Denis O'Brien, Catherine Murphy and the threatening lawsuit letters....

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:03pm #1

Denis O'Brien's lawyers have had a busy day sending letters to various media outlets (including the Broadsheet, who have bravely refused to cave) regarding his interactions with IBRC (Irish Bank Resolution Corporation).

Funny thing... the Oireachtas debates enjoy a privileged position in Irish society in that they are protected speech and TD's cant be sued for what they say on the floor. Neat huh!

That extends to the records kept of those debates.

Some of those records are even kept online.

Page 27, paragraph 3 is fascinating.

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 10:04pm

Exactly how can you stop reporting for publicly available information ? It's a simple as that it's in the public domain.

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:05pm

Wow... they even made a film of it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT3KLVWc5tk

silverfeather · 28-05-2015 10:06pm

DeVore wrote: »

Denis O'Brien's lawyers have had a busy day sending letters to various media outlets (including the Broadsheet, who have bravely refused to cave) regarding his interactions with IBRC (Irish Bank Resolution Corporation).

It's why the media won't tough him. Fear of powerful litigation is ....powerful.

Banjo String · 28-05-2015 10:06pm

DeVore wrote: »

Denis O'Brien's lawyers have had a busy day sending letters to various media outlets (including the Broadsheet, who have bravely refused to cave) regarding his interactions with IBRC (Irish Bank Resolution Corporation).

Funny thing... the Oireachtas debates enjoy a privileged position in Irish society in that they are protected speech and TD's cant be sued for what they say on the floor. Neat huh!

That extends to the records kept of those debates.

Some of those records are even kept online.

Page 27, paragraph 3 is fascinating.

I will be very proudly giving Catherine a vote come election time, one of the very few politicians we have that is actually working in the best interest of the very people that elected her.

Todays acrions were a stroke of genius! Bravo Catherine.

Edit FG have just released a press statement

TallGlass · 28-05-2015 10:06pm

For someone trying to hide his personal banking matters he is going above and beyond to get this matter silenced, which absolutely stinks to me.

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:07pm

Not so simple, Irish law is not what you see on CSI or Law & Order... you can (and he has) quite easily stop the reporting of information ... that's why what Catherine did today is really important, its one of the few areas where things that are said cant be erased or quashed.

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 10:08pm

silverfeather wrote: »

It's why the media won't tough him. Fear of powerful litigation is ....powerful.

How can you litigate against reporting of publicly available information. You would have to somehow get the information removed from the Dail transcripts and remove the Dail videos all protected.

silverfeather · 28-05-2015 10:08pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Exactly how can you stop reporting for publicly available information ? It's a simple as that it's in the public domain.

It's not in the media domain though which mean certain people will not or cannot talk about it. Then it becomes not about freedom of information but lack of freedom of speech for certain people. Professional journalists are tied just as in the time of Haughey.

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:09pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How can you litigate against reporting of publicly available information. You would have to somehow get the information removed from the Dail transcripts and remove the Dail videos all protected.

Exactly.

You go and find me the (previously available) reportage from Irish media today on the content of that speech. You wont find it because they've removed it.

Hence one of the few places you CAN find it is on the protected Oireachtas site.

silverfeather · 28-05-2015 10:09pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How can you litigate against reporting of publicly available information. You would have to somehow get the information removed from the Dail transcripts and remove the Dail videos all protected.

You can litigate who reprints it for libel. Or imply other measures will be taken.

Chucken · 28-05-2015 10:10pm

silverfeather wrote: »

It's not in the media domain though which mean certain people will not or cannot talk about it. Then it becomes not about freedom of information but lack of freedom of speech for certain people. Professional journalists are tied just as in the time of Haughey.

It's on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT3KLVWc5tk

silverfeather · 28-05-2015 10:11pm

The dogs in the street will know what journalists say they didn't. Just like after every other scandal.

goat2 · 28-05-2015 10:11pm

it is worldwide right now, showing favouriteism to one individual, are fg and labour favouring him or miss murphy

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 10:11pm

silverfeather wrote: »

You can litigate who reprints it for libel. Or imply other measures will be taken.

Is freedom of speech not in the constitution ? I'm not talking about everything like being Racist or hate. There are laws covering that.

silverfeather · 28-05-2015 10:11pm

Chucken wrote: »

It's on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT3KLVWc5tk

But why then is the professional Irish media ignoring it?

TallGlass · 28-05-2015 10:12pm

So this is what he was trying to keep out of the media.

