Coronovirus - Gamsat MARCH 2020

gradmedgirl

Hey guys,

Is it still running? Surely they will cancel it with 700 people in one room is major risk...

Confused_!

Yeah after the Pandemic announcement from WHO today, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before it's cancelled. They'll email soon if that's the case. Really hoping it can be rescheduled in time for Sept 2020 entry, really don't want to have to put medicine off for a year!

gradmedgirl

Confused_! wrote: »

Yeah after the Pandemic announcement from WHO today, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before it's cancelled. They'll email soon if that's the case. Really hoping it can be rescheduled in time for Sept 2020 entry, really don't want to have to put medicine off for a year!

Thanks for the reply!

I called them this morning, and spoke with one of their representatives who said they're currently in a meeting and the likelihood it is rescheduled until April or June is high, they'll be emailing in the coming days from what that spokesperson said

Confused_!

Oh interesting , if it was April, that should still be ok for Sept, and maybe if it was June, hopefully GEM courses would take that into account and delay start date by a few weeks or something? So perhaps all is not lost if it does have to be moved!

gradmedgirl

Confused_! wrote: »

Oh interesting , if it was April, that should still be ok for Sept, and maybe if it was June, hopefully GEM courses would take that into account and delay start date by a few weeks or something? So perhaps all is not lost if it does have to be moved!

Yeah this is the same question I asked the person on the phone and he said that it's all really uncertain but the med schools will need to "work together to adjust for the late applications" but he couldn't say with certainty!

Are you doing yours in Dublin?

Confused_!

Yeah fair enough, I suppose this is all so unprecedented so there will probably be a lot of uncertainty for a while!

No, I'm sitting it in Limerick, closer to home! The room seems small enough in Limerick, I imagine there's only about 100-200 people sitting it there. Is it on in UCD Blackrock campus in Dublin? That's where it was in September!

gradmedgirl

Confused_! wrote: »

Yeah fair enough, I suppose this is all so unprecedented so there will probably be a lot of uncertainty for a while!

No, I'm sitting it in Limerick, closer to home! The room seems small enough in Limerick, I imagine there's only about 100-200 people sitting it there. Is it on in UCD Blackrock campus in Dublin? That's where it was in September!

No I think it's in ucd campus in their belfield campus!

Hows the study going so far? Are you hoping for a place for 2020? I'm aiming for 2021

Confused_!

Yeah, hoping for 2020! Study has been going ok, but really hard to find the motivation sometimes! I sat it in Sept with very little S3 prep, but managed to scrape a 55 total, so I'm feeling bit better about this round with some more study done (but who knows what will happen on the day)...
How's your study going?

Medlo

Thanks for sharing that information with us.. Hopefully we'll know soon. I'll be sitting in London and would have to travel there.

galwaypharmer

I'm assuming they would have to reschedule it....mad

gradmedgirl

Hey all just got off the phone with them again, and they've told me there cancelling 2 or 3 venues including Ireland and UK.

Not sure which ones they said emails will be sent today.

Ugh, not good. They should have communicated sooner, especially for people like myself who are travelling long distance for the exam (and have to pay to accommodate for the day)

Medlo

Thanks for this.

Have they told you if/when they're rescheduling?

musicis4life

Hopefully they'll send the emails soon so we can make plans

gradmedgirl

musicis4life wrote: »

Hopefully they'll send the emails soon so we can make plans

Yeah. I mean I dont mind the extra study time but just as long as it isn't completely scratched and merged with September which is what some of the people in the gamsat ireland group are saying! Ugh that would suck for 2020 applicants... but its just here say so lets wait and see!

musicis4life

Yeah I'm away on holiday in April so I'm hoping they don't reschedule it for then

gradmedgirl wrote: »

Yeah. I mean I dont mind the extra study time but just as long as it isn't completely scratched and merged with September which is what some of the people in the gamsat ireland group are saying! Ugh that would suck for 2020 applicants... but its just here say so lets wait and see!

gradmedgirl

musicis4life wrote: »

Yeah I'm away on holiday in April so I'm hoping they don't reschedule it for then

Where to? Italy?

