The glorious 12th

DrPhilG · 12-07-2019 3:46pm

gooch2k9 wrote: »

It's what they're taught, at least in Unionist areas. Northern Ireland is Ulster to them.

I just quizzed my other half (Derry girl) on this.

Sure enough even though she was a "Haffa" (half a jaffa), she went to a mixed primary school and a Protestant secondary school and they were taught that Ulster was the 6 counties.

I just find it nuts that in adulthood, and talking about educated men involved in politics at the highest level, nobody pointed this out to them.

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Carson ruled against those three.

Carson had a pussy cat, it sat upon the fender. And when you pulled the pussy's tail it shouted NO SURRENDER.

My wife's uncle was a devout Unionist and used to teach the kids that when they were wee, just to annoy their Catholic da. Lol

McLoughlin · 12-07-2019 3:47pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

Its Flegs not Flags as for Israel flag this might help

NIMAN · 12-07-2019 3:47pm

This YouTube clip will explain everything you need to know about flegs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o8JqKxrloQQ

ciarang85 · 12-07-2019 3:48pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

KKKulture.... they love a good fleg up there

Poor_old_gill · 12-07-2019 4:01pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can explain 2.

The UJ= obvious
The Israeli flag = because themuns see an affinity with Palestinians.

The Nazi one = ****ed if I know.

Surely they notice the irony of the Nazi & Israel flags side by side?

Poor_old_gill · 12-07-2019 4:03pm

NIMAN wrote: »

This YouTube clip will explain everything you need to know about flegs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o8JqKxrloQQ

It doesnt- I dont get the Nazi one and thats the most confusing.

Wasn't a big part of the building of an Ulster identity the fighting of the German's in 2 World Wars?

I just cant understand the Nazi one

Gimme A Pound · 12-07-2019 4:06pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

It doesnt- I dont get the Nazi one and thats the most confusing.

Wasn't a big part of the building of an Ulster identity the fighting of the German's in 2 World Wars?

I just cant understand the Nazi one

Cognitive dissonance. They're anti immigration - and apparently the only way this can be expressed is with a swastika... even if alongside an Israel flag.

Also, idiocy.

Fr D Maugire · 12-07-2019 4:14pm

Went to an Ulster rugby game few years ago. Two lads behind us chatting away, general chit chat, one was clearly home from America on holidays so was little out of touch with the Ulster team. Tommy Bowe came up in the coversation, and the US based guy asked where Bowe was from. The other answered Monaghan. "Ah not a real Ulster man then" was the response. I just laughed that even though this guy was living overseas, the old tribalisms were still there.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I just quizzed my other half (Derry girl) on this.

Sure enough even though she was a "Haffa" (half a jaffa), she went to a mixed primary school and a Protestant secondary school and they were taught that Ulster was the 6 counties.

I just find it nuts that in adulthood, and talking about educated men involved in politics at the highest level, nobody pointed this out to them.

Carson had a pussy cat, it sat upon the fender. And when you pulled the pussy's tail it shouted NO SURRENDER.

My wife's uncle was a devout Unionist and used to teach the kids that when they were wee, just to annoy their Catholic da. Lol

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 4:18pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Surely they notice the irony of the Nazi & Israel flags side by side?

I'll pass on that. Ask me an easy one!

Scarlet42 · 12-07-2019 4:27pm

Here is a good one for you .. Marching to commemorate the Battle of The Somme a few years ago

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/nazi-swastika-tattooed-man-takes-part-in-belfast-somme-commemoration-parade-34816123.html

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 4:31pm

Scarlet42 wrote: »

Here is a good one for you .. Marching to commemorate the Battle of The Some a few years ago

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/nazi-swastika-tattooed-man-takes-part-in-belfast-somme-commemoration-parade-34816123.html

Never seen that. Classic.

citytillidie · 12-07-2019 4:56pm

Nazi flag is just a footnote to their KKK links

Junkyard Tom · 12-07-2019 5:03pm

There's a little more to Unionist flying of the flag of Israel. At its heart Unionist sympathies are not with Jews, or even Israel, but with ultra-nationalist Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

Unionists wish that the British would have 'West Banked' rebel Belfast and 'Gazaed' South Armagh and the Bogside of Derry. Remember it wasn't so long ago that Unionist politicians were calling for airstrikes on Dundalk.

Make no mistake about it there are elements within Unionism who'd like nothing more than a big militarised wall built along the length of the border with the pesky natives on 'their' side knowing their subordinated place.

