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Coronovirus - Gamsat MARCH 2020
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taxignorant wrote: »I totally think many of these arguments are valid but I think there are a tiny number of people affected. I would imagine most people who scored well in Sept 2018 and March 2019 took their place in first year last Sept. There may have been a few who were holding on but I doubt many. So essentially it is the small number of unfortunate candidates who scored in the high fifties low sixties from Sept 2019 who chose not to resit and gambled points would not go up this time. It's really crappy I would be so annoyed if I was in that position. I'm also annoyed to be in this cohort, it has been quite a rollercoaster. It has been draining to say the least. 60,000+ leaving cert students are in a similar boat. I know phds who had vivas cancelled a day before. It's horrible. I hope there can be a fair outcome for people.
agreed, it is crappy....there just has to be some discrepancy if over a 10 year period scores are very similar and then all of a sudden points shoot up when you can do it at home. Regardless if only one person is affected, thats one person too many. But I appreciate your rationality with this post, it differs from the snideness of other posters.... this whole pandemic has been unfair on everyone in so many ways.0 -
If more candidates report it, they are more likely to give a toss. It's not just about "someone", it's about a whole cohort who did an exam that MAY not be standardised. It reflects a bad image on the colleges if they decide to do nothing.
Agreed. If the GEM schools are going to use the GAMSAT pretty much as the sole instrument of selection, they have a responsibility to ensure that the test is at least been properly standardised across cohorts and that candidates are fairly selected.
I plan on writing to the schools by tomorrow and if they do nothing, at least I’ve said my piece.0 -
agreed, it is crappy....there just has to be some discrepancy if over a 10 year period scores are very similar and then all of a sudden points shoot up when you can do it at home. Regardless if only one person is affected, thats one person too many. But I appreciate your rationality with this post, it differs from the snideness of other posters.... this whole pandemic has been unfair on everyone in so many ways.
Ah sure how could you not empathize. GAMSAT online or offline is fairly harrowing. Insurance is necessary though, I'm going to register for the next sitting in case points go over. That gives two shots to improve for 2021. It might be worth doing the same as unpalatable as it might be.
People are speculating that it may well be online again so would be really interesting if they change it up. I feel everyone should either sit the same time or essay topics should not be repeated. Maybe the format should change altogether. In would be imagine the number of people who had exams reopened was very small. Hopefully it at worst means a delay of a year, which I know is a small consolation.0 -
To be fair, the curves have never stayed the same and have always increased or decreased by a point or two ( more recently an increase - as they have this year). I totally get how people who sat in Sept and felt comfortable are now concerned, but at the end of the day it's still a bell curve and shouldn't mean a significant increase in scores. Frankly, I can't imagine the colleges care - or have the resources or time to question all this. Can't see a situation where the points go up by more than 1 for each university and every year people deal with the uncertainty of whether their score will be enough, but the online format just gives people something to blame.. (not looking for an argument)0
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I doubt emailing the colleges independently will make a difference, CAO is merely a facilitator, it is up to up ACER to in force fairness. I sent ACER an email and this is there response.
Dear XXXXXXX,
GAMSAT section and overall scores are comparable across years or testing times, but not percentiles. Percentiles are additional information. They are only valid for a particular sitting cohort. For example, percentiles in September 2019 are different from those in May 2020. Additionally, the universities do not receive or use percentiles.
Regards
The GAMSAT Team
ACER0 -
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To be fair, the curves have never stayed the same and have always increased or decreased by a point or two ( more recently an increase - as they have this year). I totally get how people who sat in Sept and felt comfortable are now concerned, but at the end of the day it's still a bell curve and shouldn't mean a significant increase in scores. Frankly, I can't imagine the colleges care - or have the resources or time to question all this. Can't see a situation where the points go up by more than 1 for each university and every year people deal with the uncertainty of whether their score will be enough, but the online format just gives people something to blame.. (not looking for an argument)
Really not looking for an argument either, but arguing that something is not standardised is not looking for someone to blame. Its the sole instrument in Ireland unlike every other country - its an extremely important exam for entry, Ireland is the only country where it is used as the sole instrument for entry? Regardless if they do or don't care, doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up for what is right. If everyone had that attitude for all sorts of discrepancies in society, we would have a messed up world.0 -
Thank you for posting this. I don't know why but I find it comforting to read that and it might well be the case that there won't be a colossal shift in points. It's entirely possible that this years prospective students just happen to be more vocal about getting higher scores given the circumstances we're in. While it is quite disconcerting reading the comments made by higher scorers as a Sept 2019 sitter, it is fair to say that those scores were earned and cost a lot more anxiety and uncertainty compared to our sittinggradmed2020 wrote: »I doubt emailing the colleges independently will make a difference, CAO is merely a facilitator, it is up to up ACER to in force fairness. I sent ACER an email and this is there response.
