Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Thats me · 26-10-2020 9:50am

irishblessing wrote: »

New development-

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173891-contact-tracing-schools/

support from the Department of Education in helping school principals to find substitute teachers or special needs assistants where absences arise as a result of Covid-19.

Is it many spare teachers available?

BonsaiKitten · 26-10-2020 10:24am

Thats me wrote: »

Is it many spare teachers available?

Certainly not where I am anyway and every school would have a list of the local available subs. Curious to see what this new initiative entails myself as I can't see how it's going to be useful.

irishblessing · 26-10-2020 10:37am

Is there not a teacher/sub shortage? Are the subs not known to be very few and spread horrifically thinly across many different schools? I also heard, and I don't know how many, that they aren't taking positions at schools known to have cases or outbreaks.

-If it's so easy to implement this in the space of one week, why the f-k has it taken them so long to do. Has this not been asked for by the school community since September?

-If the HSE often aren't deeming teachers and SNA's to be close contacts, then what tangible difference will it actually make?

-If the HSE are refusing to test all students in a small, overcrowded classroom sharing the same air for more than 5 hours, then what tangible difference will it actually make?

-This new term "mass testing" is suddenly everywhere and all it is, is a play on semantics. There is no such thing as "mass testing."

-The HSE still refuse to publish the figures in the schools we're looking for and in a transparent manner. Why?

-I think this is mainly an optics move to try and placate the unions and keep the schools open for economic reasons at any cost. In reality there will be the same faulty testing and therefore tracing happening, in an environment that will allow a huge amount of asymptomatic people to spread the virus and bring into the home.

-In reality, teachers and school staff are no safer. Students are not more safe. Classrooms aren't larger. Class sizes aren't any smaller. Ventilation isn't any better. Masks still aren't required in primary though children aged 10 and older are shown to contract and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. There has been no announcement of extra PPE being supplied such as facemarks (enough to allow 2-3 changes daily), shields (in supplement to masks to protect eyes, not in place of masks), microphone funding, perspex shields for every teacher desk (good luck getting that to fit in every small classroom in this country, féck off with your media stunt Michael) nor are there shields for students desks and other countries have done.

-And last but certainly not least, there is still absolutely no work done on a national, government or school body level, for a hybrid remote learning plan. Which will ensure a fair and level support to children to continue their education in light of continuous quarantines, illness, class and school closures and sub shortages. It will give choice to and protect students, staff and families who are higher risk of which there are huge amounts of people needed to avail of. Which would reduce class sizes and allow for a safer environment for those still needing to be in full time and those rotating in/out.

-Where is the forward thinking, the talent to lead, the transparency we all want and deserve, and the protection of our citizens and especially our children while still keeping the economy going?

This government is an utter disgrace.

meeeeh · 26-10-2020 10:47am

Maybe we should have SF government who are doing such a stellar job in the North. Then we'd be sorted.

irishblessing · 26-10-2020 10:54am

meeeeh wrote: »

Maybe we should have SF government who are doing such a stellar job in the North. Then we'd be sorted.

SF are leading the government and making decisions for citizens in NI?

meeeeh · 26-10-2020 11:06am

irishblessing wrote: »

SF are leading the government and making decisions for citizens in NI?

Oh that's the excuse now. It's nothing to do with them, blame the Unionists and Boris when it goes bad and take credit when it goes well. Maybe they should resign their positions if governing North has nothing to do with them.

I wouldn't drag this in but I think it's pretty sad that Shinners are trying to close schools for electoral gains.

irishblessing · 26-10-2020 11:18am

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh that's the excuse now. It's nothing to do with them, blame the Unionists and Boris when it goes bad and take credit when it goes well. Maybe they should resign their positions if governing North has nothing to do with them.

I wouldn't drag this in but I think it's pretty sad that Shinners are trying to close schools for electoral gains.

Are you away with the fairies or what?
Those words are your own. No-one said any of that.
How is SF in complete control there.
What has SF actually done wrong, and w/out using hyperbole and conjecture again.

When I said "Sinn Fein anyone?" it's because FF and FG are actually in charge here and myself and many others can be critical and point to specific policy and leadership failure because they actually are steering the ship here.

I also asked that because in the 2020 Irish general election, Sinn Féin received greatest number of first preference votes nationally (and in party's history). Although the party tried to form a coalition with the Labour Party and Social Democrats, a deal could not be agreed before Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party formed a coalition of their own and to the exclusion of SF.

Although the people's choice was clear, SF have not had their chance to lead here. In light of and absence of competent leadership here (in my opinion) SF certainly should have the opportunity and especially because the people have spoken. Is this what democracy looks like?

