Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Leroy42

Hardly. The report itself points out reasons for the increase.

And how does it compare to previous rates of increase? It's less than 1%. Has that gone up or down.

It's a misleading headline.

Hotblack Desiato

Weren't they hoping to reduce consumption though? So where's the evidence that MUP has worked?

JCX BXC

Leroy42 wrote: »

Hardly. The report itself points out reasons for the increase.

And how does it compare to previous rates of increase? It's less than 1%. Has that gone up or down.

It's a misleading headline.

So what exactly was MUP supposed to achieve? Clearly it has made no difference, alcohol consumption has clearly kept increasing.

However, I assume this will clearly make no difference, and we will still instate this nanny-state policy.

AllForIt

There will be no reduction in consumption, just an increase in VAT to the gov. And a decrease in pocket money especially for the less well off.

Leroy42

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Weren't they hoping to reduce consumption though? So where's the evidence that MUP has worked?

But that is what I am asking. What was the rate of increase in consumption (if any) in the previous years and how does that compare to the report?

JCX BXC wrote: »

So what exactly was MUP supposed to achieve? Clearly it has made no difference, alcohol consumption has clearly kept increasing.

However, I assume this will clearly make no difference, and we will still instate this nanny-state policy.

Clearly it has made no difference? How is that true?

The report itself points out to specific, one-off type events, that would normally lead to increased consumption and they had a number of them within the time period. If these are removed, if they do not equate to prior periods, what would the numbers look like then?

So I disagree that it clearly makes no difference. It may have no made difference, but it is far from the 'Case Closed' that it is being portrayed in the OP post as.

elperello

The trouble with MUP and it's supporters is that those of us who like to enjoy a drink or two at home purchased at the market price can never win once the minimum price legislation is enacted.

If the sales go down we will be told it's working and we should increase the MUP to "save more lives".

If the sales don't go down they will say the MUP level is too low and we should increase it.

JCX BXC

I wouldn't even particularly mind an increase in excise duty on alcohol, it's MUP that is absurd.

ohnonotgmail

JCX BXC wrote: »

I wouldn't even particularly mind an increase in excise duty on alcohol, it's MUP that is absurd.

Ah but that would affect the prices in pubs as well and the vintners wont have that.

Checkmate19

This min price crap was fg promise to the pubs. Simple. Backhander's where had. Simples. Alcohol comsumpion is going down no need for this crap help the pubs crap. Simon harris should be in jail for the crap hes done. Cerical cancer crap is on his watch and he wants to minium price drink. Guy should be in jail.

ben.schlomo

Checkmate19 wrote: »

This min price crap was fg promise to the pubs. Simple. Backhander's where had. Simples. Alcohol comsumpion is going down no need for this crap help the pubs crap. Simon harris should be in jail for the crap hes done. Cerical cancer crap is on his watch and he wants to minium price drink. Guy should be in jail.

I'd say you had a few units before writing that out. Simples.

Capt'n Midnight

AllForIt wrote: »

There will be no reduction in consumption, just an increase in VAT to the gov. And a decrease in pocket money especially for the less well off.

You are forgetting the BIG money.

Apart from the VAT the retailers and distributors will trouser ALL of the increase.
PURE PROFIT.


BTW : the VAT increase has to be measured against the loss of VAT on other stuff that wasn't bought. I'd argue that unless people are dipping into their savings then the VAT take is at best neutral. So ZERO extra money for healthcare.



Fairer to increase excise, and send the extra to healthcare.

Balanadan

Checkmate19 wrote: »

This min price crap was fg promise to the pubs. Simple. Backhander's where had. Simples. Alcohol comsumpion is going down no need for this crap help the pubs crap. Simon harris should be in jail for the crap hes done. Cerical cancer crap is on his watch and he wants to minium price drink. Guy should be in jail.

I concur. **** minimum alcohol pricing. **** it right in the ass. What about the people who aren't raging alcoholics that just want to enjoy a quiet drink. Pricks!

bob mcbob

3% reduction in alcohol consumption last year as a result of MUP

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/scotland-alcohol-sales-lowest-level-25-years-price-controls

ohnonotgmail

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Nope.

Alcohol consumption fell by 3% and minimum pricing was brought in. I don't see anything in article to prove the two are linked. It's possible, but the article seems to be implying there's proof when there isn't.

and it has been trending down for the last 10 years so i think establishing a link is wishful thinking. http://www.healthscotland.scot/health-topics/alcohol/monitoring-and-evaluating-scotlands-alcohol-strategy-mesas

Leroy42

It seems that consumption has dropped in the period that MUP was brought in.

What other change happened that would have lead to such a change if not MUP?

