Great big bunch of coke heads!!

Sifo · 04-11-2005 2:32pm

dahooligan wrote:

I personally don't believe that doin coke is correct, so by your reasoning if I don't understand or accept it then I'm not open minded?! Put together a coherent argument or don't bother at all.

your a bouncer Booooo!!

i believe i said "open mindedness is an acceptence or understanding of things that you dont personally believe to be correct!!"..
:rolleyes:

growler · 04-11-2005 2:32pm

First off, I think its invalid to say that rightness / wrongness is interchangeable with legality / illegality , laws change all the time, what is "wrong" is not so flexible (though it may be very different among different groups, cultures etc) . In particular the laws relating to drug taking change as the societies involved change their own views on what is acceptable, the downgrading of hash in the UK for example has basically removed the illegality of one substance, but no doubt, for a large number of people smoking hash is still "wrong". Each individual needs to decide for him / herself what they accept as acceptable or wrong, society will punish those caught doing illegal acts and each individual accepts thse risks when deciding on their own actions.

I think the OP's opinion and attitude has been hugely shaped by personal experience of seeing her (?) sister coming home off her head at 16 and the subsequent changes witnessed. Of course anyone seeing a close family member about to screw up her life would become anti-coke. I think you're time would be far better spent trying to influence your sister than winding yourself up about the activities of passing acquaintences. That may be selfish but your class mates are not preaching at you to try X or attempting to change how you live your life, what right do you have try to influence theirs ?

I do sympathise with you Audge, I have a number of very close friends who have serious substance abuse problems ( worse than coke) , they no longer seem to be able to enjoy themselves without it and are impossible to talk to when on it. I enjoy their company when I can, I harrangue then about it when I can but ultimately its their choice and there is only so much I can do, anay more lectures from me would probably jeopardise long standing friendships.

Why do people do coke ?
It's an interesting and fairly subtle drug when taken in moderation, it gives you increased self confidence, it makes you think you are being sophisticated, articulate, charming and amusing, it seems to give you a mental edge (i.e. it makes your brain work faster) , it allows you to drink a lot more than you otherwise could without it. When self confidence mutates into aggression then its not necessarily the drug's fault it is as much to do with the personality involved, a few double Jamesons would probably result in the same attitude.
Many coke users far prefer it to booze, because its often a cheaper than drinking all night, you don't puke, get hangovers or drool , you can tell the taxi driver where you are going without slurring etc. etc. Nosebleeds are usually a sign of very poor quality charlie ( though not always) , and in general the quality of coke in ireland is very poor.

Personally I think that in moderation its no more dangerous than drink.

Dave! · 04-11-2005 3:11pm

I think you need to get off your high-horse and stop judging everybody because you happen to not like what they do. Maybe they think that you drinking alcohol is a "dirty habit"... But they don't lecture you about it. It's none of your bloody business what they do with their bodies, so if you don't like their company, then avoid it (as you said you're doing), and let them live their lives. They'll either cop on and stop, or won't, and they'll suffer. Their choice, not yours.

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 3:12pm

dahooligan wrote:

Ah touche Aggy, I thought the aul :cool: smiley would've given off the sarcastic vibe I intended to go with it... but how and ever

No offense meant

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 3:14pm

WhiteWashMan wrote:

if you are going to make comparisons, at least compare apples with apples and pears with pears.

the question put was 'what is wrong with taking cocaine'

the answer is that its illegal. yo uare not supposed to do it.
thats the black and white of the law.

if you want to talk about the moral and ethical wrongs and rights, thats a different thing altogether, but at least make the distinction in your posts.

i think the speed limits are ridiculous, but i still have to adhere to them like everyone else.

just becuase you feel that taking illegal narcotics is acceptable, does not mean that your arguments are justifiable with a bizarre comparison with fish...

but again, its an ethical debate now, and there are no right or wrong answers when all opinion is subjective.
you can only go on what society deems acceptable, what the law says is acceptable, and what you personal feel are the limits of what you accept, and everyone differs on the last issue.

