BMW i3

KCross · 06-12-2017 4:38pm

Tut tut BMW!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/bmw-i3-car-ad-banned-for-misleading-environmental-claims-817390.html

On a more positive note:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/bmw-eyes-rise-in-e-car-sales-817326.html

BMW’s struggles with slow sales of the i3 city car, which used a lightweight carbon-fibre body for the first time in a mass-produced vehicle, prompted the carmaker to dial back its electric ambitions and pause from adding more electric-only models to its line-up.

In the future, BMW will bundle its electric model versions under its ‘i’ brand, and has reserved naming rights for models iX1 through iX9. Next year, it’s bringing out an electric Mini, followed by a battery-powered X3 sport utility vehicle in 2020.

zilog_jones · 06-12-2017 5:18pm

...a small petrol engine that did not power the car but maintained the battery charge

My brain hurts from reading statements like this. What's "powering the car"? The ICE is providing power to a component in the car that ultimately (if indirectly) drives the wheels. These journalists aren't very good at this stuff...

Shefwedfan · 07-12-2017 10:14am

This might seem odd question but was asked it last night

So lets say you forget to plug in i3 at night. Get up next morning and battery is empty but tank is full. I guess you can drive off and run it off the tank all day? even if you need to refill the tank?

Or are you supposed to pull in and charge it and then head off?

ELM327 · 07-12-2017 11:09am

zilog_jones wrote: »

My brain hurts from reading statements like this. What's "powering the car"? The ICE is providing power to a component in the car that ultimately (if indirectly) drives the wheels. These journalists aren't very good at this stuff...

The ICE is not connected to the wheels, so it generates power stored in the battery and the battery powers the EV drivetrain which drives the wheels.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This might seem odd question but was asked it last night

So lets say you forget to plug in i3 at night. Get up next morning and battery is empty but tank is full. I guess you can drive off and run it off the tank all day? even if you need to refill the tank?

Or are you supposed to pull in and charge it and then head off?

That's the idea with the BEVx, once you have fossil fuel and/or battery charge you can drive. Even if you "run out" of both, you've got approx 4-8km (approx6% of SOC) of EV buffer afterwards.

cros13 · 07-12-2017 11:18am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So lets say you forget to plug in i3 at night. Get up next morning and battery is empty but tank is full. I guess you can drive off and run it off the tank all day? even if you need to refill the tank?

Actually, if it's totally empty it won't start and if it's got just enough power to start it won't drive until the REx has run for a couple of minutes (with the car standing still) and recharged the battery to at least 3.5% SoC. Then the car will drive but won't be able to accelerate properly or go up anything much in the way of hills.

The REx will also not run until the battery is below 75% SoC.

Ideally the REx should be used with a battery charged over 20-25%, because especially at motorway speed it will be unable to keep up with the power demands and will continue to discharge the battery while the REx is running.

zilog_jones · 07-12-2017 12:16pm

ELM327 wrote: »

The ICE is not connected to the wheels, so it generates power stored in the battery and the battery powers the EV drivetrain which drives the wheels.

Yes, the ICE does not drive the wheels directly - but the point I'm trying to make is saying it doesn't "power the car" is essentially incorrect, as the ICE is a power source for the car. The article tries to explain this concept in such a half-assed manner they might as well not bothered. It's nearly as bad as the other complete nonsense terminology I regularly see in newspapers, like "electronic vehicle"

That's the idea with the BEVx, once you have fossil fuel and/or battery charge you can drive. Even if you "run out" of both, you've got approx 4-8km (approx6% of SOC) of EV buffer afterwards.

I think cros13 explained it pretty well, but you can't rely on ICE power in the i3 as there's only a 25 kW motorbike engine in there, which isn't enough power to cope with all driving situations.

