Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

K.Flyer

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Did he find out the water supply was a well before or after he bought the house?

He knew it was on a well beforehand and that it also had a septic tank. Given his occupation they were the first things he checked.

Elmer Blooker

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's an easy out. It all comes down to who you want believe. Is it the various political parties that have been running the state since it's foundation or those who are seeking to raise their profile and happy to run any agenda, mislead the public etc., in their pursuit of votes??

The idea that the water of Ireland and the impossibility of defining that, is to be sold off to some USA multi national is just baloney.

Not baloney actually. I would like to see Irish Water privatization a issue in the next General Election whenever that may be.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/privatisation-of-irish-water-possible-dail-hears-429879.html

Hitman3000

K.Flyer wrote:

He knew it was on a well beforehand and that it also had a septic tank. Given his occupation they were the first things he checked.

So he made a choice to buy a property without mains water or sewer. What's the issue?

the_pen_turner

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Eh no.
Nice attempted recovery though

Wayer mains dont pass all but the " most remote" places. A lot of Ireland isnt on mains water, even less on mains sewer.

Where I am in Tipperary , most people around me could get mains if they wanted to.
Of the 15 I know who have wells near me , 5 are farmers so slightly different .the other 10 including myself have the option of mains outside the gate.

Up in the hills is different I'm sure with more black spots, but I have been in some very remote areas up around upper church ,gortnahoo ,etc that have all had mains.

Almost no-one in the countryside has public sewers

K.Flyer

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So he made a choice to buy a property without mains water or sewer. What's the issue?

Who said there was an issue?

The J Stands for Jay

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You don't remember the flood warnings only 5 or 6 weeks ago? Storm Emma and the beast form the East was what 4 or 5 months ago? Remember all that stuff on the telly, hoping it would thaw slowly so we wouldn't all drown under the vast quantity of melt water!

I don't know what the actual figures are for the year - but I'd hazard a guess they aren't too much down on average. It's been a few weeks of nice weather. The rain will be back soon enough. It's hardly the Sahara now is it!

I've just been looking at the data for Dublin airport (too lazy to look anywhere else). Year to date, the rainfall is 107.3mm behind average.

James Brown

Never needed a penalty hanging over my head to stop running a tap. Never litter, despite no litter f***ing meter on me. It's just common sense even before the environment was such a political tennis ball.

We need money spent on the infrastructure. The rush to metering was a clue of something not being right. If the mains were in such a bad way, (and they are), why the urgency in setting up Dinny and company with a metering contract and a quango, to set up a billing system which wasn't fit for purpose or going to bring in the money needed anytime soon? Privatisation down the road.

Just to note, despite all the PR and spin it was the general public calling 'enough' did away with the con job.

BarryD2

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not baloney actually. I would like to see Irish Water privatization a issue in the next General Election whenever that may be.

Yawn, you obviously have a foot well in the anti water charges camp if you're interested in privatisation of water as GE issue The majority of public water users wouldn't give a toss, as long as the water keeps running and preferably they don't have to be bothered about how much they use and who wants to pay service charges anyway, when some will promise free?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never needed a penalty hanging over my head to stop running a tap.

Nor should anyone but when there are no consequences for inappropriate usage... lots of people will just use as much as they want. It's their entitlement.

Wheeliebin30

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never needed a penalty hanging over my head to stop running a tap. Never litter, despite no litter f***ing meter on me. It's just common sense even before the environment was such a political tennis ball.

We need money spent on the infrastructure. The rush to metering was a clue of something not being right. If the mains were in such a bad way, (and they are), why the urgency in setting up Dinny and company with a metering contract and a quango, to set up a billing system which wasn't fit for purpose or going to bring in the money needed anytime soon? Privatisation down the road.

Just to note, despite all the PR and spin it was the general public calling 'enough' did away with the con job.

Have you any figures to back up your claim the “general public” called enough???

Mister Vain

[URL="[img]https://i.imgur.com/DwwYIV5.jpg[/img]"][/URL]

gandalf

If only they spent all that money wasted on the water meters on repairing and upgrading the pipes that were leaking the most.

Wheeliebin30

gandalf wrote: »

If only they spent all that money wasted on the water meters on repairing and upgrading the pipes that were leaking the most.

And then you would pay for water?

Yeahhhhh right.

Sooof.

gandalf

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And then you would pay for water?

Yeahhhhh right.

Sooof.

