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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Tell that to Japan, Shanghai, S. Korea, Hong Kong. They all follow the same way we do, large classes, Chalk n talk, grind schools, rote learning, Strict discipline and they are all at the top of the PISA/TIMMS every time they come out.

    Have you links to back up that countries such as Japan and Korea haven't reduced class sizes and are not making use of remote/hybrid learning? I find it hard to believe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    Have you links to back up that countries such as Japan and Korea haven't reduced class sizes and are not making use of remote/hybrid learning? I find it hard to believe.


    i assumed we were talking pre covid? plenty data here but we have lower primary PTR and upper secondary than China et al. I've spent time in SK working for Samsung and The education is insane there. Everything still based around teacher in classroom , tech is purely for support, teacher is everything. There is a reason Asians value education so much its not just a trope on TV.

    https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SE.SEC.ENRL.TC.ZS/compare?country=cn#country=cn:ie


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,589 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭8k71ps


    Have you links to back up that countries such as Japan and Korea haven't reduced class sizes and are not making use of remote/hybrid learning? I find it hard to believe.

    South Korea in particular had a phased opening , they close the school if even a single case is detected , have obligatory masks for all age groups, keep to normal social distancing guidelines within the schools and have temperature checks in the entrance of every school. Students and teachers aren't even allowed to mingle during Lunch. It is so hilariously different that our statistics are either clearly wrong or Irish people have some form of genetic immunity, I cannot fathom how our approach is so lackluster yet apparently is producing similar results when we know children transmit the virus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭8k71ps


    Thats me wrote: »


    There can be no overwhelming evidence from a system whose contact tracing system has been broken in general for at least a week and broken for teachers since the very beginning, provides bizarre and lop-sided advice to teachers and uses international statistics only when it suits what they were going to do anyways.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Well done Seamus and Angela. Two very active principals on social media.

    Especially to Angela for calling Michael Martin out on the BS that they have engaged with principals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    8k71ps wrote: »
    South Korea in particular had a phased opening , they close the school if even a single case is detected , have obligatory masks for all age groups, keep to normal social distancing guidelines within the schools and have temperature checks in the entrance of every school. Students and teachers aren't even allowed to mingle during Lunch. It is so hilariously different that our statistics are either clearly wrong or Irish people have some form of genetic immunity, I cannot fathom how our approach is so lackluster yet apparently is producing similar results when we know children transmit the virus.

    id assume many asian countries are working in a similar way, Its amazing how we dismiss the way they do things


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Queried


    Well done Seamus and Angela. Two very active principals on social media.

    Especially to Angela for calling Michael Martin out on the BS that they have engaged with principals.

    Missed the interview, any chance you wouldn't mind giving a brief summary of it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    id assume many asian countries are working in a similar way, Its amazing how we dismiss the way they do things

    There is cultural difference... When Asians said to wear mask and isolate, what you think they do - filling pubs, assembling into huge parties or dense crowds protesting against wearing masks? No, they are wearing masks and isolate. So they can maintain infection more or less under cotrol.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Queried wrote: »
    Missed the interview, any chance you wouldn't mind giving a brief summary of it?

    Angela's is linked above. Seamus was along the same lines.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Queried


    Angela's is linked above. Seamus was along the same lines.

    Thanks wirelessdude01, I was wondering if they were live on Virgin Media News, will check out Seamus' interview too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Queried wrote: »
    Thanks wirelessdude01, I was wondering if they were live on Virgin Media News, will check out Seamus' interview too.

    Prerecorded pieces.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,266 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    Queried wrote: »
    Missed the interview, any chance you wouldn't mind giving a brief summary of it?
    She basically said DES couldn't continue engaging with principals when they hadn't started.
    Said a joke to say there were pods when all students using same bathrooms and breathing the same air for 5+ hours.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Don't a lot of Asian countries work on a collectivistic mindset? I can't say I know much about it, but they basically do things for the benefit of the group rather than the individual. We don't have that mindset and it's not something you can just assimilate even if you think you're doing good work for the wider society.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    delly wrote: »
    Don't a lot of Asian countries work on a collectivistic mindset? I can't say I know much about it, but they basically do things for the benefit of the group rather than the individual. We don't have that mindset and it's not something you can just assimilate even if you think you're doing good work for the wider society.

    America has that same problem... :rolleyes:


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,484 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Following assurances given by the poster Blondini's threadban is now lifted


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Welcome back Blondini :)

    New development-

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173891-contact-tracing-schools/

    New system to speed up contact tracing in schools

    Still some horsesh-t in the article though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Welcome back Blondini :)

    New development-

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173891-contact-tracing-schools/

    New system to speed up contact tracing in schools

    Still some horsesh-t in the article though.

    It just reeks of bull**** to try and placate the unions and parents imo, what will this "new plan" Actually do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Welcome back Blondini :)

    New development-

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173891-contact-tracing-schools/

    New system to speed up contact tracing in schools

    Still some horsesh-t in the article though.

    Quite where they are pulling these teachers from is beyond me.

    I'm saying that panels of vetted 'civilians' will be established to supervise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me



    support from the Department of Education in helping school principals to find substitute teachers or special needs assistants where absences arise as a result of Covid-19.

    Is it many spare teachers available?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    Thats me wrote: »
    Is it many spare teachers available?

