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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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    #9092
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    It's pretty incredible how good Porter was today. Has made the step up to international rugby at TH after a handful of games. You could easily have forgiven him for getting a doing over in the scrum today but he was rock solid.

    Considering he was getting mullered at AIL level 12 months ago, his learning curve has been astronomical.


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    #9093
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    whatawaster wrote: »
    If SOB is fit, he is picked imo. He is a level or two above all our other backrow players, and is in the Murray-Sexton-Furlong category for me.

    It would entirely be a reputation pick and it would be wrong imo. He hasn't shown anything like being that sort of player since the Lions tour which is ancient history at this point. Leavy certainly deserves his place after today.


    That reputation being the best rugby player on the lions tour. He will be in the mix if fit, he has more physicality, better at the breakdown, better in link play and more football ability than all of our other options, in each of those facets individually. But yes he has to reprove it again which he has consistently for nearly a decade, so I wouldn't bet against him doing it again. Might not even be leavy that would lose out in that scenario. Realistically he'd do well to get 30 minutes by the Scotland game.


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    #9094
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    I wouldn't go rushing O'Brien in at 7. I think there's a great balance in the backrow at the minute. It would be great to have him as a bench option. The accuracy of clear outs by both Leavy and O'Mahony was outstanding today, and with Barclay and Watson being such a threat on opposition ball, I'd prefer to keep that duo in place.

    I'd also probably leave Ryan and Toner in place. Scotland used their own lineout effectively as an attacking platform and those two and O'Mahony would give us the best chance to target it. Stuart McInally is a converted backrow, so I'd like to see us put them under pressure on their throw.

    Halfbacks pick themselves, Farrell has done enough to retain the 13 shirt. I'd like to see Conway at fullback if he gets 80 mins under his belt for Munster at the weekend. Larmour back in the 23 shirt.

    I still have a nagging concern about the lack of width in the opposition red zone. Skipping ahead to Twickenham, I don't think England will cough up scores from picking and jamming, or one out passes like the Welsh did today. Twice towards the end of the first half, there were tries for the taking had we gone wide (I think Aki scored the second chance). The likes of Vunipola, Itoje, Launchbury, Hughes, etc will defend the 5 yards either side of the rucks far better than the Welsh did today.


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    #9095
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,739 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    If SOB is fit he plays IMO. Stander, Leavy and SOB would be just the tonic for the Scottish backrow headache we saw today in Murryfield. Sure he pretty much only plays for Ireland these days with the odd European game thrown in for Leinster. For all his many qualities, and he has many, his ability to absolutely blow opposition players out of a ruck is a joy to watch.

    It may seem harsh on POM but he hasn't hit his own high standards this year, plus he would be a great weapon to spring from the bench.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #9096
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    If available then Furlong and Henderson to come into the starting XV and SOB and Conway to the bench for me. I can't make an argument for Ringrose over Farrell after today given GR has very little gametime under his belt.


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    #9097
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    PTH2009 wrote: »
    we could be champs going over to England actually. A win for us vs Scotland and an England loss to France leaves this
    1 Ire 18/19 BP
    2 Eng 9/10BP
    3 Scot 8/9pts BP

    Scotland could win it all potentially if they beat us

    We need to win next day which is the main thing.

    We don't even need England to lose. If we got a BP win and England don't get a BP win then we've won the tournament.

    Yeah a BP win over Scotland and the title is more or less secured as our PD is already about 26 better than England's. A BP win over Scotland and you would assume you'd be able to add at least 10 to that. So effectively England would need 2 BP wins in Paris and at home against us, deny is a LBP and probably beat us by 15-20 points in the process.


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    #9098
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    joseywhales wrote: »
    Only changes I could see is Henderson (though Ryan and toner were imperious) and maybe sob(though leavy was phenomenal). The best thing about today was they consistently kept attacking for the entire game through phases and that we have more depth than we thought, notably Porter,Farrell and leavy. But with the options coming back, Ireland are a hard team to plan against now.

    The fitness required to play our game is painful to even imagine.

    There is no way SOB should just walk back into the team imo. Henderson and Furlong will come in I'm sure.

    Yes he does, every day of the week.

    He's struggled with injuries this season but he was one of the best players on the Lions Tour just a few months ago and he's a better back row than the three already in the team.