It just annoys me the way people are going on about how bad street drugs are and then they go out and consume a socially accepted drug without thinking about it as a drug. It's an example of double standards.

dahooligan · 04-11-2005 3:25pm

Sifo wrote:

your a bouncer Booooo!!

i believe i said "open mindedness is an acceptence or understanding of things that you dont personally believe to be correct!!"..
:rolleyes:

My bad, not reading things properly again.. to busy throwin people out of places for being naughty!

But what I said about people tellin me I should be more open minded when I'm pointin towrds the door is true.. I just don't know anymore.
It does seem to be a double standard for everything. Ideally we'd live in a society where no additives are needed for people to be confident or outgoing. At the moment though we have legal and illegal and what is acceptable and unacceptable to people. And drugs just don't fall into the acceptable catergory at the moment (for me).

And on a different thought, why should anyone getdown off any high horse? Isn't this what an open board is all about? People having different views be they extreme or not... more horses is what we need methinks. Black ones with white patches!

Zombrex · 04-11-2005 3:26pm

Ag marbh wrote:

I think alcohol is a bigger problem than our diluted cocaine.

Possibly, but afaik most publicans don't use the money they make from selling drinks to kill people ...

I think if someone needs to take Coke to feel comfortable in social situations, or to feel good about themselves, well that is a bit sad in my view. But to each their own, some people need to take lots of drink on a night out, some people need to take lots of drugs. Coke is actually quite harmful to you, espeically take over long periods (which of course users never actually believe they are doing, or believe they will stop before it gets to a long period), so I do think it should still be illegal to sell, just like I think it should be illegal to sell cigarettes. People shouldn't be allowed make money off something that can only harm you.

My biggest problem though, with people buying and using illegal drugs is the fact they are supporting the worst and most dangerous criminals, in Ireland and the rest of the world

I found it hilarious in college when I saw the hippy crowd refusing to buy Nestle or Coke (cause they are "bad," man) but perfectly happy to buy hash, Es and LSD. Where they thought that stuff was coming from I have no idea :rolleyes:

WhiteWashMan · 04-11-2005 3:28pm

Ag marbh wrote:

It just annoys me the way people are going on about how bad street drugs are and then they go out and consume a socially accepted drug without thinking about it as a drug. It's an example of double standards.

that may be so, but which are you arguing?
the law or the morality.

you cant seem to make up your mind.

i get annoyed at people who feel that they can justify taking illegal drugs just because they can....

perhaps you ought to be discussing it with the OP rather than me. like i said, once you get into the good and bad of things, there are only opinions...

Miguel_Sanchez · 04-11-2005 3:46pm

The OP is answering her own questions here.

She says she took her first drink out of curiousity and then asks 'Why do people start taking coke?'. Then a few posts later she answers this. Why are you asking questions that you know the answer to.

I think that yes, people on coke are boring and I can see why you wouldn't want to hang around with them.

However you should have some level of self-restraint. If you end up in a situation where there are people taking cocaine I think it is kind stupid to go off into a big rant on them. Especially if they're aren't friends (which I take it they're not). All you should do is leave the room (or the party even) and that's that. It doesn't have to come to tears. Letting your own night be ruined by your insistence on lecturing people who by your own admittance you won't see after college seems stupid to me. Let's face it - when someone is on cocaine at a party it is the last place that they are going to listen to someone discussing why they shouldn't be taking cocaine.

I agree that yes ireland has a huge cocaine problem - a friend of mine got into a fight at a party last weekend over some harmless comment because the others in the room were coked up to their eyeballs.

But the OP's original point was about her nights being ruined and I would say - this is partly your own fault. Avoid these people or refrain from lecturing. As I said earlier, you can just leave the room and not look back.

