Harvey Weinstein scandal (Mod warning in op.)

pitifulgod · 03-12-2017 10:31am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Levine is a great conductor and I wouldnt let this business tarnish his reputation as a musician. Enjoyed a fine Tannhauser of his live once, and his recorded catalogue is of a very high standard.

There will be no progress on this whole issue until the responsibility is moved beyond employers or corporate bodies - having the Met Opera, or The Gate Theatre, or 'Hollywood', or Westminster, have anything to do with investigations, responsibility for offenders of whatever sort, and the behaviour of people who by chance happen to work for them, is completely looking in the wrong direction. The world is distracting itself from the true problem at the moment.

People, and society, are the problem. The idea that companies, industries, govt departments,etc are in anyway culpable or lax in policies, culture and need to increase their vigilance, supports, protocols, and responsibilities, is missing the target here by a country mile. Organisations are being thrown into turmoil and bearing a cost both financial and reputational, for which they are in no way responsible.

Eh, the industries are very much responsible. Eg Netflix were aware of accusations against Spacey. Same happened on set of The Usual Suspects. And he's just one example. They used their roles of power to abuse and were protected.

Studios very much hold responsibility in terms of protecting staff. The fact that Hollywood's reputation is being severely damaged and there's a fiscal impact, that happens when you actively ignore and protect those abusing power.

wetlandsboy · 03-12-2017 10:52am

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but the New Yorker has an interesting story speculating about why R Kelly is conspicuous by his omission from the current narrative:
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/why-has-r-kellys-career-thrived-despite-sexual-misconduct-allegations

Wibbs · 03-12-2017 11:00am

wetlandsboy wrote: »

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but the New Yorker has an interesting story speculating about why R Kelly is conspicuous by his omission from the current narrative:
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/why-has-r-kellys-career-thrived-despite-sexual-misconduct-allegations

I'd say the simplest explanation for the different reactions is that rock and roll was always seen as "dangerous" and "immoral". That was a large part of its appeal. Sex drugs and rock and roll. So hearing rock star X is snorting coke off the arses of 16 year old girls is near a meme. The main thing is there appears to be no hypocrisy involved. Unlike in Hollywood where the image is pushed of squeaky clean(with the occasional foray into hellraisers) from "American family values" in the early days to "political correctness" and "liberal" today. Film star X who goes on about equality, respect and choice snorting coke off the arses of 16 year old girls gives off a very different image.

Odhinn · 03-12-2017 2:28pm

wetlandsboy wrote: »

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but the New Yorker has an interesting story speculating about why R Kelly is conspicuous by his omission from the current narrative:
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/why-has-r-kellys-career-thrived-despite-sexual-misconduct-allegations

He's been in court so many times its no secret he's a deviant at this stage. He's a Gary glitter with a better legal team.

_Dara_ · 03-12-2017 2:43pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd say the simplest explanation for the different reactions is that rock and roll was always seen as "dangerous" and "immoral". That was a large part of its appeal. Sex drugs and rock and roll. So hearing rock star X is snorting coke off the arses of 16 year old girls is near a meme. The main thing is there appears to be no hypocrisy involved. Unlike in Hollywood where the image is pushed of squeaky clean(with the occasional foray into hellraisers) from "American family values" in the early days to "political correctness" and "liberal" today. Film star X who goes on about equality, respect and choice snorting coke off the arses of 16 year old girls gives off a very different image.

R Kelly - rock n roll?

marklazarcovic · 03-12-2017 4:13pm

Gabriel Byrne speaks out about spacey on usual suspects filiming.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1ebc779e-d7ad-11e7-945f-b625fa742a9e

RabbleRouser2k · 04-12-2017 12:22am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Levine is a great conductor and I wouldnt let this business tarnish his reputation as a musician. Enjoyed a fine Tannhauser of his live once, and his recorded catalogue is of a very high standard.

There will be no progress on this whole issue until the responsibility is moved beyond employers or corporate bodies - having the Met Opera, or The Gate Theatre, or 'Hollywood', or Westminster, have anything to do with investigations, responsibility for offenders of whatever sort, and the behaviour of people who by chance happen to work for them, is completely looking in the wrong direction. The world is distracting itself from the true problem at the moment.

People, and society, are the problem. The idea that companies, industries, govt departments,etc are in anyway culpable or lax in policies, culture and need to increase their vigilance, supports, protocols, and responsibilities, is missing the target here by a country mile. Organisations are being thrown into turmoil and bearing a cost both financial and reputational, for which they are in no way responsible.

