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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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    #5012
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    So you didn't use the glib expression "they're not made of sugar, they won't melt"?

    It’s a very common saying where I am, as in: “I don’t want to cycle when it’s drizzling. Why, are you made of sugar? You won’t melt :pac:”.I’m sorry if you’re offended by it.
    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Why didn't you mention air quality when you mentioned it first time around, I've read back over the conversation and you don't mention it once.

    I was responding directly to another posters concern about fresh air.
    Smacruairi wrote: »
    You never explained how everyone going for a walk was meant to sort spacing issues that still exist, nor how learning was meant to actually take place when everyone is leaving the building every 15 mins, nor how it was meant to be supervised properly.

    How is everyone leaving the building every 15 minutes? How many staff members per class of 25? Not just teachers, staff members.
    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Exasperated, yeah, you are completely right. Maybe the Dutch Air is different..

    Unnecessary.


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    #5013
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    By the way, are you a teacher or do you have children in a classroom right now?...

    I’m a parent of 2. One at school, one at crèche. They’ve been back since May, older one started school in October. The crèche and school fall under the same board, I’ve been a board member for just over a year now. There is a lot of hand washing etc but it’s amazing to see how normal all of this is to them. The staff have been brilliant, can’t fault them. No one has got COVID-19, but there have been absences due to testing etc. I’m glad I have an insight, but I’ve spoken to other parents who don’t and they’re satisfied with the care and education their children have been receiving.
    Stateofyou wrote: »
    BTW, my kids school is in a rural area and the two roads on either side is a fairly busy road on one and a national road on the other. No footpaths. What now?

    Is there a yard?


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    #5014
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    Parents complaining about kids going outside for break when it is drizzling.

    You'd prefer for them to be in the same room for 5 hours?

    What parents are complaining about children going out for a break?

    They already do get out twice a day most days.


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    #5015
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Lillyfae wrote: »


    Is there a yard?

    Yes, but it's very small.


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    #5016
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Lillyfae wrote: »


    I was responding directly to another posters concern about fresh air.

    IN the classroom though, yes? Opening windows and doors are the best it will get, but a walk isn't going to do anything for the air in the classroom which is the point...


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    #5017
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Why, are you made of sugar? You won’t melt :pac:”.I’m sorry if you’re offended by it.



    I was responding directly to another posters concern about fresh air.



    How is everyone leaving the building every 15 minutes? How many staff members per class of 25? Not just teachers, staff members.



    Unnecessary.

    I'm not offended, I'm pointing out your disdain comes through loud and clear in your Dutch "expression". You didn't mean for a walk, no matter how much you try to change the narrative, you were talking about hosting full classes all day out doors for periods, that was the context of the conversation as I pointed out 3 times for you. Sorry if you're offended that I point out that your memory is terrible or that you can't keep your false narrative in order.

    How many staff? I wouldn't know for the averages, cleaners secretaries security etc, I'm sure you could look it up if you cared. Why, do you want the entire school community to go out for this fabled walk that you are trying to invent instead of actual teaching and learning taking place?

    Almost like someone who isn't trained in teaching, or running a school, shouldn't be commenting on matters they don't seem to comprehend. Your suggestion would very much get a "yet to meet expectations" in a report.


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    #5018
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Almost like someone who isn't trained in teaching, or running a school, shouldn't be commenting on matters they don't seem to comprehend. Your suggestion would very much get a "yet to meet expectations" in a report.

    So if you’re not a teacher, you shouldn’t be commenting here? I wasn’t aware that I had to show my ASTI membership card on the way in.

    I’m actually not a child, so patronizing me is a bit pointless. I’d save it for the children who will in turn “resent” their school days in the future.


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    #5019
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    So if you’re not a teacher, you shouldn’t be commenting here? I wasn’t aware that I had to show my ASTI membership card on the way in.

    I’m actually not a child, so patronizing me is a bit pointless. I’d save it for the children who will in turn “resent” their school days in the future.