Sifo · 04-11-2005 3:50pm

WhiteWashMan wrote:

if you are going to make comparisons, at least compare apples with apples and pears with pears.

the question put was 'what is wrong with taking cocaine'

the answer is that its illegal. yo uare not supposed to do it.
thats the black and white of the law.

if you want to talk about the moral and ethical wrongs and rights, thats a different thing altogether, but at least make the distinction in your posts.

i think the speed limits are ridiculous, but i still have to adhere to them like everyone else.

just becuase you feel that taking illegal narcotics is acceptable, does not mean that your arguments are justifiable with a bizarre comparison with fish...

but again, its an ethical debate now, and there are no right or wrong answers when all opinion is subjective.
you can only go on what society deems acceptable, what the law says is acceptable, and what you personal feel are the limits of what you accept, and everyone differs on the last issue.

Well I'm above the law so how does this effect me?

WhiteWashMan · 04-11-2005 3:53pm

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

The OP is answering her own questions here.

She says she took her first drink out of curiousity and then asks 'Why do people start taking coke?'. Then a few posts later she answers this. Why are you asking questions that you know the answer to..

you could easily say that drink is a recognised and legal substance, easily availble and often consummed in front of children. people grow up in a society where a lot of socialising is done around drink.
it would make sense that people grow up with a sense of understanding around drink.

on the other hand, cocaine is none of the above. or at least it wasnt when i was growing up, and we never ever had lines of coke for afters

WhiteWashMan · 04-11-2005 3:54pm

Sifo wrote:

Well I'm above the law so how does this effect me?

well, i would guess if you are above the law,then the law doesnt effect you, and the only thing you have to worry about is the OP's wrath and hatred of coke heads!

Miguel_Sanchez · 04-11-2005 4:01pm

WhiteWashMan wrote:

you could easily say that drink is a recognised and legal substance, easily availble and often consummed in front of children. people grow up in a society where a lot of socialising is done around drink.
it would make sense that people grow up with a sense of understanding around drink.

on the other hand, cocaine is none of the above. or at least it wasnt when i was growing up, and we never ever had lines of coke for afters

[Oooh I love a good argument on a Friday afternoon]

I never said that coke was freely available or being offered for afters. However this doesn't detract from the fact that many peopple may start using it out of curiousity. perhaps the reason why there is curiousity is because it isn't just there for the taking whenever.

Playboy · 04-11-2005 4:06pm

The OP sounds like a control freak. Get help! You have no right to lecture anybody on anything esp since you sound like you have no clue what you are talking about. Check out this site and educate yorself on drugs and their use. Then go have an educated and respectful debate or discussion with the people you have a problem with when they are sober. If you cant change their mind then respect their right as human beings to do what they will with their own body. Not everybody has the same life as you and people do things for different reasons. Try understanding those reasons b4 you judge people.

Morality and legality are not the same thing - whoever had the brainwave that drink driving is wrong because it is illegal then please get your head checked. Drink Driving is wrong because you you can potentially kill other people by doing it.

Cocaine is becoming and issue in this country just like alcohol and xtc and weed etc. The Irish would seriously want to take a long look at their own country and try and figure out why do they have to do everything to excess. What has and is missing in people's lifes in this country that causes such widespread substance abuse. The Irish are even proud of the widespread alcoholism in this country. I mean wtf.

Laguna · 04-11-2005 4:16pm

By peoples scathing attacks on the original poster, I'm assuming everyone advocates the use of cocaine and perhaps stronger CLASS A NARCOTICS?

I stand with the OP here, I had mates who started going down the coke route a few years ago (proceeding onto heroin more recently) and whilst I was dismayed at their choice and tried to explain to them why it was a bad idea, I ultimately let them on and decided to cut off from that group because, if it isn't reason enough not to do the drugs for your parents/girlfriend/boyfriend/partner and in one case of a friend, his child, no 'Mate' is going to persuade them otherwise.

My advice to the OP, let them destroy their lives in the name of the 'Craic', it's not your problem and really, it's not your place to condemn them (in the same way it wasn't mine..)

Miguel_Sanchez · 04-11-2005 4:17pm

Another point - the OP stated that people using cocaine should get educated and realise they are snorting cement and rat poison up their nose. I'm sorry but rat poison being mixed in with drugs is an urban legend. Dealers tend not to put it in cause it kills people.

