Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

Seve OB · 06-07-2018 10:45am #1

Wait till you hear them scream and shout when we run out of water. You know.. the ones who gave out about the water meters in the first place. They will be giving out that everyone is using to much water.

The only true way to make people limit the amount of water they use is to meter them and make them pay for what they use. I know we have leaks to fix and all, but really to conserve water properly, not only do leaks need to be fixed but peoples habits need to be changed.

I don't care about running the tap when I brush my teeth, or taking extra long showers or conserving water.

But meter my usage and my habits will change overnight.

theyoungchap · 06-07-2018 10:46am

The only time we had a drop in water consumption was in October a couple of years ago when people thought they were going to be metered.
100% agree with you.

Hector Bellend · 06-07-2018 10:46am

Yeah. It's about time we grew up and paid for our water.

RandomName2 · 06-07-2018 10:57am

A band aid over a gaping wound.

Meters don't make it rain more, or make the reservoirs bigger, or reduce the population of Dublin.

Even if there were meters in place it would only give a couple more weeks reprive before a hose-pipe ban got put in place. The drought isn't caused by a lack of metering. It's not even caused by the leaks in all the pipes. It due to the lack of rain.

Infrastructural investment, in the form of more numerous reservoirs, and replaced piping systems is important. Hopefully we might see it happen at some point. Nothing's stopping the government from investing in it.

We did invest a billion euro in Irish Water though. That's been really useful. :mad:

Hitman3000 · 06-07-2018 11:01am

They have water meters in much of the UK and pay charges yet frequent hose pipe bans.....

Hitman3000 · 06-07-2018 11:02am

Seve OB wrote:

I don't care about running the tap when I brush my teeth, or taking extra long showers or conserving water.

You need to face a financial penalty to make you conserve water?

Sabre0001 · 06-07-2018 11:03am

Seve OB wrote: »

I don't care about running the tap when I brush my teeth, or taking extra long showers or conserving water.

You monster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcZbN0Z08c

wexie · 06-07-2018 11:06am

.....While I absolutely agree with some of the things said here, I can't help but wonder would we actually 'need'* to conserve water if the infrastructure wasn't such a heap?

(I mean from a 'danger of running out point of view' I agree it makes sense from an environmental point of view regardless)

Wanderer78 · 06-07-2018 11:13am

Vartry reservoir levels didn't look too bad during the week, looks like this could be mainly a supply problem, no harm in preserving though, as it looks like very little rain for some time.

Water protests were understandable, as they were more a reaction to austerity than anything

keith_sixteen · 06-07-2018 11:16am

Seve OB wrote: »

I don't care about running the tap when I brush my teeth, or taking extra long showers or conserving water.

But meter my usage and my habits will change overnight.

It really is staggering the amount of people who go through life with this attitude. How about conserving water not because "nobody makes me pay for it" but because you are a grown up and can decide to act like one all by yourself?

Zebra3 · 06-07-2018 11:17am

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Yeah. It's about time we grew up and paid for our water.

We already do. Not sure why people don’t understand that.

Do you think it magically turns up for free in our houses?

Benteke · 06-07-2018 11:17am

Definition of stupidity is to pay for your water twice, So they can fcuk off

wexie · 06-07-2018 11:18am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Vartry reservoir levels didn't look too bad during the week, looks like this could be mainly a supply problem, no harm in preserving though, as it looks like very little rain for some time.

Thing is though, if 50% really does leak out between the reservoir and the consumer you need to look at the reservoir like it has half of what you saw.

What would it look like then?

goz83 · 06-07-2018 11:18am

Seve OB wrote: »

Wait till you hear them scream and shout when we run out of water. You know.. the ones who gave out about the water meters in the first place. They will be giving out that everyone is using to much water.

The only true way to make people limit the amount of water they use is to meter them and make them pay for what they use. I know we have leaks to fix and all, but really to conserve water properly, not only do leaks need to be fixed but peoples habits need to be changed.

I don't care about running the tap when I brush my teeth, or taking extra long showers or conserving water.

But meter my usage and my habits will change overnight.

You whinge about people whinging and then say that you won't bother conserving water until you are charged for it? That's a very irresponsible attitude.