I understand that Mr. O'Brien was enjoying a rate of approximately 1.25% when IBRC could, and arguably should, have been charging 7.5%. Given that we are talking about outstanding sums of upwards of €500 million, the interest rate applied is not an insignificant issue for the public interest.

Well. I'm lost for words. Why in gods name was he getting a rate so low, this deal has robbed the tax payer of millions in interest. To me this is a little more serious than a personal banking issue, the judge has some questions to answer on this I would imagine now.

Amazing how banks can't lower interest rates for mortgage holders, yet can manage to drop more than 5% for one man!

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 10:13pm

TallGlass wrote: »

So this is what he was trying to keep out of the media.

Well. I'm lost for words. Why in gods name was he getting a rate so low, this deal has robbed the tax payer of €500 million.

Amazing how banks can't lower interest rates for mortgage holders, yet can manage to drop more than 5% for one man!

Don't forget the write downs...

Chucken · 28-05-2015 10:13pm

silverfeather wrote: »

But why then is the professional Irish media ignoring it?

They're all scared of Dinny. Fair play to Broadsheet for leaving it up.

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:15pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Is freedom of speech not in the constitution ? I'm not talking about everything like being Racist or hate. There are laws covering that.

No there is no freedom of speech right in our constitution, that's America you are thinking of unfortunately.

You can read what Broadsheet are under threat of here: http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/05/28/redacteds-1-25-interest-rate/ (down the bottom of the article)

wmpdd3 · 28-05-2015 10:15pm

Watch it disappear from youtube!

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:16pm

silverfeather wrote: »

But why then is the professional Irish media ignoring it?

They're not ignoring it... they have been sent letters threatening lawsuits if they didn't take down their reportage of it.

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 10:17pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Watch it disappear from youtube!

YT are not an Irish media outlet.

Uncle Ben · 28-05-2015 10:17pm

TallGlass wrote: »

So this is what he was trying to keep out of the media.

Well. I'm lost for words. Why in gods name was he getting a rate so low, this deal has robbed the tax payer of €500 million. To me this is a little more serious than a personal banking issue, the judge has some questions to answer on this I would imagine now.

Amazing how banks can't lower interest rates for mortgage holders, yet can manage to drop more than 5% for one man!

Lol. And when you contrast that with how Noonan and FG are treating SVR mortgage holders. No 1.25% rate for the ordinary plebs.

goat2 · 28-05-2015 10:17pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Watch it disappear from youtube!

it can disappear when it likes, it has been seen worldwide right now, fair dues to her for letting us know the truth, and he think he will get us to pay for water that is already paid from car tax money, he is definately dreaming,

RecordStraight · 28-05-2015 10:19pm

silverfeather wrote: »

It's why the media won't tough him. Fear of powerful litigation is ....powerful.

Huge problem with our libel laws. Our laws are so restrictive it kills investigative reporting ---> huge scope for corruption.

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:19pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

YT are not an Irish media outlet.

They can abuse the copyright system to get it taken down (one of the many reasons I've been fighting those dumb copyright laws recently).

the evasion_kid · 28-05-2015 10:19pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Watch it disappear from youtube!

Can anyone save it?

Nate--IRL-- · 28-05-2015 10:20pm

I wonder who will win out.... DOB and public apathy, or the Constitution (15.12) and Freedom of information.

Nate

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 10:22pm

DeVore wrote: »

No there is no freedom of speech right in our constitution, that's America you are thinking of unfortunately.

You can read what Broadsheet are under threat of here: http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/05/28/redacteds-1-25-interest-rate/ (down the bottom of the article)

Seems very very odd, Can a judge rule on what a protected individual can say ? Could the Ruling be challenged ?

Freedom of expression
You have a right to freely express your convictions and opinions. However, the Constitution asserts that the State should try to make sure that the radio, the press and the cinema are not used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State. It also states that it is an offence to publish or utter blasphemous, seditious or indecent matter.
There are some limitations on your freedom of expression. For example, the Censorship of Publications Acts and the Censorship of Films Acts allow censorship of publications like books, films and DVDs.

Mechanical Clocktail · 28-05-2015 10:22pm

The slimy little Maltesian.

darkpagandeath · 28-05-2015 10:23pm

DeVore wrote: »

They can abuse the copyright system to get it taken down (one of the many reasons I've been fighting those dumb copyright laws recently).

Is Dail Tv copyrighted ? Thought it was public available without restrictions.

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:26pm

The problem is that if you PUBLISH something which is libellous, you can be held accountable for the libel therein. Ok, kinda sounds fine on the face of it.

BUT... if someone powerful threatens to SUE you over something that might or might not be libellous... you wont know until you take a BIG gamble on the legal costs (could run into 100k+ easy). So, what do you do... you play it safe and take the piece down. Which is what has been happening.

