Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

martingriff · 06-07-2017 11:45am

First of all tailgater 100% in the wrong and like you I like to see the whole car in my mirror with a small bit of space before I move in.

But just to get all the speculation out of the way when you were getting ready to move back in had you the indicator on.

Now the use or rather lack of use of the indicator could fill a thread of it own.

siobhan08 · 06-07-2017 11:47am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Cut the nit picking. The OP didn't come here to expect a pat on the back, or to have their driving glorified. They wanted to understand if madness is expected on the M50.

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt

martingriff wrote: »

First of all tailgater 100% in the wrong and like you I like to see the whole car in my mirror with a small bit of space before I move in.

But just to get all the speculation out of the way when you were getting ready to move back in had you the indicator on.

Now the use or rather lack of use of the indicator could fill a thread of it own.

No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.

That's how I was taught to drive

Check mirrors
Signal
Then move

dunleakelleher · 06-07-2017 11:49am

Swanner wrote: »

This story doesn't add up..

the story add up fine,
she overtook and delayed in the outside lane to piss the car behind off.
but it backfired that person just moved on (in more ways that one) And instead of pissing him/her off it's the OP that clearly feels violated and wronged. so much so she takes to the interwed for validation of her actions (or lack of)
do what the "undertaker" did and move on. let it go. life is too short to try and police everybody who used the road.

First Up · 06-07-2017 11:51am

siobhan08 wrote:

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt

Obviously not the M50 as you described the incident at a Toll Plaza.

After most such Plazas there is a few hundred meters of unmarked road which allows time for traffic to find the lane appropriate to their speed and other traffic. Was this the case?

GreeBo · 06-07-2017 11:53am

siobhan08 wrote: »

So been working in Dublin for the first time the last week, so I have been up and down the motorways. I've really noticed how fond drivers are of tailgating other drivers and undercutting them if they don't move in fast enough.

Happened to me twice and seen it happen to a few other drivers.

The two drivers who did it do me both tried to get in front of me when coming up to the express lane at the toll by moving over early and going over the white lines at the very start of the lane while I waiting until the arrow that directs you to move over.

After the toll I stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a few other cars and both were so far up my back that If I braked suddenly It would have caused a serious crash. I was going a good bit over the speed limit and it still wasn't good enough for them.

When I was finished overtaking and intended to move over they didn't give me a chance and just flew up on my inside. Only saw them when I looked in my wing mirror to check the distance from the car I had just overtaken before starting to move over.

One was a van and other was car, the van in particular was going so fast I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180km when they went by me. They would have killed themselves or somebody else going the speeds they were if they crashed.

Is this a common occurance around commuting time?

Was shocked at the risks drivers took simply becase they were impatient.

OP, was there room for you to pull in before you had overtaken all of the cars you wanted to?

Just because you are overtaking, doesnt mean that you can stay in the outer lane holding up other traffic.
If there is space, then you should pull in, let the faster traffic pass you and then pull out and continue your maneuver.

If not then I agree with the others than indicating while you wait to pull back in is probably the safer method, none of which excuses the lads jumping up your inside.

martingriff · 06-07-2017 12:00pm

siobhan08 wrote: »

Dravokivich wrote: »

Cut the nit picking. The OP didn't come here to expect a pat on the back, or to have their driving glorified. They wanted to understand if madness is expected on the M50.

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt

martingriff wrote: »

First of all tailgater 100% in the wrong and like you I like to see the whole car in my mirror with a small bit of space before I move in.

But just to get all the speculation out of the way when you were getting ready to move back in had you the indicator on.

Now the use or rather lack of use of the indicator could fill a thread of it own.

No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.

That's how I was taught to drive

Check mirrors
Signal
Then move

But the signal is to signify to people you are about to perform an action not doing it now. Going a bit of topic but if you are taking a turn on a road (Not at light) would you indicate to show your intent to make the turn. Same for moving in on a overtaking manover. Should have it on as you are passing the car.

Regardless of this they were still found a stupid dangerous thing

First Up · 06-07-2017 12:05pm

martingriff wrote:

No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.