Yep I do believe water charges will come in at some stage. The two mistakes made was not to address the biggest leaks first and to try to introduce the charges at the height of the recession.

whisky_galore

Saw someone washing their caravan at a garage (yes you've guessed who the owners were! They're entitled to it...)

Shouldn't the garages have their token operated washers shut down as well for the duration?

sbsquarepants

McGaggs wrote: »

I've just been looking at the data for Dublin airport (too lazy to look anywhere else). Year to date, the rainfall is 107.3mm behind average.

Thanks McGaggs.

Averaged over how long? Where are you getting those numbers from?

I couldn't find any up to date figures - anything I could find only went as far as May. Not missing much - except the 1 bone dry month dry month so obviously that could skew the picture considerably!

For what it's worth, this is total rainfall @ Dublin airport for the months Jan to May for the past 5 years.

2018 - 294.1mm
2017 - 183.9mm (inc. june 270.3mm)
2016 - 349.4mm (inc. june 408mm)
2015 - 273.9mm (inc. june 288mm)
2014 - 368.5mm (inc. june 404.7mm)

There was no crisis in 2017 or 2015 that I can recall and even with no rain whatsoever in June we are ahead of those years. (Obviously you'd have to consider the whole country not just Dublin airport, but that was just the example you gave)

The J Stands for Jay

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Thanks McGaggs.

Averaged over how long? Where are you getting those numbers from?

I couldn't find any up to date figures - anything I could find only went as far as May. Not missing much - except the 1 bone dry month dry month so obviously that could skew the picture considerably!

For what it's worth, this is total rainfall @ Dublin airport for the months Jan to May for the past 5 years.

2018 - 294.1mm
2017 - 183.9mm (inc. june 270.3mm)
2016 - 349.4mm (inc. june 408mm)
2015 - 273.9mm (inc. june 288mm)
2014 - 368.5mm (inc. june 404.7mm)

There was no crisis in 2017 or 2015 that I can recall and even with no rain whatsoever in June we are ahead of those years. (Obviously you'd have to consider the whole country not just Dublin airport, but that was just the example you gave)

The average is from 1981 to 2010.

https://www.met.ie/climate/available-data/monthly-data

I wanted figures for the whole country, but, like I said, I was being lazy. It's still interesting. It's still early days, but the zero figure for the current month stands out.

I have a vague recollection of being told to conserve water in recent years, but I couldn't say for sure which years.

markodaly

There are some facebook posts going around by a group who call themselves 'Expose Fake Drought News'.
These people are pure and utter nutters. Nothing better to be doing than living off the state and coming up with this weird nonsense.

JupiterKid

This prolonged heatwave has dried up all the grass. I was out for a drive in Kildare/Laois/Carlow yesterday evening and the countryside resembles Northern California - very strange to see a non-green Ireland.

Apparently a big rain storm may be on its way by the weekend. Im actually looking forward to some rain!

my3cents

JupiterKid wrote: »

This prolonged heateave has dried up all the grass. I was out for a drive in Kildare/Laois/Carlow yesterday evening and the countryside resembles Northern California - very strange to see a non-green Ireland.

Apparently a big rain strom may be on its way by the weekend. Im actually looking forward to some rain!

Three days of decent rain and we'll all be moaning for the good old days of the drought again.

NinetyTwoTeam

If water charges had gone ahead we would still have these issues. A few dry weeks and the wettest country in the world is having issues with water that tells you how incompetent our government is.

Incompetent and corrupt - which is why meters were put in before leaks were fixed. The charge was set up to extract money from people and filter it to all the boys in the golden circle, like Hubert Kearns who bankrupted Sligo, got a 6 figure golden handshake, and a big fat pension, and then ON TOP of that, was given a seat on the board of Irish Water. When that man was in charge of Sligo there were stories in the paper saying the streetlights might have to be turned off as the council couldn't pay the ESB.

If you think the hosepipe ban is because people didn't pay water charges, you are a reactionary moron.

People were fed up giving money to incompetent and corrupt organizations and getting nothing for it or having it be wasted. They were done with being robbed and we already pay for water. obviously, it was not free, ever. you don't get anything free in this country, but people think water has been free all these years?

if the water charge would have gone ahead, this drought would still have happened and the ban would still be in place.

and guess what else? they would use it as an excuse to raise the charge for next year. guaranteed. just like they want to use it as an excuse to bring it back in but are too afraid to.

once the bin charges came in they rose drastically every year, greenstar even raised twice a year, and irish water would be an even bigger monopoly. you should be thanking those of us that prevented you getting fleeced, not blaming us for a drought that Irish Water wouldn't have been equipped to handle even if the charge had been collected anyway.

my3cents

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If water charges had gone ahead we would still have these issues. A few dry weeks and the wettest country in the world is having issues with water that tells you how incompetent our government is.

