Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

Duckworth_Luas · 15-06-2019 10:14pm

janfebmar wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

I disagree with your previous assertion that there aren't really Irish politicians that see the working class as "lesser" people but I do wish the Tory party wasn't led by so much toffs. They're generally out of touch with the real world.

People like our Taoiseach and Tanaiste went to private schools here (in the UK they are called public schools). By contrast. Not all Tories went to fee paying schools, for example Michael Gove. Who is out of touch with the real world did you say?

Michael Gove

janfebmar · 15-06-2019 10:58pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Most of the Tories are out of touch with the real world J. Our leaders have their problems but they're not taking us out of the biggest single market in the world.

It might be the biggest single market in the world, but for many years it has been the slowest growing market in the world, with big financial problems, with an unemployment rate double that of the UK, for example. You complain about the Tory party being led by "toffs", according to you, but yet the likes of Michael Gove went to an ordinary state school, unlike both our Taoiseach and Tanaiste who went to fee paying schools here.

15-06-2019 11:18pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Most of the Tories are out of touch with the real world J. Our leaders have their problems but they're not taking us out of the biggest single market in the world.

Most politicians are out of touch with the real world, be they British, Irish or Eu.

Hamsterchops · 15-06-2019 11:21pm

Anyone know what the bird population is on Rockall ?

Junkyard Tom · 15-06-2019 11:41pm

Aegir wrote: »

Most politicians are out of touch with the real world, be they British, Irish or Eu.

Half of the Tory party were educated in private schools. A lot of the Tory half-wits pushing for a hard Brexit thought Britain 'held all the cards' while many more see Brexit as an opportunity to dismantle the public services/infrastructure built up over generations.

You favour sneering over the fence at us while your own house is being trashed by its inhabitants. Keep up the good work.

janfebmar · 15-06-2019 11:54pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You favour sneering over the fence at us while your own house is being trashed by its inhabitants.

You think Veradkar and Coveney are sneering over the fence at the British because they Veradkar and Coveney went to fee paying schools? Maybe they would be thrashing the house as you call it through our housing crises, our two-tier economy, soaring debt ( one of the highest government borrowings per capita in the world) etc no matter what school they went to? Maybe the other crowd who could be in government could be thrashing the house to a greater extent? Maybe Leo did sneer at the British a bit when he reacted to the comments from the EU about a special place being reserved in hell for those who advocated Brexit, and the 18 million people who voted for it by implication. I do not favour Leo sneering at anyone.

16-06-2019 12:14am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Half of the Tory party were educated in private schools. A lot of the Tory half-wits pushing for a hard Brexit thought Britain 'held all the cards' while many more see Brexit as an opportunity to dismantle the public services/infrastructure built up over generations.

You favour sneering over the fence at us while your own house is being trashed by its inhabitants. Keep up the good work.

You’re the perpetual sneerer Tom. I’m just pointing out that the majority of politicians are out of touch with reality.

Your simple explanation of Brezit is typical to be honest. If it is being done to dismantle the public services, why is the arch socialist and champion of the propel (privately educated) Jeremy Corbyn so in favour of it?

Why is it that the Anti Austerity Alliance opted to take a Brexit position in the referendum? And why have Sinn Fein campaigned against every eu referendum to date?

janfebmar · 16-06-2019 12:32am

Aegir wrote: »

And why have Sinn Fein campaigned against every eu referendum to date?

Indeed most people who have listened to Sinn Féin's anti-EU rhetoric since the seventies knows where they stand on the European project - I seem to remember it being said in the early seventies it was Republicans who did not want Ireland joining the EEC, because the British were joining it!

According to the Independent lately: "Nigel Farage's Brexit Party is using video clips of Mary Lou McDonald as part of its campaign to undermine the European Union.

The party's YouTube page features a montage including a variety of contributions made by the Sinn Féin leader during her time as a member of the European Parliament.

The video dates from 2008 when the Lisbon Treaty was being debated ahead of the first referendum, when it was rejected by Irish voters.

Ms McDonald, who now describes her party as "Euro critical" rather than Eurosceptical, said the treaty was a "carte blanche for further erosion of democracy".

"It gives powerful EU institutions a free hand to further militarise our union."

She also claimed the EU Commission was "actively colluding to suppress information".

Although Sinn Féin is against the UK leaving the union, the party has opposed every EU referendum since Ireland joined the union in 1973.

Ms McDonald was the party's MEP for Dublin from 2004 until 2009."

