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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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    #3752
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    1874 wrote: »
    Ive found wetherspoons to be quite alright, Ive gotten nice food and different beer there, at least you know what you'll get and it seems to be a fairly good standard in my experience.
    As for Irish pubs, well what you get is practically the same thing everywhere, and its not a good standard so they have unsuprisingly resorted to lobbying to force us to drink in their establishments? I wont be, same crap heineken, guinness, Bud, I mean generally places cant even serve a decent pint of Guinness, they usually have a gruff anti customer attitude, stopped going to Irish pubs years ago, dont have the time really, I prefer to sit down to a few quiet beers at home, why should I be obligated to fund Publicans? Im all for encouraging support and change to keep businesses open, but publicans need to look at it differently.
    recently on the radio I heard about an early house, I think it sounds like a nice and interesting traditional setting, but when the publican was interviewed he really put the boot into people drinking at home, I wouldnt get tanked if I was drinking on my own at home anyway, he really was pushing the angle that people who drink at home were socially excluded and are likely to abuse drink.

    The Wetherspoons in Belfast is the grimmest place I’ve ever been.


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    #3753
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,541 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The Wetherspoons in Belfast is the grimmest place I’ve ever been.

    Well all I can say is vote with your feet and don't go back.

    This one is worth a look. In the evenings it is like a big house party.

    https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pubs/all-pubs/england/manchester/the-waterhouse-manchester


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    #3754
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,541 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Twice on RTE radio today I heard Tanya Ward of the Children's Rights Alliance praising the Public Health Alcohol Bill.
    She says it will improve outcomes for neglected children because their parents will be spending less money on drink.


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    #3755
    jbt123
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭jbt123


    elperello wrote: »
    Twice on RTE radio today I heard Tanya Ward of the Children's Rights Alliance praising the Public Health Alcohol Bill.
    She says it will improve outcomes for neglected children because their parents will be spending less money on drink.

    Delusional thinking...more money will be spent on alcohol and less on food, where alcohol addiction is the case.


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    #3756
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    elperello wrote: »
    Twice on RTE radio today I heard Tanya Ward of the Children's Rights Alliance praising the Public Health Alcohol Bill.
    She says it will improve outcomes for neglected children because their parents will be spending less money on drink.

    Ah bless. John and Mary dipso suddenly decide that vodka is now too expensive so they'll stop buying it and spend the money on kids food instead. Sure.


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    #3757
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,790 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    jbt123 wrote: »
    Delusional thinking...more money will be spent on alcohol and less on food, where alcohol addiction is the case.

    These people are fanatics. No different to brexiteers. Once they say it, it's true facts don't matter.

    There's a few in here regularly


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    #3758
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭1874


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    listermint wrote: »
    These people are fanatics. No different to brexiteers. Once they say it, it's true facts don't matter.

    There's a few in here regularly


    Sound like some kind of modern day preachy temperence movement nutters,


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    #3759
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1111861/scottish-law-minimum-alcohol-price-increase-drinking-domestic-violence/amp

    The defence rests.


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    #3760
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Hardly. The report itself points out reasons for the increase.

    And how does it compare to previous rates of increase? It's less than 1%. Has that gone up or down.

    It's a misleading headline.


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    #3761
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,281 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Weren't they hoping to reduce consumption though? So where's the evidence that MUP has worked?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3762
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,136 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Hardly. The report itself points out reasons for the increase.

    And how does it compare to previous rates of increase? It's less than 1%. Has that gone up or down.

    It's a misleading headline.

    So what exactly was MUP supposed to achieve? Clearly it has made no difference, alcohol consumption has clearly kept increasing.

    However, I assume this will clearly make no difference, and we will still instate this nanny-state policy.


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    #3763
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    There will be no reduction in consumption, just an increase in VAT to the gov. And a decrease in pocket money especially for the less well off.


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    #3764
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Weren't they hoping to reduce consumption though? So where's the evidence that MUP has worked?

    But that is what I am asking. What was the rate of increase in consumption (if any) in the previous years and how does that compare to the report?
    JCX BXC wrote: »
    So what exactly was MUP supposed to achieve? Clearly it has made no difference, alcohol consumption has clearly kept increasing.

    However, I assume this will clearly make no difference, and we will still instate this nanny-state policy.

    Clearly it has made no difference? How is that true?

    The report itself points out to specific, one-off type events, that would normally lead to increased consumption and they had a number of them within the time period. If these are removed, if they do not equate to prior periods, what would the numbers look like then?

    So I disagree that it clearly makes no difference. It may have no made difference, but it is far from the 'Case Closed' that it is being portrayed in the OP post as.


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    #3765
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,541 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The trouble with MUP and it's supporters is that those of us who like to enjoy a drink or two at home purchased at the market price can never win once the minimum price legislation is enacted.

    If the sales go down we will be told it's working and we should increase the MUP to "save more lives".

    If the sales don't go down they will say the MUP level is too low and we should increase it.


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    #3766
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,136 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    I wouldn't even particularly mind an increase in excise duty on alcohol, it's MUP that is absurd.


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    #3767
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,285 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    I wouldn't even particularly mind an increase in excise duty on alcohol, it's MUP that is absurd.

    Ah but that would affect the prices in pubs as well and the vintners wont have that.