That's how I was taught to drive

Were you taught how to drive on a two/three lane motorway?

siobhan08 · 06-07-2017 12:08pm

dunleakelleher wrote: »

the story add up fine,
she overtook and delayed in the outside lane to piss the car behind off.
but it backfired that person just moved on (in more ways that one) And instead of pissing him/her off it's the OP that clearly feels violated and wronged. so much so she takes to the interwed for validation of her actions (or lack of)
do what the "undertaker" did and move on. let it go. life is too short to try and police everybody who used the road.

Now your talking BS. I haven't been a regular everyday user of the motorways around commuter time until this week and noticed the carry on of some drivers and came here to find out if this was a regular occurance on Irish motorways. Now that I have found out it is. It explains the prevalence of accidents you do hear about.

First Up wrote: »

Obviously not the M50 as you described the incident at a Toll Plaza.

After most such Plazas there is a few hundred meters of unmarked road which allows time for traffic to find the lane appropriate to their speed and other traffic. Was this the case?

Yeah that is the case. I stayed right to get by the vehicles on my left who were building up their speed after stopping for the toll and other cars that were moving slower that I was.

First Up · 06-07-2017 12:14pm

siobhan08 wrote:

Yeah that is the case. I stayed right to get by the vehicles on my left who were building up their speed after stopping for the toll and other cars that were moving slower that I was.

The guy behind you was obviously an impatient a-hole but the area after a Toll Plaza is not the place to be overtaking. It is deliberately wide enough to accomodate cars using all the toll booths (and express lane). In that area you just take your turn to feed back into 2-3 lanes and then resume normal driving.

siobhan08 · 06-07-2017 12:16pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

That wasn't the first time I've said that. The OP's perception is not overly reputable. I agree with everyone that's questioning how they "estimated" the other guy did 180 to pass them. There is no way the OP could have been doing 150 and then the Van shot to 180 to go by in a matter of moments. No matter how new that van is, it's not a sports car. It's why I don't see them to be relevant. There isn't a proper gauge on what they were actually doing. And the same set of manouvres would have happened regardless.

Like I have said the 180 was a guess going by fast he dusted me and dissappeared out of sight.

First Up wrote: »

Were you taught how to drive on a two/three lane motorway?

No I wasn't because you can't drive in them as a learner driver. I've been driving on them since the day after I've passed my test and I've never seen the carry on I've seen this time. My motorway experience includes some of the busiest motorways in America and The UK

Zubeneschamali · 06-07-2017 12:17pm

dev100 wrote: »

So your saying I can't go faster than a car which is on the outside of me ?

I am saying it is illegal. Here is the law:

(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.

(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—

(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,

(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

TherapyBoy · 06-07-2017 12:20pm

Siobhan, you did nothing wrong.

However, if you find yourself in this situation again, using your indicator a little earlier than normal will tell the tailgater that you intend to move out of their way. If there's a line of cars, when you are level (or even just approaching the last car) put on your indicator & pull in when you've passed said car.

First Up · 06-07-2017 12:22pm

Zubeneschamali wrote:

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Which is the bit that is open to interpretation. If the middle lane is full of cars chugging along because a muppet in a white van is holding everyone up and the left lane is moving freely, then its reasonable to say that (c) applies.

Zubeneschamali · 06-07-2017 12:28pm

First Up wrote: »

Which is the bit that is open to interpretation. If the middle lane is full of cars chugging along because a muppet in a white van is holding everyone up and the left lane is moving freely, then its reasonable to say that (c) applies.

Good luck explaining to a judge that you think driving at the limit is slow-moving.

First Up · 06-07-2017 12:30pm

Zubeneschamali wrote:

Good luck explaining to a judge that you think driving at the limit is slow-moving.

Who said anything about driving at the limit?

wardides · 06-07-2017 12:31pm

siobhan08 wrote: »

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt

No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.

