The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

andym1 · 13-03-2013 1:03pm #1

A friend working in RTE tells me the LW service based in Co Meath will cease this year. With the internet and smartphones its days are numbered plus I hear it is expensive to run power etc.
I usually go to France in the summer and always got a half decent signal on LW

mike65 · 13-03-2013 1:14pm

Feck it. Always handy to have. Hmmm, just had a thought - rebroadcast BBC radio 5 live via a sat link

withless · 13-03-2013 1:53pm

When will DAB be done properly with a whole bunch of stations in this stupid country?

Paul Jon · 13-03-2013 2:58pm

Troll thread fail. Lw 252 is NOT closing down.

Paul Jon · 13-03-2013 3:00pm

withless wrote: »

When will DAB be done properly with a whole bunch of stations in this stupid country?

why would this country bother with dab now? It is 20 years out of date now and has been a disaster in the uk.

Trick of the Tail · 13-03-2013 3:24pm

Its not 20 years out of date at all, with DAB+ its up to date and quite spectrum efficient. It's not a 'disaster' in the UK, but didn't take off as much as it should because the multiplex companies nstupidly charge enormous money for carriage.

Instead of promoting it as a replacement for FM, they should have pushed it as an alternative, with more diversity and choice.

Which is what should happen here. DAB is the ideal medium for smaller-business-model stations, specialist content, niche audiences etc - which the BAI are legally obliged to be promoting, but have not thus far.

A.

andym1 · 13-03-2013 4:49pm

Paul Jon wrote: »

Troll thread fail. Lw 252 is NOT closing down.

He works there as an Engineer, not a troll, Why does somebodys fear extract a troll fear ? He works on transmission and LW IS closing down !

Rock Solid · 13-03-2013 4:49pm

The DAB signal in Tallaght and Saggart is terrible, has been rather weak since Christmas, many DAB stations breaking up or showing OFFAIR on the digital display, the DAB signal for Dublin seems to be coming from Three Rock and does not cover the city or county, its not worth having a DAB radio unless your near the transmitter or have a clear line to your local mast, I dont use my DAB anymore and have reverted to FM and web services. I listen to 252LW when down the country where RTE is weak.

twinklerunner · 13-03-2013 8:49pm

andym1 wrote: »

A friend working in RTE tells me the LW service based in Co Meath will cease this year. With the internet and smartphones its days are numbered plus I hear it is expensive to run power etc.
I usually go to France in the summer and always got a half decent signal on LW

I wonder why RTE don't promote the fact that all their radio stations are available on Saorview - you never hear it announced on radio. At the top of the hour, BBC 5 Live announces that it's on digital tv, digital radio etc

Fuzzy Clam · 14-03-2013 12:47am

Back on topic, this has been on the cards for years. Yes, there will be a few, but very few, complaints. Probably mostly from people who don't actually listen to LW but believe that the service should continue to serve those who can't receive FM, i.e Irish living in the UK. I've heard those arguements before (yawn).
As an alternative to FM, it is unsubstainable. As the old saying in radio goes, it would be cheaper to stick a CD of the programs in the post to every listener.

It would be a pity to see 252 as a facility go. I'm convinced, with the right programing, it could generate more money that it currenty does. Maybe not enough to cover all costs, but as it is, it's a money pit.

Bummer1234 · 14-03-2013 5:37pm

Bring back atlantic 252!!!

IrishHomer · 15-03-2013 11:46am

Bummer1234 wrote: »

Bring back atlantic 252!!!

I'm originally from the area where the mast was erected, locals will rejoice if the antenna comes down, the was serious opposition to it ever going up, I used to listen to 252 in the local garage shop as the pirates had just been shut down and I was frowned on and told to turn off that station by local punters

Trick of the Tail · 15-03-2013 7:50pm

Oh I'm sure they're all used to it now!

Besides, I'd doubt it'll be taken down. A tower of that size, with planning permission, is a great asset these days - it's exceedingly difficult to get permission to put them up now.