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    #3768
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    This min price crap was fg promise to the pubs. Simple. Backhander's where had. Simples. Alcohol comsumpion is going down no need for this crap help the pubs crap. Simon harris should be in jail for the crap hes done. Cerical cancer crap is on his watch and he wants to minium price drink. Guy should be in jail.


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    #3769
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,025 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    Checkmate19 wrote: »
    This min price crap was fg promise to the pubs. Simple. Backhander's where had. Simples. Alcohol comsumpion is going down no need for this crap help the pubs crap. Simon harris should be in jail for the crap hes done. Cerical cancer crap is on his watch and he wants to minium price drink. Guy should be in jail.
    I'd say you had a few units before writing that out. Simples.


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    #3770
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    AllForIt wrote: »
    There will be no reduction in consumption, just an increase in VAT to the gov. And a decrease in pocket money especially for the less well off.
    You are forgetting the BIG money.

    Apart from the VAT the retailers and distributors will trouser ALL of the increase.
    PURE PROFIT.


    BTW : the VAT increase has to be measured against the loss of VAT on other stuff that wasn't bought. I'd argue that unless people are dipping into their savings then the VAT take is at best neutral. So ZERO extra money for healthcare.



    Fairer to increase excise, and send the extra to healthcare.


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    #3771
    Balanadan
    Site Banned Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Balanadan


    Checkmate19 wrote: »
    This min price crap was fg promise to the pubs. Simple. Backhander's where had. Simples. Alcohol comsumpion is going down no need for this crap help the pubs crap. Simon harris should be in jail for the crap hes done. Cerical cancer crap is on his watch and he wants to minium price drink. Guy should be in jail.

    I concur. **** minimum alcohol pricing. **** it right in the ass. What about the people who aren't raging alcoholics that just want to enjoy a quiet drink. Pricks!


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    #3772
    bob mcbob
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    3% reduction in alcohol consumption last year as a result of MUP

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/scotland-alcohol-sales-lowest-level-25-years-price-controls


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    #3773
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    bob mcbob wrote: »
    3% reduction in alcohol consumption last year as a result of MUP

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/scotland-alcohol-sales-lowest-level-25-years-price-controls

    Nope.

    Alcohol consumption fell by 3% and minimum pricing was brought in. I don't see anything in article to prove the two are linked. It's possible, but the article seems to be implying there's proof when there isn't.


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    #3774
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,285 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Nope.

    Alcohol consumption fell by 3% and minimum pricing was brought in. I don't see anything in article to prove the two are linked. It's possible, but the article seems to be implying there's proof when there isn't.

    and it has been trending down for the last 10 years so i think establishing a link is wishful thinking. http://www.healthscotland.scot/health-topics/alcohol/monitoring-and-evaluating-scotlands-alcohol-strategy-mesas


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    #3775
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    It seems that consumption has dropped in the period that MUP was brought in.

    What other change happened that would have lead to such a change if not MUP?

    You are quite correct that one does not prove the other, but without other events or changes that it seems reasonable to think that the two are linked.


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    #3776
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,285 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    It seems that consumption has dropped in the period that MUP was brought in.

    What other change happened that would have lead to such a change if not MUP?

    You are quite correct that one does not prove the other, but without other events or changes that it seems reasonable to think that the two are linked.

    consumption was dropping anyway.


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    #3777
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    It seems that consumption has dropped in the period that MUP was brought in.

    What other change happened that would have lead to such a change if not MUP?

    You are quite correct that one does not prove the other, but without other events or changes that it seems reasonable to think that the two are linked.

    A lot of things can seem linked on the surface.

    I'm not denying it's possible, but there's nothing in that article to suggest MUP is the main reason for consumption decreasing. It could be increasing awareness of the harm alcohol can cause, it could be any number of things.

    Deciding two things are linked without any solid evidence to suggest it is a great way to implement poor policies.


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    #3778
    bob mcbob
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    While a direct causal link cannot be confirmed this early, the article did state that

    The new data from NHS Scotland’s monitoring and evaluating Scotland’s alcohol strategy (Mesas) project showed, however, that Scots still buy 9% more alcohol per head than people in England and Wales. But the gap is closing because alcohol sales grew in England and Wales last year.


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    #3779
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,477 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    bob mcbob wrote: »
    While a direct causal link cannot be confirmed this early, the article did state that
    The new data from NHS Scotland’s monitoring and evaluating Scotland’s alcohol strategy (Mesas) project showed, however, that Scots still buy 9% more alcohol per head than people in England and Wales. But the gap is closing because alcohol sales grew in England and Wales last year.

    It would be interesting to see the alcohol sales growth in those parts of England within booze cruise distance of the Scottish borders, versus say, the Midlands.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #3780
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,541 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    bob mcbob wrote: »
    3% reduction in alcohol consumption last year as a result of MUP

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/scotland-alcohol-sales-lowest-level-25-years-price-controls

    And in other news thousands of people in Scotland who drink sensibly paid more for their chosen tipple.


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    #3781
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    and they're off

    https://www.echolive.ie/nationalnews/Calls-for-minimum-alcohol-pricing-in-Ireland-following-drop-in-Scottish-sales-2622d4c6-7035-467a-82d1-2accb618b2e8-ds

    Have to laugh at this part

    “The Public Health (Alcohol) Act 2018, which includes such progressive measures as Minimum Unit Pricing, restrictions on advertising, product separation and labelling information for all alcohol products, was enacted almost nine months ago and has the potential to make a significant impact on the harms from alcohol in Ireland.”


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