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12-07-2019, 20:14   #391
timthumbni
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So being critical of the tribalism, triumphalism, bigotry and thuggery associated with the July marching season is "condescending" it it?

Get a grip...

You might find this very hard to believe in your small little inward-looking world, but Northern friends of mine from a Protestant background actually distance themselves from the Orange Order, the marches and bonfires and prefer to get out of the North to take a break from the rather tense atmosphere at this time of year.

My Dutch relative (through my sister's marriage) lives and works in Ballymena - is married to a Ballymena man and has two small children - and has been told several times by locals to "go home" and "you're.
No, the condescending bit was you pointing out you had a 2nd cousin twice removed who was Protestant like you were David Attenborough in amongst the lions in Africa.

Of course many from a unionist background don’t go to bonfires, the parades or anything else. I already have said this the past. I was. Close to not going myself but kids wanted to go. We get 2 public holidays and a lot of tradesmen and factory’s take their week off now. Of course that’s why a lot take their week in Benidorm or Santa ponsa.

It’s rarely because of the parades themselves. Jaysus, I went to the parade and wasn’t even held up in the town itself either going or coming.

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12-07-2019, 20:14   #392
FrancieBrady
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Brian Kennaway has been a member of the OO for 40 year and a Senior member of the Grand Lodge of Ireland for 25, in his book The Orange Order -A Tradition Betrayed he spills the beans as it were.

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What is his case against the powers-that-be in the Orange Order? Put simply, he believes that they have lost the plot. They are weakened by a sectarianism that few of them even acknowledge, are politically myopic to the point of stupidity, and more than a little ambivalent about matters such as the Belfast Agreement, the peace process and, it would seem, Loyalist violence. They are, in fact, a hidebound and unsophisticated bunch without vision or plan.
Kennaway holds that as a result of its inept leadership the Order has become discredited and cut off from much of its normal support. It has not, however, split—that is something that he says it does not do—but it has severely haemorrhaged. Its membership stands at an all-time low (about 30,000); many of its most able are either disenchanted or have drifted away. There are few graduates in its ranks; to all intents and purposes it is a proletarian outfit, heavy with riff-raff, plus an argumentative, obscurantist, rural wing.
It has no power, no influence, no prestige, and is spurned by the Protestant middle classes, who are embarrassed by its vapourings and antics. People in the know largely see it as part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
The tenor of Kennaway’s remarks is that if the present leadership continues the Order will self-destruct or fade away.
Good luck to the PR people for the OO on here in defending that!

https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Order-.../dp/0413775356
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12-07-2019, 20:17   #393
timthumbni
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I was in Belfast a few times and very little flags in republican areas. However loyalist areas were full of them. It’s actually worse now with these parachute flags everywhere which really only serve to try and incite further.
And what was the question here exactly?
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12-07-2019, 20:17   #394
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i think its good for every little organisation to have their special day.
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12-07-2019, 20:18   #395
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They've basically re-defined the province in their own minds into the area that they believe they can control. This mindset is notional really, and doesn't stand up to any logic, but is strangely given official status e.g. the 'Ulster Unionist Part', a strange concept given that if Donegal were in NI, unionism would have failed to secure a stormont majority many years ago and NI would be gone by now.

There are other official examples; the 'RUC' (now renamed) and BBC radio Ulster (I think that's still around despite the logic fail).
Or "Stand Up for the Ulster men" sung at Windsor Park during NI games.
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12-07-2019, 20:23   #396
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And what was the question here exactly?
It was an observation. Went to a lovely tourist town called Carrickfergus and a shame to see it so littered with flags and vile messages.
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12-07-2019, 20:27   #397
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It was an observation. Went to a lovely tourist town called Carrickfergus and a shame to see it so littered with flags and vile messages.
That’s where King Billy came to land. What were the messages?
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12-07-2019, 20:31   #398
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That’s where King Billy came to land. What were the messages?
Parachute regiment flags and soldier ‘f’. To me they are vile as taking pleasure from people who were murdered. And yes I know loyalist and republican areas do the same but Carrickfergus should be looking for people to visit without such flags.