That's how I was taught to drive

Check mirrors
Signal
Then move

Surely there was enough space for you to move in though if you were ahead of the undertaking car and they still had enough space (at least a car length) to move in behind you but still ahead of the car already in the left lane. I can check my mirrors, signal and move pretty much in 2 seconds. If anything I tend to do it as I'm overtaking the final car. If we're talking about the M1 here, there is only 2 lanes so what else are you expecting to be there once you pass the car.

siobhan08 · 06-07-2017 12:36pm

wardides wrote: »

Surely there was enough space for you to move in though if you were ahead of the undertaking car and they still had enough space (at least a car length) to move in behind you but still ahead of the car already in the left lane. I can check my mirrors, signal and move pretty much in 2 seconds. If anything I tend to do it as I'm overtaking the final car. If we're talking about the M1 here, there is only 2 lanes so what else are you expecting to be there once you pass the car.

You clearly have not read my other posts.

The tailgating and undertaking van was on my arse about 2-3 feet from my bumper.

When I checked my mirror to check the distance to moved after passing the last in a line of traffic . The tailgater had begun to move to the left to undertake. Even if there was room for me to move at that stage. It had been taken by the undertaking car

martingriff · 06-07-2017 12:39pm

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Siobhan, you did nothing wrong.

However, if you find yourself in this situation again, using your indicator a little earlier than normal will tell the tailgater that you intend to move out of their way. If there's a line of cars, when you are level (or even just approaching the last car) put on your indicator & pull in when you've passed said car.

Agree with this

beauf · 06-07-2017 12:41pm

Undertaking at high speed is not unusual on the M50 anyway.

I would say say that's not a valid interpretation of the slow moving lane.

That said. I I've only seen people pulled over by cops on the m50 two or three times, but in all the years driving on it.

evolving_doors · 06-07-2017 12:43pm

Maybe if we just call it the fast lane and be done with it... no 'overtaking'... just drive fast like a maniac with no limit... maybe!

AndrewJRenko · 06-07-2017 12:48pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Maybe if we just call it the fast lane and be done with it... no 'overtaking'... just drive fast like a maniac with no limit... maybe!

So just the usual M50 offpeak experience then?

NickNickleby · 06-07-2017 1:10pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Good luck explaining to a judge that you think driving at the limit is slow-moving.

This is common enough, traffic in lane 2 slower than lane 1.
A month ago, I was driving along the M1 towards Donabate exit. After the airport, I stayed in lane 1 and was doing about 110. Came up to and passed a truck in lane 2 that was doing about 80-90, behind a little old dear in a small car. There was no need for her to be there. I don't believe I broke any laws, but I can tell you I was VERY alert to the possibility of someone swing from lane 3 to lane 1 , while not being able to see me because of the truck.

If you want to see lane hopping madness, the M1 from M50 to just after the airport is like stock car racing, fortunately without the dramatic crashes. Worst offenders are taxis coming up the outside at probably 100+ , then slamming on and crossing FIVE lanes to get to the airport. Northern reg cars are the second most obvious offenders, most of them well over the 80kph limit.

My son goes nuts when I drop him to the airport, because I NEVER exceed the speed limit. "For God's sake dad, this road is well capable of more than 80!!". So I explain that the speed limit is there for a reason, and its because of the likelihood of a sudden snarl up because of all the criss-cross routes in the couple of miles. Also, someone coming down the ramps has to be able to safely enter the motorway at the speed limit, without some clown travelling at excessive speed almost running into them. The subsequent hard breaking by the clown is then reflected all the way back through the traffic until somewhere behind him all traffic comes to a stop. I've seen this very well explained on a UK tv program.

Anyway, I'm off now for a tootle along the M50.

TimeToShine · 06-07-2017 1:10pm

OP if it were an experienced driver talking I would be inclined to agree with them but since it's your first week driving in Dublin I can only assume that you were the problem. In my experience guys in BMWs won't attempt an undertake that is genuinely dangerous - dodgy yes but certainly not out of the realm of possibility for a fella who bought his first 2L. Although following the correct protocol you were probably making a bit of a meal of the maneuver.