I really don't want this turning political here, but I wanted to explain my comment on leadership in the context of failed school and health care policies, especially with covid management by those in power here.

Icyseanfitz · 26-10-2020 11:19am

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh that's the excuse now. It's nothing to do with them, blame the Unionists and Boris when it goes bad and take credit when it goes well. Maybe they should resign their positions if governing North has nothing to do with them.

I wouldn't drag this in but I think it's pretty sad that Shinners are trying to close schools for electoral gains.

have SF asked for schools to close or said anything on them? i sure havnt heard a peep from any bloody politician about schools :mad:

meeeeh · 26-10-2020 12:07pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

have SF asked for schools to close or said anything on them? i sure havnt heard a peep from any bloody politician about schools :mad:

You mean did they take a stand? Of course not, that could loose votes. They are just undermining decisions that were made and pretending they weren't briefed after leaving briefings early.

I'm not going to discuss the rest because if people can't count then it's complete waste of time.

dundalkfc10 · 26-10-2020 1:03pm

meeeeh wrote: »

You mean did they take a stand? Of course not, that could loose votes. They are just undermining decisions that were made and pretending they weren't briefed after leaving briefings early.

I'm not going to discuss the rest because if people can't count then it's complete waste of time.

So Sinn Féin have not said close schools, that's been established

What are FF and FG (The Mafia in charge) going to do to make schools safer for all staff, teachers and students?

Not say we will get more teachers, there is none. They could try the return home for Ireland needs you campaign. Worked well last time, Health Care staff was increased so enable us meet the demand due to Covid, Oh wait

Thats me · 26-10-2020 1:09pm

irishblessing wrote: »

-The HSE still refuse to publish the figures in the schools we're looking for and in a transparent manner. Why?

BTW was "The overwhelming evidence from our public health experts" ever made publically available?

Icyseanfitz · 26-10-2020 1:28pm

meeeeh wrote: »

You mean did they take a stand? Of course not, that could loose votes. They are just undermining decisions that were made and pretending they weren't briefed after leaving briefings early.

I'm not going to discuss the rest because if people can't count then it's complete waste of time.

So SF haven't advocated for closing schools? Good to know

Thats me · 26-10-2020 2:03pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1320209842859134977?s=19

New Princeton study indicates children are a factor in spreading the virus

Princeton study points children as superspreaders.

Another study hased on Hong Kong data (Jan-Apr) showing superspreaders were responsible for 80% cases: "Clustering and superspreading potential of SARS-CoV-2 infections in Hong Kong"

wirelessdude01 · 26-10-2020 3:41pm

This principal is pretty straight in what they think to Emma O''Kelly.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1173968/?__twitter_impression=true

8k71ps · 26-10-2020 3:51pm

Thats me wrote: »

BTW was "The overwhelming evidence from our public health experts" ever made publically available?

I believe it was a single study from when the schools closed in march that there were no infections proven in schools (before we had contact tracing or anything whatsoever). I'd love to see the minister attempting to say there aren't any proven cases now!

Alongside "international evidence" which at this point is code for "studies the government agrees with".

8k71ps · 26-10-2020 3:54pm

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

So Sinn Féin have not said close schools, that's been established

What are FF and FG (The Mafia in charge) going to do to make schools safer for all staff, teachers and students?

Not say we will get more teachers, there is none. They could try the return home for Ireland needs you campaign. Worked well last time, Health Care staff was increased so enable us meet the demand due to Covid, Oh wait

I'd say it's far more likely the unions do sweet **** all, the department doesn't bother doing anything and gets away with it until people notice the cases don't seem to be going down as quickly as they should be.

frank8211 · 26-10-2020 5:58pm

another school in Portlaoise now. It goes on and on

Dickie10 · 26-10-2020 6:46pm

surely it makes sense now that were trying to get numbers down, leave schools shut for another 2 weeks , what harm will it do? remote teaching even for 3-4 weeks, sure like can we not just push the leaving cert back til late june and we will teach an extra fortnight into june, i definitley wouldnt mind that with the year thats in it.

8k71ps · 26-10-2020 7:49pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

surely it makes sense now that were trying to get numbers down, leave schools shut for another 2 weeks , what harm will it do? remote teaching even for 3-4 weeks, sure like can we not just push the leaving cert back til late june and we will teach an extra fortnight into june, i definitley wouldnt mind that with the year thats in it.