If this is the sort of facts you come out with when lecturing people about drug use then I'd say people just laugh at you.

While I agree that coke is bad and a problem I think perhaps that you need a bit of education. You can't lecture anybody on a topic if your facts are erroneous.

WhiteWashMan · 04-11-2005 4:19pm

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

[Oooh I love a good argument on a Friday afternoon]

I never said that coke was freely available or being offered for afters. However this doesn't detract from the fact that many peopple may start using it out of curiousity. perhaps the reason why there is curiousity is because it isn't just there for the taking whenever.

im aware of that, im not disagreeing.
i only said that people are more willing to try alochol for the first time becuase it an accepted for of recreation, not to mention a legalised one.

coke on the other hand is illegal from a law standpoint, but is also generally deemed to be unacceptable in society.

now whether people want to argue that society should try and change that, and be more tolerant towards cocaine use, is entirely different.

but arguments that 'it makes you feel good' arent going to change the way society perceives illegal drug use.

Playboy wrote:

whoever had the brainwave that drink driving is wrong because it is illegal then please get your head checked. Drink Driving is wrong because you you can potentially kill other people by doing it.

not quite what i said. it was from the viewpoint of legality, not morality.

cocaine use can also lead to death of others as well as yourself though.
is there any difference between drink driving and coked up driving?

Miguel_Sanchez · 04-11-2005 4:21pm

Laguna wrote:

By peoples scathing attacks on the original poster, I'm assuming everyone advocates the used of cocaine?

Not necessarily. I think people are against her insistence on lecturing people on their use of cocaine while they are using it.

I think she's slightly mis-informed about cocaine herself.

This doesn't mean I advocate the use of cocaine.

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 4:28pm

Mmm only a few hours until I can consume some drugs and stay up all night partying.

Playboy · 04-11-2005 4:29pm

WhiteWashMan wrote:

not quite what i said. it was from the viewpoint of legality, not morality.

cocaine use can also lead to death of others as well as yourself though.
is there any difference between drink driving and coked up driving?

How can cocaine use lead to the death of others? Can you passively take cocaine in such excessive amounts that it can kill you. I' like to be at that party!

I didnt say anything about driving under the influence of coke. It's just as bad imo as drink driving. You cant say something is immoral becuase it is illegal. You have to look at the reasons why it is illegal to make an argument about morality.

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 4:31pm

Playboy wrote:

How can cocaine use lead to the death of others? Can you passively take cocaine in such excessive amounts that it can kill you. I' like to be at that party!

I didnt say anything about driving under the influence of coke. It's just as bad imo as drink driving. You cant say something is immoral becuase it is illegal. You have to look at the reasons why it is illegal to make an argument about morality.

I've yet to hear about a cocaine addict in Ireland. The stuff is so diluted. It's about the only drug I think is useless.

AARRRGH · 04-11-2005 4:32pm

audge wrote:

If people knew they where shoving a deadly mix of rat poison, cement mix, etc up their noses, maybe they wouldn't be so in love with the drug.

What an idiotic statement. How can someone with a brain say something so silly and inaccurate?

Drug dealers are business men, not insane psycho murderers.

Where are you getting your rat poison/cement mix total aul one bull**** fact from?

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 4:34pm

dublindude wrote:

What an idiotic statement. How can someone with a brain say something so silly and inaccurate?

Drug dealers are business men, not insane psycho murderers.

Where are you getting your rat poison/cement mix total aul one bull**** fact from?

The media obviously.

Laguna · 04-11-2005 4:44pm

Come on DublinDude.. dude!, calling drug pushers businessmen is a bit rich!, after prolonged use of any drug people tend to develop psychosis, which, sort of would turn them into insane psycho murderers! ARGH :eek:

I think this discussion has become obsolete, many times on boards have I witnessed this, where the original discussion has been lost in favour of character analysing the OP. Yeah, Audge has an opinion, she's entitled to it, she may come across forthright in her view respective to drugs, but does this not demonstrate that she cares about her mates in the class who have resorted to snorting the naughty sherbert up their nostrils?.