You'll get used to it fairly quickly, learn to keep a lookout in your rear view for people tearing towards you and move in good time. Driving pro-actively as opposed to reactively is the best way to deal with it.

siobhan08 · 06-07-2017 1:42pm

TimeToShine wrote: »

OP if it were an experienced driver talking I would be inclined to agree with them but since it's your first week driving in Dublin I can only assume that you were the problem. In my experience guys in BMWs won't attempt an undertake that is genuinely dangerous - dodgy yes but certainly not out of the realm of possibility for a fella who bought his first 2L. Although following the correct protocol you were probably making a bit of a meal of the maneuver.

You'll get used to it fairly quickly, learn to keep a lookout in your rear view for people tearing towards you and move in good time. Driving pro-actively as opposed to reactively is the best way to deal with it.

Just because I've stated it was my first week of regular Monday to Friday driving on motorways in and out of Dublin every day does not mean I've never driven around Dublin and on the Motorways in and out. I have plenty of experience on driving on motorways. Some a lot busier than motorways in Ireland.

So I'm the problem not the guy carrying out two illegal Manoeuvres?

06-07-2017 1:48pm

mfceiling wrote: »

You do know you still have to move in to the left after completing your overtaking?

galvo_clare wrote: »

You are completely wrong here. Why not just move over into the driving lane?

If there's an extended empty driving lane in front of me, often I will. If i can see the next car in the left lane, then I stay in the overtaking lane. More often than not you'll see the next car you're gonna pass before you're finished all your overtaking. Be rare to see an empty lane (unless you're out in the midlands etc. but rarely ever in dublin).

So long as I'm not obstructing anyone from passing, I see no issue with it, and will continue to do it forever more.

The Bishop Basher · 06-07-2017 1:50pm

siobhan08 wrote: »

So I'm the problem not the guy carrying out two illegal Manoeuvres?

As this thread is testament to and has been mentioned already..

People carry out dangerous and illegal manoeuvres all the time. It's a fact of life. Experience teaches us to predict these scenarios and respond in a proactive manner. It's part of good driving.

As my driving instructor told me many years ago, you're not just driving for yourself, your driving for everyone else sharing the road around you.

Lack of awareness and an inability to spot and avoid scenarios such as you described is usually down to lack of experience.

Driving around Dublin is a skill in itself. You'll get used to it soon enough..

inforfun · 06-07-2017 2:10pm

The left lane on the M50 is the one that needs resurfacing the least.
Even "professional" (trucks, taxis, buses) drivers are not using it.
The left lane is lava.

siobhan08 · 06-07-2017 2:11pm

Swanner wrote: »

As this thread is testament to and has been mentioned already..

People carry out dangerous and illegal manoeuvres all the time. It's a fact of life. Experience teaches us to predict these scenarios and respond in a proactive manner. It's part of good driving.

As my driving instructor told me many years ago, you're not just driving for yourself, your driving for everyone else sharing the road around you.

Lack of awareness and an inability to spot and avoid scenarios such as you described is usually down to lack of experience.

Driving around Dublin is a skill in itself. You'll get used to it soon enough..

This thread has shown me that a lot of people seem to not have an issue with driver carrying out illegal manoeuvres.

The Irish seem to be too used to the lack of enforcement of the rules of the road by the traffic corps. I've been driving on motorways in Ireland for 9 years. I could count on both my hands the number of times I've seen the guards parked up in the designated ramps at the road side

GreeBo · 06-07-2017 2:19pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

This is common enough, traffic in lane 2 slower than lane 1.

Slower is not slow.

If the guy in lane 2 is doing 200kp/h and I'm doing 250kp/h I cant overtake him on the left, even though he is 50kp/h slower than me.

The "slow-moving" is to make multi-lane queuing traffic legal.

martingriff · 06-07-2017 2:21pm

Swanner wrote: »

siobhan08 wrote: »

So I'm the problem not the guy carrying out two illegal Manoeuvres?

As this thread is testament to and has been mentioned already..

People carry out dangerous and illegal manoeuvres all the time. It's a fact of life. Experience teaches us to predict these scenarios and respond in a proactive manner. It's part of good driving.

As my driving instructor told me many years ago, you're not just driving for yourself, your driving for everyone else sharing the road around you.

Lack of awareness and an inability to spot and avoid scenarios such as you described is usually down to lack of experience.