It's like the opposite of my car (1st gen Prius Plug-in), where the EV mode power is insufficient for all conditions - so the ICE will kick in if you floor it or exceed 85 km/h.

jhegarty · 07-12-2017 1:41pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This might seem odd question but was asked it last night

So lets say you forget to plug in i3 at night. Get up next morning and battery is empty but tank is full. I guess you can drive off and run it off the tank all day? even if you need to refill the tank?

Or are you supposed to pull in and charge it and then head off?

The Rex tries not leave the charge go below 7%. It will keep running after you power down the car if you have low charge (and email you to give out

).

The only way to get an empty battery on an I3 is to have an empty fuel tank.

n97 mini · 07-12-2017 2:14pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

My brain hurts from reading statements like this. What's "powering the car"? The ICE is providing power to a component in the car that ultimately (if indirectly) drives the wheels. These journalists aren't very good at this stuff...

I met a REX owner the other day at an FCP who wasn't complimentary about the REX bit of the car... Said going up hills or doing any sort of speed is dodgy when the SOC is low as the engine can't charge the battery as quick as the battery is being discharged. He doesn't keep any petrol in the tank as a result (I think he said something about it turning to jelly if left sitting long enough, but I may have dreamt that).

zilog_jones · 07-12-2017 2:54pm

Petrol normally goes "off" after about 6 months or so, often causes problems with lawnmowers (carburettors getting clogged up, etc.) - but I think the i3 has a pressurised tank to combat this? Certainly does on the US models.

TBi · 07-12-2017 3:38pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I met a REX owner the other day at an FCP who wasn't complimentary about the REX bit of the car... Said going up hills or doing any sort of speed is dodgy when the SOC is low as the engine can't charge the battery as quick as the battery is being discharged. He doesn't keep any petrol in the tank as a result (I think he said something about it turning to jelly if left sitting long enough, but I may have dreamt that).

I'd say he just doesn't' really understand how it works and ran the battery too low in EV mode instead of letting the car do it's own thing. They had the issue in US because the REX wouldn't come on until you had very low SOC (6%?) and so the motor couldn't charge up fast enough to cope with the strain. However in europe it should come on with 20-25% charge left so loads of buffer to keep it going. He must have forced it into EV mode and pushed it past it's comfort zone.

It reminds me of someone who complained the mark 2 Focus was a slow car. He couldn't understand that it was the engine that was the problem (1.4L petrol was underpowered for the car) and that a bigger engine would be night and day. To him even with a 3.0l v8 it would still be a slow car...

unkel · 07-12-2017 4:52pm

TBi wrote: »

However in europe it should come on with 20-25% charge left

Does that mean you can only do about 70km or so at 120km/h (real speed) in the 22kWh before the REX kicks in?

n97 mini · 07-12-2017 4:58pm

TBi wrote: »

I'd say he just doesn't' really understand how it works and ran the battery too low in EV mode instead of letting the car do it's own thing. They had the issue in US because the REX wouldn't come on until you had very low SOC (6%?) and so the motor couldn't charge up fast enough to cope with the strain. However in europe it should come on with 20-25% charge left so loads of buffer to keep it going. He must have forced it into EV mode and pushed it past it's comfort zone.

I dunno, he seems to be very knowledgeable. I think his job is something to do with EVs as he knows a lot about other cars too, stuff that 99.99% of people wouldn't know.

TBi wrote: »

It reminds me of someone who complained the mark 2 Focus was a slow car. He couldn't understand that it was the engine that was the problem (1.4L petrol was underpowered for the car) and that a bigger engine would be night and day. To him even with a 3.0l v8 it would still be a slow car...

That 1.4 litre engine was a complete dog though at only 70bhp. Easily worst in class. Competitors were doing 90bhp from the same displacement.

cros13 · 07-12-2017 5:20pm

TBi wrote: »

I'd say he just doesn't' really understand how it works and ran the battery too low in EV mode instead of letting the car do it's own thing. They had the issue in US because the REX wouldn't come on until you had very low SOC (6%?) and so the motor couldn't charge up fast enough to cope with the strain. However in europe it should come on with 20-25% charge left so loads of buffer to keep it going. He must have forced it into EV mode and pushed it past it's comfort zone.