I don't get a hint of a high and mighty attitude off her posts, more dimay at the concept of the use of ILLEGAL drugs. Some people on seem to argue a point simply because it is their point, irrespective of if they know the moral implications of what they are saying.

Laguna · 04-11-2005 4:47pm

Ag marbh wrote:

I've yet to hear about a cocaine addict in Ireland. The stuff is so diluted. It's about the only drug I think is useless.

Do you think addicts get regular prime time spots on the Gerry Ryan show or something?, no, usually when someone gets to a state of drug addiction they usually end up dying through overdose, hence why you don't hear about them.

When Ireland is trumpeted as a great place to invest money/live etc. do you really think the media is going to be covering stories on the rise of hard drug use?

Zombrex · 04-11-2005 4:50pm

dublindude wrote:

Where are you getting your rat poison/cement mix total aul one bull**** fact from?

It has happened, thought it is rare. Strychnine or arsenic are more likely to be mixed with heroin than cocaine, though there have been cases in America where they have been found in cocaine.

Mostly cocaine is mixed with lactose (milk powder) or lidocaine (a local anesthetic) to "stretch" the cocaine as these are hard to differentate from the real thing (and are naturally much much cheaper and easier to get a hold of) Taking cocaine with lidocaine can cause seizures, hallucinations and, in some cases, death.

drunkenfool · 04-11-2005 4:50pm

go back to bed audge, stop whining. I dont like it when people get drunk and start fights be abusive, get fat, puke everywhere, beat their wives, rape women, commit public order offences. people on drugs (in most cases) are alot more in control of themselves then with alcohol.

pdunno · 04-11-2005 4:52pm

Ag marbh wrote:

I've yet to hear about a cocaine addict in Ireland. The stuff is so diluted. It's about the only drug I think is useless.

I personally know someone who became addicted to coke. Started off taking the drug recreationally, escalated untill he couldn't get through the day without it - this included taking it in work. Ended up getting fired (worked in a bank) and having to check into rehab. Came out clean, within a few weeks fwas back in rehab. The usually storey, lying and stealing from friends and family to feed his habit. Eventually aliented all his mates. This is not bull****.

However I do also know more people who are alcoholics and this addiction is every bit as bad.

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 4:54pm

pdunno wrote:

I personally know someone who became addicted to coke. Started off taking the drug recreationally, escalated untill he couldn't get through the day without it - this included taking it in work. Ended up getting fired (worked in a bank) and having to check into rehab. Came out clean, within a few weeks fwas back in rehab. The usually storey, lying and stealing from friends and family to feed his habit. Eventually aliented all his mates. This is not bull****.

However I do also know more people who are alcoholics and this addiction is every bit as bad.

Well there's my first example

Laguna · 04-11-2005 4:56pm

drunkenfool wrote:

people on drugs (in most cases) are alot more in control of themselves then with alcohol.

What are you basing this on?

I've seen people under the effects of both and I myself have been tipsy from drink, I don't think I've ever mistaken (like a chap I know who took coke/pills) a bartender for a clown in full face paint or been convinced that a bus going down the road was a chariot to take him back to Rome. Drugs like Coke/Pills bring on the onset of hallucinations as in a 'Stimulant', alcohol dehabilitates you and your senses as in a 'Depressant'.

AARRRGH · 04-11-2005 5:03pm

pdunno wrote:

I personally know someone who became addicted to coke. Started off taking the drug recreationally, escalated untill he couldn't get through the day without it - this included taking it in work. Ended up getting fired (worked in a bank) and having to check into rehab. Came out clean, within a few weeks fwas back in rehab. The usually storey, lying and stealing from friends and family to feed his habit. Eventually aliented all his mates. This is not bull****.

However I do also know more people who are alcoholics and this addiction is every bit as bad.

I don't think the problem is coke: he's obviously a total retard.

Wicknight wrote:

It has happened, thought it is rare. Strychnine or arsenic are more likely to be mixed with heroin than cocaine, though there have been cases in America where they have been found in cocaine.