Now Sinn Fein is pro-EU, seeing as the era of EEC / EU handouts to Ireland has finished and we are expected to be net contributors to the EU project, and as the era of an EU army draws nearer. You could not make it up.

Junkyard Tom · 16-06-2019 12:35am

Aegir wrote: »

You’re the perpetual sneerer Tom. I’m just pointing out that the majority of politicians are out of touch with reality.

That's called whataboutism.

Your simple explanation of Brezit is typical to be honest.

I didn't say it was comprehensive.

If it is being done to dismantle the public services

I'm saying there are Tories who see Brexit as an opportunity to hollow out Britain's public services/infrastructure. I don't think they'll achieve it unless they can engineer a crash-out and then goodness knows what happens.

why is the arch socialist and champion of the propel (privately educated) Jeremy Corbyn so in favour of it?

Corbyn and his crowd have always viewed the EU as a neoliberal pro-capitalist club. Corbyn also sees an opportunity to save Britain from the economic disaster the Tories are concocting by enacting his socialist agenda. He also wants to retain the percentage of their electorate who are pro-Brexit.

Why is it that the Anti Austerity Alliance opted to take a Brexit position in the referendum?

The guys in the north? What have they got to do with Brexit Britain? Regardless, the same reasons as Corbyn - the EU is a neoliberal club to them.

And why have Sinn Fein campaigned against every eu referendum to date?

SF have an element of the anti-neoliberal club in them (at least they did at one stage) combined with an obsession with neutrality and opposing EU integration. SF have moved inexorably to the centre-left. The principle reason SF are now ostensibly pro-EU is because EU membership is quietly stitching Ireland together economically and socially.

janfebmar · 16-06-2019 1:07am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The principle reason SF are now ostensibly pro-EU is because EU membership is quietly stitching Ireland together economically and socially.

Rubbish. Sales from Northern Ireland to Britain were worth nearly four times the value of exports to the Republic of Ireland in 2016. Only 1% of Irish exports go to Northern Ireland. There was a time when some northern students came down to study in our universities etc, now if they leave N. Ireland they go to Britain. And you claim the EU is "stitching Ireland together economically and socially":rolleyes:
Think up another excuse for Sinn Feins u turn, from anti EU to pro EU.

Maybe we buy their secondhand cars because they can afford new ones and we can only afford their (British + Northern Irish) second hand cars because of high taxation of vehicles in this state, maybe that is what you mean by the EU knitting us together again? Good man Tom, dig yourself in to a hole yet again.

ToddyDoody · 16-06-2019 1:11am

My business is registered at Rockall.

Junkyard Tom · 16-06-2019 1:34am

janfebmar wrote: »

...

janfebmar · 16-06-2019 9:08am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That's because you were caught out yet again.:)

blinding · 16-06-2019 9:29am

steddyeddy wrote: »

Most of the Tories are out of touch with the real world J. Our leaders have their problems but they're not taking us out of the biggest single market in the world.

I wonder how many of ours are on the White Powder ; unsupervised of course !

blinding · 16-06-2019 9:33am

janfebmar wrote: »

Indeed most people who have listened to Sinn Féin's anti-EU rhetoric since the seventies knows where they stand on the European project - I seem to remember it being said in the early seventies it was Republicans who did not want Ireland joining the EEC, because the British were joining it!

According to the Independent lately: "Nigel Farage's Brexit Party is using video clips of Mary Lou McDonald as part of its campaign to undermine the European Union.

The party's YouTube page features a montage including a variety of contributions made by the Sinn Féin leader during her time as a member of the European Parliament.

The video dates from 2008 when the Lisbon Treaty was being debated ahead of the first referendum, when it was rejected by Irish voters.

Ms McDonald, who now describes her party as "Euro critical" rather than Eurosceptical, said the treaty was a "carte blanche for further erosion of democracy".

"It gives powerful EU institutions a free hand to further militarise our union."

She also claimed the EU Commission was "actively colluding to suppress information".

Although Sinn Féin is against the UK leaving the union, the party has opposed every EU referendum since Ireland joined the union in 1973.

Ms McDonald was the party's MEP for Dublin from 2004 until 2009."

Now Sinn Fein is pro-EU, seeing as the era of EEC / EU handouts to Ireland has finished and we are expected to be net contributors to the EU project, and as the era of an EU army draws nearer. You could not make it up.

The voters are making their judgment of Sinn Fein . They are all over the place and at odds with their potential voters on so many policies .

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 12:03pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Think up another excuse for Sinn Feins u turn, from anti EU to pro EU.

Far as I know SF have and still are EU Skeptic. They believe we should be a part of it but are skeptical about any further increase in powers.