Nope. The REx comes on in europe at 6.5% same as the US. The difference is that the i3 REx owners in the US cannot activate the REx manually above that.
European REx owners can manually activate the REx between 6.5% and 75% state of charge.

The US owners of the 22kWh also have a software block that prevents them from using more than ~7 liters of the fuel in the tank.

Both of these restrictions are due to the BEVx classification in the US, which among other things requires the combustion range of the vehicle to be below the EV range.
BMW gets extra credits in ZEV states for BEVx over a plug-in hybrid.

Yes, the fuel tank in the i3 is pressurised and yes the fuel does go bad if unused. In many i3 REx the motor never runs except for the automatic maintenance cycles.
Part of the servicing for the i3 REx is draining the fuel tank and replacing the fuel, just in case it's been in there for 2 years.

Some i3 REx owners, esp those who don't use the REx much use fuel stabilizer additives to help ensure they have good fuel in the tank if it's needed.

07-12-2017 5:35pm

I used the Rex as a test from Ballinasloe to Galway about 2 weeks ago, used it as soon as it hit 75% battery, the charge % at 120 Kph went down way, way , way slower than it would have without the Rex. It's more powerful in the 33 Kwh version so maybe that helps.

I had about 80% battery when I left Ballinasloe and it was at around 67 % by the time I got to Galway driving at 120 Kph , if I remember correctly , so that's well more than useful to me.

As Cros said, it's best to use it if you can well before 6% battery.

Here's a different driving scenario, back in July in the test I3 Rex I drove from Joe Duffy Motors to Galway mostly on battery at 110 Kph, Rex kicked in the last maybe 10 mins just as I got into Galway City when the charge % hit about 6%, I then went to the fast charge charge point on The Rex, charge up 10 mins then got to an AC point and charged the rest on AC . I should have turned further back on the Motorway but missed the turn , anyway, if I were in the BEV version of the I3 I would have had to stop on the way down for a charge and I still had the option to do so but the Rex gave me the advantage that I didn't have to bother and as Unkel said in another post that the Rex allows you to use all of the available charge where in a BEV you might have 20 % charge or more you can't use because you got to find a charge point and get there with more charge than you can use.

So the Rex is better to have than want and I'm really happy I have it there for peace of mind until the network improves and cars charge faster, though the 33 Kwh charges a lot faster than a 24 Kwh Leaf and faster then the older 22 Kwh i3 there are times when chargers will be in use or perhaps broken.

Rex means that you can use it on a long motorway run from 75% battery drive until the next garage, top up with petrol and drive again or use the Rex and then continue on battery when you're sure you'll make it to the next charge point or turn it off when you get to town and drive the rest on battery and plug in when you find a charge point.

I must get the 3 Phase charging lead which will be really handy charging at 11 Kw from the AC points.

Rex means flexibility you absolutely do not have with a BEV only car.

Shefwedfan · 07-12-2017 6:14pm

Nice description Mad_Lad

Ok, if I take my current situation, I have 100km spin from house to parents house. I can do this no problem in the eGolf going at 110km but when I get to parents I aint going to far till I charge. I use a granny cable so last time it said I would have it charged in 7 hours

So with REX, I could potentially turn it on during trip down so when I arrive I have more battery left in car so if I need to spin around then I can do majority on battery?

Or leave off REX, but if I have little battery(say 20%) I can then kick in REX and just drive around for day on REX?

Now the other question which was the one asked last night, lets say I have only 20% battery left. No charger working. Really can I spin around and do Xkm that day, even if I have to refill the tank or should I really try and hit a charger somewhere?

Shefwedfan · 07-12-2017 6:19pm

The person asking the question bought a X5 jeep for driving around Dublin and the very very odd spin to Cork/Galway etc.....