purnimasnow

Anybody else constantly refreshing emails waiting for an update from GAMSAT?!

musicis4life

Yes 🙄

purnimasnow wrote: »

Anybody else constantly refreshing emails waiting for an update from GAMSAT?!

taxignorant

Yep, I'm checking every couple of hours. Now that school and creche is closed I will have zero study opportunity, possibly for 4+ weeks if they remain closed over Easter mid term with small kids underfoot. If it is scheduled before June it will scupper me until the next sitting which means losing a year of course. The closures and measures being taken are the correct course of action of course. C'est la vie, hopefully whatever ACER decide eventually we will get to sit it.

gradmedgirl

taxignorant wrote: »

Yep, I'm checking every couple of hours. Now that school and creche is closed I will have zero study opportunity, possibly for 4+ weeks if they remain closed over Easter mid term with small kids underfoot. If it is scheduled before June it will scupper me until the next sitting which means losing a year of course. The closures and measures being taken are the correct course of action of course. C'est la vie, hopefully whatever ACER decide eventually we will get to sit it.

I'm not even sure UCD will allow the 700 odd students or whatever that are sitting in their campus to take the gamsat regardless if what acer says or does....

taxignorant

Agree gradmedgirl they need to cancel the Dublin exam. The government advice has not been given lightly. No gatherings indoors of more than 100. Leaving cert orals are postponed and most large University end of year exams off.

musicis4life

Yeah with all the universities closed I can't see it going ahead next weekend which is a shame really.

gradmedgirl wrote: »

I'm not even sure UCD will allow the 700 odd students or whatever that are sitting in their campus to take the gamsat regardless if what acer says or does....

galwaypharmer

I don't think Acer would risk going ahead of government advice to put the exam on.....

sbm_s

if the March sitting is cancelled next week and not rescheduled, next sitting is in september, then could there be a possibility the colleges will reduce the points required in order to fill places? as im sure a lot of people would be sitting march for potential entry in sept

Confused_!

It's official, March is not happening.

I'm glad they have let us know now, I was so unsure about whether or not to spend the weekend cramming.

But yes, hopefully the colleges will have to take all this into consideration and either reduce points, or have a later start date to accommodate a late resit!

musicis4life

Yeah thankfully they left us know. Now I'm just wondering when the resit will be

Confused_! wrote: »

It's official, March is not happening.

I'm glad they have let us know now, I was so unsure about whether or not to spend the weekend cramming.

But yes, hopefully the colleges will have to take all this into consideration and either reduce points, or have a later start date to accommodate a late resit!

Banaba

They have stated in the email also that they realise people need it for 2021 entry.. what about 2020 entry for those in Ireland??

gradmedgirl

Banaba wrote: »

They have stated in the email also that they realise people need it for 2021 entry.. what about 2020 entry for those in Ireland??

I think it must be a mis print as I'm sure 2021 you still have September 20 and March 21 so surely they meant 2020 entry

Confused_!

Banaba wrote: »

They have stated in the email also that they realise people need it for 2021 entry.. what about 2020 entry for those in Ireland??

I think to be fair in Australia, they rely on the March sitting too, as their semester starts in Jan 2021, so September is too late for them as they need time for interviews as well.
So while they have said for 2021 entry, it kind of relates to us as well, as we'll be goosed if it is cancelled altogether!
It's only England that don't rely on the March sitting, they have already offered their places for Sept 2020 entry!

gradmedgirl

Confused_! wrote: »

It's official, March is not happening.

I'm glad they have let us know now, I was so unsure about whether or not to spend the weekend cramming.

But yes, hopefully the colleges will have to take all this into consideration and either reduce points, or have a later start date to accommodate a late resit!

I have a feeling itll be the opposite, in fact, I think itll be higher points, my guess is 63 or 64, heck even 65 but that's just my theory

taxignorant

I think if they can reschedule the exam for June or July, the Universities in question and the CAO should be able to manage for Sept entry. Of course that depends on the trajectory the pandemic takes. Often with outbreaks like this there is a second flare the autumn after it appears so there's no guarantee that Sept will happen either unless they could break it up into smaller groups or take other precautions. Or perhaps Universities would switch to interview, CV, and undergraduate GPA or other assessment methods. We could be living with uncertainty on it for quite some time, I think studying for a few hours each day and sitting tight are in order.