It's a similar position to a lot of EU members, particularly smaller members.

blinding · 16-06-2019 12:11pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Far as I know SF have and still are EU Skeptic. They believe we should be a part of it but are skeptical about any further increase in powers.

It's a similar position to a lot of EU members, particularly smaller members.

How come they never try this reform from the inside in Westminster;)

But they think they will reform the Eu from the inside;)

They are pulling our leg and it looks from the recent elections that the Voters are not falling for it anymore .:P

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 12:16pm

blinding wrote: »

How come they never try this reform from the inside in Westminster;)

But they think they will reform the Eu from the inside;)

They are pulling our leg and it looks from the recent elections that the Voters are not falling for it anymore .:P

Have a look at what their MEPs have voted for and against the EU. They took a full part in the workings of the EU whether you want to admit that or not.

Regarding the recent electoral performance - there isn't a political party in the world who hasn't experienced what SF did, like those who talked of the demise of FF or indeed FG when they collapsed at the polls - talk of their demise is seriously deluded.

blinding · 16-06-2019 12:30pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have a look at what their MEPs have voted for and against the EU. They took a full part in the workings of the EU whether you want to admit that or not.

Regarding the recent electoral performance - there isn't a political party in the world who hasn't experienced what SF did, like those who talked of the demise of FF or indeed FG when they collapsed at the polls - talk of their demise is seriously deluded.

That kind of a collapse with Photo Shoot Phoney ( Leo , obviously ) at the helm !

Sinn Fein , Happy for Ireland to be Run by the Eu . It doesn’t make sense .

Sinn Fein dancing in the streets after the abortion referendum after not allowing their public representatives a free vote on ...... “ Abortion for folks sake “

Sinn Fein for Mass Immigration when the bad affects ( there definitely is some for working class Irish People ) affects their Voters most of all .

Its no wonder Sinn Fein got hammered at the Polls .

janfebmar · 16-06-2019 12:35pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

there isn't a political party in the world who hasn't experienced what SF did,.

Sinn Fein was unique in thats its military wing murdered elected politicians in N. Ireland, in the Republic and in Britain. And it does not admit it was wrong to do so. Lest we forget. To compare them to normal political parties is stretching it a bit.

blinding · 16-06-2019 12:37pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Sinn Fein was unique in thats its military wing murdered elected politicians in N. Ireland, in the Republic and in Britain. And it does not admit it was wrong to do so. Lest we forget. To compare them to normal political parties is stretching it a bit.

Didn’t Fianna Fail and Fine Gael do the same back in the day .

They were allowed to move on and Fook up Ireland many times while they were at it .

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 12:38pm

blinding wrote: »

That kind of a collapse with Photo Shoot Phoney ( Leo , obviously ) at the helm !

Sinn Fein , Happy for Ireland to be Run by the Eu . It doesn’t make sense .

Sinn Fein dancing in the streets after the abortion referendum after not allowing their public representatives a free vote on ...... “ Abortion for folks sake “

Sinn Fein for Mass Immigration when the bad affects ( there definitely is some for working class Irish People ) affects their Voters most of all .

Its no wonder Sinn Fein got hammered at the Polls .

You don't like SF, we get it.

Which Irish political party admits and is happy with being 'run by the EU'?

Take your time and consider your answer there.

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 12:40pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Sinn Fein was unique in thats its military wing murdered elected politicians in N. Ireland, in the Republic and in Britain. And it does not admit it was wrong to do so. Lest we forget. To compare them to normal political parties is stretching it a bit.

The British shot and killed many more politicians here than SF did. And has been pointed out, so did did all of the principal parties of the state.But you go ahead and be 'selective' again jan.

blinding · 16-06-2019 12:40pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You don't like SF, we get it.

Which Irish political party admits and is happy with being 'run by the EU'?

Take your time and consider your answer there.

Leo in on his belly for the Eu and Michael Martin Martin would do exactly the same .

Sinn Fein decide to Ape FF/Fg . Why would the Irish public want a Third FF/FG ?:eek:

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 12:41pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Sinn Fein was unique in thats its military wing murdered elected politicians in N. Ireland, in the Republic and in Britain. And it does not admit it was wrong to do so. Lest we forget. To compare them to normal political parties is stretching it a bit.

What elected politian did pira murder in the republic??

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 12:43pm

blinding wrote: »

Leo in on his belly for the Eu and Michael Martin Martin would do exactly the same .

What?