Perhaps, but I am sure you are more likely to find them in normal food than drugs. And I don't avoid bread because someone poisoned bread once.

Laguna wrote:

Come on DublinDude.. dude!, calling drug pushers businessmen is a bit rich!

Well they only sell drugs to make money, so that makes them business men in my book!!

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 5:06pm

Laguna wrote:

What are you basing this on?

I've seen people under the effects of both and I myself have been tipsy from drink, I don't think I've ever mistaken (like a chap I know who took coke/pills) a bartender for a clown in full face paint or been convinced that a bus going down the road was a chariot to take him back to Rome. Drugs like Coke/Pills bring on the onset of hallucinations as in a 'Stimulant', alcohol dehabilitates you and your senses as in a 'Depressant'.

Your friend sounds like an attention seeker. MDMA only in high doses will make someone look twice at some things or colours may appear a bit distorted. I've never even had a full blown hallucination like that on lsd or mushrooms.
I've never in my life heard of someone tripping on coke either.

pdunno · 04-11-2005 5:07pm

dublindude wrote:

I don't think the problem is coke: he's obviously a total retard.

Yeah he is a total retard, but he was addicted to coke. And he would've been less of a retard if he never took coke

Zombrex · 04-11-2005 5:07pm

drunkenfool wrote:

people on drugs (in most cases) are alot more in control of themselves then with alcohol.

Er, not really ... if you look at the amount of drink related crime compared to the amount of people who actually drink and then look at the amount of drug related crime compared to the amount of people who take drugs I think you will find that a much higher precentage of drug takers are involved in crime, especially serious crime, than drink takers

dahooligan · 04-11-2005 5:08pm

dublindude wrote:

What an idiotic statement. How can someone with a brain say something so silly and inaccurate?

Drug dealers are business men, not insane psycho murderers.

Where are you getting your rat poison/cement mix total aul one bull**** fact from?

Why not say it? It might be a teeny tiny bit ott but when was the last time you stood over a chemist's shoulder watching him actually making up a pile of the white stuff? And they mightn't be insane psycho murderers, but they are still praying on the weak in society... but then so are the alchohol makers.

Around and around we go with this argument.

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 5:09pm

Wicknight wrote:

Er, not really ... if you look at the amount of drink related crime compared to the amount of people who actually drink and then look at the amount of drug related crime compared to the amount of people who take drugs I think you will find that a much higher precentage of drug takers are involved in crime, especially serious crime, than drink takers

Well this crime isnt because the drug makes people act that way. I think you'll find that drug related crimes are committed by full blown addicts desperate to get money for the habit.

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 5:11pm

dahooligan wrote:

Why not say it? It might be a teeny tiny bit ott but when was the last time you stood over a chemist's shoulder watching him actually making up a pile of the white stuff? And they mightn't be insane psycho murderers, but they are still praying on the weak in society... but then so are the alchohol makers.

Around and around we go with this argument.

How can you label drug takers "weak in society". 90% of drug takers are in jobs and a hell of alot of professional's take drugs.

Brother A · 04-11-2005 5:12pm

The moral argument, my answer, for what its worth, to the question 'why is doing cocaine wrong' :

Ethically, or morally speaking, the heart of Why it is wrong, I would say, is Irresponsibility.
I would see two types of this: 1.social and 2.personal

.SOCIAL IRRESPONSIBILITY

-short term behaviour: when on the drug, people often upset others
and act like jerks etc.. This is irresponsible as it upsets
and disturbs those around you, friends & family & strangers

-health effects:
i. Doing coke puts the user at an unknown, and generally
uncontrollable, risk of doing damage to their physical or mental
health --- deliberately and directly, and for their own personal
pleasure only
ii.doing coke puts the user yourself at similar risk of addiction
> Health Effects i & ii point to irresponsibility in relation to friends,
family & society. <

-law: As mentioned in the thread, and as most people would know,
using cocaine breaks the law......a crime.
A crime is often thought of as morally 'wrong' in itself.
irresponsibility here relates to disrupting the contract that
holds a society together.