    You can comment as a non teacher, there have been some great non teacher comments. You however suggested classes in the rain, tried to lie your way out of your glib remark, and are now resorting to comments suggesting I'm offended, or patronising which is demonstrably untrue.

    The premise of the previous few pages was that some people are resentful of school staff, you claimed you weren't, I'm sure this interaction and the previous quotes from you show to everyone your attitude and your disposition. Pointing that out isnt patronising, it's just a bitter pill to swallow for you.


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    #5020
    Thats me
    Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    Parents complaining about kids going outside for break when it is drizzling.

    You'd prefer for them to be in the same room for 5 hours?


    I'd prefer them to be with parents all this time, are parents OK with this?


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    #5021
    hesaidshesaid
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭hesaidshesaid


    Just an observation, there is a ridiculous amount of unnecessary bickering on this thread.

    The kind of bickering that children, in the very schools we are discussing, would not stoop to.

    In other news we had a covid inspection today. Passed with flying colours, we were told that there were 'no recommendations to be made.' Meanwhile a whole class and relevant teachers are close contacts and out for two weeks. Beginning to feel as though this is just the way it will be for another year or so.


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    #5022
    hesaidshesaid
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭hesaidshesaid


    hesaidshesaid wrote: »
    Just to clarify the debate re. whether close contacts in schools are being tested. Here is a case where they are not. Primary school, no masks on children. All staff wearing masks, all windows open, staff-room off limits.

    Symptoms were identified and a child was sent for a test last Wednesday. Results were received Friday evening. Child tested positive.

    Numerous attempts were made by the school to contact Public Health over the weekend. No answer on any phone line. As an aside, principals are expected to be contactable on their personal mobiles by Public Health at any time.

    Finally got through this morning. Risk assessment was carried out by Public Health and a class, its teacher and relevant SNAs sent home as they were 'close contacts' - Public Health's term. They have all been told to 'restrict their movements'.

    No-one has been sent for a test. Not one.

    If any of the other parents decide to contact their GP and request a test for their child, and they test positive, they will now be classified as 'private home transmission'. If any of the parents test positive, it will have the same outcome.

    None of the siblings in other classes were told by Public Health to stay at home. So if any of the kids are asymptomatic and pass it on to siblings, the sibling may well bring it back into the school.

    This is the experience of one school. It is unlikely to be the only one.

    UPDATE

    There must have been a change of heart in Public Health as all kids in class and relevant teachers were called for testing the following day. None of the adults have tested positive, we won't know about the kids unless the parents let us know. General consensus among staff is that the wide open windows and doors are what is saving us. I can't explain how cold it is though. Parents, I really recommend thermals, particularly polo neck thermal vests, under your child's uniform. Snoods around the neck are great, less bulky than a scarf. And please please make your child wear a coat, we still have loads of kids coming in without them.


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    #5023
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    I am completely honest in my opinion of teachers/the teaching profession. ...... It wouldn't be a profession I have huge amount of respect for (in Ireland).
    No **** Sherlock. I'm shocked so I am.


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    #5024
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,656 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    [quote=raindMost tests and cases come from community referrals.[/quote]
    Yeah this one a what we were told but I know parents that are adamant that the only way it git in their homes was from school but they were told it was community transmission even though kids in one of the classes if one of their kids had it before anybody in their home.
    Explain that one. Both parents working from home, ultra careful.


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    #5025
    KerryConnor
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭KerryConnor


    UK are shutting schools a day early too so 17th will be final day of school for the kids.
    It makes sense as majority of symptoms appear within 5/6 days. But it had to turn into a "winging teachers" issue in ireland for some reason and get slapped down by DES

    That was what my post was about resentment towards teachers a few pages back. I don't really care on one hand, but its just a shame because it colours issues around education at the moment. I wasn't really talking just about this thread but you only need to turn on the radio to hear it. My own brother practically spits when teachers come up in conversation. I genuinely don't get it. The teachers I know are all pretty nice people who are by and large really interested in their jobs.
    And the funny thing is my brother would run screaming from a classroom room he wouldn't be able to stand managing kids at all.
    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I see Merkel has come out publicly to say that schools in Germany should be shutting from the 16th inorder to create a gap so that visits to grandparents can happen with some modicum of safety for them.