A.

mike65 · 15-03-2013 8:03pm

In Clarkstown during the Atlantic 252 era you could probably listen to the radio on your pots and pans.

Infoanon · 15-03-2013 8:14pm

How many split programmes are carried on the LW service now a days ?

The Religious programs on a Sunday come to mind - there could be considerable fall out if the 252 service ends amongst listeners in that regard.

galtee boy · 15-03-2013 10:03pm

I have a brother living in London who listens to it everyday on the radio in his work van, reception is quite good. He will be disappointed if this is true. How many more are like him around the UK ? Internet radio isn't an option in a van or car. Typical of Rte and this country. You don't see the BBC closing down medium wave or long wave, even though Five Live and Radio 4 LW are available on DAB, Internet , Satellite and Digital TV !

Fuzzy Clam · 15-03-2013 11:22pm

galtee boy wrote: »

I have a brother living in London who listens to it everyday on the radio in his work van, reception is quite good. He will be disappointed if this is true. How many more are like him around the UK ? Internet radio isn't an option in a van or car. Typical of Rte and this country. You don't see the BBC closing down medium wave or long wave, even though Five Live and Radio 4 LW are available on DAB, Internet , Satellite and Digital TV !

I'm surprised he finds it good in London. Because of the terrain, i.e. a big set of hillls between here and there, reception has always been poor, even in the days of Atlantic 252 which was higher power.
\BBC have already looked into closing down their local MW services. They conducted a series of temparary MW closures last year to gauge audience reaction. In some cases I believe no more than a handful of complaints were recieved. They've also stated that when the existing supply of valves for the LW tranmmiters run out, that service will also be discontinued.

L1011 · 15-03-2013 11:23pm

The power needs are the only reason they'd even consider it, its not like the BBC LW service where they can't justify the cost of a new transmitter and when spares run out, its gone. RTE installed a brand new transmitter within the last decade.

Can't see this happening any time soon, particularly not this year when they're trying to encourage the expat community to come here and spend money; not piss them off even more.

galtee boy · 15-03-2013 11:55pm

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I'm surprised he finds it good in London. Because of the terrain, i.e. a big set of hillls between here and there, reception has always been poor, even in the days of Atlantic 252 which was higher power.
\BBC have already looked into closing down their local MW services. They conducted a series of temparary MW closures last year to gauge audience reaction. In some cases I believe no more than a handful of complaints were recieved. They've also stated that when the existing supply of valves for the LW tranmmiters run out, that service will also be discontinued.

I've been there with him and reception is very listenable , it's not crystal clear by any means, but is good enough, except at night, when it gets cremated by stations from North Africa and elsewhere .

Fuzzy Clam · 16-03-2013 12:35am

MYOB wrote: »

Can't see this happening any time soon, particularly not this year when they're trying to encourage the expat community to come here and spend money; not piss them off even more.

Well I'm going to stick my neck out and say you're wrong. I do believe 252 will end this year. As I said in an a previous post, it's been on the cards for years.

Fuzzy Clam · 16-03-2013 12:38am

galtee boy wrote: »

I've been there with him and reception is very listenable , it's not crystal clear by any means, but is good enough, except at night, when it gets cremated by stations from North Africa and elsewhere .

Ok. It still doesn't pay for itself if theres only a few listeners to it.

galtee boy · 16-03-2013 10:55am

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Ok. It still doesn't pay for itself if theres only a few listeners to it.

By the way, at his house in South West London, he has a little iPod FM transmitter connected to a spare Freesat box and it retransmits RTE radio on FM in stereo, crystal clear around the house and well into the garden. I've done the same here for BBC Radio Five Live ( particularly for the sports and live football commentaries, which are blocked on the internet version ). The signal strength on those little iPod transmitters is very good, even one of my neighbours across the road, about 75m at least, picks it up clearly !

Greenman · 16-03-2013 4:10pm

I listen 5 days a week in my truck here in Belgium when I'm on my breaks. I like it alot and much more reliable than RTE radio on mobile internet who don't have any 24 or 32kbps streams:mad::mad::mad: .