Driving around Dublin is a skill in itself. You'll get used to it soon enough..

What a load of utter bull. SHe is the problem. SHe was aware because if she was not she would have hit into an undertaking car.

You sound like an apologist for all these drivers. Should be allowed to do whatever they want and the rest should live with it.

Driving in Dublin should be no different then driving in any other motorway town or city.

And that saying your instructor told you should be thought more to these drivers than the OP as there are other drivers on the road and they should drive more appropriate.

lawred2 · 06-07-2017 2:23pm

martingriff wrote: »

What a load of utter bull. SHe is the problem. SHe was aware because if she was not she would have hit into an undertaking car.

You sound like an apologist for all these drivers. Should be allowed to do whatever they want and the rest should live with it.

Driving in Dublin should be no different then driving in any other motorway town or city.

And that saying your instructor told you should be thought more to these drivers than the OP as there are other drivers on the road and they should drive more appropriate.

It is no different. I've driven in many many countries and see the same stuff repeated everywhere. Dublin/Ireland is not unique.

dudeeile · 06-07-2017 2:31pm

Just becuase the other 2 drivers pulled some illegal manoeuvres doesn't mean you were completely in the right, we've all seen it more than once on our roads.

martingriff · 06-07-2017 2:36pm

dudeeile wrote: »

Just becuase the other 2 drivers pulled some illegal manoeuvres doesn't mean you were completely in the right, we've all seen it more than once on our roads.

The only thing she did wrong in my view was the indicator which I hope she will take on board

BronsonTB · 06-07-2017 2:39pm

Invest in a dash cam, great job for seeing exactly what happened without so much room for uncertainty of what happened.
It helps spell out the good from the bad drivers.

NickNickleby · 06-07-2017 2:49pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Slower is not slow.

If the guy in lane 2 is doing 200kp/h and I'm doing 250kp/h I cant overtake him on the left, even though he is 50kp/h slower than me.

The "slow-moving" is to make multi-lane queuing traffic legal.

I don't understand your point here. In my own case, I was at 110 and lane 2 was at 80-90. Are you saying that I should have either slowed to match lane 2, or change lane1> lane2 > lane3, then back to lane 2 back to lane1 ?

Casey78 · 06-07-2017 2:57pm

There's no better feeling than when someone attempts to undertake a line of cars only to get caught behind a car or bus or something in the 'slow' lane and then all the cars he undertook just whizz past him again and he has to join the line at the back again.
I just love it when that happens.. .love it I tell you.
I would actually sometimes slow down to the speed of the car slowing him up to allow the traffic to catch back up behind me to prevent him from cutting back in again. Usually happens on the M7 which I'm on alot.
Usually they keep trying it and will eventually succeed to get about 3 cars ahead.

BronsonTB · 06-07-2017 3:02pm

Casey78 wrote: »

I would actually sometimes slow down to the speed of the car slowing him up to allow the traffic to catch back up behind me to prevent him from cutting back in again.

Two wrongs....

NickNickleby · 06-07-2017 3:06pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

I don't understand your point here. In my own case, I was at 110 and lane 2 was at 80-90. Are you saying that I should have either slowed to match lane 2, or change lane1> lane2 > lane3, then back to lane 2 back to lane1 ?

Anyone like to offer an opinion on this scenario? Bear in mind the situation I'm describing is normal driving along the motorway in Lane 1, then coming up to slower moving car(s) in lane 2.

First Up · 06-07-2017 3:06pm

Casey78 wrote:

There's no better feeling than when someone attempts to undertake a line of cars only to get caught behind a car or bus or something in the 'slow' lane and then all the cars he undertook just whizz past him again and he has to join the line at the back again. I just love it when that happens.. .love it I tell you. I would actually sometimes slow down to the speed of the car slowing him up to allow the traffic to catch back up behind me to prevent him from cutting back in again. Usually happens on the M7 which I'm on alot. Usually they keep trying it and will eventually succeed to get about 3 cars ahead.

That doesn't compare to the pleasure of watching someone try to cut across from the outside or middle lane for their exit and find their way blocked by the cars driving in the correct lane. I just love it when they miss their exit.

