NEW 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

Rainbowstar · 01-06-2020 7:20pm

Rdwrer wrote: »

How do you know this?

It has been discussed on here numerous times last campaign. I know I usually just about pass the numerical so it’s clear to me there’s no negative marking.
I get marks for what I pass.
Equally I always score quite high in Verbal & Situational but I find these easy.
That’s what I’m going on & many have agreed with me before on that.
Also, you are told not to spend too long in any question. They would tell you there if there was negative marking or ‘guess’ rather than tell you to move on if you don’t know it.

Beechwoodspark · 01-06-2020 7:22pm

The good lady wife just did the tests earlier - similar to what you are all saying - maths and verbal v hard the situation thing not so bad

Mervyn Skidmore · 01-06-2020 8:44pm

Just a thought, could people set up multiple accounts and do several trial runs of the exam? What is there to stop them? If they use different email accounts and made up pps numbers?

compaq32 · 01-06-2020 8:45pm

I hate that there are no decent situational analysis sample tests. I did well on these last time both online and supervised but it would be great to prepare better.
This is the most important score in terms of your placement on the order of merit (OOM).
Best of luck everyone.
If anyone knows a Mary Poppins please send them my way!!!!![/QUOTE]

Hi what makes you say the situational analysis is the most important for OOM please?

griffid · 01-06-2020 8:58pm

Finished. I need a drink. I can’t believe we might have to do all that again under supervision???

Cheeseplant · 02-06-2020 7:11am

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Same here- emailed them and waiting on reply. Did you get one?
Siutational was complete pain in the bum.. not like previous IMO. Not even geared towards CS!
Maths and verbal fun to look forward to tomorrow.

Apart from.myself and Audley, did anyone else find this?
Should have taken a pic of it!

Zulu Art · 02-06-2020 7:22am

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

Just a thought, could people set up multiple accounts and do several trial runs of the exam? What is there to stop them? If they use different email accounts and made up pps numbers?

One would have to assume that the links in the publicjobs.ie message is specific to prevent this? Or at least trace it. Plus supervised repeat may catch the cheat

griffid · 02-06-2020 7:38am

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Apart from.myself and Audley, did anyone else find this?
Should have taken a pic of it!

Yes 61-67 didn’t seem to match the scenario for me. I just answered based on the wording in the responses instead and emailed them after.

dellbell111 · 02-06-2020 8:11am

I just did the tests, found I didn't have enough time with the numerical and took guesses for the last 4 questions. Oh well . I am treating this as experience as it's my first time applying. Can't see myself passing based on my numerical results . The numerical was easier compared to the practise round in fairness but I don't think I have met the standard. Does anyone know what you need to pass/get through to the next stage based on previous applications ? I take it each year is different but just as a guide

Audreyly · 02-06-2020 8:16am

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Same here- emailed them and waiting on reply. Did you get one?
Siutational was complete pain in the bum.. not like previous IMO. Not even geared towards CS!
Maths and verbal fun to look forward to tomorrow.

Yeah I have gotten a reply but it’s more of a brush off and they are saying the questions are linked to the paragraph, I replied back explaining as simply as possible what the problem was as I thought maybe they don’t understand me and again the reply seemed to be trying to brush me off and indicating that I was the one that didn’t understand the question and they didn’t even look at the paragraph or the questions (I had sent a screen shot of the paragraph and the first two questions), my original messages wasn’t replied to until after 11.30 last night which I am assuming the help desk is not in England. Maybe if more people who have the same problem send them a message they might look into it

Maximus_1 · 02-06-2020 8:20am

Did them this morning (verbal and numerical). Thought verbal was fine but numerical didn't get finished so I might be done for there. They aren't too bad just time is the killer. Situational later.

Audreyly · 02-06-2020 8:24am

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

Just a thought, could people set up multiple accounts and do several trial runs of the exam? What is there to stop them? If they use different email accounts and made up pps numbers?

Seems like an awful lot of work, you would of had to have submitted a new application form each time as the link that is sent to you from pas for the exam is unique to you (this is what it says in the message from pas), I did loads of practice tests in the week prior to doing the exams and still found the maths difficult

Cheeseplant · 02-06-2020 8:43am

Audreyly wrote: »

Yeah I have gotten a reply but it’s more of a brush off and they are saying the questions are linked to the paragraph, I replied back explaining as simply as possible what the problem was as I thought maybe they don’t understand me and again the reply seemed to be trying to brush me off and indicating that I was the one that didn’t understand the question and they didn’t even look at the paragraph or the questions (I had sent a screen shot of the paragraph and the first two questions), my original messages wasn’t replied to until after 11.30 last night which I am assuming the help desk is not in England. Maybe if more people who have the same problem send them a message they might look into it

I was brushed off too.
PM sent.