    When it was floated here in this country about binning the 21st and 22nd, the abuse was horrendous.


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    #5026
    Darwin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭Darwin


    KerryConnor wrote: »
    UK are shutting schools a day early too so 17th will be final day of school for the kids.
    It makes sense as majority of symptoms appear within 5/6 days. But it had to turn into a "winging teachers" issue in ireland for some reason and get slapped down by DES

    That was what my post was about resentment towards teachers a few pages back. I don't really care on one hand, but its just a shame because it colours issues around education at the moment. I wasn't really talking just about this thread but you only need to turn on the radio to hear it. My own brother practically spits when teachers come up in conversation. I genuinely don't get it. The teachers I know are all pretty nice people who are by and large really interested in their jobs.
    And the funny thing is my brother would run screaming from a classroom room he wouldn't be able to stand managing kids at all.

    As someone posted in this thread a few weeks back, how could people possibly enjoy Christmas knowing schools were shut an extra day. It really made me laugh out loud but just about sums up the sentiment amongst many here.


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    #5027
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Unlike you I don't think people are stupid in general. If they decide they want visitors over it will be because they are prepared to take the risk not because they are unaware of risk.


    People are people. They arent what you want them to be.


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    #5028
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Symptoms were identified and a child was sent for a test last Wednesday. Results were received Friday evening. Child tested positive.

    Numerous attempts were made by the school to contact Public Health over the weekend. No answer on any phone line. As an aside, principals are expected to be contactable on their personal mobiles by Public Health at any time.

    Finally got through this morning. Risk assessment was carried out by Public Health and a class, its teacher and relevant SNAs sent home as they were 'close contacts' - Public Health's term. They have all been told to 'restrict their movements'.

    No-one has been sent for a test. Not one.

    If any of the other parents decide to contact their GP and request a test for their child, and they test positive, they will now be classified as 'private home transmission'. If any of the parents test positive, it will have the same outcome.

    None of the siblings in other classes were told by Public Health to stay at home. So if any of the kids are asymptomatic and pass it on to siblings, the sibling may well bring it back into the school.

    This is the experience of one school. It is unlikely to be the only one.
    hesaidshesaid wrote: »
    UPDATE

    There must have been a change of heart in Public Health as all kids in class and relevant teachers were called for testing the following day. None of the adults have tested positive, we won't know about the kids unless the parents let us know. General consensus among staff is that the wide open windows and doors are what is saving us. I can't explain how cold it is though. Parents, I really recommend thermals, particularly polo neck thermal vests, under your child's uniform. Snoods around the neck are great, less bulky than a scarf. And please please make your child wear a coat, we still have loads of kids coming in without them.

    This. Stories like this going on is why I take any "data" as an attempt to paint some picture with a large pinch of salt.


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    #5029
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I see Merkel has come out publicly to say that schools in Germany should be shutting from the 16th inorder to create a gap so that visits to grandparents can happen with some modicum of safety for them.

    When it was floated here in this country about binning the 21st and 22nd, the abuse was horrendous.

    Abuse?


    Is everything in Germany so much better than Ireland that even through their current case level is 4x ours we believe we should be currently doing the exact same thing? When we were at 300 cases per hundred thousand kids were not supposed to visit their grandparents. Now we are at 75 and its a different assessment.

    By the way closing a few days earlier would not have been something I was against in principle, if only to ease anxieties some may have about visiting grandparents


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    #5030
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Boggles wrote: »
    The system was under pressure for a lot longer than 3 days and most certainly contributed to the peak we had in October which in turn leads to restrictions.

    That's not my opinion, that's what public health officials tasked with tracing was sounding the alarm over weeks before.


    I remember in September having to go for a test.