I hope it stays.

I was amazed when there wasn't a beep when 567 was closed down.

Conway635 · 17-03-2013 7:28pm

I was in the area today, and decided to do a drive past and get some pics for a friend in the UK who has been asking me if the rumors of closure (from here) are true.

Pics are online here:

http://steveconway.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/lw-252-tower-ireland-pics/

I notice there is a planning application which, as well as retention of some existing modifications, seeks permission to paint the top 84m of mast in red and white bands, and to replace the existing warning light system.

So they do seem to still want to retain the tower, if they are going to do work on it.

C635

padd b1975 · 18-03-2013 12:03am

Infoanon wrote: »

How many split programmes are carried on the LW service now a days ?

The Religious programs on a Sunday come to mind - there could be considerable fall out if the 252 service ends amongst listeners in that regard.

There was extended coverage of Cheltenham during the past week on 252, it started at 1pm every day and right through until after the last race.

Sometimes there will be coverage of an international soccer match.

I remember back in 2006, there was fantastic coverage of the Ryder Cup on 252 as well.

23-03-2013 12:21pm

I'm not so sure about this myself. If so, then RTE have wasted a massive amount of money on their MW and LW sites. They temporarily closed MW to replace the mast insulators, then permanently closed the MW service about 3-4 years later. At Summerhill they replaced the transmitters with a DRM capable, but weaker, rig but only ever used DRM in late night testing. So the power is only a little over half of what it was in the Atlantic 252 days.

I know someone in Irish Rail who has told me a few porkies over the years so I wouldn't believe everything I hear from staff.

I'm also dubious of the BBC's tales about the Droitwich site. The TX was only replaced in 1985 so it's not that old. I think it's two 250kW Marconi units.

MOONBABY240 · 23-04-2013 6:50pm

I'm really glad if it's true that its closing down, such a waste of money for a handful of listeners. people of all ages in this day in age should be able to use the tunein app on a smartphone

23-04-2013 6:55pm

MOONBABY240 wrote: »

I'm really glad if it's true that its closing down, such a waste of money for a handful of listeners. people of all ages in this day in age should be able to use the tunein app on a smartphone

If you're in a good signal area, yes. However I know of several places with no 3G where you'd struggle to get stable streaming.

mike65 · 23-04-2013 8:37pm

MOONBABY240 wrote: »

I'm really glad if it's true that its closing down, such a waste of money for a handful of listeners. people of all ages in this day in age should be able to use the tunein app on a smartphone

They have just been spending money on maintenance, they are not closing it down.

cml387 · 23-04-2013 10:14pm

MOONBABY240 wrote: »

I'm really glad if it's true that its closing down, such a waste of money for a handful of listeners. people of all ages in this day in age should be able to use the tunein app on a smartphone

I presume this is a joke.

The 252 signal is free, as opposed to the rental ripoff prices you are paying 3g providers.

The 198kHz signal is not going anywhere either in the short term, it being part of Britain's nuclear submarine comms system.

Fuzzy Clam · 23-04-2013 11:06pm

mike65 wrote: »

They have just been spending money on maintenance, they are not closing it down.

Says you. Have you a souce?

You obviously missed my post in another thread. Maintainence has to be carried out on the mast regardless whether the transmitter is or isn't going to be shut down.

MOONBABY240 · 23-04-2013 11:12pm

Fuzzy u sound like a man with some inside imfomation about this close down

23-04-2013 11:18pm

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

You obviously missed my post in another thread. Maintainence has to be carried out on the mast regardless whether the transmitter is or isn't going to be shut down.

Yeah, that's what happened with the old 647kHz BBC Radio 3 MW mast at Dodford. It was mothballed for about 7 years after the frequency changes in 1978 but when it became necessary to perform maintenance on the mast, they instead decided to demolish it.

desbrook · 23-04-2013 11:26pm

My poor 1936 Philips valve radio ! It really enjoys the 252 signal ... for now

Fuzzy Clam · 23-04-2013 11:43pm

Karsini wrote: »

Yeah, that's what happened with the old 647kHz BBC Radio 3 MW mast at Dodford. It was mothballed for about 7 years after the frequency changes in 1978 but when it became necessary to perform maintenance on the mast, they instead decided to demolish it.