Tipp star · 02-06-2020 8:44am

Does anyone know whether your numerical score is counted in the overall score? or is it pass/fail?

griffid · 02-06-2020 8:54am

Tipp star wrote: »

Does anyone know whether your numerical score is counted in the overall score? or is it pass/fail?

Last one of these that I did (HEO a few years ago) Maths wasn’t counted for the re-sit but you still had to complete and pass it again and score similarly to your online score. I want to check the booklet to see if it clarifies that for this comp.

griffid · 02-06-2020 8:54am

Cheeseplant wrote: »

I was brushed off too.
PM sent.

I’ve had no response yet.

Forthebuzz · 02-06-2020 11:53am

Done and dusted!

I found the Numerical difficult in the time which is unusual as I normally ace it. Verbal surprisingly OK and one can never really judge the situational.

And now we wait......

lucat · 02-06-2020 12:15pm

Forthebuzz wrote: »

Done and dusted!

I found the Numerical difficult in the time which is unusual as I normally ace it. Verbal surprisingly OK and one can never really judge the situational.

And now we wait......

Same with me. I was expecting a lot of calculus but in fact there was just a lot of multi-step basic addition and multiplication of columns. The kind of thing you'd normally use Excel for. All those steps wasted a huge amount of time.

jones · 02-06-2020 12:45pm

griffid wrote: »

Yes 61-67 didn’t seem to match the scenario for me. I just answered based on the wording in the responses instead and emailed them after.

I did the same

Vologda69 · 02-06-2020 12:50pm

Will do SJT tonite after it cools down. Numeric and verbal first thing in the morning. Trust the weather to be this good in the middle of it.

Rainbowstar · 02-06-2020 2:40pm

compaq32 wrote: »

I hate that there are no decent situational analysis sample tests. I did well on these last time both online and supervised but it would be great to prepare better.
This is the most important score in terms of your placement on the order of merit (OOM).
Best of luck everyone.
If anyone knows a Mary Poppins please send them my way!!!!!

Hi what makes you say the situational analysis is the most important for OOM please?[/QUOTE]

Oh it’s widely known that it is the most important. In the supervised tests - you only need to pass verbal & numerical & SA with an etray exercise place you.

Chocolate Teapot · 02-06-2020 3:13pm

Rainbowstar wrote: »

Oh it’s widely known that it is the most important. In the supervised tests - you only need to pass verbal & numerical & SA with an etray exercise place you

Are you sure about this Rainbowstar? Generally you just have to pass numerical and your OOM is based on a combination of your verbal and situational scores. At least that’s how it’s been in any competition I’ve ever done

Rdwrer · 02-06-2020 3:19pm

Rainbowstar wrote: »

Oh it’s widely known that it is the most important. In the supervised tests - you only need to pass verbal & numerical & SA with an etray exercise place you.

Stop providing inaccurate information. That's the second time in a few pages you've done it.

Firstly, you don't "only need to pass verbal & numerical" in a supervised test. You need to get within a certain percentage of what you got the first time. That is a fact.

Secondly, Situational Judgement is not "the most important". Your order of merit will nearly always (depending on the competition) factor in your score from verbal and situational, so verbal is just as important as situational.

Thirdly, in response to your post from a few pages back, (post 402), "it’s clear to me there’s no negative marking". There is almost certainly negative marking. If you read the booklet that came with this competition, you would see that it says "Due to the advances of online testing, the scoring of assessments has become more complex. It is suggested that you do the tests as quickly and accurately as you can."

Mervyn Skidmore · 02-06-2020 3:20pm

Just on the whole competition thing, you'd think they would change up the recruitment process every now and then. A lot of large multinationals have dropped this kind of testing now at this stage. I fail to see the relevance of some of it. The verbal reasoning/situational questions have some merit but the numerical is a bit daft really and nothing like a real world example. Costing and budgeting is essential but your CV should cover that, not a blast through 18 questions.