Dear XXXXXXX,
GAMSAT section and overall scores are comparable across years or testing times, but not percentiles. Percentiles are additional information. They are only valid for a particular sitting cohort. For example, percentiles in September 2019 are different from those in May 2020. Additionally, the universities do not receive or use percentiles.
Regards
The GAMSAT Team
ACER0 -
Really not looking for an argument either, but arguing that something is not standardised is not looking for someone to blame. Its the sole instrument in Ireland unlike every other country - its an extremely important exam for entry, Ireland is the only country where it is used as the sole instrument for entry? Regardless if they do or don't care, doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up for what is right. If everyone had that attitude for all sorts of discrepancies in society, we would have a messed up world.
I'm not looking for an argument either, but you're acting like this is a grave injustice. Even IF there has been grade inflation for some candidates (and there's no proof of that so far) they might still be good students and in four years become good doctors. No one is entitled to a college place, you can try your best but sometimes it's just not your time. This pandemic hasn't been fair to anyone but that's life.0 -
agreed on everything but all GAMSATS are horrific and well earned tbh!0
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Really not looking for an argument either, but arguing that something is not standardised is not looking for someone to blame. Its the sole instrument in Ireland unlike every other country - its an extremely important exam for entry, Ireland is the only country where it is used as the sole instrument for entry? Regardless if they do or don't care, doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up for what is right. If everyone had that attitude for all sorts of discrepancies in society, we would have a messed up world.
I think the biggest injustice are the financial barriers. Having the 62k fees or access to credit and money to live on for four years is probably more of a barrier than anything else. We should be campaigning for funding if we truly want to eradicate injustices.
It will be ok, if it doesn't happen this time the next exam is open for anyone to register and may be in the same format.0 -
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You're right, there is always a shift in the curve by a little bitTo be fair, the curves have never stayed the same and have always increased or decreased by a point or two ( more recently an increase - as they have this year). I totally get how people who sat in Sept and felt comfortable are now concerned, but at the end of the day it's still a bell curve and shouldn't mean a significant increase in scores. Frankly, I can't imagine the colleges care - or have the resources or time to question all this. Can't see a situation where the points go up by more than 1 for each university and every year people deal with the uncertainty of whether their score will be enough, but the online format just gives people something to blame.. (not looking for an argument)
Here's the graph of all the valid sittings for a comparison:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GAMSAT/comments/hkajgn/comparing_percentile_curves_of_sittings_valid_for/0 -
Hopeful GEM wrote: »You're right, there is always a shift in the curve by a little bit
Here's the graph of all the valid sittings for a comparison:
Thanks for sending this, very interesting. it would show for certain percentile scores that they have lowering constantly but yet the scores in Ireland has stayed the same. a score in Sept 2018 which got in the 60th percentile is now in the 40th percentile in 2020 may sitting0 -
Having sat in the September sitting I can certainly sympathise with people complaining about the shift in the scores - my own September percentile is ~3 points off the same March percentile
But the people I feel most bad for are those in the March sitting who payed 500 quid to sit the GAMSAT and got shafted by something as random their choice of exam date due to the lack of standardisation.
