Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

Donald Trump

Benteke wrote: »

Definition of stupidity is to pay for your water twice, So they can fcuk off

You might want to invest in a better dictionary.


Did you get a free one from Richard Boyd-Barret or something? :pac:

sbsquarepants

Surely in this day and age there is a better solution than treating every drop of water and then pumping it to a manky tank in the attic so it can be used for showers and flushing toilets!

This is a wet country - droughts are not an existential threat, it could be decades before we see a run of weather like this again. The problem is not lack of rain it's lack of processing capacity and the seemingly accepted fact that half of everything we do process, we basically just spill on the ground.

It is pointless telling people to conserve water, while simultaneously wasting half your water. I watered some of the plants out my back last night, just the ones that looked thirsty - I used a watering can and kept track of how much I used - 180L.

I could let them die and save enough water to keep the leaks going for roughly another 1/16th of 1 second - now wouldn't that just make all the difference. If I do that every second day for the month I've basically used 1 seconds worth of the water that's pissed away to god knows where.

Maybe worry about fixing that first and how people brush their teeth second!

beveragelady

Can anybody provide a link that shows that IW don't let you harvest your own water?

sbsquarepants

beveragelady wrote: »

Can anybody provide a link that shows that IW don't let you harvest your own water?

I'd be quite surprised to be honest!

BarryD2

Mr.H wrote: »

And here is one further. This "drought" is a lie. We just came off the back of one of our worst ever winters. Record snow and rain. There should be no shortage of water. Its all lies to sell us jobs for the lads.

Ranks with one of the most insular and uninformed things I've read from the anti-water charges mindset!

You wait & see - when public water supplies to greater Dublin lower to a trickle, you'll be begging for a solution, any solution, at any cost to yourselves.

Metering and payment towards usage is utterly logical and inevitable. It will encourage moderate use and help fund the repair of leaks that you continually refer to.

Wait for reality to bite.

wexie

beveragelady wrote: »

Can anybody provide a link that shows that IW don't let you harvest your own water?

I would be shocked if there was such a thing, can't imagine how it could possible be legal.

Perhaps large scale water harvesting but there is nothing to stop anyone from popping an IBC under the gutters to keep the vegetable patch going. If anything it should be encouraged.

Topgear on Dave

I would expect them to have rules about rainwater harvesting but only in the area of preventing untreated stored water accidentally flowing back in to the drinkable mains supply.

wexie

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I would expect them to have rules about rainwater harvesting but only in the area of preventing untreated stored water accidentally flowing back in to the drinkable mains supply.

Which would just be sensible really.

If there are any rules about water harvesting I would think it'd be more along the lines of : thou shalt not build dams on the streams on your property to water thy vegetable patch.

beveragelady

The closest I can find is that there would be a charge if the harvested water, once used, was processed through public sewerage. It's complete nonsense to suggest that there are (or were) rules against harvesting rainwater, or gathering your own water in any other way. In fact on the website they encourage rainwater harvesting to water gardens.
This is exactly the sort of stupid argument dim people made, and very dim people got worked up about, when there were protests against paying for water.

wexie

beveragelady wrote: »

The closest I can find is that there would be a charge if the harvested water, once used, was processed through public sewerage.

So bloody typical to set up a rule like that when they know they have absolutely no way of ever enforcing it or even know when to enforce it.

Like they were ever going to have meters on the sewage?

beveragelady

wexie wrote: »

So bloody typical to set up a rule like that when they know they have absolutely no way of ever enforcing it or even know when to enforce it.

Like they were ever going to have meters on the sewage?

Presumably it could only apply to those on public sewerage. A flat fee, maybe? Fair enough, I say, though unenforceable. Still, not the same as those wild claims that they own all the water and we can't collect it ourselves.

K.Flyer

wexie wrote: »

Like they were ever going to have meters on the sewage?

The basis for waste water treatment charging is based on Water In / Water Out. Its nothing new on commercial premises.

K.Flyer

beveragelady wrote: »

Can anybody provide a link that shows that IW don't let you harvest your own water?