FF and FG are members of the EU. Why do loons in Ireland speak of the EU as being some sort of dark, dictatorial entity that 'rules' Ireland. You clearly haven't been paying attention since the Brexit process began.

blinding · 16-06-2019 12:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

FF and FG are members of the EU. Why do loons in Ireland speak of the EU as being some sort of dark, dictatorial entity that 'rules' Ireland. You clearly haven't been paying attention since the Brexit process began.

I’d say you are “ New Sinn Fein “ like Tony Blair was “ New Labour “ ( New Tory in reality )

Eventually Labour Voters saw through it . Blair is dirt in Britain now .

These last Elections in Ireland is Irish People telling Sinn Fein that they ain’t impressed with ‘ New Sinn Fein “ ( New FF/Fg )

Provisional IRA beaten . Sinn Fein now getting beaten ( in the South anyways )

Enough to surrender to the Brits now they have decided to surrender to the Eu .

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 12:57pm

blinding wrote: »

I’d say you are “ New Sinn Fein “ like Tony Blair was “ New Labour “ ( New Tory in reality )

Eventually Labour Voters saw through it . Blair is dirt in Britain now .

These last Elections in Ireland is Irish People telling Sinn Fein that they ain’t impressed with ‘ New Sinn Fein “ ( New FF/Fg )

Provisional IRA beaten . Sinn Fein now getting beaten ( in the South anyways )

Enough to surrender to the Brits now they have decided to surrender to the Eu .

That is one of the funniest things I have read here.

You seem pretty desperate for a win of some sort, I'll give you that.

I do not exclusively support any political party but I know that talk of the demise of a political set-up on the scale of SF is just loony talk.
They, like so many other parties before and after them, will dust themselves down and re-double their effort.
They are past masters at managing and getting out their vote and it looks to me that they failed to that this time.

suicide_circus · 16-06-2019 1:01pm

getting their vote out? i heard that phrase a lot once it was clear SF didnt do well. it implies that their policies are an irrelevancy when it comes to getting seats, its just about bussing "the poor" to the election booth. a weird thing to admit.

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:17pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

getting their vote out? i heard that phrase a lot once it was clear SF didnt do well. it implies that their policies are an irrelevancy when it comes to getting seats, its just about bussing "the poor" to the election booth. a weird thing to admit.

Look at it how you wish but 49.5% of the electorate turned out to vote. That is half of the electorate.

Nobelium · 16-06-2019 1:18pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look at it how you wish but 49.5% of the electorate turned out to vote. That is half of the electorate.

Maybe you could threaten them with knee cappings etc. like the good old days ?

The fact is the Lyra McKee murder woke up a whole new generation to the reality of murdering republican terrorist scum

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 1:20pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look at it how you wish but 49.5% of the electorate turned out to vote. That is half of the electorate.

Its a pure joke anyway...so called republican party taking seats in stormont and the dail

Thats mind-fxuk levels of mixed messages to electorate....we want a utd ireland...but we'll also endorse and participate in institutions which dont??

Who are they trying to fool

blinding · 16-06-2019 1:21pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

getting their vote out? i heard that phrase a lot once it was clear SF didnt do well. it implies that their policies are an irrelevancy when it comes to getting seats, its just about bussing "the poor" to the election booth. a weird thing to admit.

Taking their voters for granted :eek:

Two hammerings in the last 3 elections . Might be a good time to look at their policies :eek:

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:23pm

_blaaz wrote: »

Its a pure joke anyway...so called republican party taking seats in stormont and the dail

Thats mind-fxuk levels of mixed messages to electorate....we want a utd ireland...but we'll also endorse and participate in institutions which dont??

Who are they trying to fool

That 'electorate' must have been very deluded when they endorsed the idea of a 'political' solution to the issues facing us in the GFA vote.

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 1:26pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That 'electorate' must have been very deluded when they endorsed the idea of a 'political' solution to the issues facing us in the GFA vote.

They certainly are deluded...the brits wont ever leave until their shown the way

Have you seen anything about the last referendum and brexit to.suggest the brits are anyway honurable and will call a border poll......SF leadership laughed at pira members 20 years ago when this was pointed out to them....chickens are coming home to roost here

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:36pm

_blaaz wrote: »

They certainly are deluded...the brits wont ever leave until their shown the way

Have you seen anything about the last referendum and brexit to.suggest the brits are anyway honurable and will call a border poll......SF leadership laughed at pira members 20 years ago when this was pointed out to them....chickens are coming home to roost here

The people don't seem to be switching their support to that ^ dissident point of view. That does not seem to me to be happening here.