Incompetent and corrupt - which is why meters were put in before leaks were fixed. The charge was set up to extract money from people and filter it to all the boys in the golden circle, like Hubert Kearns who bankrupted Sligo, got a 6 figure golden handshake, and a big fat pension, and then ON TOP of that, was given a seat on the board of Irish Water. When that man was in charge of Sligo there were stories in the paper saying the streetlights might have to be turned off as the council couldn't pay the ESB.

If you think the hosepipe ban is because people didn't pay water charges, you are a reactionary moron.

People were fed up giving money to incompetent and corrupt organizations and getting nothing for it or having it be wasted. They were done with being robbed and we already pay for water. obviously, it was not free, ever. you don't get anything free in this country, but people think water has been free all these years?

if the water charge would have gone ahead, this drought would still have happened and the ban would still be in place.

and guess what else? they would use it as an excuse to raise the charge for next year. guaranteed. just like they want to use it as an excuse to bring it back in but are too afraid to.

once the bin charges came in they rose drastically every year, greenstar even raised twice a year, and irish water would be an even bigger monopoly. you should be thanking those of us that prevented you getting fleeced, not blaming us for a drought that Irish Water wouldn't have been equipped to handle even if the charge had been collected anyway.

While I am in full agreement with you the argument for charges in these dry times is that if you have to pay for what you use then you will make better use of it and not waste it.

In the UK the cost is so high in some areas that people think twice before using water.

GreeBo

gandalf wrote: »

Yep I do believe water charges will come in at some stage. The two mistakes made was not to address the biggest leaks first and to try to introduce the charges at the height of the recession.

When you say "first" do you mean before water charges come in or are you just talking about priority of repairs?

Part of the reason for meters was to determine where the biggest leaks are.

We need billions to fix the leaks, we need meters and charges to get the loans for the billions, so no matter how you look at it, we need people paying for water by consumption and metres before we can do very much to improve things.

GreeBo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Thanks McGaggs.

Averaged over how long? Where are you getting those numbers from?

I couldn't find any up to date figures - anything I could find only went as far as May. Not missing much - except the 1 bone dry month dry month so obviously that could skew the picture considerably!

For what it's worth, this is total rainfall @ Dublin airport for the months Jan to May for the past 5 years.

2018 - 294.1mm
2017 - 183.9mm (inc. june 270.3mm)
2016 - 349.4mm (inc. june 408mm)
2015 - 273.9mm (inc. june 288mm)
2014 - 368.5mm (inc. june 404.7mm)

There was no crisis in 2017 or 2015 that I can recall and even with no rain whatsoever in June we are ahead of those years. (Obviously you'd have to consider the whole country not just Dublin airport, but that was just the example you gave)

The average doesnt for the yeah wont help since we had very wet weather at the start of the year. You cant bank all that water for the dry times as any excess will bypass storage/treatment and go back into the ground/sea.

You need monthly or weekly comparisons against the norm to determine where we are now.

_Dara_

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If water charges had gone ahead we would still have these issues. A few dry weeks and the wettest country in the world is having issues with water that tells you how incompetent our government is.

Incompetent and corrupt - which is why meters were put in before leaks were fixed. The charge was set up to extract money from people and filter it to all the boys in the golden circle, like Hubert Kearns who bankrupted Sligo, got a 6 figure golden handshake, and a big fat pension, and then ON TOP of that, was given a seat on the board of Irish Water. When that man was in charge of Sligo there were stories in the paper saying the streetlights might have to be turned off as the council couldn't pay the ESB.

If you think the hosepipe ban is because people didn't pay water charges, you are a reactionary moron.

People were fed up giving money to incompetent and corrupt organizations and getting nothing for it or having it be wasted. They were done with being robbed and we already pay for water. obviously, it was not free, ever. you don't get anything free in this country, but people think water has been free all these years?

if the water charge would have gone ahead, this drought would still have happened and the ban would still be in place.

and guess what else? they would use it as an excuse to raise the charge for next year. guaranteed. just like they want to use it as an excuse to bring it back in but are too afraid to.

once the bin charges came in they rose drastically every year, greenstar even raised twice a year, and irish water would be an even bigger monopoly. you should be thanking those of us that prevented you getting fleeced, not blaming us for a drought that Irish Water wouldn't have been equipped to handle even if the charge had been collected anyway.