Don't let it tarnish his reputation? What? Don't you usually decry any allegations or ruminations towards celebrities. Even bring out 'rape culture' stuff? Just cos you know him, doesn't mean he's innocent or 'untarnished'.

The press knew it, but he dodged questions about it-even at a Kennedy awards Honors, he snuck in the side door-he couldn't walk the red carpet because of questions.
Sounds like he's the Weinstein/ Spacey of the Met.

marienbad · 04-12-2017 12:40am

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

The press knew it, but he dodged questions about it-even at a Kennedy awards Honors, he snuck in the side door-he couldn't walk the red carpet because of questions.
Sounds like he's the Weinstein/ Spacey of the Met.

Not that it makes any difference but anyone with an interest in classical music has known about this for years , always left an uncomfortable feeling .

Same with that guy in The Who , he was cut an awful lot of slack too.

04-12-2017 12:51am

marienbad wrote: »

Not that it makes any difference but anyone with an interest in classical music has known about this for years , always left an uncomfortable feeling .

Same with that guy in The Who , he was cut an awful lot of slack too.

good aul Pete,' I was just researching, yer honour...'

RabbleRouser2k · 04-12-2017 1:13am

marienbad wrote: »

Not that it makes any difference but anyone with an interest in classical music has known about this for years , always left an uncomfortable feeling .

Same with that guy in The Who , he was cut an awful lot of slack too.

Still went on a registry. It's why he wasn't in the Simpson's when The Who appeared.

marienbad · 04-12-2017 2:41am

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Still went on a registry. It's why he wasn't in the Simpson's when The Who appeared.

That a terrible punishment , surfing child porn and you get banned from the Simpsons !

Money and position still talk , at least until recently.

RabbleRouser2k · 04-12-2017 3:44am

marienbad wrote: »

That a terrible punishment , surfing child porn and you get banned from the Simpsons !

Money and position still talk , at least until recently.

Money and position will always talk-just yesterday an article branded Brock Turner (remember that piece of excrement?) was branded a 'controversial rapist'.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/controversial-rapist-brock-turner-seeks-overturn-conviction-182809770.html

_Dara_ · 04-12-2017 4:01am

marienbad wrote: »

Same with that guy in The Who , he was cut an awful lot of slack too.

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Still went on a registry. It's why he wasn't in the Simpson's when The Who appeared.

marienbad wrote: »

That a terrible punishment , surfing child porn and you get banned from the Simpsons !

Money and position still talk , at least until recently.

Eh lads, it was later proven that Pete Townshend was innocent, he visited an adult porn site. He didn't view child porn. Operation Ore, under which he was cautioned, did bungle some stuff despite all the good it also did.

Just goes to show how accusations can stick, even if later proven false.

PeterParker957 · 04-12-2017 10:33am

_Dara_ wrote: »

Eh lads, it was later proven that Pete Townshend was innocent, he visited an adult porn site. He didn't view child porn. Operation Ore, under which he was cautioned, did bungle some stuff despite all the good it also did.

Just goes to show how accusations can stick, even if later proven false.

+1 could not agree more.

04-12-2017 11:49am

_Dara_ wrote: »

Eh lads, it was later proven that Pete Townshend was innocent, he visited an adult porn site. He didn't view child porn. Operation Ore, under which he was cautioned, did bungle some stuff despite all the good it also did.

Just goes to show how accusations can stick, even if later proven false.

God.

The poor guy - you visit a porn site that has a link to something about child porn and get put on a sex offenders registry.

Utterly terrifying.

marienbad · 04-12-2017 1:08pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

Eh lads, it was later proven that Pete Townshend was innocent, he visited an adult porn site. He didn't view child porn. Operation Ore, under which he was cautioned, did bungle some stuff despite all the good it also did.

Just goes to show how accusations can stick, even if later proven false.

have you a link for that ?

Wibbs · 04-12-2017 1:24pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

R Kelly - rock n roll?

Yeah. In the sense of "rebellious" popular music.

kunst nugget · 04-12-2017 4:58pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

Eh lads, it was later proven that Pete Townshend was innocent, he visited an adult porn site. He didn't view child porn. Operation Ore, under which he was cautioned, did bungle some stuff despite all the good it also did.

Just goes to show how accusations can stick, even if later proven false.

That's not strictly true. But his motives do seem to have been about trying to help. It was an extraordinarily stupid move on his part though.