    Rang the out of hours doc Friday.
    Yes you both need to go for a test.
    Sunday, rang and said we have heard nothing the person who answered said you will hear by tomorrow.
    Rang the HSE helpline on Monday and they said you are in the system if the doc put you in. I cant look it up.
    Rang my own doc straight after that on Monday and secretary said he will ring you tomorrow.
    Tuesday. My doc rang me and talked to us both then referred us for a test.
    30 mins later I got a text saying my test time was Wednesday.
    Wednesday we went down to the test center and it looked like a concentration camp. We were feeling better at that point.
    We queued up and when we got in the main door they had my name on the list but not my partners. So she didnt get tested that day. She ended up never getting tested actually.

    On Friday night I got a text saying covid not detected.


    That was a whole week because the whole thing was a shambles from start to finish.


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    #5031
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    You can comment as a non teacher, there have been some great non teacher comments. You however suggested classes in the rain, tried to lie your way out of your glib remark, and are now resorting to comments suggesting I'm offended, or patronising which is demonstrably untrue.

    The premise of the previous few pages was that some people are resentful of school staff, you claimed you weren't, I'm sure this interaction and the previous quotes from you show to everyone your attitude and your disposition. Pointing that out isnt patronising, it's just a bitter pill to swallow for you.


    JMO.

    Ive been following this thread for a while.
    If I was to pick out the chief teacher hater in the whole thread, not just the last few pages. I would pick the person you are replying to.
    I have often wondered what happened to them in school.
    I hated school myself as a kid, but I dont project any of it on teachers as an adult. But I have a lot of friends who do. I find it very hard to understand.


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    #5032
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Abuse?


    Is everything in Germany so much better than Ireland that even through their current case level is 4x ours we believe we should be currently doing the exact same thing? When we were at 300 cases per hundred thousand kids were not supposed to visit their grandparents. Now we are at 75 and its a different assessment.

    By the way closing a few days earlier would not have been something I was against in principle, if only to ease anxieties some may have about visiting grandparents

    Yeah, abuse-all over social media and heard it on the radio too.

    We don't have to be as bad as Germany or any other country to decide to take actions that are in our own best interests. We should be proactive rather than reactive. And maybe Germany's number's are higher partly because their testing system is more robust and efficient. Maybe their school systems don't have ridiculous rules about close contacts, and a half-ar$ed process to handle them.


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    #5033
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Yeah this one a what we were told but I know parents that are adamant that the only way it git in their homes was from school but they were told it was community transmission even though kids in one of the classes if one of their kids had it before anybody in their home.
    Explain that one. Both parents working from home, ultra careful.

    Who said zero cases came from schools? No one I know of. Community transmission is where the source cannot be identified. School is part of community. If you cannot link the chain of transmission its community

    Who tested positive first in your example?


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    #5034
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    JMO.

    Ive been following this thread for a while.
    If I was to pick out the chief teacher hater in the whole thread, not just the last few pages. I would pick the person you are replying to.
    I have often wondered what happened to them in school.
    I hated school myself as a kid, but I dont project any of it on teachers as an adult. But I have a lot of friends who do. I find it very hard to understand.

    I had a wonderful time at school. I chose my children's primary school because it reminded me so much of my own as a child. That was and to the best of my knowledge still is a very well run school, with the children's interests at heart. Many of my classmates sent their own children there for that very reason, I would have done the same if I could have.

    I think the problem in this thread is that some of the teachers posting are having a very hard time trying to see where other people are coming from. They're also talking out of both sides of their mouths sometimes. For example, they emphasized that the union rep who suggested that teachers were stressed and should have 2 extra days off had not consulted union members, but now are asking why it's such a bad idea. We're all stressed, it's just extra, unplanned time off will cause logistical problems for a large section of society and in light of that, it's not a suggestion that was welcome. It's the same with the "we don't want the schools closed" argument. "We don't want them closed, but here's why they should be closed"


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    #5035
    the kelt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    KerryConnor wrote: »
    UK are shutting schools a day early too so 17th will be final day of school for the kids.
    It makes sense as majority of symptoms appear within 5/6 days. But it had to turn into a "winging teachers" issue in ireland for some reason and get slapped down by DES

    That was what my post was about resentment towards teachers a few pages back. I don't really care on one hand, but its just a shame because it colours issues around education at the moment. I wasn't really talking just about this thread but you only need to turn on the radio to hear it. My own brother practically spits when teachers come up in conversation. I genuinely don't get it. The teachers I know are all pretty nice people who are by and large really interested in their jobs.
    And the funny thing is my brother would run screaming from a classroom room he wouldn't be able to stand managing kids at all.