He has spent the last few years complaining about the amount of diesel he pumps into it each week but won't look at anything buy BMW etc......

jhegarty · 07-12-2017 8:27pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Now the other question which was the one asked last night, lets say I have only 20% battery left. No charger working. Really can I spin around and do Xkm that day, even if I have to refill the tank or should I really try and hit a charger somewhere?

I drove Dublin airport to west Cork on the rex (two tanks and little from the battery) when the 2 fast chargers I planned for didn't work.

It will keep the car going at 110kph without an issue. I found 120 kph worked on the motorway when steady driving.

07-12-2017 8:51pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok, if I take my current situation, I have 100km spin from house to parents house. I can do this no problem in the eGolf going at 110km but when I get to parents I aint going to far till I charge. I use a granny cable so last time it said I would have it charged in 7 hours

The I3 33 Kwh should do this no issue with plenty of range to spare.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So with REX, I could potentially turn it on during trip down so when I arrive I have more battery left in car so if I need to spin around then I can do majority on battery?

Yes !

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Or leave off REX, but if I have little battery(say 20%) I can then kick in REX and just drive around for day on REX?

Yes !

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Now the other question which was the one asked last night, lets say I have only 20% battery left. No charger working. Really can I spin around and do Xkm that day, even if I have to refill the tank or should I really try and hit a charger somewhere?

You can drive all day on the Rex as long as you have petrol, but it's really designed to get you to the next charge point or home or can Charge at your convenience, this is the major difference with the Rex.

You may need to keep the speed down if you're low on battery or as others have said hill climbing maybe limited at speed, so motorway inclines at 120 Kph with very low battery particularly with the older 22 Kwh Rex which had less power.

I have not tested the Rex much yet but very impressed with the 33 Kwh so far.

KCross · 16-01-2018 10:32pm

https://speakev.com/threads/bugger-will-this-one-t-cut-out.90761/

The pics of that door don't look that bad but based on the comments from the owner its very difficult to get repaired even in the UK with only 2 BMW repair centres in the UK being able to handle the i3 carbon fibre!

Whats the story in Ireland?

Anyone have to do any major repair work (including air bags etc) on an i3 on the forum? Did the insurance just decide to write it off or what?

Would make you think twice if they are that hard/expensive to repair?

cros13 · 17-01-2018 2:57am

Basic repair costs for minor accidents are below a 1-series. The thermoplastic body panels are cheap as chips and clip on and off.
Most repairs are easier than conventionally built cars and have lower labor costs in the repair schedule.

I've had two instances of repair work for impacts from road debris including large pieces of steel from a vehicle crash ahead of me impacting the side of the car. Cheap as chips, less than €300 for several panels, side skirts and labor.

The great thing about i3 repairs is there's no panel beating, bending back of frame pieces or crash structure repairs. It's usually a straight swap of the damaged part for a brand new part and the car is good as new.

The exceptions are anything that touches the carbon fiber and windscreen repairs. I've had both.

The carbon fiber repair was due to one of the clips that holds on the body panels getting knocked off due to a test drive gone wrong with a friend in a shopping center car park.
The car got hopped up on top of the shopping trolley return. The repair at that time required the car be shipped to the UK for the carbon fiber work.
I believe Bavarian in Belfast can now do these repairs if required.

The windscreen was another adventure, I had the first windscreen replacement on an Irish i3. The trainer was brought in from the UK to teach the Mr. Windscreen lads to do the replacement. Because I have the active safety/semi-autonomous driving it all needed to be recalibrated after the replacement by Joe Duffy.

Warning: if you need a windscreen replacement on an i3, this must be done by someone specifically trained on the i3 or i8. Because the windscreen is mounted on the carbon fiber reinforced polymer frame, special tools and adhesives are required for removal and replacement of the windscreen. Use of steel wire to remove the windscreen or certain solvents can damage the frame and turn the whole car into an insurance write-off. Your insurance company and the windscreen company may not know this!