-crime: As everyone will generally acknowledge, using Cocaine
lines the pockets of criminals, organised or otherwise -
which is usually not considered a good thing.

.PERSONAL IRRESPONSIBILITY
At other times &/or places, it might be the generally accepted view that the strictly 'personal' aspects of body/mind abuse involved here would in themselves be 'wrong'
Today in this society though, it seems people generally accept what one person does so long as it affects no other person.
And perhaps this is as it should be, BUT, I feel we should be wary that
'accept' does not turn to 'ignore' in this context.

The above irresponsibilities apply to the actual abuser of coke, and many of
the same points could of course be applied to those who encourage or condone its use.However, perhaps the charge of social irresponsibility could also be levelled at those who, knowing of its significant negative side, see or hear of the drug being used, but yet say nothing.

AARRRGH · 04-11-2005 5:14pm

I hate the way people always focus on the negatives of drugs. To be fair, it should be a balanced view. Everything has good and bad points.

Zombrex · 04-11-2005 5:15pm

dublindude wrote:

Perhaps, but I am sure you are more likely to find them in normal food than drugs.

What

No you aren't.

Drug dealers mix cocaine with these things on purpose to make money, they aren't physco killers, in fact they aren't thinking about the effects at all, they care about the money they can make.

I have no idea where you got the idea that drug dealers are nice people at heart, but I think you are being a tad niave. Do you actually believe drug dealers follow health and safety regulations when producing drugs? Are you serious?

American studies have found that at least 5-10% of ALL cocaine (meaning if you have taken cocaine 10 times odds are at least once it has been mixed with somethign not very nice) is mixed with a substance such as lidocaine, which can be extremely damaging, especially when consumed with cocaine (ironically enough)

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 5:15pm

Brother A wrote:

The moral argument, my answer, for what its worth, to the question 'why is doing cocaine wrong' :

Ethically, or morally speaking, the heart of Why it is wrong, I would say, is Irresponsibility.
I would see two types of this: 1.social and 2.personal

.SOCIAL IRRESPONSIBILITY

-short term behaviour: when on the drug, people often upset others
and act like jerks etc.. This is irresponsible as it upsets
and disturbs those around you, friends & family & strangers

I and most people I know who take the drug could snort 100 euro's worth and sit without bothering any of the above mentioned. Infact I think the conversation would be more interesting and contribution would be alot better than if we drank 100 euro's worth.

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 5:17pm

Wicknight wrote:

What No you aren't.

Drug dealers mix cocaine with these things on purpose to make money, they aren't physco killers, in fact they aren't thinking about the effects at all, they care about the money they can make.

I have no idea where you got the idea that drug dealers are nice people at heart, but I think you are being a tad niave. Do you actually believe drug dealers follow health and safety regulations when producing drugs? Are you serious?

American studies have found that at least 5-10% of ALL cocaine (meaning if you have taken cocaine 10 times odds are at least once it has been mixed with somethign not very nice) is mixed with a substance such as lidocaine, which can be extremely damaging, especially when consumed with cocaine (ironically enough)

I personally have a great interest in this subject. I'd like to know a source from which those percentages came from. To me you sound like someone who is pulling figures out of the air after reading too many media stories.

AARRRGH · 04-11-2005 5:19pm

Wicknight wrote:

What No you aren't.

Drug dealers mix cocaine with these things on purpose to make money, they aren't physco killers, in fact they aren't thinking about the effects at all, they care about the money they can make.

I have no idea where you got the idea that drug dealers are nice people at heart, but I think you are being a tad niave. Do you actually believe drug dealers follow health and safety regulations when producing drugs? Are you serious?

American studies have found that at least 5-10% of ALL cocaine (meaning if you have taken cocaine 10 times odds are at least once it has been mixed with somethign not very nice) is mixed with a substance such as lidocaine, which can be extremely damaging, especially when consumed with cocaine (ironically enough)

Drug dealers don't mix their drugs with rat poison/cement mix. Where are you getting this BS from?

