Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

KrustyUCC · 14-01-2019 12:51pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Hopefully that will put an end to people claiming this is about health. If it was, there's not a chance the vintners would be welcoming it.

It was never about Health

MUP is designed to try to get people back to the pubs

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as
a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice
of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol
consumption and the viability of pubs.

ohnonotgmail · 14-01-2019 1:13pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Every time this thread gets a bump someone shows up with a price comparison between Ireland and Spain/Portugal etc.

We get it, alcohol in Ireland is and has been more expensive than Europe and southern Europe in particular.

A price comparison between Ireland and elsewhere has nothing to do with MUP

well it does if you are trying to claim that we have cheap alcohol in ireland.

Leroy42 · 14-01-2019 1:20pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well it does if you are trying to claim that we have cheap alcohol in ireland.

Yeah, but nobody is, certainly not in comparison to other places.

But I doubt it that people decide to drink or not based on the price of the product in Spain, but rather how much it is in the local shop.

The argument is that it is not sufficiently expensive enough to deter those that abuse it from doing so.

Doctor Jimbob · 14-01-2019 1:21pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It was never about Health

MUP is designed to try to get people back to the pubs

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as
a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice
of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol
consumption and the viability of pubs.

Oh I know, but the government and a few on this thread have been trying to spin it as being about health.

Doctor Jimbob · 14-01-2019 1:22pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, but nobody is, certainly not in comparison to other places.

But I doubt it that people decide to drink or not based on the price of the product in Spain, but rather how much it is in the local shop.

The argument is that it is not sufficiently expensive enough to deter those that abuse it from doing so.

And the reason people bring up the price in other countries is to show that price isn't linked to whether or not people will abuse alcohol.

KrustyUCC · 14-01-2019 1:24pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

The argument is that it is not sufficiently expensive enough to deter those that abuse it from doing so.

People who abuse alcohol will find a way to keep abusing it

Lets take a can of grafenwalder from Lidl and somebody having 1 can every day for the year. Not exactly big drinking or abusing alcohol I would think

Currently €1.05 * 365 = €383.25

MUP €1.89 * 365 = €689.85

Difference €306.60 for every person in the country after MUP

ohnonotgmail · 14-01-2019 1:25pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, but nobody is, certainly not in comparison to other places.

But I doubt it that people decide to drink or not based on the price of the product in Spain, but rather how much it is in the local shop.

The argument is that it is not sufficiently expensive enough to deter those that abuse it from doing so.

and MUP will have no effect on those that abuse alcohol or at least this has not been shown to be true. Addicts are addicts. they will get their fix no matter what.

Leroy42 · 14-01-2019 1:32pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

People who abuse alcohol will find a way to keep abusing it

Lets take a can of grafenwalder from Lidl and somebody having 1 can every day for the year. Not exactly big drinking or abusing alcohol I would think

Currently €1.05 * 365 = €383.25

MUP €1.89 * 365 = €689.85

Difference €306.60 for every person in the country after MUP

What market share does Grafenwalder have? Every person in Ireland is drinking 1 can a day? Give over.

The likes of Heinekin/Carlsberg and the growing craft beers are closer to the MUP, so that decreases the savings. Of course it will impact on the Xmas bargains, but an extra what €50.

JCX BXC · 14-01-2019 1:43pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course it will impact on the Xmas bargains, but an extra what €50.

For what point? What does it achieve?

Garibaldi? · 14-01-2019 1:46pm

There will be a lot of cross-border trade!

KrustyUCC · 14-01-2019 1:49pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

What market share does Grafenwalder have? Every person in Ireland is drinking 1 can a day? Give over.

The likes of Heinekin/Carlsberg and the growing craft beers are closer to the MUP, so that decreases the savings. Of course it will impact on the Xmas bargains, but an extra what €50.

Grafenwalder is just an example

What do you class as an infrequent drinker?

1 can a day for the year is not big consumption.