    Certainly not where I am anyway and every school would have a list of the local available subs. Curious to see what this new initiative entails myself as I can't see how it's going to be useful.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Is there not a teacher/sub shortage? Are the subs not known to be very few and spread horrifically thinly across many different schools? I also heard, and I don't know how many, that they aren't taking positions at schools known to have cases or outbreaks.

    -If it's so easy to implement this in the space of one week, why the f-k has it taken them so long to do. Has this not been asked for by the school community since September?

    -If the HSE often aren't deeming teachers and SNA's to be close contacts, then what tangible difference will it actually make?

    -If the HSE are refusing to test all students in a small, overcrowded classroom sharing the same air for more than 5 hours, then what tangible difference will it actually make?

    -This new term "mass testing" is suddenly everywhere and all it is, is a play on semantics. There is no such thing as "mass testing."

    -The HSE still refuse to publish the figures in the schools we're looking for and in a transparent manner. Why?

    -I think this is mainly an optics move to try and placate the unions and keep the schools open for economic reasons at any cost. In reality there will be the same faulty testing and therefore tracing happening, in an environment that will allow a huge amount of asymptomatic people to spread the virus and bring into the home.

    -In reality, teachers and school staff are no safer. Students are not more safe. Classrooms aren't larger. Class sizes aren't any smaller. Ventilation isn't any better. Masks still aren't required in primary though children aged 10 and older are shown to contract and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. There has been no announcement of extra PPE being supplied such as facemarks (enough to allow 2-3 changes daily), shields (in supplement to masks to protect eyes, not in place of masks), microphone funding, perspex shields for every teacher desk (good luck getting that to fit in every small classroom in this country, féck off with your media stunt Michael) nor are there shields for students desks and other countries have done.

    -And last but certainly not least, there is still absolutely no work done on a national, government or school body level, for a hybrid remote learning plan. Which will ensure a fair and level support to children to continue their education in light of continuous quarantines, illness, class and school closures and sub shortages. It will give choice to and protect students, staff and families who are higher risk of which there are huge amounts of people needed to avail of. Which would reduce class sizes and allow for a safer environment for those still needing to be in full time and those rotating in/out.

    -Where is the forward thinking, the talent to lead, the transparency we all want and deserve, and the protection of our citizens and especially our children while still keeping the economy going?

    This government is an utter disgrace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Maybe we should have SF government who are doing such a stellar job in the North. Then we'd be sorted.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Maybe we should have SF government who are doing such a stellar job in the North. Then we'd be sorted.

    SF are leading the government and making decisions for citizens in NI?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    SF are leading the government and making decisions for citizens in NI?

    Oh that's the excuse now. It's nothing to do with them, blame the Unionists and Boris when it goes bad and take credit when it goes well. Maybe they should resign their positions if governing North has nothing to do with them.

    I wouldn't drag this in but I think it's pretty sad that Shinners are trying to close schools for electoral gains.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh that's the excuse now. It's nothing to do with them, blame the Unionists and Boris when it goes bad and take credit when it goes well. Maybe they should resign their positions if governing North has nothing to do with them.

    I wouldn't drag this in but I think it's pretty sad that Shinners are trying to close schools for electoral gains.

    Are you away with the fairies or what?
    Those words are your own. No-one said any of that.
    How is SF in complete control there.
    What has SF actually done wrong, and w/out using hyperbole and conjecture again.

    When I said "Sinn Fein anyone?" it's because FF and FG are actually in charge here and myself and many others can be critical and point to specific policy and leadership failure because they actually are steering the ship here.

    I also asked that because in the 2020 Irish general election, Sinn Féin received greatest number of first preference votes nationally (and in party's history). Although the party tried to form a coalition with the Labour Party and Social Democrats, a deal could not be agreed before Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party formed a coalition of their own and to the exclusion of SF.

    Although the people's choice was clear, SF have not had their chance to lead here. In light of and absence of competent leadership here (in my opinion) SF certainly should have the opportunity and especially because the people have spoken. Is this what democracy looks like?

    I really don't want this turning political here, but I wanted to explain my comment on leadership in the context of failed school and health care policies, especially with covid management by those in power here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh that's the excuse now. It's nothing to do with them, blame the Unionists and Boris when it goes bad and take credit when it goes well. Maybe they should resign their positions if governing North has nothing to do with them.

    I wouldn't drag this in but I think it's pretty sad that Shinners are trying to close schools for electoral gains.

    have SF asked for schools to close or said anything on them? i sure havnt heard a peep from any bloody politician about schools :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    have SF asked for schools to close or said anything on them? i sure havnt heard a peep from any bloody politician about schools :mad:

    You mean did they take a stand? Of course not, that could loose votes. They are just undermining decisions that were made and pretending they weren't briefed after leaving briefings early.

    I'm not going to discuss the rest because if people can't count then it's complete waste of time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    meeeeh wrote: »
    You mean did they take a stand? Of course not, that could loose votes. They are just undermining decisions that were made and pretending they weren't briefed after leaving briefings early.

    I'm not going to discuss the rest because if people can't count then it's complete waste of time.

    So Sinn Féin have not said close schools, that's been established

    What are FF and FG (The Mafia in charge) going to do to make schools safer for all staff, teachers and students?

    Not say we will get more teachers, there is none. They could try the return home for Ireland needs you campaign. Worked well last time, Health Care staff was increased so enable us meet the demand due to Covid, Oh wait


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    -The HSE still refuse to publish the figures in the schools we're looking for and in a transparent manner. Why?


    BTW was "The overwhelming evidence from our public health experts" ever made publically available?


This discussion has been closed.
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