I'm totally guessing but I'd say that's the plan if they don't get control of the cases quick enough or there's a further rise in Dublin

Loafing Oaf · 26-10-2020 7:54pm

8k71ps wrote: »

I'm totally guessing but I'd say that's the plan if they don't get control of the cases quick enough or there's a further rise in Dublin

If you're talking about extending the mid-term break for another week or two, you wouldn't know in time whether level 5 is working. I'd imagine it would be the middle of next week before you'd have a good handle on that...

Grandeeod · 26-10-2020 7:56pm

I've just been through the whole Convid case in a school thing. In this example my daughter is in 1st year PP. I received a text message last Thursday evening confirming a case in my daughters class and to await further instructions. The class was to stay home on Friday. I was under the impression that teachers and students weren't considered close contacts within the classroom setting, despite not being comfortable with that. On Friday morning a HSE letter appeared on the schools's website reporting the case and said that all close contacts had been identified and informed. A sigh of relief for me, but still doubt. Two hours later I received an email from the HSE that said my daughter was a close contact and required a test and a list of instructions including staying out of school for 14 days.

Saturday afternoon, another text confirming a test at our local centre on Sunday. Test done and result back this morning (Monday). Negative, thankfully. So it was fairly quick in the scheme of things. But obviously my daughter still has to restrict her movements for another 9 days in accordance with public health. The mid term break takes up much of it. However if you take the mid term out of things thats two weeks out of school. If this happens again its another two weeks out of school and maybe more if she tests positive and passes it on to her parents. Even with a negative result, the two weeks out of school is disruptive with no plan in place from the school. While some people go on about education being important, rolling stay out of school policies once a confirmed case happens, is also disruptive if it happens every so often, not to mention the stress that it puts on a child and their household. I don't know how public health teams are approaching PP schools anymore. Some counties HSE letters name the school, some don't. Are kids in a class with a confirmed case considered close contacts. Back in August we were told they weren't. My particular household really doesn't want to go through the last 5 days again.

So I'm back to my mantra from August. One week in class and one week learning at home with homework thats checked on the week back in school. That guarantees two metre distancing and less kids in the school on any given week. All that said my daughter tested negative and I should be supportive of the school system, but I just think we dodged a bullet.

Smacruairi · 26-10-2020 8:03pm

I agree with you, that's a long 2 weeks to kill, especially if they are negative. This is why the unions were pushing for a remote platform and standardisation of approach, only for people to shout "bold bad unions bold".

The unions and indeed school staff and parents are sick of the good will of individual teachers papering over severe defincies in our system.

Grandeeod · 26-10-2020 8:15pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

I agree with you, that's a long 2 weeks to kill, especially if they are negative. This is why the unions were pushing for a remote platform and standardisation of approach, only for people to shout "bold bad unions bold".

The unions and indeed school staff and parents are sick of the good will of individual teachers papering over severe defincies in our system.

Agreed. I can only imagine the utter chaos that ensues if the policy of sending a class home for 14 days post positive case continues. My daughter was asked at the test centre, was it her first test.:eek: What does that tell you? So she goes back to school and in another few weeks, it's back to what she just went through, possibly. That's no good to her. While shes delighted with a negative result, she doesn't want a repeat. Nor do we after watching her worry despite us trying to play it down.

Smacruairi · 26-10-2020 8:27pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Agreed. I can only imagine the utter chaos that ensues if the policy of sending a class home for 14 days post positive case continues. My daughter was asked at the test centre, was it her first test.:eek: What does that tell you? So she goes back to school and in another few weeks, it's back to what she just went through, possibly. That's no good to her. While shes delighted with a negative result, she doesn't want a repeat. Nor do we after watching her worry despite us trying to play it down.

Same for us in school. You're very very hesitant to move on, but you can't skid the wheels for 2 weeks either. Then you post the homework home and say submit it online but that's not teaching, and nor should it be. And then Josepha Madigan has the gaul to say her side of things everything is fine? I support parents 1000% in their frustrations here and they are shared by staff and students alike. Unfortunately they won't listen to us without strike action so the parents council really need to be heard here.

irishblessing · 26-10-2020 8:42pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

Same for us in school. You're very very hesitant to move on, but you can't skid the wheels for 2 weeks either. Then you post the homework home and say submit it online but that's not teaching, and nor should it be. And then Josepha Madigan has the gaul to say her side of things everything is fine? I support parents 1000% in their frustrations here and they are shared by staff and students alike. Unfortunately they won't listen to us without strike action so the parents council really need to be heard here.

What IS the National Parents Council doing? Anything? Parents Associations pay them each year for membership well this year we need some hard stances taken and advocacy - this is not the year for only workshops/and webinars. Anyone know if they're active for parents in all this? I haven't heard anything.

