Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Yeah. It's about time we grew up and paid for our excess water.

Fixed that for you, Hector, no probs.

bluewizard

My strawberries are dead. I am filling in a claim against Irish Water.

nthclare

Irish water are a joke, they claim to own whats above and below the ground....

So whatever blows in from the atlantic is theirs, that's absolute bllsht...

Anybody who wants to harvest water or even start a water farm hasn't a leg to stand on....

They're lazy, they haven't come up with any transparent plans for anything.

I could design a water farm in my head that would work perfectly.

Another semi state body full of red tape etc

bluewizard

nthclare wrote: »

Irish water are a joke

..but, but sure the consultants, water meters, all worth millions...




****ers. Burn in hell.

beveragelady

nthclare wrote: »

Irish water are a joke, they claim to own whats above and below the ground....

So whatever blows in from the atlantic is theirs, that's absolute bllsht...

Anybody who wants to harvest water or even start a water farm hasn't a leg to stand on....

Are you saying they claim to own all the water?

kurtainsider

GreeBo wrote: »

This "paying twice" nonsense is really aggravating.

Its already been pointed out, but lets try one more time.

You cant use the "already paid for it" argument unless you are paying a thing thats specifically used for water.
General taxation pays for Education, Health, Roads, lighting, etc, etc and while some of it goes towards water, not enough goes to get or keep our water supply in the state we require it to be in.

Your argument is equivalent to expecting a free dessert because you already paid for your main course.

As for privatisation, do you really believe there is a crowd of people just dying to take over an entity that needs over €10 Billion spent on it before it will be economical to run and also its a service that they currently have no way of correctly identifying how much each user consumers?

Why would anyone in their right mind want to take over that business model?

We have a shortage of potable water because, again as pointed out earlier, it takes effort to treat and store drinkable water. Someone earlier made the poor argument that for other countries this weather is typical and they have no water issues....I'm assuming that person is aware this this is not normal weather for Ireland, anymore than they metres of snow we had 3 months ago were?

If you want a system that can guarantee potable water when the weather hits record highs and record lows for rainfall, then you can expect to pay massively over the odds for it....oh thats right, you dont want to pay at all because you think PAYE will magically cover it....its not loaves and fishes people.

Hello there GreeBo. Could I suggest that you do a bit of research into the politics of the whole setting up of Irish Water? While you're at it you might take a look at the rail privatization in the UK. Or even the banking system in Ireland over the last 15 years.

There's no risk to private owners because the government guarantees that they'll be made rich by taking it on and if things go south it'll be lobbed back onto the taxpayer to pick up any losses. It's the quintessential crony win win.

There is no question of a private operator putting up 10 billion. The taxpayer will put up the 10 billion and get things up to standard - then the private operator will take it over and milk it for their shareholders. If problems emerge they will bow out and the taxpayer (the people who indignantly tell anyone who'll listen that water must be paid for) will obligingly step up to relieve the private shareholders of their responsibilities.
It's a fantastically simple system actually - you just have to be amoral extremely cynical.

K.Flyer

Here's the thing, Irish Water couldn't organise the proverbial pi**up in a brewery. They have tried to re-invent the wheel too often when it came to water charging and f**ked it up so badly nobody has any faith in them ever getting it right and no government, for the moment, is willing to touch it because it is still a toxic subject.
Secondly, Irish Water have No Plans in place to meter Any apartment buildings, they never had.
This means, no matter what convoluted sh*te they come up with to try to charge for water, it will never be fair unless each and every property on a mains water supply is correctly metered.
For now, all we can hope for is to try and educate people on reducing excessive water consumption and fix leaks in a timely manner.
The message is getting through to some, I replaced 15 leaking ballcocks last week alone!
But others, unfortunately, will still have the attitude of FTW I'm filling the pool.

kurtainsider

beveragelady wrote: »

Why then do you continue to spout nonsense about being asked to pay for water twice? I want everybody to pay ONCE!

Beveragelady - water has been treated and distributed in the state since the year dot paid from general taxes. A few years ago they decided the install water meters and send people water bills. Taxes were't reduced to reflect the fact that water was no longer funded from taxation. That's an attempt the shake people down twice for water.
If you're happy to pay twice well good for you. I'm happy to pay just the once.

kurtainsider

Ardent wrote: »

Well said.

Well said, well said,well said,
You're the bull, you're the bull, you're the bull,

beveragelady

kurtainsider wrote: »

Beveragelady - water has been treated and distributed in the state since the year dot paid from general taxes. A few years ago they decided the install water meters and send people water bills. Taxes were't reduced to reflect the fact that water was no longer funded from taxation. That's an attempt the shake people down twice for water.
If you're happy to pay twice well good for you. I'm happy to pay just the once.

So water should be provided for free to a section of the population just because that's the way it has always been? Nonsense. Progress happens when people realise that "the way it has always been" isn't good enough.