Acer have made a mess of it, but as others have said unfortunately the schools/the CAO aren't going to care about this. The best thing a 59/60 scorer can do now might be to put the head down for the September sitting.0 -
True enough. I don’t know how acer can have any credibility after this... oh well roll on August 8th! Busiest Saturday night on boards yet lol0
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True enough. I don’t know how acer can have any credibility after this... oh well roll on August 8th! Busiest Saturday night on boards yet lol0
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Round zero is a Saturday this year? Strange.0
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From comparing the graphs and from the email ACER sent me, I personally don't think the scores will change dramatically ( maybe +1 point). Call me disillusioned but the scores not changing dramatically over the previous five years would make make me believe there is something more statistical than evident to the eye. I reckon we need to wait till August to see. No doubt there will be people disappointed, the people posting scores online (fairplay to you scoring a high score, no doubt it was well earned) but people are less likely to post scores if your disappointed. Not saying anyone who scored high is bragging0
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I'm not looking for an argument either, but you're acting like this is a grave injustice. Even IF there has been grade inflation for some candidates (and there's no proof of that so far) they might still be good students and in four years become good doctors. No one is entitled to a college place, you can try your best but sometimes it's just not your time. This pandemic hasn't been fair to anyone but that's life.
will have to agree to disagree at this stage:P I think both sides of the argument have a voice.....will just have to forget about it till August 8th....0 -
Hopeful GEM wrote: »You're right, there is always a shift in the curve by a little bit
Here's the graph of
If you look at this graphical comparison, you'll notice that the shift observed between March 2019 and Sept 2018 is exactly the same magnitude as that between May 2020 and Sept 2019. Despite this the cutoff remained the same. I'm not sure why people are stressing over the curve. Sept records more candidates than March hence the percentile would appear more clustered. March usually records fewer candidates hence more spread out data hence positive learning percentile0 -
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Hi all, so the focus as been on the individuals who scored well this May/June sitting. Thought I should share my own experience. My first GAMSAT sitting was back in September 2019. I managed a score of 57, which I guess I was happy with seeing as it was my first attempt and wasn’t completely terrible. In fairness, I did do a bit of study and practiced questions, but my methods weren’t great. Didn’t pay enough attention to problem solving and reasoning skills. Spent a lot of time rote learning.
Keep in mind I did have a tough exam day, I guessed about 30 questions in S1, felt uneasy about my essays, and was completely violated by S3. Basically my timing was awful as I didn’t really have it nailed before the exam came around.
My scores were as follows S1 53, S2 76, S3 49.
I want to go to UCC, so I realised I would have to sit again to stand any real chance. I sat the May/June exam. I had followed a more refined and thorough study method this time around. Practiced lots, completed ACER questions multiple times, frequently wrote essays and paid attention to problem solving and reasoning components of S3. In short I was better equipped to sit the GAMSAT than my previous sitting. I also found out from fellow gamsat sitters that I had some sort of a knack for S2 (often compared essays). Was pretty surprised by this as I was never really satisfied with my essays, but then again I did do really well in S2.
Anyways come the May/June sitting, found the exam tough (no surprise here, gamsat isn’t easy). I managed to complete all of S1 with time to spare, felt confident about my essays, had time to edit and rephrase things. S3 was a challenge as always but was confident I answered a higher percentage of questions appropriately, in comparison to my first sitting where I guessed half of the section due to terrible time management and lack of focus on problem solving and reasonings.
May/June dealt me a score of 52.
S1 54, S2 60, S3 47
I’m not the type to look to others for my shortcomings, and since result day I have been reflecting and trying to determine where I have gone wrong. I don’t outright think there was an error in marking but I am baffled by this outcome. After months of much better preparation I have managed to slide by 5 points. Very disappointing and disheartening but I’m pragmatic and looking closely at my weaknesses and trying to turn them to strengths for the next sitting.
After reading around on reddit and seeing posts from people who sat the first part on the same day as me reporting big decreases in S2 Scores, and hearing of inflated scores on the earlier days of S3 has me very suspicious about the whole thing. What can you do though, looking forwards to the next sitting now. Can’t possibly come out with a worse score.
Btw, I have a science background0 -
Infoseeker_J wrote: »Hi all, so the focus as been on the individuals who scored well this May/June sitting. Thought I should share my own experience. My first GAMSAT sitting was back in September 2019. I managed a score of 57, which I guess I was happy with seeing as it was my first attempt and wasn’t completely terrible. In fairness, I did do a bit of study and practiced questions, but my methods weren’t great. Didn’t pay enough attention to problem solving and reasoning skills. Spent a lot of time rote learning.
Keep in mind I did have a tough exam day, I guessed about 30 questions in S1, felt uneasy about my essays, and was completely violated by S3. Basically my timing was awful as I didn’t really have it nailed before the exam came around.