I don't agree with additional water charges for a number of reasons, but we won't have that discussion here. What I will say is that I am very conscious of our water use and encourage my kids to be the same. Water is not left on when teeth are brushed, or hands are washed. Showers are kept short and baths are not brimming.

I have a pond. When evacuating the filters (fortnightly in the summer), it uses about 600 litres of water. But that water is used to irrigate our plants and vegetables.....some of which we had for dinner yesterday.

What we primarily need is a change of attitude. Sadly I have to agree that most people won't change their attitude until they are charged for water. The biggest abusers still won't pay, or will be given grants, so it will be mostly average and responsible users who will be left to pay the bill.

We also really need the pipes fixed. The real reason IW are lowering water pressure at night has nothing to do with consumer use. The higher the pressure, the more leakage we have. IW cost a billion....that would have fixed a lot of pipes!

DrumSteve · 06-07-2018 11:19am

I don't think most people have a problem paying for it.

However, the way it was set up and the strong possibility it would be sold off put paid to that.

Imagine how many leaks we could have fixed with the money used to set up IW in the first place?

Billgirlylegs · 06-07-2018 11:20am

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Yeah. It's about time we grew up and paid for our water.

Is that the only metric to indicate people "grew up"???

The whole Irish Water circus was a disorganized fiasco from the start, designed only to corner the market for a few cowboys and make them rich.

When I joined the workforce, many years ago, PAYE was levied and used to pay for general services-Co Councils, Public Services etc.
Some unnamed genius came up with a great wheeze that rather than paying for services out of general funds with everyone equally entitled to use or access them, we will break them down into profit making service industries.
Naturally this means that PAYE would be reduced drastically:pac:
I still have a hefty PAYE bill, pay for my bin collections, property tax (what does that fund again?) and only thanks to the aforementioned fiasco, I don't have a water meter bill.
If I did have, why, with whatever money they would coerce from my fellow citizens would Irish Water be able to allow me to copy DCC or the GAA and pour millions of litres onto my vast lawns?

The man from Irish water was on last night, and seemed to indicate that in spite of four weeks of no rain and sky high temperatures, there is plenty of "water" in the system.
As long as people (DCC power washing their offices / GAA with nice green pitches) don't act the maggot, it seems unlikely we will run out.

Bit of contrast with the Big Brother "we are able to read your meter and you will be prosecuted" routine last weekend

coldfire1x · 06-07-2018 11:22am

I will be more than happy to pay for water once they lower the income tax rate.

I will have the money and pay for what I use.

rafatoni · 06-07-2018 11:23am

DrumSteve wrote: »

I don't think most people have a problem paying for it.

However, the way it was set up and the strong possibility it would be sold off put paid to that.

Imagine how many leaks we could have fixed with the money used to set up IW in the first place?

The fact that "saint" uncle dinny was involved didnt make it any palatbale to folk. As yoi say a dogs dinner was made of it.

The Backwards Man · 06-07-2018 11:23am

Benteke wrote: »

Definition of stupidity is to pay for your water twice, So they can fcuk off

Who are you paying already? I'd gladly pay too but I'm paying fcuk all at the moment.

ArchXStanton · 06-07-2018 11:23am

DrumSteve wrote: »

I don't think most people have a problem paying for it.

However, the way it was set up and the strong possibility it would be sold off put paid to that.

Imagine how many leaks we could have fixed with the money used to set up IW in the first place?

Indeed,instead of putting that money into fixing leaks they ploughed it into a billing system for the cash cows...

Wanderer78 · 06-07-2018 11:24am

wexie wrote:

Thing is though, if 50% really does leak out between the reservoir and the consumer you need to look at the reservoir like it has half of what you saw.

Yes I do understand that leakage is a serious problem for us, but I'd imagine a lot of countries have a similar problem, I have seen water levels much lower in the past in that particular reservoir, so I suspect this is more a production problem than an actual supply problem, but the ban is a good idea

DrumSteve · 06-07-2018 11:25am

rafatoni wrote: »

The fact that "saint" uncle dinny was involved didnt make it any palatbale to folk. As yoi say a dogs dinner was made of it.

Yeah that didn't go down well (pardon the pun) at all.

That lad has his finger in more pies than Mr Kipling.

omega man · 06-07-2018 11:26am

Zebra3 wrote: »

We already do. Not sure why people don’t understand that.

Do you think it magically turns up for free in our houses?

