Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

ednwireland

bob mcbob wrote: »

3% reduction in alcohol consumption last year as a result of MUP

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/19/scotland-alcohol-sales-lowest-level-25-years-price-controls

matched by a growth in homebrew equipment and ingredient sales

KrustyUCC

I wonder what happened this report?

2 months ago there was a report that said drinking had increased

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-are-drinking-more-despite-minimum-pricing-qdspgtrr0

odyssey06

The figures track sales. They don't track consumption. They don't track home brews. They don't track alcohol brought into Scotland from England or other ferry connected locations (e.g. N Ireland).

bob mcbob

Here is an article from the trade about what is happening in the market

http://drinksretailingnews.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/18632/Minimum_unit_pricing_yields_clear_winners_and_losers_in_Scotland.html

Some good things
- white cider is effectively dead
- consumers switching to premium
- levelling of playing field between supermarkets and other retailers

So while the spend is up this could also mean overall consumption down as consumers moving from for example diamond white cider to magners.

Reputable Rog

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scots-bride-shares-impressive-hack-16197589

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-48675313

It is a small percentage of people who are the most problematic drinkers, a significant proportion of those live in poverty.

...
One man I spoke to said minimum pricing will make no difference for this group. "If they can't afford it, they'll steal it" he said.


...
According to Mr Majid, another consequence of the price rise has been a sharp rise in shoplifting.

"We are always really surprised at the people we catch," he said. "It's not always who you would expect."

odyssey06

Irish alcohol prices are already 177% of EU average.
Comparable figure for food is 121%.
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-food-drink-4692116-Jun2019/

"The cost of alcohol here is only slightly less expensive than Finland, where drink costs the most in the EU."

Ireland, awash in cheap alcohol? Fake news.

bob mcbob

odyssey06 wrote: »

Irish alcohol prices are already 177% of EU average.
Comparable figure for food is 121%.
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-food-drink-4692116-Jun2019/

"The cost of alcohol here is only slightly less expensive than Finland, where drink costs the most in the EU."

Ireland, awash in cheap alcohol? Fake news.

Dutch Gold ?

odyssey06

bob mcbob wrote: »

Dutch Gold ?

€2.25 a litre in Tesco.

Capt'n Midnight

odyssey06 wrote: »

€2.25 a litre in Tesco.

UK prices https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Products.htm?id=49

Perlenbacher Premium Pilsener
£4.75 in Scotland²
£4.39 in UK


Woodgate Dry Cider
£5.00 in Scotland²
£1.99 in UK

That £3 extra is split two ways, Lidl get £2.50 for doing nothing and UK Govt get 50p extra VAT.

But that 50p in VAT has to be offset against VAT and Excise and other economic activity had the £2.50 had been spent elsewhere.

odyssey06

The Journal are running a poll today, "Should the government reduce excise on wine, beer, spirits."
https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-tax-alcohol-cheaper-4693516-Jun2019/

It's 65% YES.

elperello

odyssey06 wrote: »

The Journal are running a poll today, "Should the government reduce excise on wine, beer, spirits."
https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-tax-alcohol-cheaper-4693516-Jun2019/

It's 65% YES.

Which is encouraging.
But the question we must ask is how come Dail Eireann is 100% in favour of MUP.

Mr. teddywinkles

bob mcbob wrote: »

Dutch Gold ?

Comparable to the cheapest brand in any Europe country?. Draw like for like please

votecounts

When does this come in?
Galahad still cheap as chips in ALDI:D

Mr. teddywinkles

elperello wrote: »

Which is encouraging.
But the question we must ask is how come Dail Eireann is 100% in favour of MUP.

Pub relations or ownership? Gareth Brookes sings it well ( IV got friends in low places.)

listermint

elperello wrote: »

Which is encouraging.
But the question we must ask is how come Dail Eireann is 100% in favour of MUP.

Lobbying and relationships.

The same reasons our housing market and rental market is muck.


The end.

Thelonious Monk

Main headline in Sunday Independent today. I can't understand why the Gov are doing this when probably 85% of the population are against it. Who do they think they are? It'll surely lose them votes. I know it's probably to help pubs but this level of Nanny Statism is just shocking. I already wrote to my TDs telling them they've lost my vote (not that I'd vote for them anyway) and I suggest you to do same if you have a problem with this ridiculous legislation.

Leroy42

You've answered your own question.

They haven't lost your vote and they are banking on the presumption that this issue is simply not important enough to enough people for people to place their vote based on it.

elperello

Leroy42 wrote: »

You've answered your own question.

They haven't lost your vote and they are banking on the presumption that this issue is simply not important enough to enough people for people to place their vote based on it.

Time will tell.

The optics are not great.

158 people in the Dail on 90k a year plus expenses vote to make your few cans more expensive.

You are busting a gut all week paying taxes, mortgage etc. from average wages and this is your reward?

Most people don't understand what is coming down the road, when they see what happens there will be fallout.