Heineken is 4.2% alcohol. Slab under MUP will need to be €39.77. Almost double the price of this Christmas

Carlsberg is 4.3% alcohol. Slab under MUP will need to be €40.71. Over do double the price of this Christmas

MUP penalises everybody in the country who purchase any quantity of alcohol outside the pubs

why should moderate drinkers who buy the discounted slab of 24 cans for Christmas or Easter be penalised because of the addictions of others?

facehugger99 · 14-01-2019 2:57pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Heineken is 4.2% alcohol. Slab under MUP will need to be €39.77. Almost double the price of this Christmas

Carlsberg is 4.3% alcohol. Slab under MUP will need to be €40.71. Over do double the price of this Christmas

€1.65 a can?

Oh the humanity!

Doctor Jimbob · 14-01-2019 3:09pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

€1.65 a can?

Oh the humanity!

The point isn't that the price is extremely high, the point is that the price increase is completely unnecessary.

Quackster · 14-01-2019 3:22pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Garibaldi? wrote: »

There will be a lot of cross-border trade!

But not (legally anyway) in the event of a hard Brexit in which case we'll be limited to bringing no more than the miserable duty-free limits across the border.

listermint · 14-01-2019 3:29pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Every time this thread gets a bump someone shows up with a price comparison between Ireland and Spain/Portugal etc.

We get it, alcohol in Ireland is and has been more expensive than Europe and southern Europe in particular.

A price comparison between Ireland and elsewhere has nothing to do with MUP

Yeah we know. its a failed argument used by the Vinters association to get their way. - people back in their pubs.

Im glad you agree!

ireland doesnt have cheap alcohol based on all metrics in comparsion to our continental cousins.

We have a take up rate of drinking that is lowest in Europe with our Young adults with most preferring now to go to the gym or socialise elsewhere rather than the pub. and Overall consumption is down year on year for the past decade.

Im glad you have finally come around to the fact that price comparisons have nothing to do with MUP

And that the whole speel has only ever been about the Lobbying of the Vintners to get people into their pubs.

Exposed! Exposed!

hatrickpatrick · 14-01-2019 3:41pm

I'm just going to keep posting these two websites here

www.thehomebrewcompany,ie
www.homebrewwest.ie

Currently have a Citra IPA (roughly 5.5-6% when bottled) bubbling away in the corner of my bedroom, the ingredients kit cost around €20 and I'll get somewhere between 35-40 pint bottles of beer from it (23 litre brew, you have to discard a few litres at the bottom depending on how much yeast sediment collects under the beer in the bucket)

I'd say the equipment needed to brew beer kits (which won't be affected by MUP since they're just malt extracts with hops) set me back €100 altogether - but that included the first 23L kit I brewed. Every purchase I've made from these companies since then has been in the region of €40 for two 23L kits, including bottle caps and carbonation drops.

I'd say these lads will enjoy a massive boom in sales once MUP goes in. All they'd need to do is send a few reps to freshers weeks with free samples and discounted starter equipment, and the sesh will live on :cool:

facehugger99 · 14-01-2019 3:43pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The point isn't that the price is extremely high, the point is that the price increase is completely unnecessary.

All I've seen are people bitching and moaning because they won't be able to buy their slabs of cheap piss.

hatrickpatrick · 14-01-2019 3:51pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

All I've seen are people bitching and moaning because they won't be able to buy their slabs of cheap piss.

Have you ever heard people reacting positively to things they like undergoing massive price inflation? :rolleyes:

pleas advice · 14-01-2019 4:06pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

All I've seen are people bitching and moaning because they won't be able to buy their slabs of cheap piss.

It wont just affect the 'cheap piss' though, it will have a ripple effect all up the price range, so the 'cheap piss' Heineken and Carlsberg and the likes will have to be priced higher than the lidl own brand beers,
And for what reason?

Doctor Jimbob · 14-01-2019 4:06pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

All I've seen are people bitching and moaning because they won't be able to buy their slabs of cheap piss.

I'd suggest you read the rest of the thread then and not just the posts that suit your argument.

Greentopia · 14-01-2019 4:06pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Geuze wrote: »

If cheap drink is the problem, then society should be breaking down in Germany.

Cheapest 50cl can = 29cent
70cl spirits for 4.99

50cl beer in some pubs from 2.00

Yet they are a leading exporting nation, with low unemployment and low youth unemployment.

Maybe that's the case in Northern and Western cities like Stuttgart, Munich and Hamburg but have you been to the former DDR states?
Much higher unemployment, lower wages and fewer opportunities in states like Saxony and Thuringia. And from what I saw people drink more in the former Eastern states.

