyone to come to Cork early to quarantine. If international students are unable to make it en masse, due to border closures, they will push back the start date (again) to accomodate them.

Internationals pay €45000 per year in tuition at UCC and an Irish/EU student only brings in €25 000 per year (including the government subsidy of €10 000).

To increase EU places, the school of medicine would have to ask for more funding from the government. That wouldn't be granted overnight unless the school was on the verge of collapse. But it isn't anywhere close to collapsing, as there are so many international students who want to come here and pay a premium for it.

If you look on the Ireland boards on studentdoctor.net, you can see that the American and Canadian students have already been accepted and that Irish college places were "full" in early May. There are a lot of disapponted students on those boards who wanted a spot. I'm sure they'd take it if UCC rings and says "Can you get here by x date" or "Can you attend a zoom orientation next week".

UCC and GEM have done a lot of preparation for the different scenarios that could arise in the Autumn. Online lectures were very similar to the real thing and despite time zone differences, students were able to attend them. My hunch is that EU places will not be increased because the course can be run online and clinical skills can be taught intensively once everyone is back in Cork.

Bartman26 · 10-07-2020 5:20pm

RoundPony wrote: »

I can't even imagine what it would feel like to know that somebody else got in on the same score by total chance luck and you missed out. The system of using GAMSAT scores only takes out any interview bias which I like but then it is like lets just throw the whole fairness and objectiveness out the window by picking some person out of a hat so your life is determined by complete and utter luck.

I know someone who applied in 2017 and 2018 with me on the same score (58) and also had Dublin schools 1st preference. They got offered RCSI in 2017 but decided to continue working and then got UCD in 2018. I got offered 3rd pref both years.. That's the lotto system of the waiting lists! But if you're not too long in the tooth and geographically it's not a big deal then preferences aren't as big an issue I think, same goal in the end.

RoundPony · 10-07-2020 6:38pm

redser1 wrote: »

Thanks...yeah I don't think UL would be suited to my learning style...I just see it as spending time researching information and compiling it when you could just be learning it from lectures...but everyone is different! Hoping for UCC or Dublin...whats everyone predicting for scores?

That's the thing - you just need to pick a place that feels right for you individually.

RoundPony · 10-07-2020 6:41pm

Flimsy_Boat wrote: »

UCC accepted all the internationals in April/May and have asked everyone to come to Cork early to quarantine. If international students are unable to make it en masse, due to border closures, they will push back the start date (again) to accomodate them.

UL offers have been out to international students for months too. They are planning on them coming in early so self isolate and get started. UCD is starting later to accommodate people getting in. There has been no mention of increased places for EU students.

I personally think they are going to get in and be fine for Sept start but it would be later in the semester or year that we are going to possibly have issues/people won't be able to travel for holidays, etc.

bella11 · 11-07-2020 1:53pm

Bartman26 wrote: »

I know someone who applied in 2017 and 2018 with me on the same score (58) and also had Dublin schools 1st preference. They got offered RCSI in 2017 but decided to continue working and then got UCD in 2018. I got offered 3rd pref both years.. That's the lotto system of the waiting lists! But if you're not too long in the tooth and geographically it's not a big deal then preferences aren't as big an issue I think, same goal in the end.

Thats actually crazy Bartman26..... such a lucky dip.... colleges really need to re-assess it, maybe even interviews when it comes to random selection? Very unfair

Bartman26 · 11-07-2020 3:31pm

bella11 wrote: »

Thats actually crazy Bartman26..... such a lucky dip.... colleges really need to re-assess it, maybe even interviews when it comes to random selection? Very unfair

Hi Bella, yeah don't get me started! The first year was sore enough but when it happened the 2nd year it just felt like a very unfair system. Totally agree about it needing to be reassessed. I know someone else who sat the Gamsat 7 times before they got it and once they were on the course they were never out of the top 15 percentile in the class. So in terms of it being a good indicator of who potentially will make a good medic or who deserves a place... Hmm I'm sceptical but it is what it is for the time being!! Pity though.

bella11 · 11-07-2020 6:11pm

Bartman26 wrote: »

Hi Bella, yeah don't get me started! The first year was sore enough but when it happened the 2nd year it just felt like a very unfair system. Totally agree about it needing to be reassessed. I know someone else who sat the Gamsat 7 times before they got it and once they were on the course they were never out of the top 15 percentile in the class. So in terms of it being a good indicator of who potentially will make a good medic or who deserves a place... Hmm I'm sceptical but it is what it is for the time being!! Pity though.