Irishder · 02-06-2020 3:24pm

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

Just on the whole competition thing, you'd think they would change up the recruitment process every now and then. A lot of large multinationals have dropped this kind of testing now at this stage. I fail to see the relevance of some of it. The verbal reasoning/situational questions have some merit but the numerical is a bit daft really and nothing like a real world example. Costing and budgeting is essential but your CV should cover that, not a blast through 18 questions.

its crazy, i have 2 bachelors and a masters yet my "intelligence" is measured from a test that takes 30 minutes.

Mervyn Skidmore · 02-06-2020 3:42pm

Irishder wrote: »

its crazy, i have 2 bachelors and a masters yet my "intelligence" is measured from a test that takes 30 minutes.

Especially for a senior management position like this. Bizarre way of recruitment. I know there are huge numbers applying but you'd wonder if some of the best people are slipping through the cracks.

Irishder · 02-06-2020 3:49pm

i wouldn't say i passed the tests as i was rushing a bit doing them. Not saying i am made for the job but i think at this level a CV and phone call should be the screening method. Why over complicate things?

lucat · 02-06-2020 3:57pm

Irishder wrote: »

i wouldn't say i passed the tests as i was rushing a bit doing them. Not saying i am made for the job but i think at this level a CV and phone call should be the screening method. Why over complicate things?

Because they can't call hundreds or thousands of people. These tests are basically just a filtering method.

Mervyn Skidmore · 02-06-2020 4:01pm

lucat wrote: »

Because they can't call hundreds or thousands of people. These tests are basically just a filtering method.

I completely understand that, but are they filtering the right people? There might be other ways of doing this. A fairly high percentage of people that make it through to the interview, do not pass the interview therefore it would seem like a fairly ineffective method of filtering. I know some large volume competitions use a keyword search on CVs. This could be suitable.

Crimson_Ghost · 02-06-2020 4:12pm

I'm so disappointed. I felt I did well on situational and verbal but I botched the numerical despite a lot of numerical reasoning practice. I'm kicking myself!

Let myself get bogged down on one question, lost track of time and don't think I answered enough correctly to pass. I only got as far as Q. 9 before it timed out.

Rainbowstar · 02-06-2020 4:22pm

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

Are you sure about this Rainbowstar? Generally you just have to pass numerical and your OOM is based on a combination of your verbal and situational scores. At least that’s how it’s been in any competition I’ve ever done

Perhaps the verbal is taken into the order of merit in the supervised but I am almost sure it's the SA and the E-tray in the supervised.
It was the supervised test I was referring to here.
I know the verbal and SA are counted together in this initial round.

Rainbowstar · 02-06-2020 4:34pm

Rdwrer wrote: »

Stop providing inaccurate information. That's the second time in a few pages you've done it.

Firstly, you don't "only need to pass verbal & numerical" in a supervised test. You need to get within a certain percentage of what you got the first time. That is a fact.

Secondly, Situational Judgement is not "the most important". Your order of merit will nearly always (depending on the competition) factor in your score from verbal and situational, so verbal is just as important as situational.

Thirdly, in response to your post from a few pages back, (post 402), "it’s clear to me there’s no negative marking". There is almost certainly negative marking. If you read the booklet that came with this competition, you would see that it says "Due to the advances of online testing, the scoring of assessments has become more complex. It is suggested that you do the tests as quickly and accurately as you can."

OK straight up - I am not on here for aggressive tones like yours. We all share our thoughts and ideas within our own experience and that offered by PAS.

1. You do "ONLY NEED TO PASS" them to get through the supervised. As in they are not taken in to consideration for you order of merit score. The pass score will progress you at this stage as far as I was aware but you still do your best with them.
Of course if they are widely differing from your unsupervised scores - they may question it - but they rarely are if you're doing them yourself honestly first time round.

2. SA and ETRAY determine your OOM on the supervised tests as far as I remember - this was what others and I felt last year and is my experience of it. I never said this was 100% - my opinion based on my + other's experiences. Have you done supervised testing in the AP comp before??

3. Most of us feel that there is no negative marking. Again, my opinion on my experiences and based on conversations with AP, PO and HEO friends who've done these tests often.

Please refrain from commenting on my posts if you can't do so in a civil manor.
Everyone on here this year and last year has been super helpful. There is no place here for this tone. I would never provide inaccurate information - it is opinion and personal experience like everyone else on here.
I am not the PAS - go to them if you want 100% accurate answers.

And breathe.....