Much easier to do so when a crate of beer (11 bottles) cost less than €10 for 11 0.5L bottles.

facehugger99 · 14-01-2019 4:09pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Have you ever heard people reacting positively to things they like undergoing massive price inflation? :rolleyes:

Nearly 4,000 posts, the majority of which are people moaning about not being able to buy cheap piss, is a serious over reaction to a fairly minor issue.

Would make you wonder about the unhealthy relationship we seem to have with cheap alcohol in this country and ironically, makes a compelling argument for MUP.

odyssey06 · 14-01-2019 4:11pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Nearly 4,000 posts, the majority of which are people moaning about not being able to buy cheap piss, is a serious over reaction to a fairly minor issue.

Would make you wonder about the unhealthy relationship we seem to have with cheap alcohol in this country and ironically, makes a compelling argument for MUP.

Really, give us the statistical breakdown on those 4000 posts.
You are beyond parody at this stage.
Most of the recent posts I have seen are people utterly destroying your arguments, when you can be bothered to make them and not just rant about cheap drink yet you continue on, immune to logic.

listermint · 14-01-2019 4:13pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Really, give us the statistical breakdown on those 4000 posts.
You are beyond parody at this stage.
Most of the recent posts I have seen are people utterly destroying your arguments, when you can be bothered to make them and not just rant about cheap drink yet you continue on, immune to logic.

That his MO,

Void of logic, void of facts. Just here to shout basically.

Doctor Jimbob · 14-01-2019 4:15pm

pleas advice wrote: »

It wont just affect the 'cheap piss' though, it will have a ripple effect all up the price range, so the 'cheap piss' Heineken and Carlsberg and the likes will have to be priced higher than the lidl own brand beers,
And for what reason?

That's the key issue here, isn't it.

They want us to think it's for health reasons. But wait, that can't be right, since the Vintners Federation - a representative body of a group of people that make the vast majority of their income from selling alcohol support it.

It's obvious what's going on here. They're trying to get people back into the pubs. If it's really about health, then pubs need to be hit as well. But it isn't about health, and it never was.

This isn't going to have any major financial impact on me, or anyone else who just enjoys a few drinks now and then. Genuine alcoholics buying their "cheap slabs" as people on here seem fond of raving on about are still going to buy those slabs. They're just going to sacrifice other things to do so. If any of the money being raised from this was going to help them, there might be some justification in it but no, the money is just going straight into shop owners pockets.

It baffles me that anyone thinks this is a good idea.

facehugger99 · 14-01-2019 4:16pm

The cheapslab lads don't like their echo-chamber acoustics being disturbed.

hatrickpatrick · 14-01-2019 4:16pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Nearly 4,000 posts, the majority of which are people moaning about not being able to buy cheap piss, is a serious over reaction to a fairly minor issue.

Again: Are you expecting people to be happy that something they enjoy is about to get more expensive? Have you ever seen people react this way to inflation?

Would make you wonder about the unhealthy relationship we seem to have with cheap alcohol in this country and ironically, makes a compelling argument for MUP.

Only if you believe that social engineering is acceptable. Many do not.

hatrickpatrick · 14-01-2019 4:17pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

The cheapslab lads don't like their echo-chamber acoustics being disturbed.

On the contrary, the debate here would be incredibly boring if we all agreed with eachother

odyssey06 · 14-01-2019 4:22pm

Alcohol sales UP in Scotland since introduction on MUP.
https://www.conveniencestore.co.uk/news/mup-boosts-alcohol-sales-for-scottish-stores-study-says/571564.article

People if anything are spending more on alcohol rather than reducing consumption, as the % of store turnover accounted for by alcohol has gone up from 16% to 18%.

I'm sure Tesco Ireland's sales manager is rubbing his hands in glee. He has rather more reason to be happy in reality than anything of the puritan brigade.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-01-2019 5:24pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Alcohol sales UP in Scotland since introduction on MUP.
https://www.conveniencestore.co.uk/news/mup-boosts-alcohol-sales-for-scottish-stores-study-says/571564.article

"with premium brands gaining share"

who'd have predicted it ? :rolleyes:

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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