Schools closed until February? (part 3)

HerrKuehn

the kelt wrote: »

It begs the question if schools are so safe with 30 odd people in a room for hours every day, no masks, sitting close together, talking, laughing etc and the government are keen by whatever means to ensure that scenario is seen as being safe why then are other areas of the economy restricted?

30 unmasked people sitting in a room close together, talking socialising whilst sitting at the same table, safe, not an issue. Unless theyre adults!

Hmmm

Something isnt adding up here??

I don't think anyone is saying "it isn't an issue", the small risk is acceptable given the benefit. I am sure you know that already though. I also know a lot of the more risk averse teachers would have preferred the "remote learning"/sending on a bit of work, but it was tried and failed before the summer.

JimmyVik

the kelt wrote: »

It begs the question if schools are so safe with 30 odd people in a room for hours every day, no masks, sitting close together, talking, laughing etc and the government are keen by whatever means to ensure that scenario is seen as being safe why then are other areas of the economy restricted?

30 unmasked people sitting in a room close together, talking socialising whilst sitting at the same table, safe, not an issue. Unless theyre adults!

Hmmm

Something isnt adding up here??

I know lots of people who cant square that circle and have decided that they have more chance of catching it off their kids when they come home from school than off anyone else anywhere, so restrictions be damned.

Stateofyou

HerrKuehn wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying "it isn't an issue", the small risk is acceptable given the benefit. I am sure you know that already though. I also know a lot of the more risk averse teachers would have preferred the "remote learning"/sending on a bit of work, but it was tried and failed before the summer.

Is the remote learning you're referring to where schools/teachers had very little notice to close (was it 24 hours or less?), most with no online platforms in place (or training) or equipment for anyone, at the start of a scary, never seen in this lifetime, global pandemic?

You don't set the bar very high do you.

HerrKuehn

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know lots of people who cant square that circle and have decided that they have more chance of catching it off their kids when they come home from school than off anyone else anywhere, so restrictions be damned.

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing I suppose. Thankfully a lot of people don't have that opinion or we would be in a worse situation than now.

HerrKuehn

Stateofyou wrote: »

Is the remote learning you're referring to where schools/teachers had very little notice to close (was it 24 hours or less?), most with no online platforms in place (or training) or equipment for anyone, at the start of a scary, never seen in this lifetime, global pandemic?

You don't set the bar very high do you.

It has been acknowledged on this thread (by teachers) that some teachers didn't do a lot, one reason given was there was great weather at the time. This is one of the reasons why it wasn't considered as an option.

JimmyVik

HerrKuehn wrote: »

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing I suppose. Thankfully a lot of people don't have that opinion or we would be in a worse situation than now.

Wait for Christmas week. "Ah sure they are children, they cant spread it. Its fine to bring them visiting"
Could have been easily avoided by dealing with the situation in a transparent manner and explaining to people whats going on instead of obscuring the info. That makes people suspicious of your motives.

Stateofyou

HerrKuehn wrote: »

It has been acknowledged on this thread (by teachers) that some teachers didn't do a lot, one reason given was there was great weather at the time. This is one of the reasons why it wasn't considered as an option.

I think it's ridiculous to state that remote learning was "tried and failed before the summer" for one due to real circumstances and two, if you're now going to base your reasoning by what posters of this thread on boards did or didn't do.

Absolutely no one in a decision making position of authority has ever tried and failed to implement remote learning in this country, nor has it ever been considered to be an option and then dismissed.

If you have a link to back up that statement I would be very interested indeed to see it.

HerrKuehn

Stateofyou wrote: »

I think it's ridiculous to state that remote learning was "tried and failed before the summer" for one due to real circumstances and two, if you're now going to base your reasoning by what posters of this thread on boards did or didn't do.

Absolutely no one in a decision making position of authority has ever tried and failed to implement remote learning in this country, nor has it ever been considered to be an option and then dismissed.

If you have a link to back up that statement I would be very interested indeed to see it.

There was very little demand for remote learning. The only people I have heard looking for it are a few posters on here. We have seen what it would be like already. We have also been through this loads of times. So far it hasn't been needed and we are already almost at xmas.

meeeeh

JimmyVik wrote: »

Wait for Christmas week. "Ah sure they are children, they cant spread it. Its fine to bring them visiting"
Could have been easily avoided by dealing with the situation in a transparent manner and explaining to people whats going on instead of obscuring the info. That makes people suspicious of your motives.

Unlike you I don't think people are stupid in general. If they decide they want visitors over it will be because they are prepared to take the risk not because they are unaware of risk.