Who’s “we”? Is it through income tax or what exactly? Then why must many rural communities pay for water access if they already pay? I hear this a lot but I don’t get it.....

Hesh's Umpire · 06-07-2018 11:28am

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

Is that the only metric to indicate people "grew up"???

The whole Irish Water circus was a disorganized fiasco from the start, designed only to corner the market for a few cowboys and make them rich.

When I joined the workforce, many years ago, PAYE was levied and used to pay for general services-Co Councils, Public Services etc.
Some unnamed genius came up with a great wheeze that rather than paying for services out of general funds with everyone equally entitled to use or access them, we will break them down into profit making service industries.
Naturally this means that PAYE would be reduced drastically:pac:
I still have a hefty PAYE bill, pay for my bin collections, property tax (what does that fund again?) and only thanks to the aforementioned fiasco, I don't have a water meter bill.
If I did have, why, with whatever money they would coerce from my fellow citizens would Irish Water be able to allow me to copy DCC or the GAA and pour millions of litres onto my vast lawns?

The man from Irish water was on last night, and seemed to indicate that in spite of four weeks of no rain and sky high temperatures, there is plenty of "water" in the system.
As long as people (DCC power washing their offices / GAA with nice green pitches) don't act the maggot, it seems unlikely we will run out.

Bit of contrast with the Big Brother "we are able to read your meter and you will be prosecuted" routine last weekend

You obviously didn't see some of the GAA pitches last weekend on the telly. They were very brown and yellow and not much green happening. Croke Park being the exception.

wexie · 06-07-2018 11:31am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Yes I do understand that leakage is a serious problem for us, but I'd imagine a lot of countries have a similar problem, I have seen water levels much lower in the past in that particular reservoir, so I suspect this is more a production problem than an actual supply problem, but the ban is a good idea

I'm actually not so sure that many comparable countries would have leakage on the same scale or infrastructure that's in quite the same shambles.

I remember reading an article a while ago that Dublin was always going to have a water supply issue purely because of the population density. So I suspect it's probably a bit of both.

Bit I just don't understand how come the infrastructure can still be in such a balls, it's not like the money wasn't there during the good years? Was it just a case (as usual) of no forward planning at all?

Benteke · 06-07-2018 11:31am

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Who are you paying already? I'd gladly pay too but I'm paying fcuk all at the moment.

Agriculture Minister Simon Coveney at the time of the fiasco said the following on newstalk radio

“…at the moment Irish taxpayers are paying about 1.2 billion euros for the cost of water, water is not free at the moment…”

As I said they can fcuk off if they think they want more, Some people really do like to bend over to be shafted in this country

jooksavage · 06-07-2018 11:32am

wexie wrote: »

.....While I absolutely agree with some of the things said here, I can't help but wonder would we actually 'need'* to conserve water if the infrastructure wasn't such a heap?

(I mean from a 'danger of running out point of view' I agree it makes sense from an environmental point of view regardless)

Yeah we do. Our water comes from one of the better run group schemes. They've been flat out the last few years doing proactive maintenance, installing new pumping facilities etc. In spite of this, theres big concerns about supply in the coming days.

jooksavage · 06-07-2018 11:34am

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You need to face a financial penalty to make you conserve water?

Some poeple do, absolutely.

Zebra3 · 06-07-2018 11:36am

omega man wrote: »

Who’s “we”? Is it through income tax or what exactly? Then why must many rural communities pay for water access if they already pay? I hear this a lot but I don’t get it.....

Paid for through the various forms of taxation that the state raises.

No idea about rural areas. Don't live in the middle of nowhere.

whisky_galore · 06-07-2018 11:37am

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

Bit of contrast with the Big Brother "we are able to read your meter and you will be prosecuted" routine last weekend

IW spokespeople are spoofers, about as believable as a report from Comical Ali. The people saw the whole IW premise was built on sand, and quite rightly pushed it over.

Hector Savage · 06-07-2018 11:40am

"Water is a fundamental right" ... :rolleyes:

Tell that to people living in the Sudan, or Namibia ...

wexie · 06-07-2018 11:40am

jooksavage wrote: »

Yeah we do. Our water comes from one of the better run group schemes. They've been flat out the last few years doing proactive maintenance, installing new pumping facilities etc. In spite of this, theres big concerns about supply in the coming days.