You say all this as though there's a line on my paycheque telling me how much has been deducted specifically to pay for water. I pay tax, and it goes in a huge number of directions to keep the country running. I don't like paying tax but I don't have a choice so I try to be philosophical about it. It is, however, unjust that I pay for water for other people when it is possible to measure how much they use so they can pay for it themselves.

Your arguments are based on hypotheticals and hot air.

kurtainsider

beveragelady wrote: »

So water should be provided for free to a section of the population just because that's the way it has always been? Nonsense. Progress happens when people realise that "the way it has always been" isn't good enough.

You say all this as though there's a line on my paycheque telling me how much has been deducted specifically to pay for water. I pay tax, and it goes in a huge number of directions to keep the country running. I don't like paying tax but I don't have a choice so I try to be philosophical about it. It is, however, unjust that I pay for water for other people when it is possible to measure how much they use so they can pay for it themselves.

Your arguments are based on hypotheticals and hot air.

You've lost me there beveragelady. Anyway goodnight.

beveragelady

kurtainsider wrote: »

You've lost me there beveragelady. Anyway goodnight.

I'm counting this as a win.

kurtainsider

Do that beveragelady if it makes you happy.

Best of luck you.

beveragelady

kurtainsider wrote: »

Do that beveragelady if it makes you happy.

Best of luck you.

It does make me happy! Dr Phil says "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?"
Being right makes me happy.

Good of you to admit defeat and bow out gracefully.

kurtainsider

beveragelady wrote: »

It does make me happy! Dr Phil says "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?"
Being right makes me happy.

Good of you to admit defeat and bow out gracefully.

You're welcome beveragelady. There are people who you shouldn't engage in arguments with and you're one of them.

beveragelady

kurtainsider wrote: »

You're welcome beveragelady. There are people who you shouldn't engage in arguments with and you're one of them.

Arguing is fun until you're outgunned, it's true. Give the matter some thought and if you come up with any solid points or rebuttal I'll be happy to resume your education.

the_pen_turner

at the end of the day my tax (and everyone elses) is going towards IW who supply water to everyone with a mains conection for no further fee.
we have a well so receive nothing for that tax.

we also pay to drill, maintain ,soften esb, sewerage costs to supply ourslves with water .


so i am paying twice if not more what someone who is on a main conection is paying .

beveragelady

the_pen_turner wrote: »

at the end of the day my tax (and everyone elses) is going towards IW who supply water to everyone with a mains conection for no further fee.
we have a well so receive nothing for that tax.

we also pay to drill, maintain ,soften esb, sewerage costs to supply ourslves with water .


so i am paying twice if not more what someone who is on a main conection is paying .

What is strange though is how little airtime this viewpoint got when the Irish Water debacle was all over the airwaves. I offered a similar argument at work a while ago and a number of people had just never considered the possibility that there was another aspect to the story, or the possibility that the eejits roaring through megaphones or propping up bars preaching about the injustice of water meters were wrong.

Ubbquittious

the_pen_turner wrote: »

at the end of the day my tax (and everyone elses) is going towards IW who supply water to everyone with a mains conection for no further fee.
we have a well so receive nothing for that tax.

we also pay to drill, maintain ,soften esb, sewerage costs to supply ourslves with water .


so i am paying twice if not more what someone who is on a main conection is paying .

That might be true but it doesn't make IW any less of a pointless middleman with some nice offices in Dublin filled with people paid to market water to people. Perhaps they even have some people paid to prepare tor the day that you'll be able to ""switch"" water supplier similar to how you can switch to Panda electricity despite them having feck all to do with generating electricity or the infrastructure. The actual supplying of the actual water doesn't require IW or similar pointless entity to exist.


Like with electricity meters the charges disproportionally affect the less well off. You'll see some people short on cash skimping but plenty who won't mind paying a tenner to fill their Lidl swimming pool. That tenner won't go into replenishing the infrastructure either because they have all those digital marketing experts and social media ninjagurus in Dublin to pay at the end of each month

nthclare

beveragelady wrote: »

Are you saying they claim to own all the water?

Yes they claim to own what ever falls from the skies, runs down a mountain, lake's,streams clouds blowing in from the atlantic...humidity...frost...snow ice

They lay claim to it all, if Paudi down the road saves the water running off his gutter into a barrel for his goat, the water is theirs...
They had a right to charge him for it.

There's something really Orwellian about Irish water...

They tried to Fck us all "over"

Sure the cronies even wanted to dived us by getting us to rat out our neighbour's if we see them with a hose pipe...

A shower of ruthless narcissists they are...

beveragelady

nthclare wrote: »

Yes they claim to own what ever falls from the skies, runs down a mountain, lake's,streams clouds blowing in from the atlantic...humidity...frost...snow ice

They lay claim to it all, if Paudi down the road saves the water running off his gutter into a barrel for his goat, the water is theirs...
They had a right to charge him for it.