Rainbowstar · 02-06-2020 4:40pm

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

Are you sure about this Rainbowstar? Generally you just have to pass numerical and your OOM is based on a combination of your verbal and situational scores. At least that’s how it’s been in any competition I’ve ever done

I know verbal is for sure in this initial test - but I think the SA and the Etray in the supervised (which was so hard!!) are the main two at that stage. Again, this is based in what me and others felt from our scoring but not 100.

The Student · 02-06-2020 4:46pm

Irishder wrote: »

its crazy, i have 2 bachelors and a masters yet my "intelligence" is measured from a test that takes 30 minutes.

Agree with you. I have a degree, a masters and am a qualified accountant.

jones · 02-06-2020 5:11pm

You guys sound a bit over qualified to me haha.

I do agree about the layout of these tests though - i know there is no perfect solution but the numberical in particular just seems very over the top. As someone mentioned above anyone going for this level trying to work out complex tables with a calculator is doing it wrong as far as i'm concerned :-)

Dublinboard · 02-06-2020 5:11pm

Rainbowstar wrote: »

I know verbal is for sure in this initial test - but I think the SA and the Etray in the supervised (which was so hard!!) are the main two at that stage. Again, this is based in what me and others felt from our scoring but not 100.

What is an e tray? I thought we just had to compete numerical and verbal reasoning and a situational judgement questionnaire?

sheep2016 · 02-06-2020 5:24pm

Can anyone confirm how many verbal questions must be completed within the 19 minutes? I believe someone said on an earlier post that 3 questions are asked on each paragraph?

Dublinboard · 02-06-2020 5:32pm

sheep2016 wrote: »

Can anyone confirm how many verbal questions must be completed within the 19 minutes? I believe someone said on an earlier post that 3 questions are asked on each paragraph?

I think there were 5 paragraphs

Rainbowstar · 02-06-2020 5:49pm

Dublinboard wrote: »

What is an e tray? I thought we just had to compete numerical and verbal reasoning and a situational judgement questionnaire?

Oh I wish that was all Dublin Board!!
If you progress through this and then short-listing (that was the next stage last year - based on your application)
Then you sit the supervised tests AGAIN, PLUS an e-tray exercise.
It's basically a work scenario where you are asked to write a brief/ memo based on info given. You then get interrupted with a demand from your boss to do another task e.g. an email to the Minister.
In the middle of all this you get lots of lots of questions with work case scenarios you have to answer - multiple choice.
There is prep work etc sent before-hand so you'll get it if you progress that far.

I found it extremely challenging and it overwhelmed me on top of the other 3 tests. I was 8 months pregnant which didn't help!!

Like they now do these initial tests for PO online with a webcam active to supervise you. Why not do this for AP and then only bring us in for the e-tray.
I don't understand it - it's very demanding on that day - in my experience.

Nicole2020 · 02-06-2020 7:20pm

Just completed... thought the numerical was really tough! I ended up guessing a lot especially towards the end. I thought it was much tougher than the practice exams I had done but definitely agree the practice within the test was confusing, glad I had read here not to panic. Verbal was ok, I started to run out of time so not confident on the last 2 or 3 answers. Situational was fairly standard, it's always hard to know with that. Not holding out much hope though, really doubt I passed the numerical.

Rainbowstar · 02-06-2020 7:26pm

Nicole2020 wrote: »

Just completed... thought the numerical was really tough! I ended up guessing a lot especially towards the end. I thought it was much tougher than the practice exams I had done but definitely agree the practice within the test was confusing, glad I had read here not to panic. Verbal was ok, I started to run out of time so not confident on the last 2 or 3 answers. Situational was fairly standard, it's always hard to know with that. Not holding out much hope though, really doubt I passed the numerical.

Same as that - I found numerical much harder than last year. Doubt I passed. Best of luck with it!

Crimson_Ghost · 02-06-2020 7:50pm

Rainbowstar wrote: »

Same as that - I found numerical much harder than last year. Doubt I passed. Best of luck with it!

I had a look through the 2018 thread. Of the six people who fretted the most about the numerical and were sure they failed, four of them made it through Stage 1 and at least two are APs now. It ain't over yet. Fingers crossed.

quad_red · 02-06-2020 8:07pm

To anyone who hasn't done the tests yet - be careful. The website is getting really wobbly.

I'd clicked the link and registered my email and login on Sunday. Practiced after getting home from work today and was ready to do them but kept getting browser and login errors.