It's a torture fantasy.

endacl · 12-07-2019 5:22pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Never seen that. Classic.

Ah, the cognitive dissonance of the scumbag class.

Reminds me of the Croke Park protester...

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 5:35pm

endacl wrote: »

Ah, the cognitive dissonance of the scumbag class. Reminds me of the Croke Park protester...

Not that there aren't fools on both sides.

But you really should update yourself on that pic. It is a fairly obvious photoshop.
You can see how it was done.

Edgware · 12-07-2019 5:49pm

endacl wrote: »

Ah, the cognitive dissonance of the scumbag class. Reminds me of the Croke Park protester...

Classic gob****e

evolving_doors · 12-07-2019 5:56pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

I see where there is a gigantic pile of pallets stacked up in an estate in Portadown which the fire service regard as a 'serious health and safety risk'. Apparently 30+ firms have been approached to remove/dismantle it but nobody will touch it. One things for certain if that was some years ago in a nationalist area the British army would be steaming in like a flash to dismantle it and anything else that was in its way.

I thought this thread was about a batch of Conor MacGregor's booze that no-one wanted.

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 6:01pm

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s a supremacist parade that would be banned if it targeted any other ethnic group.

Examples please...

JupiterKid · 12-07-2019 6:12pm

As someone from a Northern family (Belfast born) who moved to Dublin in 1976 (when I was 1 year old) to escape the darkest days of the Troubles and of a Catholic background but with Protestant second cousins on my father's side and good friends from both sides of the "divide" - the whole shenanigans around the July marching season is pathetic and sad.

Basically the North is best avoided for the entire month of July - the height of the tourist season in Ireland. Many of my Nordie mates just take holidays abroad with their families at this time of year because of all the tension and hassle that they would rather their kids not be exposed to directly.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs and shows that Northern Ireland is easily the most socially regressive place in Western Europe and is decades away from being ready to reunify with the Republic. Anywho, it seems many if not most people in the Republic do not want the North will all its attendant problems and given the crap up there at the moment, that is very understandable.

But I will say that Belfast is a great wee city to visit and is much friendlier than Dublin. It has come on in leaps and bounds since the Good Friday Agreement and is a great place to visit and shop.

...but ideally not in the month of July!

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 6:22pm

Just home from a great parade. Big crowd, great weather (for NI anyway). Any genuine questions not from the usual republican circle jerk posters welcome. And they know who they are as do I.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 6:28pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Just home from a great parade. Big crowd, great weather (for NI anyway). Any genuine questions not from the usual republican circle jerk posters welcome. And they know who they are as do I.

Just if you could answer or give a guess to why a Swastika is flown along side the Union flag? We get the Israel one, could you shed light or offer a theory on the Nazi one?

retalivity · 12-07-2019 6:36pm

Do they still have that silly mascot to make it a 'fun filled family day'? Super orange tom or whatevrr he is called?

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 6:36pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

As someone from a Northern family (Belfast born) who moved to Dublin in 1976 (when I was 1 year old) to escape the darkest days of the Troubles and of a Catholic background but with Protestant second cousins on my father's side and good friends from both sides of the "divide" - the whole shenanigans around the July marching season is pathetic and sad!

So you have Protestant 2nd cousins on your fathers side. So integrated then. Sounds very condescending to me.

You are correct in that Belfast is a far better city than Dublin to go out in. I’m not talking about the Shankill rd or Falls rd as that would be like me going to Dublin and heading to Ballymum.

Avoiding Belfast for the whole month of July is completely ridiculous. Avoid the 12th day if you are bothered but the city centre is now full of hipster bars and great craic in general. Probably more Irish than Dublin nowadays funny enough.

Odhinn · 12-07-2019 6:38pm

retalivity wrote: »

Do they still have that silly mascot to make it a 'fun filled family day'? Super orange tom or whatevrr he is called?

I think they had to get rid of it as it was copied from somebody elses work.

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 6:43pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Just if you could answer or give a guess to why a Swastika is flown along side the Union flag? We get the Israel one, could you shed light or offer a theory on the Nazi one?

I saw that picture earlier. Was that from a few years ago? I seem to remember something like that a few years back and it was quickly removed. You have to remember that any dick can put a flag on a lamppost. Whoever did that was obviously a scumbag.