My scores were as follows S1 53, S2 76, S3 49.
I want to go to UCC, so I realised I would have to sit again to stand any real chance. I sat the May/June exam. I had followed a more refined and thorough study method this time around. Practiced lots, completed ACER questions multiple times, frequently wrote essays and paid attention to problem solving and reasoning components of S3. In short I was better equipped to sit the GAMSAT than my previous sitting. I also found out from fellow gamsat sitters that I had some sort of a knack for S2 (often compared essays). Was pretty surprised by this as I was never really satisfied with my essays, but then again I did do really well in S2.
Anyways come the May/June sitting, found the exam tough (no surprise here, gamsat isn’t easy). I managed to complete all of S1 with time to spare, felt confident about my essays, had time to edit and rephrase things. S3 was a challenge as always but was confident I answered a higher percentage of questions appropriately, in comparison to my first sitting where I guessed half of the section due to terrible time management and lack of focus on problem solving and reasonings.
May/June dealt me a score of 52.
S1 54, S2 60, S3 47
I’m not the type to look to others for my shortcomings, and since result day I have been reflecting and trying to determine where I have gone wrong. I don’t outright think there was an error in marking but I am baffled by this outcome. After months of much better preparation I have managed to slide by 5 points. Very disappointing and disheartening but I’m pragmatic and looking closely at my weaknesses and trying to turn them to strengths for the next sitting.
After reading around on reddit and seeing posts from people who sat the first part on the same day as me reporting big decreases in S2 Scores, and hearing of inflated scores on the earlier days of S3 has me very suspicious about the whole thing. What can you do though, looking forwards to the next sitting now. Can’t possibly come out with a worse score.
Btw, I have a science background
That is annoying. Tbh i think colleges will look into the discrepancies, regardless of what people think here. It is unethical how things have gone on, even though Im happy with my score, I can understand how annoying it is. Looking at it impartially and having discussed it with people not even applying, they agreed that colleges will have to look into it, its too unethical not to, given all the stories on Reddit. Hopefully there can be a fair outcome for everyone....0 -
Infoseeker_J wrote: »Hi all, so the focus as been on the individuals who scored well this May/June sitting. Thought I should share my own experience. My first GAMSAT sitting was back in September 2019. I managed a score of 57, which I guess I was happy with seeing as it was my first attempt and wasn’t completely terrible. In fairness, I did do a bit of study and practiced questions, but my methods weren’t great. Didn’t pay enough attention to problem solving and reasoning skills. Spent a lot of time rote learning.
Keep in mind I did have a tough exam day, I guessed about 30 questions in S1, felt uneasy about my essays, and was completely violated by S3. Basically my timing was awful as I didn’t really have it nailed before the exam came around.
My scores were as follows S1 53, S2 76, S3 49.
I want to go to UCC, so I realised I would have to sit again to stand any real chance. I sat the May/June exam. I had followed a more refined and thorough study method this time around. Practiced lots, completed ACER questions multiple times, frequently wrote essays and paid attention to problem solving and reasoning components of S3. In short I was better equipped to sit the GAMSAT than my previous sitting. I also found out from fellow gamsat sitters that I had some sort of a knack for S2 (often compared essays). Was pretty surprised by this as I was never really satisfied with my essays, but then again I did do really well in S2.
Anyways come the May/June sitting, found the exam tough (no surprise here, gamsat isn’t easy). I managed to complete all of S1 with time to spare, felt confident about my essays, had time to edit and rephrase things. S3 was a challenge as always but was confident I answered a higher percentage of questions appropriately, in comparison to my first sitting where I guessed half of the section due to terrible time management and lack of focus on problem solving and reasonings.
May/June dealt me a score of 52.
S1 54, S2 60, S3 47
I’m not the type to look to others for my shortcomings, and since result day I have been reflecting and trying to determine where I have gone wrong. I don’t outright think there was an error in marking but I am baffled by this outcome. After months of much better preparation I have managed to slide by 5 points. Very disappointing and disheartening but I’m pragmatic and looking closely at my weaknesses and trying to turn them to strengths for the next sitting.
After reading around on reddit and seeing posts from people who sat the first part on the same day as me reporting big decreases in S2 Scores, and hearing of inflated scores on the earlier days of S3 has me very suspicious about the whole thing. What can you do though, looking forwards to the next sitting now. Can’t possibly come out with a worse score.