KerryConnor

Would be curious to know why people debating "against teachers" on this thread (as the resentment towards teachers is clear).. feel so hostile to teaching profession. It's something I've thought about a bit lately and not sure why so many people resent teachers so much. Is it the holidays? A bad memory of a teacher from their own childhood?
There doesn't seem to be the same teacher bashing in other countries although maybe I'm just not tuned into it.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

What would be really impressive is if you actually typed that with a straight face.

Also, what I actually said, was our testing/tracing system collapsed.

And yet here we are now with the lowest case level in all of Europe. Dont we live in just the worst country

Stateofyou

HerrKuehn wrote: »

There was very little demand for remote learning. The only people I have heard looking for it are a few posters on here. We have seen what it would be like already. We have also been through this loads of times. So far it hasn't been needed and we are already almost at xmas.

On the contrary, there was huge demand for it from what I recall hearing on radio, social media, and also evidenced by recent directive from the DES for schools to have it in place (note-no national standard here).

Nevertheless, that is not the point so why are you sidetracking here.

You claimed it wasn't considered because of the good weather. By whom?

You also claimed remote learning was tried and failed before the summer, but that wasn't exactly true either.

We have been through what exactly, "loads of times."

It hasn't been needed? By you? What a nonsense statement to make, obviously from a place of privilege. If you or your close family were at high risk, if you were immunocompromised you'd be singing a very different tune.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet here we are now with the lowest case level in all of Europe. Dont we live in just the worst country

What does that have to do with the fact that testing and tracing system effectively collapsed at a time when they couldn't cope and case numbers were much higher in the lead up to a national lockdown. What has "here we are now" got to do with what you quoted me as saying. Bizarre.

KerryConnor

KerryConnor wrote: »

Would be curious to know why people debating "against teachers" on this thread (as the resentment towards teachers is clear).. feel so hostile to teaching profession. It's something I've thought about a bit lately and not sure why so many people resent teachers so much. Is it the holidays? A bad memory of a teacher from their own childhood?
There doesn't seem to be the same teacher bashing in other countries although maybe I'm just not tuned into it.

Some may be debating against teachers, most are debating against the contention that the schools are hotbeds of the virus and causing major issues in the country, and don't care if they are teachers, plumbers or rocket scientists making the argument

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

What does that have to do with the fact that testing and tracing system effectively collapsed at a time when they couldn't cope and case numbers were much higher in the lead up to a national lockdown.

What national lockdown?

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

What national lockdown?

The highest Level 5 @ 6 weeks, nationally ring any bells? Good jaysus, this thread is hard work.

the kelt

KerryConnor wrote: »

Would be curious to know why people debating "against teachers" on this thread (as the resentment towards teachers is clear).. feel so hostile to teaching profession. It's something I've thought about a bit lately and not sure why so many people resent teachers so much. Is it the holidays? A bad memory of a teacher from their own childhood?
There doesn't seem to be the same teacher bashing in other countries although maybe I'm just not tuned into it.

I find that interesting also, cant understand it myself. Im not a teacher myself.

Just dont understand it

HerrKuehn

Stateofyou wrote: »

Schools suddenly closed and with no notice. Though there are some teachers/schools who could have dug in a bit harder, I remember many parents being home and in shock too. It was very, very stressful financially and mentally for people and children too. There was a big focus at the start of people looking after themselves and their families and spending quality time together and enjoying the shockingly good weather we were having then.

This time, schools are prepared and ready to go online if needed. Teachers at our school have a plan in place and have trained themselves and the students on how to use the online software. If schools closed again, it would in no way compare to the first time in March.

Not all schools, Staff and students are coming through unscathed though. There been a lot of positive tests, stress and chaos in many schools. Many families with high risk family members are living with extreme stress. All depends on who you talk to. I agree with you that the risky environment can and should be improved upon.

It was you Stateofyou talking about the good weather originally, this is what I was referring to above.

HerrKuehn

KerryConnor wrote: »

Would be curious to know why people debating "against teachers" on this thread (as the resentment towards teachers is clear).. feel so hostile to teaching profession. It's something I've thought about a bit lately and not sure why so many people resent teachers so much. Is it the holidays? A bad memory of a teacher from their own childhood?
There doesn't seem to be the same teacher bashing in other countries although maybe I'm just not tuned into it.

Teachers don't do themselves a lot of favours with some of the stuff their unions come out with. TUI recently with the teacher fatigue comment, completely tone deaf. I would say this is where the general lack of respect for the profession comes from. I don't resent or dislike teachers, on the contrary I find their carry on very entertaining.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

The highest Level 5 @ 6 weeks, nationally ring any bells? Good jaysus, this thread is hard work.

You call that a lockdown. What we had in April would barely be classed as a lockdown relative to the likes of Spain and France, never mind what we had for the past 6 weeks?