    Yep the resentment is bizarre and the more people try to explain it isn’t, the more clearer it becomes it really is.

    That resentment is clouding people’s judgement, in the fight against the virus for example overall taking extra time off and extending school holidays even for only a few days like we have seen elsewhere makes sense.

    Mention it here and you get the resentment oozing out with deflectory commentary about the unions etc etc.

    Certain measures to combat the virus are only good it seems if teachers don’t benefit from them.


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    #5036
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    This. Stories like this going on is why I take any "data" as an attempt to paint some picture with a large pinch of salt.
    None of the siblings in other classes were told by Public Health to stay at home. So if any of the kids are asymptomatic and pass it on to siblings, the sibling may well bring it back into the school.

    That is absolutely standard in contact tracing in any setting - they are not primary contacts. The kids in the class with the index case will have been tested by the time the siblings would have become infectious if they contacted it in school.


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    #5037
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Yeah, abuse-all over social media and heard it on the radio too.

    We don't have to be as bad as Germany or any other country to decide to take actions that are in our own best interests. We should be proactive rather than reactive. And maybe Germany's number's are higher partly because their testing system is more robust and efficient. Maybe their school systems don't have ridiculous rules about close contacts, and a half-ar$ed process to handle them.

    We were proactive, that's why we are at 75 cases per 100k and Germany are at 300. Germany are also averaging 400 deaths per day compared to 4 here - adjusted for population they have 5x our current death rate. While a poor testing system may miss cases, it wont miss deaths


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    #5038
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    JMO.

    Ive been following this thread for a while.
    If I was to pick out the chief teacher hater in the whole thread, not just the last few pages. I would pick the person you are replying to.
    I have often wondered what happened to them in school.
    I hated school myself as a kid, but I dont project any of it on teachers as an adult. But I have a lot of friends who do. I find it very hard to understand.

    If there is one thing I can't bear since I've been following this thread, it is posters discussing other posters among themselves. It is straight out of the mean girls school yard bullying rulebook and it is really uncomfortable to watch going on. I wish people would address posters directly rather than this ugly, imo, behaviour.


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    #5039
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,652 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Deleted User wrote: »
    By the way closing a few days earlier would not have been something I was against in principle, if only to ease anxieties some may have about visiting grandparents

    Meh, never mind anxieties or teacher fatigue, they will struggle on. I think at this stage there isn't a single teacher out there that knows they are treated as non essential workers in what has been deemed the most essential service.

    It was always a sound idea to potentially help prevent the spread of the disease into the vulnerable population.

    That fact never changed, it just got lost in the hatred.


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    #5040
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    JMO.

    Ive been following this thread for a while.
    If I was to pick out the chief teacher hater in the whole thread, not just the last few pages. I would pick the person you are replying to.
    I have often wondered what happened to them in school.
    I hated school myself as a kid, but I dont project any of it on teachers as an adult. But I have a lot of friends who do. I find it very hard to understand.

    What we do not understand, we fear.
    What we fear, we judge as evil.


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    #5041
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Chatting to my neighbour yesterday who is a secondary teacher. They were saying their school had plenty of contact from parents yesterday asking why weren't they closing early like the schools in Germany(must have heard about it in the media yesterday). They were told that it had been suggested and dismissed by the minister for education.

    I'm laughing away to myself here that a few weeks ago when it was suggested it was fairly quickly ruled out by some in here on the grounds of what about the kids education (nothing of any substance will be done on those days anyway) and also about how it wouldn't be fair on parents who have to work(fully understand that point). What I'm really laughing at is how it can be suggested by other countries and suddenly it's a great idea and can be implemented and solutions found so that it can happen. Silly Irish people being proactive and having ideas.


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