Its also why I haven't reproduced the piece here.. I've pointed you to where you can find it (in its lovely little protected space

)

Chucken · 28-05-2015 10:27pm

Mechanical Clocktail wrote: »

The slimy little Maltesian.

No need to insult the people of Malta over that slimeball.

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:27pm

From Broadsheet's piece:

Scary update: Solicitors acting for Denis O’Brien have asked us to remove this post asserting that it is a breach of a High Court Order [O’Brien Vs RTÉ]. They gave a 7pm deadline or they would begin injunction proceedings. We have replied that article 15.12 of the constitution allows all Dáil statements “wherever published” to be privileged and we currently await their response.

Update: In response, Denis O’Brien’s legal representative said the High Court ruling “covers what could be reported about what was said in the Dáil by Catherine Murphy” and again put us ‘on notice’. Unfortunately The judge in the case never revealed the terms of the injunction. In a statement tonight Catherine Murphy said: “I am a public representative. Information came to me, from a number of reliable sources, that is, without doubt, in the public interest. I have a duty to put that information into the public domain and I fully intend to fulfill my democratic mandate.”

That's how its done folks...

TallGlass · 28-05-2015 10:28pm

Removal from Youtube or not. That piece on the Dail website is going no where.

I am more interested in why the judge ruling this case felt it was in best interest of the people not to know about this? This seems extremely serious to me.

Think about it, after all the banks been bailed out after scandals, the judge over seeing this case decided to rule in Dennis favour after it clear as day something is going on, why on gods name would a bank drop there interest rate so low for one man, unless something seriously dodgy was going on?

Even if SiteServ was worth nothing, a bank wouldn't drop repayments so low. I am not a banker, but going by my personal loans and reading the papers at the moment, banks seem to have massive problems dropping even dropping tiny % amounts from mortgage holders repayment, so for me looking at that drop Dennis has gotten. I would be seriously questioning whats going on here.

So maybe this judge is living under a rock? The banking system has again pulled a fast one on us as taxpayers, the judge has gone and agreed that this practice was fair and reasonable. Well judge if that is the case, why can the goverment force the banks now to drop there rates.

silverfeather · 28-05-2015 10:28pm

DeVore wrote: »

The problem is that if you PUBLISH something which is libellous, you can be held accountable for the libel therein. Ok, kinda sounds fine on the face of it.

BUT... if someone powerful threatens to SUE you over something that might or might not be libellous... you wont know until you take a BIG gamble on the legal costs (could run into 100k+ easy). So, what do you do... you play it safe and take the piece down. Which is what has been happening.

It's almost becoming a permanent gag on rte these days though and our news is becoming more and more tepid because of it.

Zebra3 · 28-05-2015 10:30pm

Will people remember this at the next GE or put their heads in the sand and vote for DOB's besties in FG again?

Streetwalker · 28-05-2015 10:31pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Watch it disappear from youtube!

Won't matter all over facebook and other social media now. I urge everyone to send a link of todays events to friends and family. This man needs to be stopped for the sake of our democracy.

FalconGirl · 28-05-2015 10:31pm

The people of the country need to row in behind Catherine. Far too many have their heads in the sand.

Streetwalker · 28-05-2015 10:33pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Will people remember this at the next GE or put their heads in the sand and vote for DOB's besties in FG again?

People don't give a hoot as long as the jobs are being created and the economy is improving. That said people need to be reminded of the FF years and how ignoring blatant corruption turned out for us all.

The Backwards Man · 28-05-2015 10:33pm

He's behind you!!!

Booo!!!! Hissssss!!!

Everybody needs a pantomime villain eh?

DeVore · 28-05-2015 10:34pm

We need to vote in more independents who aren't cowed by their "political party" and afraid to speak up for fear of losing the whip (read: cash to get reelected).

The very best people in our dail are independents. Not all the independents, fine, but most of the best politicians in there are independents.

smurgen · 28-05-2015 10:34pm

DeVore wrote: »

From Broadsheet's piece:

Scary update: Solicitors acting for Denis O’Brien have asked us to remove this post asserting that it is a breach of a High Court Order [O’Brien Vs RTÉ]. They gave a 7pm deadline or they would begin injunction proceedings. We have replied that article 15.12 of the constitution allows all Dáil statements “wherever published” to be privileged and we currently await their response.