I meant the cities really, ie. where IW supplies.

(do IW do group schemes?)

We have our own well and are very conscious of the dropping water table

omega man · 06-07-2018 11:43am

Zebra3 wrote: »

Paid for through the various forms of taxation that the state raises.

No idea about rural areas. Don't live in the middle of nowhere.

What else does one get for that? Free medical care maybe? A house? Food? I must be missing out on a lot of free stuff as I pay an awful lot of ‘various forms of taxation’ too....!

jooksavage · 06-07-2018 11:43am

Hector Savage wrote: »

"Water is a fundamental right" ... :rolleyes:

Tell that to people living in the Sudan, or Namibia ...

Not starving is another fundamental right but that doesnt translate into free food for everyone in the country regardless of their ability to pay for it.

Hitman3000 · 06-07-2018 11:44am

omega man wrote:

Then why must many rural communities pay for water access if they already pay? I hear this a lot but I donâ€™t get it.....

If people choose to live away from the services provided by the state what do they expect? Although group schemes and private well owners avail of grants. Of course the option is to sell their homes loose out on the relative peace /quiet and much lower Property tax and move to an urban setting.

nthclare · 06-07-2018 11:50am

This hose pipe nation wide ban is a joke.

There's lakes in Clare which are 80ft deep in places and people are getting their water pumped from there.

There's deep wells which would fire water 100 foot into the sky....but we're banned from the hose pipe....

Ban it in Dublin, ban it everywhere else.....

How can the river Shannon sustain Dublin's needs if it can't supply the Midlands ????

Blazer · 06-07-2018 11:51am

I was completely against Irish Water and trotted out the same old spiel that I already pay for my water and why should I pay it twice.
But after educating myself on the costs of treating the water etc, plus the fact that our pipe infrastructure is practically crumbling around us and that for the past 40-50 years councils have been neglecting to maintain or invest in the infrastructure its obvious we need a separate entity to look after water.
However it should not be a private company, it should be enshrined in law that the body set up for this can never be privatised and that water should be metered and paid for.
All money raised by this state body should be reinvested into the infrastructure to bring it upto more modern standards and future proof it as much as possible.
We cannot complain about water standards in this country when we refuse to pay for it as a whole.

Zebra3 · 06-07-2018 11:59am

omega man wrote: »

What else does one get for that? Free medical care maybe? A house? Food? I must be missing out on a lot of free stuff as I pay an awful lot of ‘various forms of taxation’ too....!

You seem to have lost the plot.

Because water is supplied to houses through general taxation you want free food?

Benteke · 06-07-2018 12:00pm

Blazer wrote: »

I was completely against Irish Water and trotted out the same old spiel that I already pay for my water and why should I pay it twice.
But after educating myself on the costs of treating the water etc, plus the fact that our pipe infrastructure is practically crumbling around us and that for the past 40-50 years councils have been neglecting to maintain or invest in the infrastructure its obvious we need a separate entity to look after water.
However it should not be a private company, it should be enshrined in law that the body set up for this can never be privatised and that water should be metered and paid for.
All money raised by this state body should be reinvested into the infrastructure to bring it upto more modern standards and future proof it as much as possible.
We cannot complain about water standards in this country when we refuse to pay for it as a whole.

Denis O'Brien loves people like you

jooksavage · 06-07-2018 12:02pm

Blazer wrote: »

I was completely against Irish Water and trotted out the same old spiel that I already pay for my water and why should I pay it twice.
But after educating myself on the costs of treating the water etc, plus the fact that our pipe infrastructure is practically crumbling around us and that for the past 40-50 years councils have been neglecting to maintain or invest in the infrastructure its obvious we need a separate entity to look after water.
However it should not be a private company, it should be enshrined in law that the body set up for this can never be privatised and that water should be metered and paid for.
All money raised by this state body should be reinvested into the infrastructure to bring it upto more modern standards and future proof it as much as possible.
We cannot complain about water standards in this country when we refuse to pay for it as a whole.