Jinglejangle69 · 27-10-2020 12:02am

Grandeeod wrote: »

I've just been through the whole Convid case in a school thing. In this example my daughter is in 1st year PP. I received a text message last Thursday evening confirming a case in my daughters class and to await further instructions. The class was to stay home on Friday. I was under the impression that teachers and students weren't considered close contacts within the classroom setting, despite not being comfortable with that. On Friday morning a HSE letter appeared on the schools's website reporting the case and said that all close contacts had been identified and informed. A sigh of relief for me, but still doubt. Two hours later I received an email from the HSE that said my daughter was a close contact and required a test and a list of instructions including staying out of school for 14 days.

Saturday afternoon, another text confirming a test at our local centre on Sunday. Test done and result back this morning (Monday). Negative, thankfully. So it was fairly quick in the scheme of things. But obviously my daughter still has to restrict her movements for another 9 days in accordance with public health. The mid term break takes up much of it. However if you take the mid term out of things thats two weeks out of school. If this happens again its another two weeks out of school and maybe more if she tests positive and passes it on to her parents. Even with a negative result, the two weeks out of school is disruptive with no plan in place from the school. While some people go on about education being important, rolling stay out of school policies once a confirmed case happens, is also disruptive if it happens every so often, not to mention the stress that it puts on a child and their household. I don't know how public health teams are approaching PP schools anymore. Some counties HSE letters name the school, some don't. Are kids in a class with a confirmed case considered close contacts. Back in August we were told they weren't. My particular household really doesn't want to go through the last 5 days again.

So I'm back to my mantra from August. One week in class and one week learning at home with homework thats checked on the week back in school. That guarantees two metre distancing and less kids in the school on any given week. All that said my daughter tested negative and I should be supportive of the school system, but I just think we dodged a bullet.

So the school isn't supporting you like they should if your child has to miss school?

Icyseanfitz · 27-10-2020 12:24am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So the school isn't supporting you like they should if your child has to miss school?

Schools have been actively told by the department not to support children learning from home

blanch152 · 27-10-2020 12:49am

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

So Sinn Féin have not said close schools, that's been established

What are FF and FG (The Mafia in charge) going to do to make schools safer for all staff, teachers and students?

Not say we will get more teachers, there is none. They could try the return home for Ireland needs you campaign. Worked well last time, Health Care staff was increased so enable us meet the demand due to Covid, Oh wait

So Sinn Fein are in favour of closing schools in the North but against it in the South?

Is that because

(1) they accept that the performance of the SF/DUP government has been worse than the FF/FG/Green government in controlling the virus?
(2) they don’t know their arse from their elbow?
(3) they are a lying bunch of hypocrites?
(4) all of the above?

Answers on a postcard to West Belfast.

Hint: SFOS may have the answer.

wirelessdude01 · 27-10-2020 1:11am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So the school isn't supporting you like they should if your child has to miss school?

You do know it is midterm so schools are out at the moment anyway?

The poster in question cannot say with any certainty that the school doesn't have a place. They can only say that with any degree of certainty next Monday if they haven't been made aware of said plan.

wirelessdude01 · 27-10-2020 1:15am

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Schools have been actively told by the department not to support children learning from home

Just to correct you. In this instance the child would need to be supported by the school for a few days next week.

The no support thing comes into play when the parents and/or child decide not to attend for non-covid reasons. I'm aware of a child that didn't attend for 6 weeks due to being 'anxious' and the school received guidance fro the department that they were not to provide any work and/or support.

wirelessdude01 · 27-10-2020 1:18am

irishblessing wrote: »

What IS the National Parents Council doing? Anything? Parents Associations pay them each year for membership well this year we need some hard stances taken and advocacy - this is not the year for only workshops/and webinars. Anyone know if they're active for parents in all this? I haven't heard anything.

You can be sure that Aine Lynch will turn up in the media this week spouting some rubbish that is total fence sitting. She rarely actually has an opinion or indeed puts forward a solution.

Icyseanfitz · 27-10-2020 1:25am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Just to correct you. In this instance the child would need to be supported by the school for a few days next week.

The no support thing comes into play when the parents and/or child decide not to attend for non-covid reasons. I'm aware of a child that didn't attend for 6 weeks due to being 'anxious' and the school received guidance fro the department that they were not to provide any work and/or support.