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    #9099
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Ringrose shouldn't be in the 23. He has played very little over the past 10 months and, one or two flashes aside, didn't look near his best against a pathetic Kings team. I could see him being exposed in a 6N test without being at his sharpest.

    Farrell is fine. Let himself and Aki continue and develop as a real option. Even a fully fit and firing Ringrose may find it hard to get back in the side if Farrell keeps going like this.


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    #9100
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Buer wrote: »
    Farrell is fine. Let himself and Aki continue and develop as a real option. Even a fully fit and firing Ringrose may find it hard to get back in the side if Farrell keeps going like this.

    Aki was pretty ropey today though. Our weakest player. And not really international standard I am fearing. Farrell Ringrose combo for Écosse if Ringrose plays full game well next weekend.


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    #9101
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Aki was pretty ropey today though. Our weakest player. And not really international standard I am fearing.

    You must have been watching a different game than me. Aki was an excellent carrier, and showed his class and power when scoring his try


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    #9102
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    There really is nothing funnier than watching Irish fans flip-flop over whether certain players are of standard or not.

    A couple of weeks ago Aki was the best thing since sliced bread now someone is saying he's not up to standard. He was very good carrying today but he did make a few errors. It happens.

    We really need to stop making judgement calls based on one game.


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    #9103
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Faugheen wrote: »
    There really is nothing funnier than watching Irish fans flip-flop over whether certain players are of standard or not.

    A couple of weeks ago Aki was the best thing since sliced bread now someone is saying he's not up to standard. He was very good carrying today but he did make a few errors. It happens.

    We really need to stop making judgement calls based on one game.

    Especially when you look at the criticism of the selection of Farrell in AIs.

    We still have issues mostly in defence (out wide) and also in opposition 22 we get very narrow.

    Healy and Stander in the first half going route one when we needed to go wide.


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    #9104
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    With 8 tries in 7 matches Jacob Stockdale is on course to beat BOD's record of 46 tries by the time he wins his 41st cap!


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    #9105
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    bilston wrote: »
    With 8 tries in 7 matches Jacob Stockdale is on course to beat BOD's record of 46 tries by the time he wins his 41st cap!

    Les hope he beats it!


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    #9106
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Great game today and great to get a win.
    I was pretty worried about Wales.

    I thought Farrell was superb and much more effective than Henshaw has been recently. Great depth there now. I get the feeling Farrell could be hard to shift.

    Our work at the breakdown was incredible today. We just didn't allow the Welsh any time there. It is the biggest difference Schmidt has made in the Irish set up.

    Porter had a great game and held the scrum up well. Healy was good too and that Welsh scrum is pretty good.

    Sexton must have been carrying some sort of knock. He seemed to skew his kicks from left to right so who knows if it was a knock or what.

    I still find we make awful hard work of scoring our tries. We seem incapable of putting the ball through the hands quickly in the backline or use decoy runners and put the player through around the back. Not sure if it is just a coaching issue or we don't have the hands/vision at 12/13.

    Come a world cup I am not sure if this physical style of play will allow us to play to the same level with a turnover of less than a week between games.

    We have great depth though now.
    Worries about the back up at 2, 10 and perhaps 15. We have been blessed that Sexton hasn't gone off early in a game. Other than that we have a great squad to play with.


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    #9107
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,020 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    I still find we make awful hard work of scoring our tries. We seem incapable of putting the ball through the hands quickly in the backline or use decoy runners and put the player through around the back. Not sure if it is just a coaching issue or we don't have the hands/vision at 12/13.
    Wasn't that how Stockdale's first try was scored? Ball through the hands and decoy runners getting Halfpenny turned in.


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    #9108
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Wasn't that how Stockdale's first try was scored? Ball through the hands and decoy runners getting Halfpenny turned in.

    It was, but in fairness there were two other occasions towards the end of the first half where simple hands would have resulted in tries on the right. I think against England in Twickenham we'll have to take every one of those chances on offer.


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    #9109
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,785 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    paddys day 2018 could be Glorious but but

    We have to beat Scotland in 2 weeks and with a BP just to make sure and don't get too cocky. They only beat us last year after we all thought we would walk through them

    Getting a title in London will be nice but not the same without getting the GS ??


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    #9110
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    paddys day 2018 could be Glorious but but

    We have to beat Scotland in 2 weeks and with a BP just to make sure and don't get too cocky. They only beat us last year after we all thought we would walk through them

    Getting a title in London will be nice but not the same without getting the GS ??