This 100%. There are bigger things at stake here than rhetorical arguments about universal rights to this or that. The water situation in this country needs to be addressed and the money needs to come from somewhere. You can't drink your principles.

evil_seed · 06-07-2018 12:08pm

It's the leaks, it's the **** infrastructure in place, and it's the mismanagement of the whole thing that's causing problems. It's not a lack of rain.

jooksavage · 06-07-2018 12:13pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

If people choose to live away from the services provided by the state what do they expect? Although group schemes and private well owners avail of grants. Of course the option is to sell their homes loose out on the relative peace /quiet and much lower Property tax and move to an urban setting.

The "boggers choice" argument. On time, every time. And it would stand up too, if every rural dweller could just sell up their ample country holding and move.

Also, according to https://lpt.revenue.ie/lpt-web/reckoner/lpt.html, my property tax is the exact same as someone would pay Dublin City Council for an equivalent property.

Huexotzingo · 06-07-2018 12:15pm

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Yeah. It's about time we grew up and paid for our water.

Hi Denis

Hitman3000 · 06-07-2018 12:31pm

jooksavage wrote:

The "boggers choice" argument. On time, every time. And it would stand up too, if every rural dweller could just sell up their ample country holding and move.

I live in a rural environment so your comment is void. The nearest town ( my original home) is 14 miles away. I'm also aware of the grants available to group schemes and well owners. Something that seems to me never mentioned by the rural fans of water meters.
My property tax would be 3 times what I currently pay if I lived in a similar property in my former home town.

theyoungchap · 06-07-2018 12:50pm

nthclare wrote: »

This hose pipe nation wide ban is a joke.

There's lakes in Clare which are 80ft deep in places and people are getting their water pumped from there.

There's deep wells which would fire water 100 foot into the sky....but we're banned from the hose pipe....

Ban it in Dublin, ban it everywhere else.....

How can the river Shannon sustain Dublin's needs if it can't supply the Midlands ????

Because people aren't drinking water from lakes or rivers. There is a vital process in the middle called "treatment" which makes it drinkable. That is where the capacity is being exceeded, hence the hose pipe ban.

Nobody is saying that The Shannon or some lake in Clare is running out of water.

omega man · 06-07-2018 2:10pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

You seem to have lost the plot.

Because water is supplied to houses through general taxation you want free food?

You know exactly what I mean. Electricity is also supplied to houses but it’s not free. We should pay for this precious resource, specifically for high usage (but not to a private company I agree).

nice_guy80 · 06-07-2018 4:07pm

I don't have an issue with paying for it if I overuse the resource. Every household should be allowed a reasonable allowance

The problem I have is all those people who will never have to pay and might well be the worst wasters of water

Blazer · 06-07-2018 4:20pm

Benteke wrote: »

Denis O'Brien loves people like you

I highly doubt it since I never paid it.
And notice that I said that it shouldn't be privatised.

06-07-2018 4:25pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

A band aid over a gaping wound.

Meters don't make it rain more, or make the reservoirs bigger, or reduce the population of Dublin.

Even if there were meters in place it would only give a couple more weeks reprive before a hose-pipe ban got put in place. The drought isn't caused by a lack of metering. It's not even caused by the leaks in all the pipes. It due to the lack of rain.

Infrastructural investment, in the form of more numerous reservoirs, and replaced piping systems is important. Hopefully we might see it happen at some point. Nothing's stopping the government from investing in it.

We did invest a billion euro in Irish Water though. That's been really useful. :mad:

Is it not the result of demand being higher than treatment plants can produce? The rivers haven’t run dry yet.

Snickers Man · 06-07-2018 4:30pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

They have water meters in much of the UK and pay charges yet frequent hose pipe bans.....

Just think how bad it would be if they DIDN'T have water meters!!

They've 12-13 times our population and a similar climate in a land maybe double our size (if that).

That there are water shortages at all here is a disgrace of poor planning and management.

Water metering is going to have to come in at some stage. And we'll welcome it. We just had a populist moment of madness (you know, like voting for Trump, or for Brexit) at the tail end of the austerity era. Fortunately, we'll be able to correct it more easily than the Brits or Yanks will be able to sort out their idiocy.

Isn't it great to feel superior to entire nations?

Benteke · 06-07-2018 4:47pm

Blazer wrote: »

I highly doubt it since I never paid it.
And notice that I said that it shouldn't be privatised.

But it will be privatised if it was happen and now you would be willing to pay, While you have a new change of attitude you might as well ask the government if you can pay your paye twice while you're at it

Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

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