Confused_!

gradmedgirl wrote: »

I have a feeling itll be the opposite, in fact, I think itll be higher points, my guess is 63 or 64, heck even 65 but that's just my theory

I don't think so to be fair, as there won't have been enough people from September that got those scores (as significantly fewer sit it in September). They'll still need to fill their places and hit quotas for number of students in their courses, so I think they'll have no choice but to lower the points to fill the places (if there is no resit) - hence why UL have the lowest points, as they have nearly double the places of any other GEM programme in Ireland!

I have just emailed UL about what their response might be, but I'm not hopeful about getting an answer tbh!

Banaba

gradmedgirl wrote: »

I have a feeling itll be the opposite, in fact, I think itll be higher points, my guess is 63 or 64, heck even 65 but that's just my theory

Why do you think higher points? If they kiss a sitting surely that would mean there would be less applying and more places to fill?

gradmedgirl

taxignorant wrote: »

I think if they can reschedule the exam for June or July, the Universities in question and the CAO should be able to manage for Sept entry. Of course that depends on the trajectory the pandemic takes. Often with outbreaks like this there is a second flare the autumn after it appears so there's no guarantee that Sept will happen either unless they could break it up into smaller groups or take other precautions. Or perhaps Universities would switch to interview, CV, and undergraduate GPA or other assessment methods. We could be living with uncertainty on it for quite some time, I think studying for a few hours each day and sitting tight are in order.

The interview and CV and undergrad gpa wouldn't be the best method. I know nurses who have applied with 10 years+ clinical experience and have worked in areas of surgery nursing and cardiac nursing.... so can you imagine their CVs and interviews compared to someone just finishing their undergrad... and as regard to gpa, the issue there is that many people would have done their degree outside of ireland and so how do you weigh someone who has a Physics degree from UCL compared to a Ag Science degree from IT Tallaght... I think it's super difficult to use that criteria

gradmedgirl

Banaba wrote: »

Why do you think higher points? If they kiss a sitting surely that would mean there would be less applying and more places to fill?

Yes but dont forget, people like myself and others have sat the gamsat in Sept 2019, and some in March 2019 and have done significantly well.... well enough to already already get into gradmed in dublin and so if you lower the points, you'll have people who pretty much dont need to sit it and are just gonna get in with their own score they did in the previous 2 or 3 possible sittings...

Confused_! wrote: »

I don't think so to be fair, as there won't have been enough people from September that got those scores (as significantly fewer sit it in September). They'll still need to fill their places and hit quotas for number of students in their courses, so I think they'll have no choice but to lower the points to fill the places (if there is no resit) - hence why UL have the lowest points, as they have nearly double the places of any other GEM programme in Ireland!

Another reason why I think they will increase it a little anecdotal but I've spoken to a few of the girls ata specific gradmed programme gave me a fair idea of the issues involved in the administration side and convinced me that this year or next the score may go up.. feel free to PM me I can tell you more about it not sure I should post publically though

sk9

gradmedgirl wrote: »

I have a feeling itll be the opposite, in fact, I think itll be higher points, my guess is 63 or 64, heck even 65 but that's just my theory

Based on what? Marks been fluctuating at 60 or below for a number of years, can't see a massive (and a jump of 5 is massive) leap taking place this year.

sk9

gradmedgirl wrote: »

Yes but dont forget, people like myself and others have sat the gamsat in Sept 2019, and some in March 2019 and have done significantly well.... well enough to already already get into gradmed in dublin and so if you lower the points, you'll have people who pretty much dont need to sit it and are just gonna get in with their own score they did in the previous 2 or 3 possible sittings...

I'm not following. There's people with high scores from previous sittings every year, how would they cause scores to go up? Missing the march sitting means less people will have scores at 60+ so surely scores must go down slightly.

How can scores go up 5, 3 or even 1 point under these conditions?