Nothing more, nor nothing less. The parade I attended today lowered their banners as they passed the war cenotaph in respect. Nazi scumbag flags are certainly not something I’ve come across personally in NI and should be burned imo. That’s the only light on that one as I’m not sure where that was from.

retalivity · 12-07-2019 6:47pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Nothing more, nor nothing less. The parade I attended today lowered their banners as they passed the war cenotaph in respect. Nazi scumbag flags are certainly not something I’ve come across personally in NI and should be burned imo. That’s the only light on that one as I’m not sure where that was from.

Why do you need to burn flags can you not just, like, not have them? Or remove them?

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 6:51pm

retalivity wrote: »

Why do you need to burn flags can you not just, like, not have them? Or remove them?

Figure of speech. Hard to burn flags now anyway. Pesky flame retardant covering. No problem trying with a nazi flag though.

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 6:59pm

retalivity wrote: »

Why do you need to burn flags can you not just, like, not have them? Or remove them?

Maybe misread your post. If you mean burning the Irish flag then I don’t agree either. The flags they burn are stolen from republican areas flying them or bought simply to burn. Stupid but not the end of the world.

I used to associate the Irish flag with the Ira as that is the only time I saw it on ira coffins. Now I know different in that it is my neighbours flag. I have one myself in the house and not to burn before any smart arse comes I worth that.

DrPhilG · 12-07-2019 6:59pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Just home from a great parade. Big crowd, great weather (for NI anyway). Any genuine questions not from the usual republican circle jerk posters welcome. And they know who they are as do I.

2 questions

1 - your thoughts on what I mentioned earlier. Why the Unionist obsession with Ulster despite the fact that 3 of 9 counties are in the Republic. Yes I know its generally taught in school (even that fact is shocking) but how/why do so many of the general public still not realise that they're being a bit thick?

2 - do you agree that the attitude by police and politicians in allowing or not condemning the bonfires stacked with Irish flags and KAT slogans is a disgrace?

Genuine questions by the way, I'm certainly not one of the of the circle jerkers you referred to!

Hoboo · 12-07-2019 7:04pm

What's the ivory coast got to do with anything?

Odhinn · 12-07-2019 7:08pm

Hoboo wrote: »

What's the ivory coast got to do with anything?

It vaguely resembles the irish flag, so they burn it by mistake a lot.

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 7:18pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

They used to fly the South African flag also. Basically where there is apartheid and ethnic supremicism, they'll support it

votecounts · 12-07-2019 7:20pm

To those of the Unionist persuasion, just 2 simple questions.

Do you think it is right to march in areas where you are simply not wanted?

Do you agree with burning our national flag on your bonfires?

cgcsb · 12-07-2019 7:22pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Just home from a great parade. Big crowd, great weather (for NI anyway). Any genuine questions not from the usual republican circle jerk posters welcome. And they know who they are as do I.

Did you genuinely think that parade was fun? Or do you just feel culturally obligated to say that.

JupiterKid · 12-07-2019 7:42pm

timthumbni wrote: »

So you have Protestant 2nd cousins on your fathers side. So integrated then. Sounds very condescending to me.

You are correct in that Belfast is a far better city than Dublin to go out in. I’m not talking about the Shankill rd or Falls rd as that would be like me going to Dublin and heading to Ballymum.

Avoiding Belfast for the whole month of July is completely ridiculous. Avoid the 12th day if you are bothered but the city centre is now full of hipster bars and great craic in general. Probably more Irish than Dublin nowadays funny enough.

So being critical of the tribalism, triumphalism, bigotry and thuggery associated with the July marching season is "condescending" it it? :rolleyes:

Get a grip...

You might find this very hard to believe in your small little inward-looking world, but Northern friends of mine from a Protestant background actually distance themselves from the Orange Order, the marches and bonfires and prefer to get out of the North to take a break from the rather tense atmosphere at this time of year.

My Dutch relative (through my sister's marriage) lives and works in Ballymena - is married to a Ballymena man and has two small children - and has been told several times by locals to "go home" and "you're not welcome here."

Delightful stuff indeed.

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 7:58pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

2 questions

1 - your thoughts on what I mentioned earlier. Why the Unionist obsession with Ulster despite the fact that 3 of 9 counties are in the Republic. Yes I know its generally taught in school (even that fact is shocking) but how/why do so many of the general public still not realise that they're being a bit thick?

2 - do you agree that the attitude by police and politicians in allowing or not condemning the bonfires stacked with Irish flags and KAT slogans is a disgrace?

Genuine questions by the way, I'm certainly not one of the of the circle jerkers you referred to!