One thing someone can never call me is niave. I know a few drug dealers (not heroin.) They are people like you and me. They want to make a bit of money doing something which they feel is fine (they take the drugs themselves and don't see any problem with it/the people who buy the drugs are choosing to buy them.)

Drug producers are professional. They know bad drugs are bad for business. They try to make the drugs correctly.

I can't comment on the lidocaine statment as I know nothing about that. But I assure you if you studied everything we eat, you'd find some of the ingredients are bad for you.

dahooligan · 04-11-2005 5:24pm

Ag marbh wrote:

How can you label drug takers "weak in society". 90% of drug takers are in jobs and a hell of alot of professional's take drugs.

For what purpose? Read back along the thread and you'll see the main reason for apparently taking coke is to seem more out going, to improve self confidence. I don't mean weak as in unable to fend for one's self, but weak as in easily led.

Watch and see how much I get attacked now...

Laguna · 04-11-2005 5:26pm

I'll give you that DublinDude, most of the food we eat nowadays is laced with additives, foreign bodies (such as fish oil in digestive biscuits.. ew) and other undesired GM ingredients.

I still feel that taking drugs is wrong and at the crux of the matter, illegal. I think people can put any hat on it/view from a liberal perspective, but if something is illegal, it's you know.... illegal, end of story.

AARRRGH · 04-11-2005 5:26pm

dahooligan wrote:

For what purpose? Read back along the thread and you'll see the main reason for apparently taking coke is to seem more out going, to improve self confidence. I don't mean weak as in unable to fend for one's self, but weak as in easily led.

Watch and see how much I get attacked now...

Same argument appies to alcohol.

The Heineken CEO is a scumbag!!!

dahooligan · 04-11-2005 5:36pm

dublindude wrote:

The Heineken CEO is a scumbag!!!

Not gonna disagree with you there, so what its breaking down to is a series of levels of acceptance..

Ag marbh · 04-11-2005 5:37pm

dahooligan wrote:

For what purpose? Read back along the thread and you'll see the main reason for apparently taking coke is to seem more out going, to improve self confidence. I don't mean weak as in unable to fend for one's self, but weak as in easily led.

Watch and see how much I get attacked now...

Thats someone elses personal experience. I myself or my friends dont do it to be outgoing. Some people just enjoy taking it the same way some people enjoy having a few drinks.

Canis Lupus · 04-11-2005 5:44pm

I tend to find in these arguments that people who are the most passionate anti drugs are often the most ill informed repeating only the stuff they read/see in the media and tv soaps. (bar pdunno, I accept your pm)

I have nevered tried cocaine, as previously stated I get my kicks from drink and weed BUT MY EXPERIENCES with my friends who take coke and pills is that they enjoy themselves. They don't take coke/pills and turn into granny robbing thieves. They don't and haven't develop(ed) mental problems. They don't/haven't alienate(d) themselves from the people around them and they don't act like jerks. They personally do not cause society to crumble when they take these drugs.

These people all have decent jobs. They arrive on time in general everyday. They treat the people around them in both work and outside of work as they themselves would expect to be treated.

The point I'm making is all the serious anti drugs people up above this post don't seem to realise is that IN MODERATION there is nothing wrong about taking cocaine bar it's legality.

WhiteWashMan · 04-11-2005 5:47pm

Playboy wrote:

How can cocaine use lead to the death of others? Can you passively take cocaine in such excessive amounts that it can kill you. I' like to be at that party!
.

i mentioned drink driving and drugged driving, as opposed to drink driving and using coke.

drink on its own wont kill you if youre drunk, in the same way that drugs wont. obvioulsy there are limits invovled.

Playboy wrote:

I didnt say anything about driving under the influence of coke. It's just as bad imo as drink driving. You cant say something is immoral becuase it is illegal. You have to look at the reasons why it is illegal to make an argument about morality.

youre mixing up comments made to someone else about two different things.

i said in the eyes of the law, using cocaine is wrong, as is drink driving.

i said you could argue the morality of cocaine all day, its all subjective. i never said anything about the morality of drink driving.

i never made any connection between illegality and morality.

Great big bunch of coke heads!!

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