Id assume this also applies if there's a covid case and parents pull the child out because they may believe the child was a close contact? (same class etc.)

wirelessdude01 · 27-10-2020 1:56am

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Id assume this also applies if there's a covid case and parents pull the child out because they may believe the child was a close contact? (same class etc.)

if the child is considered a close contact and has to have day 0 and day 7 tests then they are to be supported. Close contact as decided by the HSE under the current setup

As you know if parents pull the child then no support.

BonsaiKitten · 27-10-2020 2:07am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So the school isn't supporting you like they should if your child has to miss school?

What 'support' should they be expecting right now exactly? Given that it is midterm break.

Zico · 27-10-2020 2:18am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Whats the difference between putting 30 people in a room in a school and in a factory or as pub?

Only thing I can think of is that the school room is a smaller area by a huge margin.

These are the best people.

DSN · 27-10-2020 8:42am

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Schools have been actively told by the department not to support children learning from home

In my son's school (secondary) close contacts of case awaiting tests n restricting movements had to log into classes daily & do work going on in class & any scheduled tests last week so this isn't true in our case. Some teachers better than others at it but good support given all they have to contend with right now.

khalessi · 27-10-2020 9:55am

So the Department received a letter in August about the hand sanitiser

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/...ter-in-august/

Icyseanfitz · 27-10-2020 9:57am

DSN wrote: »

In my son's school (secondary) close contacts of case awaiting tests n restricting movements had to log into classes daily & do work going on in class & any scheduled tests last week so this isn't true in our case. Some teachers better than others at it but good support given all they have to contend with right now.

To be fair my post was lacking in detail, of course we are all trying to help any student that is trying to work from home, we are using teams in my school. I was more referring to the likes of tarbert that was ordered to reopen and basically told that any student working from home who wasn't highlighted by the HSE was expressly not to receive any support from school. Disgraceful stuff really, we should be encouraging students to work from home if they can in my opinion.

wirelessdude01 · 27-10-2020 11:47am

Claire Byrne show talking about ventilation.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 27-10-2020 11:51am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Claire Byrne show talking about ventilation.

What they say? This a bone of contention in our school

Vestiapx · 27-10-2020 11:53am

khalessi wrote: »

So the Department received a letter in August about the hand sanitiser

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/...ter-in-august/

Link no worky

wirelessdude01 · 27-10-2020 11:59am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

What they say? This a bone of contention in our school

Have cross ventilation and wear layers.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 27-10-2020 12:04pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Have cross ventilation and wear layers.

It's going to be an ongoing battle so

wirelessdude01 · 27-10-2020 12:06pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

It's going to be an ongoing battle so

What's going on in your place?

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 27-10-2020 12:07pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What's going on in your place?

Principal more concerned with the cold and many staff teaching full lessons with windows and doors closed

Edit: I presume that Claire Byrne segment will get posted online?

Darwin · 27-10-2020 12:35pm

Vestiapx wrote: »

Link no worky

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2020/10/23/school-hand-sanitiser-concerns-raised-in-local-mans-letter-to-minister-in-august/

irishblessing · 27-10-2020 12:56pm

Came across this article on social media, almost didn't post since I usually maintain a personal policy against reading from the DM -

In mid-October, more than 40% of schools in Bury, Knowsley, Liverpool and Manchester had confirmed cases.

Meanwhile, 710 of teachers had a positive test on October 16 - which was 35% of the total of confirmed cases among teachers across England on that day.

Article comments speak to the s.show that the constant quarantines and class closures cause on the parents/family as well. It seems they face fines if they take children out of school according to one comment. But because they keep having to quarantine and from work as well and therefore losing pay frequently, it would be more cost effective to keep children home and pay the fine than to keep missing work due to all the quarantines. What a mess.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8883319/Northern-schools-disrupted-Covid.html

mvl · 27-10-2020 3:41pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Have cross ventilation and wear layers.

Oh, yeah, you'd wish government is keen to invest in ventilation upgrade for our schools, if they want to keep schools open.

But quoting from this article
https://www.thesun.ie/news/6067348/irish-device-kills-covid-air-end-lockdown/
"“Businesses were all very excited. But we reached out to Government, zero interest." ... “The lack of creative thinking in Government is nearly as big a threat as Coronavirus."

deiseindublin · 27-10-2020 3:49pm

You'd wonder where ventilation/open windows stands coming into Winter with minimum temperatures allowed in schools? You're supposed to let management know if temp is below 17.2 and they fix it, find a suitable alternative or send the kids home.

(Edited to add that TUI say 17.2 C, but INTO and ASTI say 16C, never knew they were different).

Icyseanfitz · 27-10-2020 4:09pm

Our school have the heating on and windows closed already

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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