Just restarted for the third time and it's letting me back in but only through a different browser (wouldn't log in with chrome or firefox).

dee75 · 02-06-2020 8:09pm

Just some things that will give you an idea of how the 2016 competition worked, with no guarantee it will be the same this time around! This will be long, so I'll post how the 2018 competition worked separately.

Stage 1 Home Aptitude Tests
Tests - closing date was around 19 December 2016
Results - on 12 January 2017. Gave order of merit based on verbal and situational judgment scores. You just had to pass numerical. Qualifying score on all 3 was 40 points.
Top 1,047 people from Stage 1 were invited to Stage 2 in the first batch.

Stage 2 Supervised Tests
Invitation - issued on 13 January 2017
Tests - held over several weeks in late Jan/early Feb 2017
Results - on 22 February 2017. Gave order of merit. Top 205 people shortlisted for Stage 3.
Results breakdown - on 1 March 2017. Order of merit was determined by Job Simulation and Etray results only. Average score in both was 50 points.
Verbal - qualifying score 42 points
Numerical - qualifying score 40 points
Job Simulation - qualifying score 41 points
Etray Exercise - qualifying score 40 points

Stage 3 Interview
Invitation - 23 February 2017
Interviews - held over several weeks in early/mid March 2017
Results - 23 March 2017. Gave order of merit nationally (not regionally). Gave breakdown of scores for each competency. Separate message later giving you order of merit for your two regions.

dee75 · 02-06-2020 8:24pm

And here's a separate post on how the 2018 competition worked (for me). Again, this is no guarantee as to how it will operate this time around. You will see changes between the 2016 and 2018 competitions.

Stage 1 Home Aptitude Tests
Tests - held between 27 September and 2 October 2018
Results - on 25 October 2018. Gave order of merit based on verbal and situational judgment scores. You just had to pass numerical. Qualifying score on all 3 was 40 points.

Stage 2 Shortlisting
This was different from 2016 competition.
Anyone who scored more than 106 points in Stage 1 (i.e. combined verbal and situational judgment score exceeding 106 points) then had their application form reviewed by a panel who decided if it met the standard or not. I don't know how many were knocked out here, but I'm aware that at least a few appealed the decision to PAS.

Stage 3 Supervised Tests
Tests - I think tests were spread out over a long period with several batches. Mine was in early March 2019
Results - on 20 March 2019. Order of merit was determined by Job Simulation and Etray results only.
Verbal - qualifying score 38 points
Numerical - qualifying score 38 points
Job Simulation - qualifying score 41 points
Etray Exercise - qualifying score 40 points

Stage 4 Interview
Interviews - held over several weeks in April 2019 (again may have been different for others - depends what batch you were in).
Results - 23 April 2019. Gave order of merit for your First Chosen Region, and separate message later giving you OOM for your Second Chosen Region. Gave breakdown of scores for each competency. Qualifying score was 41 points per competency, with a maximum of 100 points for each.

dee75 · 02-06-2020 8:26pm

You'll see from my earlier posts that the pace of the 2016 competition was much faster all around than the 2018 one.

And a large number of people were placed out of that competition. Most jobs in Dublin (as is usual in these situations) but definitely a good few in the regions also.

dee75 · 02-06-2020 8:31pm

Crimson_Ghost wrote: »

Let myself get bogged down on one question, lost track of time and don't think I answered enough correctly to pass. I only got as far as Q. 9 before it timed out.

Don't worry too much yet, if they go by the same qualifying score as previous competitions, you only need to get 40 points out of a maximum of 80. Which puts it at exactly 9 questions right.

And that's only if they use the same scoring as before. A lot will depend on how candidates perform overall as a group.

Crimson_Ghost · 02-06-2020 8:36pm

dee75 wrote: »

Don't worry too much yet, if they go by the same qualifying score as previous competitions, you only need to get 40 points out of a maximum of 80. Which puts it at exactly 9 questions right.

And that's only if they use the same scoring as before. A lot will depend on how candidates perform overall as a group.

Thanks. I've consoled myself somewhat by looking at the 2018 thread and seeing who had practically lost hope at this stage because of numerical but made it through. ðŸ™‚

griffid · 02-06-2020 8:57pm

The Student wrote: »

Agree with you. I have a degree, a masters and am a qualified accountant.

But how did you find the maths ðŸ€£ðŸ€£

The Student · 02-06-2020 9:01pm

griffid wrote: »

But how did you find the maths ðŸ€£ðŸ€£

Difficult as I use excel for everything and have workbook templates I use all the time. Suppose time will tell.

NEW 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

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