Are you saying that in those 7 years they didn't replace a single aviation light?
Or in those 7 years, no inspection of the structial integrity of the mast was carried out? Something that, in the case of the mast being the "live" element, would require the transmitter to be switched off.

Athlone still needed to be maintained even though transmissions had creased. The same goes for Tullamore.

23-04-2013 11:46pm

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Are you saying that in those 7 years they didn't replace a single aviation light?
Or in those 7 years, no inspection of the structial integrity of the mast was carried out? Something that, in the case of the mast being the "live" element, would require the transmitter to be switched off.

Athlone still needed to be maintained even though transmissions had creased. The same goes for Tullamore.

I've no idea, don't know the exact ins and outs.

Antenna · 25-04-2013 7:03pm

To what extent is Long Wave coverage being left out on the radios in new cars ??

The other day I tried out the radio in someone's (new) Opel Insignia. This car has a sound system called Navi600 with FM and AM radio bands. The AM mode does NOT incorporate LW, it is MW (531kHz-1602kHz) only.

See attached pictures, though its interesting you can put this 'Navi 600' Opel radio into a manual tuning mode with an analogue like tuning dial appearing in the display and you can manually tune along the band without annoying muting (as on other radios), great for finding stations too weak to be found on Search tuning.

mike65 · 25-04-2013 7:40pm

I'd say its been years since a new car had LW.

Declan A Walsh · 25-04-2013 8:56pm

mike65 wrote: »

I'd say its been years since a new car had LW.

That depends on your definition of "years"! The 2007 Nissan Note has LW on its radio bands.

mike65 · 25-04-2013 10:57pm

Well that's 6 years ago! In car terms a generation and a half.

Nonoperational · 25-04-2013 11:08pm

2005 VWs have no LW.

Mr. Rabbit · 26-04-2013 1:45am

I have a 2011 Toyota Verso. No longwave.

Previous model did have it.

July Rain · 27-11-2013 7:39pm

This turned out to be a big fat Lie

shaunandelly · 16-10-2014 7:45am

This turned out not to be a big fat lie.

Mr. Rabbit · 18-10-2014 1:02am

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I have a 2011 Toyota Verso. No longwave.

Previous model did have it.

Same here.

stephenireland · 19-10-2014 3:34pm

Look the solution is RTE digital nationwide - how much would it cost and how long would it take?

desbrook · 20-10-2014 11:08pm

stephenireland wrote: »

Look the solution is RTE digital nationwide - how much would it cost and how long would it take?

FM is more reliable than DAB when you are on the move imho!!

savertelw252 · 20-09-2016 5:48pm

RTE are SILL planning to cut off the elderly, the lonely, the sick and the isolated, a disgusting attack on our diaspora and on rural Ireland. WE MOST STOP THIS. We are planning a protest outside RTE Donnybrook on Monday October 31st at 2.52pm
Please follow us on twitter or Facebook to help #savertelw252

Mod warning post 235 by Nody wrote:

Mod:
Ok people; this thread is generating numerous claims/reported posts at an almost hourly rate (from both sides of the argument) currently. We've taken a light approach on modding in this thread to let people argue it as there's quite a bit of passion on the topic rather than lock it but the number of personal attacks and passive aggressive tone really need to be tuned down a few notches or this thread will end up locked. Hence going forward please focus on the topic rather than the poster(s) of said topic or we'll have to reconsider the overall stance on this thread.

irishgrover · 20-09-2016 5:50pm

if you went to the bother of registering to post this, it would be nice to if you went the extra inch and explained what the hell you are talking about :-)

SEPT 23 1989 · 20-09-2016 6:21pm

Longwave?

lertsnim · 20-09-2016 7:00pm

How many people in Ireland listen to Radio 1 on long wave?

The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

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