    How many times have we won the six nations?


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    #9111
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,369 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Stheno wrote: »
    How many times have we won the six nations?

    Three times since it became the six nations.


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    #9112
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    awec wrote: »
    Three times since it became the six nations.

    Since 2000

    Id take a 4th GS or not

    One of the nicest experiences i had today was in the pub we were in.

    There was an elderly couple beside us having lunch and as the game progressed they really got into it, despite not knowing the rules or how long the game was on for. We were chatting to them

    In the last ten minutes they were glued to the tv and cheered as much as everyone when we won, they both went nuts at the last try.


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    #9113
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,785 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Stheno wrote: »
    How many times have we won the six nations?

    paddys day itself is a piss up but a paddys day with Ireland possibly lifting the 6 nations trophy will be the cause of more drink lol

    all about the 10th March firstly vs Scotland

    A loss to Scotland will be very damaging but we have a chance to win the title in London either way. Scotland beat us they will be on 12 pts or 13pts with a BP win going into the last day and they face Italy away so they could end up being on 17/18 pts before we face England


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    #9114
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Stheno wrote: »
    How many times have we won the six nations?

    paddys day itself is a piss up but a paddys day with Ireland possibly lifting the 6 nations trophy will be the cause of more drink lol

    all about the 10th March firstly vs Scotland

    A loss to Scotland will be very damaging but we have a chance to win the title in London either way. Scotland beat us they will be on 12 pts or 13pts with a BP win going into the last day and they face Italy away so they could end up being on 17/18 pts before we face England
    From a team perspective I want us to win every game by one point between here and the world cup while renewing the team.

    From a party perspective I live in the us and I've booked tickets to NY specifically to see us beat England and join the revelery.

    Either way it's all positive


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    #9115
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    See a lot of people saying now that Farrell will be hard to shift.

    Let's calm down on the hyperbole. Farrell was great today, but it's one game. Pound-for-pound Henshaw and Ringrose are still better, more rounded players.

    What he can do though is allow himself to be an option, and we don't have to worry about what happens to Aki/Henshaw/Ringrose because Farrell can come in without a worry.

    He played very well, but let's not make him out to be the second coming. I posted earlier about Irish fans flip-flopping based on one performance. People are now saying Farrell is possibly first choice after one game..


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    #9116
    Johnny Farango
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Johnny Farango


    Faugheen wrote: »
    People are now saying Farrell is possibly first choice after one game..
    Farrell is first choice at the mo, on the back of the Wales game and his performance v Argentina. Ringrose is not fully fit/hasn't enough match practice so the argument is deferred to an extent. It will be rare enough in the modern game to have our first four centres fully fit so it's fantastic to have such options available. If all four are fit it's down to form I guess.


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    #9117
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Faugheen wrote: »
    People are now saying Farrell is possibly first choice after one game..

    Are they? I can't see that. But he clearly has an opportunity to make himself first choice right now.

    He's the man in possession, has played excellently in back to back starts for Ireland and Schmidt is a fan. He's absolutely in with a big chance of staying in the team. He'll see out this 6N and then it's up to others to get the Jersey back. There is no established Irish centre aside from Henshaw.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a midfield of Henshaw and Farrell combine this summer.


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    #9118
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Faugheen wrote: »
    See a lot of people saying now that Farrell will be hard to shift.

    Let's calm down on the hyperbole. Farrell was great today, but it's one game. Pound-for-pound Henshaw and Ringrose are still better, more rounded players.

    What he can do though is allow himself to be an option, and we don't have to worry about what happens to Aki/Henshaw/Ringrose because Farrell can come in without a worry.

    He played very well, but let's not make him out to be the second coming. I posted earlier about Irish fans flip-flopping based on one performance. People are now saying Farrell is possibly first choice after one game..

    Makes a change from 1 or 2 saying the wrong farrell was called up for AIs


    We have 5 or 6 viable centres now IMO

    Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose, Scannell, Farrell, McCloskey


    I hope Conway gets into the 23 for Scotland game. Start building back 3 options up as well as centre and win a 6n would be obscene


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    #9119
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    We still have pretty major issues with our attack which showed up at times. It's bizarre to say that when we scored so many tries, but we're getting great results out of taking advantage of Welsh errors, which is a brilliant level of ruthlessness. We're not getting our shape in place quick enough and we end up putting ourselves under huge pressure. However maybe that was down to Sexton not being at 100%. Wales must be furious with their performance off the ball, they had us under severe pressure in the first half but two big errors let us back into the game. After that they played extremely poorly after coming out for the second half. I think we were clearly the better team.