agreed it really is in a lot of cases down to luck.... interviews combined could be a more accurate, fair measure! anyone still think points could come down instead of up?:P

Bartman26 · 11-07-2020 7:08pm

bella11 wrote: »

agreed it really is in a lot of cases down to luck.... interviews combined could be a more accurate, fair measure! anyone still think points could come down instead of up?:P

Haha I really don't know Bella I try to let that bell curve business go over my head and just hope for the best!! But if there is a 2point deviation from last year I think there will be questions asked.. Def from the Australians anyway by the sounds of it!

medgal22 · 11-07-2020 8:15pm

Bartman26 wrote: »

Haha I really don't know Bella I try to let that bell curve business go over my head and just hope for the best!! But if there is a 2point deviation from last year I think there will be questions asked.. Def from the Australians anyway by the sounds of it!

haha will be just me and the Auzzies v ACER by the looks of things:pac:

Bartman26 · 11-07-2020 11:12pm

medgal22 wrote: »

haha will be just me and the Auzzies v ACER by the looks of things:pac:

And me medgal!

Flimsy_Boat · 12-07-2020 10:56am

redser1 wrote: »

Anyone on this doing the UCC programme?

Yep! It's great and I'm very happy with it. After January of 1st year, the instruction is systems-based, ie: learn everything about the lungs, kidneys and heart, from the anatomy to the pharmacology and microbiology.

Our class size is small, 80 - 85 students. Once we start clinical electives, we join up with the undergrad medicine programme and the class swells to 240 ish.

The timetable looks like this:

Year 1 - Basic science modules x 3. The first one runs September to December, the second module runs January to March, and the third module runs from March until final exams in May.

You get an exam at the end of each module that is 30% of your mark in that module, and one week to study for it. The basic science module includes anatomy, biochemistry, pharmacology, physiology (the one that takes the most time!), histology, pathology, immunology and microbiology.

In addition, you have a clinical practice module that runs from September to May, and it includes written exams, a patient interview project and OSCEs.

We also have 1 PBL/SGL session every week that is worth very little of our overall mark, but it does require a decent amount of work and a presentation.

Finally, you will have an epidemiology module that runs from September to March.

We have a sprinkling of ethics and law lectures as well, and these are given by law school faculty. Very interesting!

At the end of the year, you have 5 final exams, each worth 50-70% of your mark in that module.

Year 2 - Basic science module from September to December with all of the aforementioned subjects, now with an emphasis on neuroanatomy, neuropharmacology, neurophysiology etc.

Special Selected Module project where you learn about business or maritime medicine or ethics or palliative care. Or even a project of your own choosing.

January to May -- You are in clinical electives and can be sent to Waterford, Tralee, Cork (of course) or Tipperary. You also have one special elective of your own choosing in any specialty that lasts two weeks. UCC pays for your accomodation if you are sent outside of Cork.

There are more OSCEs and the emphasis from Year 2 is very clinical.

Year 3 and 4 - Clinical electives

Hope this helps!

AThoma · 13-07-2020 12:53pm

Hi there, just wondering have other colleges except trinity put conferring dates on their students transcripts, because according to the email on the 3rd of June from the CAO, complete transcripts contain the conferring date but mine doesn’t have any and I’m slightly freaking out.

RoundPony · 13-07-2020 1:18pm

AThoma wrote: »

Hi there, just wondering have other colleges except trinity put conferring dates on their students transcripts, because according to the email on the 3rd of June from the CAO, complete transcripts contain the conferring date but mine doesn’t have any and I’m slightly freaking out.

I wouldn't worry too much. You'll get an email about week before the offers letting you know whether your application is eligible/ineligible. If they deem you "ineligible" it just means they usually need more paperwork or there is an issue with your transcript i.e. no date as yours didn't. At this point, just call the admissions offices in the universities (I only bothered to contact my first preference) and they will tell you exactly what to do to rectify the issue. If there wasn't a date on yours, this must happen to other Trinity students too.

Tons of people get sent the "ineligible application" email and, while it is stress inducing, all you need to do is update whatever they tell you and you'll be totally fine once you get your documents back to the CAO. I actually emailed mine to the admissions office and they accepted it that way. Once you have a 2.1 in your primary degree, it will all be fine.

Peek1 · 13-07-2020 2:44pm

Hey everyone,

Since we're all waiting for now, wondering if anyone has any info/advice/tips regarding getting the grad med loan.
From reading previous threads, BOI, Ulster bank and AIB all used to have a grad med loan, but it seems after contacting them all it's only BOI that does it.