Ireland is nowhere close to being the wettest country in the world. It’s not even the wettest country in Europe.

monkeybutter

GreeBo wrote: »

The average doesnt for the yeah wont help since we had very wet weather at the start of the year. You cant bank all that water for the dry times as any excess will bypass storage/treatment and go back into the ground/sea.

You need monthly or weekly comparisons against the norm to determine where we are now.

But thats exactly what happens, how much water is left in reserve in Dublin.

A woman was on the news from irish water, and this happens most years, saying they had 150 days of water left and really wanted 200

Now I can't find those figures anywhere, but it ties in with other years

So theres plenty of water in the resvevoirs

The problem is leakage, Dublin is at near capacity in usage because of it, giving no room for maneuver when usage goes up

This is the same reason a few days of snow also results in restrictions.

I reckon it will rain in the next 150 days somehow.

James Brown

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Have you any figures to back up your claim the “general public” called enough???

I didn't count the tens of thousands out marching and protesting, but I personally knew a lot of people who took part and to suggest any of them, or the lions share of protesters were PBP/Paul Murphy supporters just isn't accurate. The polls would testify to that. It makes great spin for a FG/Lab government at odds with the public mind. In fact I personally know a number of Fine Gael supporters who protested.

James Brown

my3cents wrote: »

Three days of decent rain and we'll all be moaning for the good old days of the drought again.

Floods more like.

GreeBo

monkeybutter wrote: »

But thats exactly what happens, how much water is left in reserve in Dublin.

A woman was on the news from irish water, and this happens most years, saying they had 150 days of water left and really wanted 200

Now I can't find those figures anywhere, but it ties in with other years

So theres plenty of water in the resvevoirs

The problem is leakage, Dublin is at near capacity in usage because of it, giving no room for maneuver when usage goes up

This is the same reason a few days of snow also results in restrictions.

I reckon it will rain in the next 150 days somehow.

Thats not how it happens.
If you have a 1ML reservoir and expect 1ML to normally fall every month then you cant expect it to all magically work if you get no rain for 2 Months and then 300ML in the third month!

If the problem was leakage then the weather would be irrelevant!

IW are worried about the upcoming, typically driest months (August & September) rather than right now.
There is loads of water for right now, but typically we rely on "right now" to be adding capacity, not removing it.

Snow leads to restrictions because you cant drink snow.
Melted snow (i.e. water) can be treated, so freezing temperatures and snow dont increase supplies, they decrease them.

Water table is ~900MM lower than expected at this time of year, I dont fancy 900MM over 3 days, but maybe you know more about this than the rest of us....

sbsquarepants

GreeBo wrote: »

The average doesnt for the yeah wont help since we had very wet weather at the start of the year. You cant bank all that water for the dry times as any excess will bypass storage/treatment and go back into the ground/sea.

You need monthly or weekly comparisons against the norm to determine where we are now.

Do you have these comparisons?

Anecdotally I drove past blessington lakes the other day - they looked much like they do any other day. The liffey runs behind my house, it hasn't slowed to a trickle or anything!

There's plenty of water in the system - there's a shortage of capacity in the treatment of it, because for every litre we clean and process we effectively spill 500ml down the drain.

That is the problem - not the weather, the weather is a god damn blessing.

This is not Ethiopia, the rain will be back soon enough. For the time being, good riddance to it!

monkeybutter

GreeBo wrote: »

Thats not how it happens.
If you have a 1ML reservoir and expect 1ML to normally fall every month then you cant expect it to all magically work if you get no rain for 2 Months and then 300ML in the third month!

If the problem was leakage then the weather would be irrelevant!

IW are worried about the upcoming, typically driest months (August & September) rather than right now.
There is loads of water for right now, but typically we rely on "right now" to be adding capacity, not removing it.

Snow leads to restrictions because you cant drink snow.
Melted snow (i.e. water) can be treated, so freezing temperatures and snow dont increase supplies, they decrease them.

Water table is ~900MM lower than expected at this time of year, I dont fancy 900MM over 3 days, but maybe you know more about this than the rest of us....

that is how it works

the problem is leakage, not supply of water

look at what Irish water say, They produce an amount and the usage is above it

not they have no water

its the same with snow, you think they empty the reservoirs in 5 days of snow, after a winter of rain

Usage has gone up, this is down to the weather.

They don't plan for water to run out in 1 week

They are running the supply of clean water to close to its usage, with 50% or so of it leaking out, that's the problem