You are quite correct that one does not prove the other, but without other events or changes that it seems reasonable to think that the two are linked.

ohnonotgmail

Leroy42 wrote: »

It seems that consumption has dropped in the period that MUP was brought in.

What other change happened that would have lead to such a change if not MUP?

You are quite correct that one does not prove the other, but without other events or changes that it seems reasonable to think that the two are linked.

consumption was dropping anyway.

bob mcbob

While a direct causal link cannot be confirmed this early, the article did state that

The new data from NHS Scotland’s monitoring and evaluating Scotland’s alcohol strategy (Mesas) project showed, however, that Scots still buy 9% more alcohol per head than people in England and Wales. But the gap is closing because alcohol sales grew in England and Wales last year.

odyssey06

bob mcbob wrote: »

While a direct causal link cannot be confirmed this early, the article did state that
The new data from NHS Scotland’s monitoring and evaluating Scotland’s alcohol strategy (Mesas) project showed, however, that Scots still buy 9% more alcohol per head than people in England and Wales. But the gap is closing because alcohol sales grew in England and Wales last year.

It would be interesting to see the alcohol sales growth in those parts of England within booze cruise distance of the Scottish borders, versus say, the Midlands.

elperello

bob mcbob wrote: »

3% reduction in alcohol consumption last year as a result of MUP

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/scotland-alcohol-sales-lowest-level-25-years-price-controls

And in other news thousands of people in Scotland who drink sensibly paid more for their chosen tipple.

KrustyUCC

and they're off

https://www.echolive.ie/nationalnews/Calls-for-minimum-alcohol-pricing-in-Ireland-following-drop-in-Scottish-sales-2622d4c6-7035-467a-82d1-2accb618b2e8-ds

Have to laugh at this part

“The Public Health (Alcohol) Act 2018, which includes such progressive measures as Minimum Unit Pricing, restrictions on advertising, product separation and labelling information for all alcohol products, was enacted almost nine months ago and has the potential to make a significant impact on the harms from alcohol in Ireland.”

ednwireland

bob mcbob wrote: »

3% reduction in alcohol consumption last year as a result of MUP

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/scotland-alcohol-sales-lowest-level-25-years-price-controls

matched by a growth in homebrew equipment and ingredient sales

KrustyUCC

I wonder what happened this report?

2 months ago there was a report that said drinking had increased

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-are-drinking-more-despite-minimum-pricing-qdspgtrr0

odyssey06

The figures track sales. They don't track consumption. They don't track home brews. They don't track alcohol brought into Scotland from England or other ferry connected locations (e.g. N Ireland).

bob mcbob

Here is an article from the trade about what is happening in the market

http://drinksretailingnews.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/18632/Minimum_unit_pricing_yields_clear_winners_and_losers_in_Scotland.html

Some good things
- white cider is effectively dead
- consumers switching to premium
- levelling of playing field between supermarkets and other retailers

So while the spend is up this could also mean overall consumption down as consumers moving from for example diamond white cider to magners.

Reputable Rog

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scots-bride-shares-impressive-hack-16197589

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-48675313

It is a small percentage of people who are the most problematic drinkers, a significant proportion of those live in poverty.

...
One man I spoke to said minimum pricing will make no difference for this group. "If they can't afford it, they'll steal it" he said.


...
According to Mr Majid, another consequence of the price rise has been a sharp rise in shoplifting.

"We are always really surprised at the people we catch," he said. "It's not always who you would expect."

odyssey06

Irish alcohol prices are already 177% of EU average.
Comparable figure for food is 121%.
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-food-drink-4692116-Jun2019/

"The cost of alcohol here is only slightly less expensive than Finland, where drink costs the most in the EU."

Ireland, awash in cheap alcohol? Fake news.

bob mcbob

odyssey06 wrote: »

Irish alcohol prices are already 177% of EU average.
Comparable figure for food is 121%.
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-food-drink-4692116-Jun2019/

"The cost of alcohol here is only slightly less expensive than Finland, where drink costs the most in the EU."

Ireland, awash in cheap alcohol? Fake news.

Dutch Gold ?

odyssey06

bob mcbob wrote: »

Dutch Gold ?

€2.25 a litre in Tesco.

Capt'n Midnight

odyssey06 wrote: »

€2.25 a litre in Tesco.

UK prices https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Products.htm?id=49

Perlenbacher Premium Pilsener
£4.75 in Scotland²
£4.39 in UK


Woodgate Dry Cider
£5.00 in Scotland²
£1.99 in UK

That £3 extra is split two ways, Lidl get £2.50 for doing nothing and UK Govt get 50p extra VAT.

But that 50p in VAT has to be offset against VAT and Excise and other economic activity had the £2.50 had been spent elsewhere.