BOI told me same thing as everyone here probably knows by now, have to have a "decently strong guarantor" and an acceptance letter.
The person on the phone gave me the impression that generally, its not difficult to get the loan but the threads here seem to say a different story. The BOI guy on the phone wouldn't tell me anything apart from that.

Considering myself and my guarantor are in okayish financial situations, I wonder if there is anything extra that I can do to get accepted? Or even quicken the process so that If i get rejected, I find out sooner rather than later.

Would appreciate any advice/info from anyone that has gone through the process, and ofc I understand its judged very much case by case, and nobody can know until the time comes, I guess its worth posting anyways.

Thanks.

hazelnut11 · 13-07-2020 4:36pm

Peek1 wrote: »

Hey everyone,

Since we're all waiting for now, wondering if anyone has any info/advice/tips regarding getting the grad med loan.
From reading previous threads, BOI, Ulster bank and AIB all used to have a grad med loan, but it seems after contacting them all it's only BOI that does it.

BOI told me same thing as everyone here probably knows by now, have to have a "decently strong guarantor" and an acceptance letter.
The person on the phone gave me the impression that generally, its not difficult to get the loan but the threads here seem to say a different story. The BOI guy on the phone wouldn't tell me anything apart from that.

Considering myself and my guarantor are in okayish financial situations, I wonder if there is anything extra that I can do to get accepted? Or even quicken the process so that If i get rejected, I find out sooner rather than later.

Would appreciate any advice/info from anyone that has gone through the process, and ofc I understand its judged very much case by case, and nobody can know until the time comes, I guess its worth posting anyways.

Thanks.

I think it depends on the college, UL are more relaxed about waiting for the loan to come through than RCSI for example. Where are you planning on going?

Peek1 · 13-07-2020 6:06pm

hazelnut11 wrote: »

I think it depends on the college, UL are more relaxed about waiting for the loan to come through than RCSI for example. Where are you planning on going?

Oh, wasn't aware of that.

Main one I'm aiming for is UL.

RoundPony · 13-07-2020 6:11pm

Peek1 wrote: »

Oh, wasn't aware of that.

Main one I'm aiming for is UL.

I don't have direct experience but from what I know from those who did is that you must have blood relative which wasn't so much the case before. Once they are in anyway decent shape financially you should be fine. As far as those that I know, nobody was turned away and very few dropped out so that should mean positive things for most (if not all) getting the loan once they were in.

hazelnut11 · 13-07-2020 7:04pm

not trying to continue the debate on UL GEMS but is the failure rate high? Looking at past threads it looks worrying but I'm guessing it has improved a lot since then as those threads are from the first few years of the course..

ma003 · 13-07-2020 9:32pm

AThoma wrote: »

Hi there, just wondering have other colleges except trinity put conferring dates on their students transcripts, because according to the email on the 3rd of June from the CAO, complete transcripts contain the conferring date but mine doesn’t have any and I’m slightly freaking out.

I think in the cao email they said if you haven't graduated to add a note saying that you will be graduating and when. I'm in Trinity and I asked the academic registry for it and got it the same day. They just said she got this grade and will be graduating in November.

DivaDanto · 13-07-2020 10:07pm

Hi AThoma,

I'm the same - Trinity graduate - no date of conferral on transcript. They do mention if you don't have date of conferral on transcript you should also attach certified copy of degree certificate. It also has to be in English rather than Latin. If you email Trinity Academic Registry, they will send you a translation of your degree cert and you can send that on to CAO as well just to be on the safe side. I'm sure will be grand either way but no harm organising that ahead of time in case they do require it so you're not under pressure.

RoundPony · 13-07-2020 10:12pm

hazelnut11 wrote: »

not trying to continue the debate on UL GEMS but is the failure rate high? Looking at past threads it looks worrying but I'm guessing it has improved a lot since then as those threads are from the first few years of the course..

I mean I would say no. Roughly 6-8 sit the repeats and usually includes some I grades. One person has had to repeat 1st year in the last three years.

bella11 · 13-07-2020 10:34pm

RoundPony wrote: »

I mean I would say no. Roughly 6-8 sit the repeats and usually includes some I grades. One person has had to repeat 1st year in the last three years.

I guess it would really depend on the year.... I’ve heard a lot of people say UL is a very very tough course so it’s ironic that some people would be snobby about it from other colleges!

Coronovirus - Gamsat MARCH 2020

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