Btw, I have a science background
Sorry to hear how scores worked out for you this time around. Considering the extra preparation and experience you had from sitting the exam before, it would make you wonder how someone’s S2 score could drop by 16 points. ACER have really made a mess of this.
Fingers crossed that the cut-off will work in your favour come August and your previous score will be enough!0 -
Sorry to hear how scores worked out for you this time around. Considering the extra preparation and experience you had from sitting the exam before, it would make you wonder how someone’s S2 score could drop by 16 points. ACER have really made a mess of this.
Fingers crossed that the cut-off will work in your favour come August and your previous score will be enough!
Agreed. The whole thing is so mentally draining for everyone. It feels surreal tbh, i dont know would cancelling and leaving it till September and delaying college starting dates been a lot better for peoples mental health, which at the end of the day is being affected the most in all this and is most important.0 -
I also went to GEM open day at RCSI what I heard was that unless you score 63 or more you can not be certain of entry. Of the applicants last year who scored 59 only a tiny few got a place (allocated via lottery) so really, only those on 60 got in. It's my 1st choice and I'm on 59 so not overly hopeful...I went to the RCSI open day a few months back and the admissions woman told us if we got a competitive score on the GAMSAT (i.e. 59 or more) we were almost guaranteed a place and to go to the BOI on College Green (specifically that one for RCSI) and have a chat with the loan officer there. Basically, they take your details and give you the forms/documentation to bring when you're officially applying for the loan so it's quick and easy. With UCD I think it's BOI as well but you go to the branch on their campus.0 -
Hopeful GEM wrote: »You're right, there is always a shift in the curve by a little bit
Here's the graph of all the valid sittings for a comparison:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GAMSAT/comments/hkajgn/comparing_percentile_curves_of_sittings_valid_for/
While the graph shows a gradual shift to the right, it is worth noting that the March 2017 curve actually can be plotted between to the right of the 2018 one and yet the cut off was lower in 2017 than in 2018. Therefor we can't assume that points will rise this time either. I suspect that the Irish context is quite different to the global one featured in these graphs. It would probably be more telling to know whether GEM applications are up or down. I presume that the numbers applying in 2017 must have dipped...0 -
For anyone who has outstanding issues, I register posted a doc on Monday (it was a second copy) and it has now been scanned so CAO are back working.0
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Hi there,
Just want to check if anyone else has had to send print versions of their transcripts with a email confirming their results. Just wanted to make sure I’m not the only one as at the moment trinity college is not providing hard copies and I’m terrified the printed version won’t be accepted0 -
taxignorant wrote: »It occurred to me too that if the course was fully subsidized by the state that smarter candidates would get my place, but equally if I was richer I could have paid for someone to mind my kids while I studied. I couldn't apply for something like this without having saved for years and having a supportive partner. I bet there are a bunch of amazing candidates who cant consider applying for financial reasons.
I'm not sure I wouldn't be really annoyed if I was in that person's position but equally if you have a borderline score the best insurance is to do the resits and take best score. Gradmed cut offs, like mortgage interest rates and the stock market can rise and fall.
If there is a genuine and valid argument people want to put forward to the admissions of Irish colleges I am sure they will try to adjust the process somehow to ensure fairness. If not the only thing is to try again.
I imagine its the CAO you would need to put complaints towards - not the individual colleges. As someone mentioned earlier, you must be adaptable in life. If the entrance exam scores stress people out to this extent, then how on earth will people cope throughout their whole career - where you are continuously examined and ranked, and your chosen speciality etc depends on achieved scores. Crying that the scoring is unfair wont help you now, or in the future and will just lead to a very stressed out future you.0 -
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I imagine its the CAO you would need to put complaints towards - not the individual colleges. As someone mentioned earlier, you must be adaptable in life. If the entrance exam scores stress people out to this extent, then how on earth will people cope throughout their whole career - where you are continuously examined and ranked, and your chosen speciality etc depends on achieved scores. Crying that the scoring is unfair wont help you now, or in the future and will just lead to a very stressed out future you.
thats just silly tbh. If scores spiked in the exam hall, of course none of this chat would be happening.0
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