    In the first half we were getting very frustrated with our attack. We started playing the ball from within our own 10 meter line for the first time after about 30 minutes and weren't really going anywhere until a big defensive error led to a huge gap which we took brilliant advantage of. That led to a penalty for us (and it absolutely should have been a try for us but we blew the opportunity to get the ball to Earls with noone across from him). Then once again on our next possession in our own half we attacked for a few phases and went nowhere. Eventually Murray kicked the ball back to Wales but they gave away a pointless penalty being offside at that kick and we eventually scored from the territory that gave us. Those two moments in quick succession at the end of the first half gave us 10 points and completely changed the game. If Wales held their defensive integrity in our half during that period the game would have been very different at half time.

    We scored another try off a similar set of phases after a turnover we won in the 2nd half, 4 or 5 phases of extremely blunt attacking play almost killed the possession before we went wide and found a huge amount of space. I'm hoping moments like this will give the lads the confidence they need to go looking for that space out wide earlier against Scotland.


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    #9120
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,020 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    We still have pretty major issues with our attack which showed up at times. It's bizarre to say that when we scored so many tries, but we're getting great results out of taking advantage of Welsh errors, which is a brilliant level of ruthlessness. We're not getting our shape in place quick enough and we end up putting ourselves under huge pressure. However maybe that was down to Sexton not being at 100%. Wales must be furious with their performance off the ball, they had us under severe pressure in the first half but two big errors let us back into the game. After that they played extremely poorly after coming out for the second half. I think we were clearly the better team.

    In the first half we were getting very frustrated with our attack. We started playing the ball from within our own 10 meter line for the first time after about 30 minutes and weren't really going anywhere until a big defensive error led to a huge gap which we took brilliant advantage of. That led to a penalty for us (and it absolutely should have been a try for us but we blew the opportunity to get the ball to Earls with noone across from him). Then once again on our next possession in our own half we attacked for a few phases and went nowhere. Eventually Murray kicked the ball back to Wales but they gave away a pointless penalty being offside at that kick and we eventually scored from the territory that gave us. Those two moments in quick succession at the end of the first half gave us 10 points and completely changed the game. If Wales held their defensive integrity in our half during that period the game would have been very different at half time.

    We scored another try off a similar set of phases after a turnover we won in the 2nd half, 4 or 5 phases of extremely blunt attacking play almost killed the possession before we went wide and found a huge amount of space. I'm hoping moments like this will give the lads the confidence they need to go looking for that space out wide earlier against Scotland.
    Yeah. I was screaming at them to go out to Earls and I think there were two phases where that was on and we trucked it up instead. I think Stander took one of them and can't remember who took the other. But after that the space was covered off.

    Wales were often getting pulled to one side defensively and leaving gaps on the other. We did not take advantage of a lot of those opportunities. Even Bundee's try was a trot in if he'd turned right. :)


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    #9121
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Buer wrote: »
    Are they? I can't see that. But he clearly has an opportunity to make himself first choice right now.

    He's the man in possession, has played excellently in back to back starts for Ireland and Schmidt is a fan. He's absolutely in with a big chance of staying in the team. He'll see out this 6N and then it's up to others to get the Jersey back. There is no established Irish centre aside from Henshaw.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a midfield of Henshaw and Farrell combine this summer.

    Yes, people are saying he'll be hard to shift. Which means they are saying he's possibly first choice. Knowing Irish fans, next time he has a below par performance there will be the greatest over-reaction we've seen since ROG/Sexton would miss a kick at the height of that rivalry. There's two better 13s than him when fit.

    It's like last year, when people said Sexton would have a hard time getting back into the team because Jackson was playing so well. If you have a better player at a position then that player gets picked. It's very simple.

    Truth is, Farrell is doing what he should be doing, but Ringrose and Henshaw are both better rugby players than him. Farrell missed more tackles than any other Irish player yesterday, so he still has a lot to work on in defence. Let's relax and let him play his rugby without putting such pressures on him.


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