That's just not true. They own the means to provide water to those on the mains supply, they don't at all claim to own all the water in Ireland! They don't own the water in my well, but they own the pipes that bring water from their reservoirs to houses on the mains. That infrastructure is what needs to be paid for.

Electricity is free once you know how to generate it, but you're happy to let others take care of the infrastructure and technicalities and pay them for their time and expertise. Water is exactly the same.

Tell you what, if you really hate them that much, cut them off. Take care of your own water supply. Collect it, store it, purify it and pump it, all without any help from Irish Water. You'll quickly see that while water itself falls from the sky and rises out of the ground, it is an ongoing cost to have it flowing in your house on demand.

SuperS54

A possible solution to the whole "pay twice" issue is to give everyone a quota of water, if you come in under quota on your meter you get a tax rebate, over quota and you don't.

Ardent

SuperS54 wrote: »

A possible solution to the whole "pay twice" issue is to give everyone a quota of water, if you come in under quota on your meter you get a tax rebate, over quota and you don't.

Yes but part of the shambles, as said earlier, is that some folks on water mains don't have - nor will likely ever have- a meter. For example, those living in apartments.

SuperS54

Ardent wrote: »

Yes but part of the shambles, as said earlier, is that some folks on water mains don't have - nor will likely ever have- a meter. For example, those living in apartments.

Where there's a will there's a way. I've lived in apartments in China and they had water meters (actually prepaid meters so you had to pay for your water in advance), I've lived in quite a number of apartments in Taiwan and they also have all had water meters. Irish water seem to have spent a fortune on trying to re-invent the wheel.

Chris_Heilong

You all sound like a bunch of hippies, It is like this obsession with recycling...newsflash you are not making the world a better place and anything you do is just a drop in the ocean.

Mr.H

beveragelady wrote:

Tell you what, if you really hate them that much, cut them off. Take care of your own water supply. Collect it, store it, purify it and pump it, all without any help from Irish Water. You'll quickly see that while water itself falls from the sky and rises out of the ground, it is an ongoing cost to have it flowing in your house on demand.

Except one of their rules was that you were not allowed to harvest your own water.

Water has been and still is paid for through taxation.

And here is one further. This "drought" is a lie. We just came off the back of one of our worst ever winters. Record snow and rain. There should be no shortage of water. Its all lies to sell us jobs for the lads.

Irish water is a government entity. The only way that paying for water isnt a stealth tax is if you have competition in the market. But then again i doubt the pro charges campaign would even try to think for themselves let alone realise that.

2smiggy

my dad growing up had a well at the bottom of the village that people used to go down to pump their own water by hand. his thinking is people who want clean water pumped into their house should pay for it. all those who don't can go to a well and pump it themselves. as is their 'right' to water and all that.

nthclare

beveragelady wrote: »

That's just not true. They own the means to provide water to those on the mains supply, they don't at all claim to own all the water in Ireland! They don't own the water in my well, but they own the pipes that bring water from their reservoirs to houses on the mains. That infrastructure is what needs to be paid for.

Electricity is free once you know how to generate it, but you're happy to let others take care of the infrastructure and technicalities and pay them for their time and expertise. Water is exactly the same.

Tell you what, if you really hate them that much, cut them off. Take care of your own water supply. Collect it, store it, purify it and pump it, all without any help from Irish Water. You'll quickly see that while water itself falls from the sky and rises out of the ground, it is an ongoing cost to have it flowing in your house on demand.

You're 100% wrong Irish water lay claim to every drop of water that falls from the skies, melts in the winter, within the fog, clouds and bogs...

We pay for water through taxation already.

You mentioned hate not I

2smiggy

Mr.H wrote: »

And here is one further. This "drought" is a lie. We just came off the back of one of our worst ever winters. Record snow and rain. There should be no shortage of water. Its all lies to sell us jobs for the lads.

you do know there are finite reservoirs , and a limited capacity ? And you might notice in heavy rain the rivers may occasionally burst there banks due to the excess water, on there way to dumping the water back into the sea ?

the_pen_turner

Mr.H wrote: »

Except one of their rules was that you were not allowed to harvest your own water.

Water has been and still is paid for through taxation.

And here is one further. This "drought" is a lie. We just came off the back of one of our worst ever winters. Record snow and rain. There should be no shortage of water. Its all lies to sell us jobs for the lads.

Irish water is a government entity. The only way that paying for water isnt a stealth tax is if you have competition in the market. But then again i doubt the pro charges campaign would even try to think for themselves let alone realise that.

IW needs to be permanently part of the state. Referendum needed to sell it

Strip everything out of general tax

Limit staff wages to proper levels

Work out appropriate charges pet liter including a budget to up grade pipes

Government to set up grants to reduce water usage




Not sure how you could have other suppliers. Good idea but hard to implement.