Update: In response, Denis O’Brien’s legal representative said the High Court ruling “covers what could be reported about what was said in the Dáil by Catherine Murphy” and again put us ‘on notice’. Unfortunately The judge in the case never revealed the terms of the injunction. In a statement tonight Catherine Murphy said: “I am a public representative. Information came to me, from a number of reliable sources, that is, without doubt, in the public interest. I have a duty to put that information into the public domain and I fully intend to fulfill my democratic mandate.”

That's how its done folks...

Fair play to the woman! We need people like her representing us!It's refreshing to see a politician putting their neck on the line for their principles and for the good of the country as a whole.

silverfeather · 28-05-2015 10:34pm

FalconGirl wrote: »

The people of the country need to row in behind Catherine. Far too many have their heads in the sand.

I think the public will and social media I don't think she can expect stron support from peers or official media though. I read a little about this before and her reporting on How Noonan's feelings were so different publically from privately.

hatrickpatrick · 28-05-2015 10:35pm

DeVore wrote: »

Funny thing... the Oireachtas debates enjoy a privileged position in Irish society in that they are protected speech and TD's cant be sued for what they say on the floor. Neat huh!

The interesting question which should be answered over the next little while is whether D'OB enjoys a more or less privileged position in Irish society than our constitution.

Sadly, I personally don't feel at all confident enough to pre-judge the answer.

FalconGirl · 28-05-2015 10:35pm

TallGlass wrote: »

Removal from Youtube or not. That piece on the Dail website is going no where.

I am more interested in why the judge ruling this case felt it was in best interest of the people not to know about this? This seems extremely serious to me.

Think about it, after all the banks been bailed out after scandals, the judge over seeing this case decided to rule in Dennis favour after it clear as day something is going on, why on gods name would a bank drop there interest rate so low for one man, unless something seriously dodgy was going on?

Even if SiteServ was worth nothing, a bank wouldn't drop repayments so low. I am not a banker, but going by my personal loans and reading the papers at the moment, banks seem to have massive problems dropping even dropping tiny % amounts from mortgage holders repayment, so for me looking at that drop Dennis has gotten. I would be seriously questioning whats going on here.

So maybe this judge is living under a rock? The banking system has again pulled a fast one on us as taxpayers, the judge has gone and agreed that this practice was fair and reasonable. Well judge if that is the case, why can the goverment force the banks now to drop there rates.

A FG appointed judge. FG have been heavily linked with DOB. Sometimes the most obvious thing is really the truth. We are a cosy little country. Thank god for social media!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1030/655827-high-court/

RecordStraight · 28-05-2015 10:36pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Will people remember this at the next GE or put their heads in the sand and vote for DOB's besties in FG again?

This is to do with Anglo - there's no evidence that Noonan was anything but absolutely furious about the deal when he learned about it (after it was all done). And I think that Noonan is a pretty sh!tty Minister of Finance.

TallGlass · 28-05-2015 10:38pm

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Considering this is Ireland. I'd say the judge in question was well rewarded for his decision. And no doubt a golden hand shake plus inflated pension before any Tribunal can be arsed to look into it.

Another Tribunal, the answer to everything. My arse, get this in front of the EU ASAP. Bankers/business men still up to no good and the EU still in **** over it.

I don't want to see DOB locked up, I want to see him hit with a massive fine, billions if possible he doesn't deserve half of what he has, most of it on the foot of the tax payer by the looks of what I read online.

Ireland cannot do this because the goverment are retarded, someone should bring this to Europe. They won't bat an eyelid at him and his scare tactics, in fact it would enrage them more . Hopefully hit him with a massive fine and trust me he can't go running from the EU.

I actually feel contacting someone in the German goverment would do more than contacting a local TD.

weldoninhio · 28-05-2015 10:38pm

DeVore wrote: »

The problem is that if you PUBLISH something which is libellous, you can be held accountable for the libel therein. Ok, kinda sounds fine on the face of it.

BUT... if someone powerful threatens to SUE you over something that might or might not be libellous... you wont know until you take a BIG gamble on the legal costs (could run into 100k+ easy). So, what do you do... you play it safe and take the piece down. Which is what has been happening.

Its also why I haven't reproduced the piece here.. I've pointed you to where you can find it (in its lovely little protected space )

You can not be sued for reporting something that has been said in the Dail.

Chucken · 28-05-2015 10:39pm

FalconGirl wrote: »

A FG appointed judge. FG have been heavily linked with DOB. Sometimes the most obvious thing is really the truth. We are a cosy little country. Thank god for social media!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1030/655827-high-court/

I think it's just dawning on them that we have voices and opinions. They got away long enough with only letting us know what they wanted us to know.

Denis O'Brien, Catherine Murphy and the threatening lawsuit letters....

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