Lillyfae

KerryConnor wrote: »

Would be curious to know why people debating "against teachers" on this thread (as the resentment towards teachers is clear).. feel so hostile to teaching profession. It's something I've thought about a bit lately and not sure why so many people resent teachers so much. Is it the holidays? A bad memory of a teacher from their own childhood?
There doesn't seem to be the same teacher bashing in other countries although maybe I'm just not tuned into it.

This old chestnut. Disagreeing with an individual or individuals does not equate to teacher bashing/ resentment/ bad memories of school. It's like the Godwin's Law of this thread.

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

What does that have to do with the fact that testing and tracing system effectively collapsed at a time when they couldn't cope and case numbers were much higher in the lead up to a national lockdown. What has "here we are now" got to do with what you quoted me as saying. Bizarre.

3000 or so people were not contact traced, that is not testing/tracing collapse. I also don't know how you came to conclusion situation didn't improve. But why actually consider your reply if you can catastrophise the situation to make it worse than it is.

Stateofyou

HerrKuehn wrote: »

It was you Stateofyou talking about the good weather originally, this is what I was referring to above.

Yes, good job you dug up a personal opinion. I did not ever state it wasn't considered by anyone in any position of authority here due to the good weather. It wasn't possible for schools to roll out a remote learning plan with no time or funding or resources to prepare, especially as people were in shock then and just trying to figure s-t out.

You stated that remote learning here was tried and failed earlier this summer, so again, don't know why you're derailing from the point here. Maybe because you can't back that up.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

3000 or so people were not contact traced, that is not testing/tracing collapse.

They were asked to do their own contact tracing, the system became overwhelmed. It's a fact.

Not everything has to be an argument.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

They were asked to do their own contact tracing, the system became overwhelmed. It's a fact.

Not everything has to be an argument.

For 3 days. It didn't cause a national lockdown. The 3 months steady increase prior to that caused the increased level of restrictions

meeeeh

KerryConnor wrote: »

Would be curious to know why people debating "against teachers" on this thread (as the resentment towards teachers is clear).. feel so hostile to teaching profession. It's something I've thought about a bit lately and not sure why so many people resent teachers so much. Is it the holidays? A bad memory of a teacher from their own childhood?
There doesn't seem to be the same teacher bashing in other countries although maybe I'm just not tuned into it.

Did it occur to you that it's not bias against teachers but that some of us have very little understanding why our kids should be kept out of schools despite the system working fine. Most teachers have no desire to close schools but there are those in teaching unions and elsewhere who are looking to profit from the pandemic.

I will ignore all other overemotional exaggerations in the post.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

You call that a lockdown. What we had in April would barely be classed as a lockdown relative to the likes of Spain and France, never mind what we had for the past 6 weeks?

Call it what you want, level 5, highest level of restrictions in the government planning scope. That's not the point though, is it.

The point was in all this, you said that the testing (+ tracing) system as I referred to it as didn't collapse when that is a false statement.

meeeeh wrote: »

3000 or so people were not contact traced, that is not testing/tracing collapse. I also don't know how you came to conclusion situation didn't improve. But why actually consider your reply if you can catastrophise the situation to make it worse than it is.

The media and the highest members of this government referred to it as a collapse. People were made to do their own tracing. I came to the conclusion it didn't improve because those people that were missed were just written off when a "reset" was declared, a phone line for schools was implemented apparently, but yet principals and school parents are still being let down without an efficient enough tracing system. And a great many people are not happy with the working definition of a close contact in the schools and take testing via gps or privately on their own. I'm not catstrophising, you're dismissing.

the kelt

Lillyfae wrote: »

This old chestnut. Disagreeing with an individual or individuals does not equate to teacher bashing/ resentment/ bad memories of school. It's like the Godwin's Law of this thread.

So no resentment towards teachers on the thread?

HerrKuehn

Stateofyou wrote: »

Yes, good job you dug up a personal opinion. I did not ever state it wasn't considered by anyone in any position of authority here due to the good weather. It wasn't possible for schools to roll out a remote learning plan with no time or funding or resources to prepare, especially as people were in shock then and just trying to figure s-t out.

You stated that remote learning here was tried and failed earlier this summer, so again, don't know why you're derailing from the point here. Maybe because you can't back that up.

we had remote learning before the summer did we not? That is what I mean by it was tried. I know some people would like it, but given the extra cost, the extra time required for development, the local issues like lack of broadband, the time required for training teachers, the relatively small benefit of having it etc etc, it was not deemed worthwhile I would assume. At least I have not heard anyone in government suggesting we should develop it further.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

For 3 days. It didn't cause a national lockdown. The 3 months steady increase prior to that caused the increased level of restrictions

The system was under pressure for a lot longer than 3 days and most certainly contributed to the peak we had in October which in turn leads to restrictions.

That's not my opinion, that's what public health officials tasked with tracing was sounding the alarm over weeks before.