KCross · 17-01-2018 11:30am

cros13 wrote: »

I've had two instances of repair work for impacts from road debris including large pieces of steel from a vehicle crash ahead of me impacting the side of the car. Cheap as chips, less than €300 for several panels, side skirts and labor.

The great thing about i3 repairs is there's no panel beating, bending back of frame pieces or crash structure repairs. It's usually a straight swap of the damaged part for a brand new part and the car is good as new.

Right, so minor damage is cheap and easy to fix. Its basically lego!

cros13 wrote: »

The carbon fiber repair was due to one of the clips that holds on the body panels getting knocked off due to a test drive gone wrong with a friend in a shopping center car park.
The car got hopped up on top of the shopping trolley return. The repair at that time required the car be shipped to the UK for the carbon fiber work.
I believe Bavarian in Belfast can now do these repairs if required.

This is the worry.
Anything beyond a benign tip results in having to go to one of two repair shops in the UK!!!

Thats not good!

I suspect insurance companies will become wise to this at some point and could start loading the i3.

ted1 · 17-01-2018 2:57pm

Swapping out panels is easy. But what about colour matching? Painting cheap panels to match existing panels that have faded can be expensive.

n97 mini · 17-01-2018 3:05pm

ted1 wrote: »

Swapping out panels is easy. But what about colour matching? Painting cheap panels to match existing panels that have faded can be expensive.

Presumably the panels come painted from the factory?

ted1 · 17-01-2018 5:33pm

n97 mini wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Swapping out panels is easy. But what about colour matching? Painting cheap panels to match existing panels that have faded can be expensive.

Presumably the panels come painted from the factory?

Paint fades so, if you need panels for a 3 year old car one from the factory won’t match. It’s what adds so much to replacing panels and bumpers

cros13 · 17-01-2018 8:40pm

The painting process used for the i3 is a new technique that bonds the paint with the panel.
I don't know if there's much issue with the paint changing color over time vs traditional automotive paints.

n97 mini · 18-01-2018 12:37am

ted1 wrote: »

Paint fades so, if you need panels for a 3 year old car one from the factory won’t match. It’s what adds so much to replacing panels and bumpers

I'm aware paint fades, I'm just presuming the panels come painted from the factory, so you have to suck it up? I had to get the back bumper on my car replaced 3-4 years ago (rear ended) and the new bumper came painted from the factory (and was around €230, so cheaper than getting a repair/spray job). The colour was very slightly out, but the car itself was 10 years old, so to be expected. You'd have noticed the difference if someone told you back then, but today they're essentially the same colour.

Arbie · 19-01-2018 12:59am

We took a quick spin in an i3 recently, such a fun car to drive. I'd like to test drive it for a day or ideally a weekend. Do I just ring a dealer and ask?

19-01-2018 2:09am

Arbie wrote: »

We took a quick spin in an i3 recently, such a fun car to drive. I'd like to test drive it for a day or ideally a weekend. Do I just ring a dealer and ask?

Call Rory MacDermott in frank Keane Motors Naas Road, I'm sure he can sort this out for you no problem. He is great to deal with.

Yes the i3 is a lot of fun , back roads are a dream to drive in it I love it !

peposhi · 19-01-2018 7:13am

I have just read that i3 and i8 won’t have a next gen. There are going to be 25 new models of which 12 will be BEV. Source - Autocar magazine, Robert Irlinger and Domagoy Dukec the 2 lads running the i-show...

Matt Simis · 19-01-2018 1:20pm

peposhi wrote: »

I have just read that i3 and i8 won’t have a next gen. There are going to be 25 new models of which 12 will be BEV. Source - Autocar magazine, Robert Irlinger and Domagoy Dukec the 2 lads running the i-show...

Yeah not so sure I believe in Autocars reporting. Previously elsewhere it was heavily suggested the next i8 may be all electric. Since then there is also talk of an "i8s" with supercar performance (a super hybrid, not all EV) to match the looks.*

*I have one and love it, but sub-400bhp is on paper not converting Lambo buyers, despite the stellar real-world performance.

BMW i3

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