Kivaro

The Fine Gael Government is going to fast track the rules to make alcohol more expensive for us in the next two weeks.
How about fast tracking insurance reform you bunch of wasters?
Not a chance though. One of these reforms will hurt regular people in this country, so it is fast tracked. The other reform would eat into insurance company profits, so it delayed so much by Fine Gael that the EU had to get involved and investigate the insurance cartel that we have in Ireland.

I have to imagine that Fianna Fail is waiting for critical mass of these negative anti-worker/contributor moves by Fine Gael before bringing them down.
The time is quickly approaching.

Leroy42

FF are totally in favour of this proposal. As are all the parties.

elperello

Leroy42 wrote: »

FF are totally in favour of this proposal. As are all the parties.

Yes they have us where they want us.

158 TD's 60 Senators and only Prof Sean Barrett from Trinity broke the consensus. He argued that MUP is a gift to the industry.

Capt'n Midnight

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I know it's probably to help pubs but this level of Nanny Statism is just shocking.

The minimum price won't affect the cost of brand name drinks in supermarkets.

People don't go to pubs to drink generic supermarket beer.

Excise won't go up so the government won't see a single cent extra there. If the plan works then excise revenue will actually drop.


Increase excised duty could be ringfenced for the HSE, but we'd rather give supermarkets free money.



Back in the day there was an anomaly where the paperback version of a book was censored here but not the hardback one.

This is exactly the same. Those who would normally buy the more expensive version are unaffected, while those who aren't flush with cash have to go through a paywall.

elperello

The number of drinks affected by MUP will depend on the level it is set at.

This initiative is directly aimed at those who enjoy a drink at home and like to buy it at the best price.

Pub prices will be unaffected as will fine wines.

The people affected will be ordinary people having a few beers of an evening or a bottle of wine with Sunday lunch in their own home.

Whether you have a drink problem or not you will have to stump up.

Richard Hillman

They won't do it before an election. They can't go to the Irish public, list their achievements and say we put up the price of beer/wine.

If there is a change in government there will be other priorities and it will go on the backburner. Nanny State policies only tend to come it when a government has been in Power for a long time. It was the same when FF were in power for 14 years. Towards the end they were going mad on lobbyist "health" policies.

elperello

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They won't do it before an election. They can't go to the Irish public, list their achievements and say we put up the price of beer/wine.

If there is a change in government there will be other priorities and it will go on the backburner. Nanny State policies only tend to come it when a government has been in Power for a long time. It was the same when FF were in power for 14 years. Towards the end they were going mad on lobbyist "health" policies.

I hope you are right.
It really doesn't make sense from a political point of view.
The number upset about it you would imagine far bigger than those pleased.

By the way there is a poll going on over on the Journal.

hatrickpatrick

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The minimum price won't affect the cost of brand name drinks in supermarkets.

It absolutely will if you include the routine 1:1 can to euro ratio on large 24-packs of cans (Guinness, Heino, Grolsh, Budwiser come to mind straight away) in the likes of Tesco, Supervalu, Dunnes etc, as well as the similar €10 for 8 cans deals in off licenses. In other words, this will hit people who are bulk-buying in order to stock up for hosting a party or anything like that, particularly hard. That's when people will start to get pissed (pun intended) about it in my view - when summer barbecue season or Christmas party season rolls around next year, assuming they do bring it in by then, and people realise that the cost of buying drink for guests at their house party has increased astronomically.

In my view that's really the worst aspect of this, it's not just that it unfairly targets personal consumption but it also makes it a lot more expensive to be a non-BYOB host of a party.

Thelonious Monk

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They won't do it before an election. They can't go to the Irish public, list their achievements and say we put up the price of beer/wine.

They will, and they are. Leo talks about it in a bragging fashion, it's bizarre. I heard him the other day talk about how we are being world leaders by doing this just like we were with the smoking ban.
I really don't think this is just down to trying to satisfy publicans, surely there's more to it than that? I mean any poll I've seen is almost unanimously against it, so why force it on a public that doesn't want it? I wish someone could ask politicians in favour of it this question.

branie2

Yikes!

Spanish Eyes

So here we go again. The easy target once more with the facade of Health behind it. What a joke when we look at our Health system.

Strange that the increase under MUP will not go to the State but to the provider/retailer. Anyone notice that? Very little will go to the coffers to assist "health".

It is a sop to the Vintners IMV. But anyway won't affect me, that doesn't mean I think it's right.... it is completely wrong. We have far too many constraints on our personal freedoms now, this is just another one.

Far better for FG to laud the false insurance scams, the housing crisis (for those who work and contribute mind), the health service. I could go on.

But no. This is the next big thing. I think it is designed to get people riled and slip other things under the radar, or take the heat off them frankly, like those I mentioned above.

I think the commencement date will be twelve months hence. That is when a GE will take place, post Brexit (if it happens) and so on. Can't think why it is being delayed so long if it is so crucial to the health of the Nation.