1- re Ulster technically obviously a misnomer nowadays. Ulster says NO, Ulster flag, uvf, uff etc etc. Hence why I try to refer to the NI red hand flag now instead of an Ulster flag. Just a name really so wouldn’t be that big an issue though to me anyway.

2- The psni are is a difficult spot here. It is not their place to take down flags on posts unless public safety is at risk. I think most sensible people have condemned the burning of flags on bonfires. KAT slogans are a disgrace but walk around the Lagan area and loads of KAH (kill all huns) graffiti about. (Maybe Tyrone gaa players have been around) Thats Belfast for you. Bigger cities tend to have a bigger collection of twats about imo.

munsterlegend · 12-07-2019 8:03pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

So being critical of the tribalism, triumphalism, bigotry and thuggery associated with the July marching season is "condescending" it it? :rolleyes:

Get a grip...

You might find this very hard to believe in your small little inward-looking world, but Northern friends of mine from a Protestant background actually distance themselves from the Orange Order, the marches and bonfires and prefer to get out of the North to take a break from the rather tense atmosphere at this time of year.

My Dutch relative (through my sister's marriage) lives and works in Ballymena - is married to a Ballymena man and has two small children - and has been told several times by locals to "go home" and "you're not welcome here."

Delightful stuff indeed.

If you in any way question Protestants and their culture you are a die hard republican. Plenty people question it and are even embarrassed by it within their community. The orange order who basically are the reason for this public holiday have no place in 21st century uk or Ireland. It’s as simple as that.

munsterlegend · 12-07-2019 8:05pm

timthumbni wrote: »

1- re Ulster technically obviously a misnomer nowadays. Ulster says NO, Ulster flag, uvf, uff etc etc. Hence why I try to refer to the NI red hand flag now instead of an Ulster flag. Just a name really so wouldn’t be that big an issue though to me anyway.

2- The psni are is a difficult spot here. It is not their place to take down flags on posts unless public safety is at risk. I think most sensible people have condemned the burning of flags on bonfires. KAT slogans are a disgrace but walk around the Lagan area and loads of KAH (kill all huns) graffiti about. (Maybe Tyrone gaa players have been around) Thats Belfast for you. Bigger cities tend to have a bigger collection of twats about imo.

I was in Belfast a few times and very little flags in republican areas. However loyalist areas were full of them. It’s actually worse now with these parachute flags everywhere which really only serve to try and incite further.

Fan of Netflix · 12-07-2019 8:11pm

munsterlegend wrote: »

I was in Belfast a few times and very little flags in republican areas. However loyalist areas were full of them. It’s actually worse now with these parachute flags everywhere which really only serve to try and incite further.

Yeah the Soldier F flags are really sick, I seen they put some up in Enniskillen. Usually it's not the worst town for that sort of loyalist bigotry.

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 8:14pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

So being critical of the tribalism, triumphalism, bigotry and thuggery associated with the July marching season is "condescending" it it? :rolleyes:

Get a grip...

You might find this very hard to believe in your small little inward-looking world, but Northern friends of mine from a Protestant background actually distance themselves from the Orange Order, the marches and bonfires and prefer to get out of the North to take a break from the rather tense atmosphere at this time of year.

My Dutch relative (through my sister's marriage) lives and works in Ballymena - is married to a Ballymena man and has two small children - and has been told several times by locals to "go home" and "you're.

No, the condescending bit was you pointing out you had a 2nd cousin twice removed who was Protestant like you were David Attenborough in amongst the lions in Africa.

Of course many from a unionist background don’t go to bonfires, the parades or anything else. I already have said this the past. I was. Close to not going myself but kids wanted to go. We get 2 public holidays and a lot of tradesmen and factory’s take their week off now. Of course that’s why a lot take their week in Benidorm or Santa ponsa.

It’s rarely because of the parades themselves. Jaysus, I went to the parade and wasn’t even held up in the town itself either going or coming.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 8:14pm

Brian Kennaway has been a member of the OO for 40 year and a Senior member of the Grand Lodge of Ireland for 25, in his book The Orange Order -A Tradition Betrayed he spills the beans as it were.