NickNickleby · 06-07-2017 3:10pm

First Up wrote: »

That doesn't compare to the pleasure of watching someone try to cut across from the outside or middle lane for their exit and find their way blocked by the cars driving in the correct lane. I just love it when they miss their exit.

I've seen some very near misses with that behaviour. The two locations I've seen it most are: approaching the airport on the M1 northbound, and on the M50 from Blanchardstown, approaching the Finglas exit. Up to five lanes involved and some maniacs try to cross them all in one go...

Isambard · 06-07-2017 3:15pm

Swanner wrote: »

Fact - She wasn't even indicating..

How long does it take to "get ready" to merge back into the left lane ?

5 secs+ apparently. You travel a long way in 5 seconds in fairness.

dudeeile · 06-07-2017 3:16pm

martingriff wrote: »

The only thing she did wrong in my view was the indicator which I hope she will take on board

Oh yea and driving at 150km/h

First Up · 06-07-2017 3:18pm

NickNickleby wrote:

Anyone like to offer an opinion on this scenario? Bear in mind the situation I'm describing is normal driving along the motorway in Lane 1, then coming up to slower moving car(s) in lane 2.

If the road is otherwise clear I will go through those steps. Sometimes the middle lane hogger will wake up when they see it and move left - sometimes not.

If the road is busy I will more likely stay in the left lane rather than complicate things for those using the outside lane. That means undertaking but as I said in an earlier post, you are allowed pass on the left if "traffic" is moving faster in that lane.

Isambard · 06-07-2017 3:19pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

I don't understand your point here. In my own case, I was at 110 and lane 2 was at 80-90. Are you saying that I should have either slowed to match lane 2, or change lane1> lane2 > lane3, then back to lane 2 back to lane1 ?

strictly speaking option 2 would be the correct procedure. Just because the numpty in lane 2 doesn't know how to drive is no reason for you to complund that by also driving incorrectly.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-07-2017 3:23pm

This post has been deleted.

martingriff · 06-07-2017 3:31pm

dudeeile wrote: »

martingriff wrote: »

The only thing she did wrong in my view was the indicator which I hope she will take on board

Oh yea and driving at 150km/h

Forgot about that was really mentioning the overtaking

NickNickleby · 06-07-2017 3:32pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Which was exactly my thinking at the time. Although, as I said in my earlier post, my biggest concern was that someone flying down lane 3 might decide to head across for the next exit and not see me because of the truck. Or, I've driven up into the truck driver's blind spot and he decides to move into the left:eek::eek::eek:. Actually, the more I think about it, its likely he was trying to bully the old dear to move left.

Given that very situation above, I can see why the option to overtake across 3 lanes might be the better option.

Right, that's my motorway driving discipline sorted. Over to the roundabouts thread:)

Grolschevik · 06-07-2017 3:42pm

CalamariFritti wrote:

Then I thought what am I doing to myself? This is ridiculous. And I changed my driving. And it helped. I still arrived at the same time but no stress. Used less petrol too.

This. Used to do a Dublin/Limerick run years ago, before the motorways. Used to be heavy on the right foot, trying to overtake everything because, you know, my girlfriend was down there and there was stuff to be done.

Then one Friday I couldn't be arsed. Cranked up the music, elbow on the window, hung back and cruised.

The time difference? Ten minutes. And way less stress.

beauf · 06-07-2017 3:49pm

TimeToShine wrote: »

.... In my experience guys in BMWs won't attempt an undertake that is genuinely dangerous - dodgy yes but certainly not out of the realm of possibility for a fella who bought his first 2L.....

Can't say I agree. Seems to be mainly exec type cars and high end SUVs I see doing it. Time is money and all that.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/96663/the-top-10-cars-most-likely-to-speed

beauf · 06-07-2017 3:53pm

lawred2 wrote: »

It is no different. I've driven in many many countries and see the same stuff repeated everywhere. Dublin/Ireland is not unique.

Not unique. But it happens a lot more often in Dublin. Its not just the volume either. People just drive more aggressively.

Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

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