Dublin City Council - Rainwater Harvesting

Well the Dublin City council encourages harvesting on their web site, so I doubt there are any restrictions on harvesting as long as its from your own property and you don't cause that water to contaminate the mains supply.

wexie

K.Flyer wrote: »

The basis for waste water treatment charging is based on Water In / Water Out. Its nothing new on commercial premises.

So is sewage already metered on commercial premises?

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

at the end of the day my tax (and everyone elses) is going towards IW who supply water to everyone with a mains conection for no further fee.
we have a well so receive nothing for that tax.

we also pay to drill, maintain ,soften esb, sewerage costs to supply ourslves with water .


so i am paying twice if not more what someone who is on a main conection is paying .

Do you feel hard done by that you dont get to drive on every stretch of road in Ireland considering its *your* tax pays for all the roads?

How about that you dont get to spend time in hospital everyday or that you don't get to use the light from every streetlight in Ireland every night?

I don't understand why people think water is magically different from all these other things?

If you want to be part of a functioning society then you dont get to pick and choose what your contributions get used for, all you can do is influence those that are elected.

my3cents

K.Flyer wrote: »

Dublin City Council - Rainwater Harvesting

Well the Dublin City council encourages harvesting on their web site, so I doubt there are any restrictions on harvesting as long as its from your own property and you don't cause that water to contaminate the mains supply.

I'm looking into the legality of taking water from the river that runs across my property. From research so far it seems that you can legally take up to 25,000 liters a day from a water source on you property without having any form of licence or even registering the fact.

Most of the information I can find about this is due to the fact that Ireland isn't up to speed with the EU and hasn't implemented a register of users that take more than 25,000 liters a day. It seems our laws on water abstraction are based on old English law.

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

Do you feel hard done by that you dont get to drive on every stretch of road in Ireland considering its *your* tax pays for all the roads?

How about that you dont get to spend time in hospital everyday or that you don't get to use the light from every streetlight in Ireland every night?

I don't understand why people think water is magically different from all these other things?

If you want to be part of a functioning society then you dont get to pick and choose what your contributions get used for, all you can do is influence those that are elected.

completely separate things.
I use the roads directly and indirectly. I am getting what I am paying for.

I don't use the public water . I have no way to. So I pay and receive nothing.

blackcard

beveragelady wrote: »

Can anybody provide a link that shows that IW don't let you harvest your own water?

Fake news

ectoraige

railer201 wrote: »

So let's suppose we all have water meters and are being charged €3 per 1000 litres (ballpark charge in UK). We go to Lidl and buy that swimming pool - bring it home and fill it for € 21. Is that all, sure let's power hose the driveway while we're at it - another few euro.

Where's the incentive to conserve, sounds like a bargain to me - we're paying for it now - let's get value.

Do you buy plastic bags every time you do the shopping? Sure at 22 cents per bag, it's only another €2 on the weeks shopping.


Pay as you go conversation measures actually work as public policy. Vartry may still be quite high, but what will it look like in another few months?



Rainfall has been well below average since February, the fear is there may not be significant rainfall for months to come. The water we have now might have to last us a long time.


The water infrastructure in Ireland is simply not fit for purpose. Improvements must be made, but must also be paid for. Yes, we generally have more than enough sources to allow us to use water liberally, but will require massive capital projects to pump water hundreds of kilometres, and build more resevoirs. If we can temper our requirement through metering, it reduces the size of the capital investment needed.

K.Flyer

wexie wrote: »

So is sewage already metered on commercial premises?

Not metered directly per se.
Its based on metered water consumption. In other words, if you use a cubic meter of water it is presumed that + / - of that is going back down the drains, hence water in / water out charge.

wexie

K.Flyer wrote: »

Not metered directly per se.
Its based on metered water consumption. In other words, if you use a cubic meter of water it is presumed that + / - of that is going back down the drains, hence water in / water out charge.

That's what I figured.

So my point of there being no way to charge for waste water that has been harvested still stands?

beveragelady

GreeBo wrote: »

Do you feel hard done by that you dont get to drive on every stretch of road in Ireland considering its *your* tax pays for all the roads?