Though in saying that I'm sure the March sitting will be in Summer so people shouldn't sweat it just yet.

aesopikea

I'm not sure how the points would go UP in the situation where there is no sitting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the points are based off of supply and demand are they not?

It's not as though RCSI will decide "hey, we are going to set the points at 61 this year, anybody who gets 61 or over can get in". The points are dictated by the results of the applicants, the preferences of those applicants, and the number of places available in the courses.

If we look at a simple example, let's say 10 people complete the GAMSAT worldwide (bear with me!) last March, and 10 people completed it last September, and for handiness sake, there are no other applicants in the system other than these 20 people. The resulting points of both groups of people were as follows:

1. 65
2. 64
3. 63
4. 62
5. 61
6. 60
7. 59
8. 58
9. 57
10. 56

So just to be clear there are 2 people with each of the scores above, 1 from last March, and 1 from last September.

All of the applicants have the following order selected on their CAO:

1. RCSI
2. UCD
3. UCC
4. UL

Now we need to know how many places each college has in their course this year. Let's say the colleges announce that they have the following number of places available:

RCSI: 5 places
UCD: 5 places
UCC: 5 places
UL: 5 places

So now, based on the points of our applicants in the system, and their preferences, the points for the courses will end up being:

RCSI: 63* (2 on 65, 2 on 64, and 1 on 63 got in)
UCD: 61 (1 on 63, 2 on 62, 2 on 61 got in)
UCC: 59* (2 on 60, 2 on 59, 1 on 58 got in)
UL: 57 (1 on 58, 2 on 57, 2 on 56 got in)

So now if we include a third sitting, March 2020, and assume that the applicants achieve the exact same results as our March 2019 and September 2019 applicants, and that they have the same order of preferences on their CAO, and that the number of places in each course remains the same.

This is what the points situation would look like:

RCSI: 64* (3 on 65, 2 on 64)
UCD: 62* (1 on 64, 3 on 63, 1 on 62)
UCC: 61 (2 on 62, 3 on 61)
UL: 59* (3 on 60, 2 on 59)

So 10 of our applicants don't get in unfortunately. 1 person on 59 points, and anybody on 58 or below don't get a place.

So with this small example, we can see the effect another sitting can have on the points of the courses, assuming that the number of places in each course remains the same. The only factors which could cause the points to go UP would be the following:

1. Number of places in the courses being reduced (unlikely).
2. The results from September 2019 for people who are applying are unusually skewed towards higher marks (unlikely)
3. There are an unusually large number of people with high points who for some reason decided not take their place in previous years, (and their place went to somebody on the same or lower points in previous years) who decide now that they want to take their place in the course they are offered (unlikely)

Overall this is looking like if anything, there would be a points drop for the courses if GAMSAT doesn't have a sitting between now and when places are offered to people starting grad med in September. The points could end up remaining the same if there are enough people with sufficient points already in the system, but missing out on a whole sitting worldwide would have to have an impact on that, no question, so a points drop would definitely be possible.

Banaba

So what’s everyone’s plan now? Keep studying or wait until we hear more?

Confused_!

Banaba wrote: »

So what’s everyone’s plan now? Keep studying or wait until we hear more?

Well I'm taking the week off anyway, they'll let us know what the story is by the 23rd, so I'm going to take it from there!

taxignorant

gradmedgirl wrote: »

The interview and CV and undergrad gpa wouldn't be the best method. I know nurses who have applied with 10 years+ clinical experience and have worked in areas of surgery nursing and cardiac nursing.... so can you imagine their CVs and interviews compared to someone just finishing their undergrad... and as regard to gpa, the issue there is that many people would have done their degree outside of ireland and so how do you weigh someone who has a Physics degree from UCL compared to a Ag Science degree from IT Tallaght... I think it's super difficult to use that criteria

Well designed and well structured interviews can take such differences in experience into account without unduely biasing the outcome towards those with clinical practice under their belt.

But equally, their experience as nurses; to respond to the example you gave, is so valuable and would likely make them better doctors so I think it should be taken into account.

A doctor's ability to communicate with patients in order to get the information they need in a patient history, work as part of a team and convey a diagnosis or prognosis are key qualities that can be assessed in an interview which really aren't currently assessed.