Edit: I think you're getting him mixed up with 3D, Robert Del Naja, from Massive Attack. He had visited an adult porn site but somehow he had found himself being under suspicion for accessing child pornography. He was completed cleared of everything in relation to that.

Townshend was arrested after the FBI found his name on a list of people who had used a credit card to pay to look at a child porn site and passed it to the British police. He had looked at it only once, and maintained it was for research. Forensic analysis on his 12 computers revealed he had downloaded no images - compared to the tens of thousands discovered on the computers of paedophiles - and emails backed up his claims that he had been in touch with child protection charities about accessing the site.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/townshend-fails-to-block-bbc-film-on-pornography-arrest-567127.html

Barry Crimmins, a US comedian, did something similar in the states and did a massive amount to highlight the issue in the states. His story is told in the fascinating 'Call Me Lucky' documentary that I think is still on Netflix. It's a must watch for everyone.

mikeysmith · 04-12-2017 5:27pm

Speaking of mud sticking

I still haven't the faintest idea of whether Michael Jackson was guilty of anything?

Is there any actual facts available on the matter

_Dara_ · 04-12-2017 11:56pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

That's not strictly true. But his motives do seem to have been about trying to help. It was an extraordinarily stupid move on his part though.

It's a weird one. I tend to believe what he says though for the reason that the police only cautioned him which tells me that he didn't do much. If he had in any way looked at child porn, he would have been charged, famous or not. Chris Langham wasn't let off due to being well-known. Now, he wouldn't be anywhere near as famous as Pete Townshend but he was starring in 'The Thick Of It' at the time of his arrest. That being said, Langham was looking at level 5 stuff which is the very worst category. :mad: But I just think that, if Pete Townshend had really done anything wrong, he would have been given more than a caution. It's fairly cut and dried. Proof that you have accessed child porn or downloaded stuff - you're getting more than an caution.

Edit: I think you're getting him mixed up with 3D, Robert Del Naja, from Massive Attack. He had visited an adult porn site but somehow he had found himself being under suspicion for accessing child pornography. He was completed cleared of everything in relation to that.

No, I knew about that one too!

Operation Ore sadly left a not-insignificant number of suicides in its wake. I'm sure some were people who were guilty but sadly a number of them were people who were wrongly accused but the accusation destroyed their lives. The problem seems to be that they were a bit in over their heads with the technology and maybe certain members of the investigation did know how to fully analyse the data. For example, and I'm sorry if I have it not quite right here as I'm not particularly techy, I recall reading about a guy arrested and charged under Operation Ore who came close to be jailed but luckily it was able to be proven that the one image of child porn found on his computer was one that downloaded from a pop up whilst he was visiting an adult site. Something like that anyways.

Outlaw Pete · 05-12-2017 1:23am

_Dara_ wrote: »

It's a weird one. I tend to believe what he says though for the reason that the police only cautioned him which tells me that he didn't do much. If he had in any way looked at child porn, he would have been charged, famous or not.

It wasn't just a simple caution though, he was placed on the sex offenders register for five years. The police were also fully ready to prosecute had he not accepted the terms they offered him. He has since claimed that he chose not to go to court as he felt some 12-year-old could perhaps have given evidence and said that she had sex with him and how could he prove her wrong.

Personally, I think he is full of shit. He would have us believe that he clicked on a 'Click Here For Child Porn' banner to prove that British banks were profiting from Child Porn (and then forwarding the money on to the owners of these sites) but that's an absurd thing to expect people to swallow and I'm not sure why they have, as it was well known throughout the 90's that many people in the UK had accessed CP sites and paid with their credit cards. Indeed, that is how Interpol tracked them down, so why, pray tell, would we need Pete Townshend to make that apparent?

It's farcical, as had he phoned whichever section of Scotland Yard that deals with this stuff, and told them his plan, they would have laughed at him and said don't bother, we already know, have you not been reading the papers of the last decade.

Outlaw Pete · 05-12-2017 1:40am

Crickey, if ever there was an odd couple:

https://twitter.com/BetteMidler/status/936296701962305537

https://twitter.com/GeraldoRivera/status/936602590619623424

Outlaw Pete · 05-12-2017 2:03am

eviltimeban wrote: »

The Gilbert / Stone thing seems a bit suspicious, in terms of Stone explaining the situation. It doesn't look like an exploitative situation.