How about that you dont get to spend time in hospital everyday or that you don't get to use the light from every streetlight in Ireland every night?

I don't understand why people think water is magically different from all these other things?

If you want to be part of a functioning society then you dont get to pick and choose what your contributions get used for, all you can do is influence those that are elected.

I pay road tax, I use the roads. Why would I need to use ALL the roads to feel I'm getting my money's worth?

I don't understand why you think water is "magically different" from electricity, or toothpaste, or custard, in that you pay for what you consume.

The streetlight thing is different. It's true, I pay for streetlights despite living just over 7km from one. I pay for streetsweeping too, and numerous other things that are part of urban living. These can't be measured though, so there's no way to tell how much any individual benefits, and water can. Just like electricity and toothpaste and custard.

nthclare

Somefink tells me we've a few Irish water staff in the mix with this topic, or else there's a few sock puppets....

Hitman3000

beveragelady wrote:

I pay road tax, I use the roads. Why would I need to use ALL the roads to feel I'm getting my money's worth?

No such thing as road tax.

beveragelady

nthclare wrote: »

Somefink tells me we've a few Irish water staff in the mix with this topic, or else there's a few sock puppets....

Because the facts and the logical arguments don't agree with your point of view?

Hitman3000 wrote: »

No such thing as road tax.

Did you not know what I meant? I'll explain. I meant motor tax, often called "road tax" by a generation older than I am. It's like calling the radio "the wireless" or a calculator a "ready reckoner." I'm sorry if I confused you, I hope it's cleared up now.

GreeBo

beveragelady wrote: »

I pay road tax, I use the roads. Why would I need to use ALL the roads to feel I'm getting my money's worth?

I don't understand why you think water is "magically different" from electricity, or toothpaste, or custard, in that you pay for what you consume.

You just answered your own question. You dont pay for what you consume when it comes to roads and yet you are fine with it, why do you have an issue paying a different amenity (i.e. water)

beveragelady wrote: »

The streetlight thing is different. It's true, I pay for streetlights despite living just over 7km from one. I pay for streetsweeping too, and numerous other things that are part of urban living. These can't be measured though, so there's no way to tell how much any individual benefits, and water can. Just like electricity and toothpaste and custard.

Not quite sure, but I get the feeling that you (incorrectly) think I am against water charges...

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

completely separate things.
I use the roads directly and indirectly. I am getting what I am paying for.

I don't use the public water . I have no way to. So I pay and receive nothing.

But you aren't using them all directly & indirectly, Im sure there are far more roads that you have never used than those that you have.

I could just as easily argue that you are using the water indirectly, even if you have your own well.

Hitman3000

beveragelady wrote:

Did you not know what I meant? I'll explain. I meant motor tax, often called "road tax" by a generation older than I am. It's like calling the radio "the wireless" or a calculator a "ready reckoner." I'm sorry if I confused you, I hope it's cleared up now.

Not at all confused thanks , surely you must be upset that cyclists don't pay 'road tax'? Like they use the roads for free.

sbsquarepants

ectoraige wrote: »

Rainfall has been well below average since February, the fear is there may not be significant rainfall for months to come. The water we have now might have to last us a long time.

.

You don't remember the flood warnings only 5 or 6 weeks ago? Storm Emma and the beast form the East was what 4 or 5 months ago? Remember all that stuff on the telly, hoping it would thaw slowly so we wouldn't all drown under the vast quantity of melt water!

I don't know what the actual figures are for the year - but I'd hazard a guess they aren't too much down on average. It's been a few weeks of nice weather. The rain will be back soon enough. It's hardly the Sahara now is it!

beveragelady

GreeBo wrote: »

But you aren't using them all directly & indirectly, Im sure there are far more roads that you have never used than those that you have.

I could just as easily argue that you are using the water indirectly, even if you have your own well.

But I can use all the road I want! It's not like I'm paying for other people to access a service that I can't access myself...

The well analogy is nonsense. I pay for the well. My tax contributions don't go towards my water supply, they go towards other people's. I pay for my water supply on top of paying for other people's. They don't contribute towards mine at all. There is no way you can pretend that is fair.