There is some evidence to support other forms of assessment for selection such as undergrad GPA, see the following paper; https://www.mja.com.au/system/files/issues/188_06_170308/wil10810_fm.pdf

Both nationally and internationally, degrees (and even diplomas and other types of awards) are regulated and have to submit to HEA and other bodies all sorts of supporting documentation as to their standard. So a level 8 or level 9 degree no matter where it is taught or what the topic is has proven it is to a certain standard.

I'm just throwing ideas out as to how gradmed courses might overcome the issue if exams cannot go ahead.

Very well done on the score you got! Maybe you can share tips with the rest of us if you haven't already on another thread?

taxignorant

Banaba wrote: »

So what’s everyone’s plan now? Keep studying or wait until we hear more?

Can't keep studying much as have kids off ... Thought about teaching them logarithms and radioactive decay but while they are smart it may be beyond them 😉 (they are under 7) May get an hour or two in the evenings in. I would imagine I will be out of the running for 2020 as a result of this but don't want to take foot off too much for Sept sitting.

sk9

taxignorant wrote: »

Can't keep studying much as have kids off ... Thought about teaching them logarithms and radioactive decay but while they are smart it may be beyond them �� (they are under 7) May get an hour or two in the evenings in. I would imagine I will be out of the running for 2020 as a result of this but don't want to take foot off too much for Sept sitting.

Fair play to you doing the exam whilst looking after your kids, I studied for September last year and found it hard enough without any college/childcare and only 30h work per week. Work paid off though thankfully.

Maybe you're on to something with the teaching (seriously, two birds with one stone). Simple physics or OChem revision possibly? If you can teach it you can understand it .

Keep in mind I have no kids myself so could be talking out of my arse

sk9

aesopikea wrote: »

I'm not sure how the points would go UP in the situation where there is no sitting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the points are based off of supply and demand are they not?

It's not as though RCSI will decide "hey, we are going to set the points at 61 this year, anybody who gets 61 or over can get in". The points are dictated by the results of the applicants, the preferences of those applicants, and the number of places available in the courses.

If we look at a simple example, let's say 10 people complete the GAMSAT worldwide (bear with me!) last March, and 10 people completed it last September, and for handiness sake, there are no other applicants in the system other than these 20 people. The resulting points of both groups of people were as follows:

1. 65
2. 64
3. 63
4. 62
5. 61
6. 60
7. 59
8. 58
9. 57
10. 56

So just to be clear there are 2 people with each of the scores above, 1 from last March, and 1 from last September.

All of the applicants have the following order selected on their CAO:

1. RCSI
2. UCD
3. UCC
4. UL

Now we need to know how many places each college has in their course this year. Let's say the colleges announce that they have the following number of places available:

RCSI: 5 places
UCD: 5 places
UCC: 5 places
UL: 5 places

So now, based on the points of our applicants in the system, and their preferences, the points for the courses will end up being:

RCSI: 63* (2 on 65, 2 on 64, and 1 on 63 got in)
UCD: 61 (1 on 63, 2 on 62, 2 on 61 got in)
UCC: 59* (2 on 60, 2 on 59, 1 on 58 got in)
UL: 57 (1 on 58, 2 on 57, 2 on 56 got in)

So now if we include a third sitting, March 2020, and assume that the applicants achieve the exact same results as our March 2019 and September 2019 applicants, and that they have the same order of preferences on their CAO, and that the number of places in each course remains the same.

This is what the points situation would look like:

RCSI: 64* (3 on 65, 2 on 64)
UCD: 62* (1 on 64, 3 on 63, 1 on 62)
UCC: 61 (2 on 62, 3 on 61)
UL: 59* (3 on 60, 2 on 59)

So 10 of our applicants don't get in unfortunately. 1 person on 59 points, and anybody on 58 or below don't get a place.