Aye and more bizarre when you consider what she's will to overlook with regards to Polanski.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQDfW8H7Ao

I wish she'd tripped running down that hill now.

RabbleRouser2k · 05-12-2017 3:38am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Crickey, if ever there was an odd couple:

The way Babs tries to talk over that conversation is creepy...especially the way she did the same with Corey Feldman. And ppl wonder why she's not liked.

kunst nugget wrote: »

That's not strictly true. But his motives do seem to have been about trying to help. It was an extraordinarily stupid move on his part though.

Barry Crimmins, a US comedian, did something similar in the states and did a massive amount to highlight the issue in the states. His story is told in the fascinating 'Call Me Lucky' documentary that I think is still on Netflix. It's a must watch for everyone.

Yeah, what Crimmins (a survivor of child rape and molestation himself) did was seriously beyond brave. AOL had a serious issue with chatrooms, where people were exchanging child porn images. The names of these places were often under titles like '6 year old girl being raped'-as in the people in the rooms were doing the abusing, and posting images. AOL weren't policing these rooms, despite easily having access to the information of the owners of these accounts. Crimmins went all the way to the government, who were seriously unprepared to investigate or police these sites. Child porn sites were one thing, but chatrooms were like file sharing sites-they had no idea what was going on there.

ButtersSuki · 05-12-2017 3:47am

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Gabriel Byrne speaks out about spacey on usual suspects filiming.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1ebc779e-d7ad-11e7-945f-b625fa742a9e

Is there any way to view this without an Irish Times subscription?

RabbleRouser2k · 05-12-2017 4:30am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Is there any way to view this without an Irish Times subscription?

The Daily Mail has it. Essentially shooting was shut down for 2 days on The Usual Suspects, because Spacey was being a Piece of crap. He didn't know how bad, just that he'd made advances on a young actor. Singer being the director probably helped brush over it.
Spacey's behaviour continued on quite a number of projects besides TUS.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5145317/The-Usual-Suspects-shut-Kevin-Spacey-sex-behavior.html

Looks like Bryan Singer's imploding-about gawddamn time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5145403/Bryan-Singer-FIRED-Freddie-Mercury-biopic.htmlhttp://

The stars of the Queen movie have gotten him fired due to his terrible behaviour on set-not turning up, arguments where he threw objects at Rami Malek (he's playing Freddy) and one actor walking off of the set but later convinced to return.

More allegations against Singer are listed in that article, similar stuff to Spacey.

Fox Studios have closed his office on the Fox studios lot...man this is massive.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/bryan-singers-fox-offices-shutting-down-1064305

JP Liz V1 · 05-12-2017 4:51pm

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Gabriel Byrne speaks out about spacey on usual suspects filiming.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1ebc779e-d7ad-11e7-945f-b625fa742a9e

How did Spacey get away so long not named and shamed

;:rolleyes:

Danny Masterson has been fired from Netflix sitcom The Ranch

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/news/a844666/danny-masterson-fired-netflix-the-ranch-rape-allegations/

RabbleRouser2k · 05-12-2017 10:08pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

How did Spacey get away so long not named and shamed ;:rolleyes:

Danny Masterson has been fired from Netflix sitcom The Ranch

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/news/a844666/danny-masterson-fired-netflix-the-ranch-rape-allegations/

He gave consistent, decent performances-despite always giving off a creepy vibe. (My friend and me could never stand the guy, yet two other friends bought all his movies, including the Life of David Gale, which is just awful-Spacey at his smuggest). I think a lot of the time he got away with it because people didn't come forward-and his behaviour probably escalated when 'they just let him do it' (never mind they were ashamed).

Also, the evolution of the information age, and how these 'rumours' made it into the public forum of the internet meant it was harder to 'hush, hush' things. Weinstein was almost found out in 2005, but for the story being buried. But that was only plastering over a gap in a dam-eventually it cracked and the dam burst.

RabbleRouser2k · 06-12-2017 12:13am

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/danny-masterson-netflix-executive-rape-allegations_us_5a24b480e4b03c44072e6b97?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004

Rather disturbing how netflix brushed off the Masterson allegations-simply because they didn't 'believe them'-until one victim confronted a Netflix producer.

Venom · 06-12-2017 12:47am

Melanie Martinez gets added to the ongoing list, with accusations of rape by former friend Timothy Heller.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/8061580/the-voice-melanie-martinez-denies-rape-allegations-timothy-heller

Harvey Weinstein scandal (Mod warning in op.)

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