What is his case against the powers-that-be in the Orange Order? Put simply, he believes that they have lost the plot. They are weakened by a sectarianism that few of them even acknowledge, are politically myopic to the point of stupidity, and more than a little ambivalent about matters such as the Belfast Agreement, the peace process and, it would seem, Loyalist violence. They are, in fact, a hidebound and unsophisticated bunch without vision or plan.
Kennaway holds that as a result of its inept leadership the Order has become discredited and cut off from much of its normal support. It has not, however, split—that is something that he says it does not do—but it has severely haemorrhaged. Its membership stands at an all-time low (about 30,000); many of its most able are either disenchanted or have drifted away. There are few graduates in its ranks; to all intents and purposes it is a proletarian outfit, heavy with riff-raff, plus an argumentative, obscurantist, rural wing.
It has no power, no influence, no prestige, and is spurned by the Protestant middle classes, who are embarrassed by its vapourings and antics. People in the know largely see it as part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
The tenor of Kennaway’s remarks is that if the present leadership continues the Order will self-destruct or fade away.

Good luck to the PR people for the OO on here in defending that!

https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Order-Tradition-Betrayed/dp/0413775356

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 8:17pm

munsterlegend wrote: »

I was in Belfast a few times and very little flags in republican areas. However loyalist areas were full of them. It’s actually worse now with these parachute flags everywhere which really only serve to try and incite further.

And what was the question here exactly?

Rubberchikken · 12-07-2019 8:17pm

i think its good for every little organisation to have their special day.

NIMAN · 12-07-2019 8:18pm

cgcsb wrote: »

They've basically re-defined the province in their own minds into the area that they believe they can control. This mindset is notional really, and doesn't stand up to any logic, but is strangely given official status e.g. the 'Ulster Unionist Part', a strange concept given that if Donegal were in NI, unionism would have failed to secure a stormont majority many years ago and NI would be gone by now.

There are other official examples; the 'RUC' (now renamed) and BBC radio Ulster (I think that's still around despite the logic fail).

Or "Stand Up for the Ulster men" sung at Windsor Park during NI games.

munsterlegend · 12-07-2019 8:23pm

timthumbni wrote: »

And what was the question here exactly?

It was an observation. Went to a lovely tourist town called Carrickfergus and a shame to see it so littered with flags and vile messages.

timthumbni · 12-07-2019 8:27pm

munsterlegend wrote: »

It was an observation. Went to a lovely tourist town called Carrickfergus and a shame to see it so littered with flags and vile messages.

That’s where King Billy came to land. What were the messages?

munsterlegend · 12-07-2019 8:31pm

timthumbni wrote: »

That’s where King Billy came to land. What were the messages?

Parachute regiment flags and soldier ‘f’. To me they are vile as taking pleasure from people who were murdered. And yes I know loyalist and republican areas do the same but Carrickfergus should be looking for people to visit without such flags.

I hadn’t realized what a Unionist town it actually was until after and the concerted uvf efforts to get Catholics out.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2019 8:32pm

timthumbni wrote: »

That’s where King Billy came to land. What were the messages?

Why did the OO move so far away from what Billy was fighting for? He fought for civil and religious freedom, yet the OO is an exclusively Protestant organisation that sought to keep NI exclusively a Protestant state for Protestant people and managed to do that for decades to the detriment of those of a different faith. Genuine question.

NIMAN · 12-07-2019 8:36pm

timthumbni wrote: »

2- The psni are is a difficult spot here. It is not their place to take down flags on posts unless public safety is at risk. I think most sensible people have condemned the burning of flags on bonfires. KAT slogans are a disgrace but walk around the Lagan area and loads of KAH (kill all huns) graffiti about. (Maybe Tyrone gaa players have been around) Thats Belfast for you. Bigger cities tend to have a bigger collection of twats about imo.

I find this one strange. Are the PSNI a normal police force assigned to carry out normal police duties like you'd see police so in Birmingham, London, Liverpool, Manchester?

IF so, the ones in those cities are prone now to questioning people if they make dangerous remarks online or in the media.....the police in England even recently 'spoke' to Jo Brand after she joked about throwing battery acid on a politician instead of a milkshake.

She was making a joke and was spoken to.

And there are plenty of other examples.

Yet in NI, you can fly swastika's, burn flags to antagonise your neighbours, burn tyres, ruin car parks, threaten staff etc etc, yet the police unfortunately can do nothing about it.

_blaaz · 12-07-2019 8:41pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Yet in NI, you can fly swastika's, burn flags to antagonise your neighbours, burn tyres, ruin car parks, threaten staff etc etc, yet the police unfortunately can do nothing about it.

If you call it culture and try pass it off as a fun family day...it'll be all ok

Personally i feel culturally enriched by seeing this....

The reason the psni wont do anything about it....is they are drawn from same communities as its culturally ok to.do this

The glorious 12th

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