So with this small example, we can see the effect another sitting can have on the points of the courses, assuming that the number of places in each course remains the same. The only factors which could cause the points to go UP would be the following:

1. Number of places in the courses being reduced (unlikely).
2. The results from September 2019 for people who are applying are unusually skewed towards higher marks (unlikely)
3. There are an unusually large number of people with high points who for some reason decided not take their place in previous years, (and their place went to somebody on the same or lower points in previous years) who decide now that they want to take their place in the course they are offered (unlikely)

Overall this is looking like if anything, there would be a points drop for the courses if GAMSAT doesn't have a sitting between now and when places are offered to people starting grad med in September. The points could end up remaining the same if there are enough people with sufficient points already in the system, but missing out on a whole sitting worldwide would have to have an impact on that, no question, so a points drop would definitely be possible.

Good post, can see the points dropping but I wouldn't be relying on it

Think gradmedgirl was trying to put the ****s up her compititors saying scores would go up naughty

Confused_!

Ah no need for swipes at anyone, it's a tense enough time and we're all worried about what it'll mean for us, and the reality is we don't know what will be this August.

Also, I heard back from UL but as expected, they don't have any answers yet, this was their reply: "I know GAMSAT are looking into rescheduling this exam. The school I’m afraid has no say in this date. Please keep an eye on your emails from GAMSAT they will keep you updated."


Also, I don't know if anyone gets those emails from Peter Griffiths from the Griffiths Review? For anyone that doesn't, this was his two cents on what the options are and what it could mean for us (I've edited it so it only has the Irish relevant details):


" 1. Gamsat is still held but at a later date. ACER have said they will be releasing another statement by the 23rd March so this is still a possibility. If this happens I feel it's extremely unlikely that the rescheduled test would be before June or July to allow time for the coronavirus restrictions to be lifted. In this case everything should proceed with uni applications etc as normal although Irish students may not discover if they have a place until very near the start date of their courses.

If Gamsat is not rescheduled and just skips to the September sitting:
For Irish candidates the situation would be much more complicated since the Irish courses all start in September.
There are 2 possibilities -
1.Universities decide to delay the start of courses a couple of months until for example late October or November, lost time could be made up with shorter holiday periods.
This would be quite feasible since Irish uni's do not hold interviews for courses requiring Gamsat but would require ACER to get the results out quickly.

2.Universities decide to recruit (for this year only) using other academic information e.g. school and university grades.
I don't think they'll swap to another test such as UCAT at this stage as it's too late."

Confused_!

Has everyone seen the news about GAMSAT being an online test at the end of May?? It'll be very interesting to see how this is going to work, but all going well it should mean it'll count for September 2020 entry here!

musicis4life

Yeah it will be interesting. How can we trust that we're not up against people looking at notes?

Confused_! wrote: »

Has everyone seen the news about GAMSAT being an online test at the end of May?? It'll be very interesting to see how this is going to work, but all going well it should mean it'll count for September 2020 entry here!

Confused_!

musicis4life wrote: »

Yeah it will be interesting. Did you see it says AEST time how does that work for us in gmt?

Well I suppose that is only referring to registration time frame for now, I'm sure when they've set the official time/date for it, they'll have to set a GMT time for us? Though, we will probably get a different test to Australian cohort to prevent cheating, as they will have finished by the time we start?

taxignorant

I'm fairly screwed, this was my worst case scenario. I have no way to study while taking care of kids, partner is Frontline medical staff and I am too. Im not even sure kids won't be bursting into room mid exam as we can't send them anywhere with quarantine!

Will try it out but heck these are crazy times. I'm glad people won't miss out entirely who wanted to apply this year.

Tacadh

This will be so strange, and it’ll leave the exam very easy to cheating. What’s to say someone won’t have somebody else in the room with them while doing the exam who has done it before or something? Surely there’ll be webcam monitors or something to prevent cheating?

Confused_!

Tacadh wrote: »

This will be so strange, and it’ll leave the exam very easy to cheating. What’s to say someone won’t have somebody else in the room with them while doing the exam who has done it before or something? Surely there’ll be webcam monitors or something to prevent cheating?

Yeah very hard to see how they can prevent cheating this way! Most speculation is that they will use webcams, but there's still a lot they won't be able to see with a webcam, and it would be pretty hard to monitor hundreds of students via webcam at the same time. And how will they manage toilet breaks? Still a lot to find out yet!