I hadn’t realized what a Unionist town it actually was until after and the concerted uvf efforts to get Catholics out.
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12-07-2019, 20:32   #399
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That’s where King Billy came to land. What were the messages?
Why did the OO move so far away from what Billy was fighting for? He fought for civil and religious freedom, yet the OO is an exclusively Protestant organisation that sought to keep NI exclusively a Protestant state for Protestant people and managed to do that for decades to the detriment of those of a different faith. Genuine question.
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12-07-2019, 20:36   #400
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2- The psni are is a difficult spot here. It is not their place to take down flags on posts unless public safety is at risk. I think most sensible people have condemned the burning of flags on bonfires. KAT slogans are a disgrace but walk around the Lagan area and loads of KAH (kill all huns) graffiti about. (Maybe Tyrone gaa players have been around) Thats Belfast for you. Bigger cities tend to have a bigger collection of twats about imo.
I find this one strange. Are the PSNI a normal police force assigned to carry out normal police duties like you'd see police so in Birmingham, London, Liverpool, Manchester?

IF so, the ones in those cities are prone now to questioning people if they make dangerous remarks online or in the media.....the police in England even recently 'spoke' to Jo Brand after she joked about throwing battery acid on a politician instead of a milkshake.

She was making a joke and was spoken to.

And there are plenty of other examples.

Yet in NI, you can fly swastika's, burn flags to antagonise your neighbours, burn tyres, ruin car parks, threaten staff etc etc, yet the police unfortunately can do nothing about it.
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12-07-2019, 20:41   #401
 
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Yet in NI, you can fly swastika's, burn flags to antagonise your neighbours, burn tyres, ruin car parks, threaten staff etc etc, yet the police unfortunately can do nothing about it.
If you call it culture and try pass it off as a fun family day...it'll be all ok



Personally i feel culturally enriched by seeing this....

The reason the psni wont do anything about it....is they are drawn from same communities as its culturally ok to.do this
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12-07-2019, 20:43   #402
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https://twitter.com/BBCMarkSimpson/s...66398253154305

State of this Blueshirt prick Richmond. His family were in the OO in Cavan not suprised he's loving it. Having a great time while our national flag is burned. He should stay there.
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12-07-2019, 20:45   #403
timthumbni
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If you call it culture and try pass it off as a fun family day...it'll be all ok



Personally i feel culturally enriched by seeing this....

The reason the psni wont do anything about it....is they are drawn from same communities as its culturally ok to.do this
Reason there are not more from catholic community in PSNI despite the massive effort is because Irish republicans whether in the Ira, the new Ira or the i can’t believe it’s not the Ira keep blowing either them up or their legs off. In the case of the Gaelic playing officer he accused members of his own gaa community around toome. Lovely people it seems.
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12-07-2019, 20:47   #404
FrancieBrady
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I find this one strange. Are the PSNI a normal police force assigned to carry out normal police duties like you'd see police so in Birmingham, London, Liverpool, Manchester?

IF so, the ones in those cities are prone now to questioning people if they make dangerous remarks online or in the media.....the police in England even recently 'spoke' to Jo Brand after she joked about throwing battery acid on a politician instead of a milkshake.

She was making a joke and was spoken to.

And there are plenty of other examples.

Yet in NI, you can fly swastika's, burn flags to antagonise your neighbours, burn tyres, ruin car parks, threaten staff etc etc, yet the police unfortunately can do nothing about it.
You are getting at the nub of what still has to happen in northern Ireland NIMAN.

I think that female police officer talked herself into a corner yesterday, it will be interesting to see if there are any repercussions with her 'We don't have the power' remarks. Because I think they would have plenty of 'powers' if they genuinely wanted to use them
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12-07-2019, 20:47   #405
 
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Reason there are not more from catholic community in PSNI despote the massive effort is because Irish republicans whether in the Ira, the new Ira or the i can’t believe it’s not the Ira keep blowing either them up or their legs off. In the case of the Gaelic playing officer he accused members of his own gaa community around toome. Lovely people it seems.
Meh....noones defending them


Any chance of engageing with the subject matter instead of roaring "look over there....dem catholics baaaad" at anyone who questions what passes for culture/family fun days in NI?
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