I do think SF need to review policy, but I always felt that as I don't support a lot of it.
And I think it further delusion to think that the core SF support ever trusted the British to deliver.

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 1:38pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The people don't seem to be switching their support to that ^ dissident point of view. That does not seem to me to be happening here.

I do think SF need to review policy, but I always felt that as I don't support a lot of it.
And I think it further delusion to think that the core SF support ever trusted the British to deliver.

Mate,the brits arent trustworthy,just look.how theyve carried on last 2 years

Do you not think its pure delusion to think they will ever step.up.and deliver a border poll?

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:44pm

_blaaz wrote: »

Mate,the brits arent trustworthy,just look.how theyve carried on last 2 years

Do you not think its pure delusion to think they will ever step.up.and deliver a border poll?

Yes they will, because it is my belief that they ultimately want rid of northern Ireland.

What amazes me about your point is how you ever reached the conclusion that the core SF support ever trusted the British and have NOW come to the conclusion that they are not to be trusted?
That makes no sense.

In fact I would go on to say that many many more than SF's support in Ireland do not trust Britain.

Nobelium · 16-06-2019 1:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In fact I would go on to say that many many more than SF's support in Ireland do not trust Britain.

Of course, but most of the electorate would trust anyone more than SF, the party of terrorists, pedophiles and bullies.

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 1:48pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes they will, because it is my belief that they ultimately want rid of northern Ireland.

What amazes me about your point is how you ever reached the conclusion that the core SF support ever trusted the British and have NOW come to the conclusion that they are not to be trusted?
That makes no sense.

In fact I would go on to say that many many more than SF's support in Ireland do not trust Britain.

Your codding yourself if you think they'll walk away from.the north

Politically they have nothing to gain from it,and alot to lose....they arent trustworthy and wont call a poll....why have they not called one yet?

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:50pm

Nobelium wrote: »

Of course, but most of the electorate would trust anyone more than SF, the party of terrorists, pedophiles and bullies.

You forgot 'horse kidnappers'

Nobelium · 16-06-2019 1:51pm

_blaaz wrote: »

Your codding yourself if you think they'll walk away from.the north

Politically they have nothing to gain from it,and alot to lose....they arent trustworthy and wont call a poll....why have they not called one yet?

Because they know when the realty of paying for that toxic dump that is NI and trying to cleanup the uncleanable, hits the electorate, they will vote no, and loose their chance to get rid of it for another generation.

Nobelium · 16-06-2019 1:52pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You forgot 'horse kidnappers'

we didn't forget murderers of women and kids

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:52pm

_blaaz wrote: »

Your codding yourself if you think they'll walk away from.the north

Politically they have nothing to gain from it,and alot to lose....they arent trustworthy and wont call a poll....why have they not called one yet?

I would say you have answered that question yourself. So far 'Politically they have nothing to gain from it,and alot to lose'

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:53pm

Nobelium wrote: »

we didn't forget murderers of women and kids

'We'...is there a group of people standing around you?

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 1:54pm

Nobelium wrote: »

Because they know when the realty of paying for that toxic dump that is NI and trying to cleanup the uncleanable, hits the electorate, they will vote no, and loose their chance to get rid of it for another generation.

The british electorate have no say?

They wont ever leave.....i hate to say it saoradh have this called right....the gfa wont work

They have brexit excuse to hide behind now,next few years will be a deep recession....they ll.always have an excuse to not hold a border poll.......their never going to call one...they arent a bit honurable in relation to ireland....

it takes breathtaking levels of delusion to think they will ever hold.one....its time for a so called republican party to stop supporting this rubbish and to stop endorseing the dail and stormont

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 1:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would say you have answered that question yourself. So far 'Politically they have nothing to gain from it,and alot to lose'

So infact it is delusion to think they will hold a border poll and its time to withdraw/abstain from stormont permenantly until such time one is called

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2019 1:58pm

_blaaz wrote: »

So infact it is delusion to think they will hold a border poll and its time to withdraw/abstain from stormont permenantly until such time one is called

They will call one when it suits them politically. Personally I don't think the time has come yet, for a variety of reasons.

Nobelium · 16-06-2019 1:58pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'We'...is there a group of people standing around you?

yep, it's called people who don't defend and endorse the murdering of women and kids

_blaaz · 16-06-2019 2:00pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They will call one when it suits them politically. Personally I don't think the time has come yet, for a variety of reasons.

Why not???

Like i said itll never be a good time.

why should irish nationlists have to wait until.it politically suits the brits for.a border poll???

Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

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