BMW i3

jerryg

Soarer wrote: »

Top work.

For the learned, if all things were equal (year, mileage, etc.), would an i3 be a better choice than a Leaf? Is their battery better at handling fast charges? Would the Leaf be better than it in any way?

Also, what are desirable extras that you'd look for in the i3? Harman Kardon, etc.?

My advice would be to go back to the start of this thread and read it carefully particularly people who have i3s as their advice is valuable I would particularly read Crosi3 as he deals in fact not supposition.

My own ownership is only 10,000 Km with the new bigger battery model but my advice would be a Rex with the older model and fast charging but this will depend on your annual mileage after that its personal preferences and budget.

stesaurus

Soarer wrote: »

Top work.

For the learned, if all things were equal (year, mileage, etc.), would an i3 be a better choice than a Leaf? Is their battery better at handling fast charges? Would the Leaf be better than it in any way?

Also, what are desirable extras that you'd look for in the i3? Harman Kardon, etc.?

They are different segment cars. The i3 is a much better drive over all and a nicer place to be. The Leaf has a bigger boot and 3 seats in the back.
Pro nav and heat pump are the extras to get.

Soarer

Cheers guys.

With the sterling dropping a bit again, and the lack of vrt, the i3 is looking at being a nice little import. But I've spent so long reading about the Leaf, as I always thought the i3 was out of my price range, I'm starting from scratch where that's concerned.

All I know is I don't think I'd need the Rex. Average 30kms per day I'd say. Definitely not more than 40.

jhegarty

Soarer wrote: »

and the lack of vrt,

You will still pay VRT on the REX , just at a reduced rate.

Soarer

jhegarty wrote: »

You will still pay VRT on the REX , just at a reduced rate.

Yeah I know.

Don't need it though.

The Rooster

Never had an EV or plug-in hybrid before, but am seriously considering importing a second hand BMW from the UK, and would really appreciate some advice in relation to home charging please.

Wall mounted EVSE
I won't qualify for a free ESB one as it's a second hand car, (think I'd be better getting a 32A one anyway) so what do people usually do in such circumstances?
I see from the BMW website that they do a BMW Wallbox Pure 32A for €1,485 including installation. Would there be any benefits to getting the BMW one as opposed to a cheaper version.

Do typically the wall mounted EVSE's have one or two "sockets" (for want of a better word, I have zero electrician knowledge!). So if the wife changed to an EV or plug-in hybrid next year too would I need another EVSE or would one cover us both?

Do the EVSE's work with all type of plug-in cars or if I change car in the future (e.g. if say I got a Tesla in a couple of years), would I need to chance the EVSE?
I wonder if the BMW Wallbox only does BMWs or all cars.

stesaurus

The Rooster wrote: »

Never had an EV or plug-in hybrid before, but am seriously considering importing a second hand BMW from the UK, and would really appreciate some advice in relation to home charging please.

Wall mounted EVSE
I won't qualify for a free ESB one as it's a second hand car, (think I'd be better getting a 32A one anyway) so what do people usually do in such circumstances?
I see from the BMW website that they do a BMW Wallbox Pure 32A for €1,485 including installation. Would there be any benefits to getting the BMW one as opposed to a cheaper version.

Do typically the wall mounted EVSE's have one or two "sockets" (for want of a better word, I have zero electrician knowledge!). So if the wife changed to an EV or plug-in hybrid next year too would I need another EVSE or would one cover us both?

Do the EVSE's work with all type of plug-in cars or if I change car in the future (e.g. if say I got a Tesla in a couple of years), would I need to chance the EVSE?
I wonder if the BMW Wallbox only does BMWs or all cars.

No advantage to the BMW version.

Usually only 1 socket in a home install. 32a is at the limit of what a household can handle so no chance of having a dual charger at those speeds.
You can buy dual chargers but unless you would have 3 phase then you'd be likely limited to 3.3kw each and it would probably be a pedestal style.
It would make more sense to hold off and install a 2nd charger if you went 2 EVs but don't do it now. Lot more choices I'm sure down the road as take up increases.

Tethered chargers are specific to car. So a tethered type 2 for a BMW would not charge a Leaf and vice versa. It's only a plug though at end of the day so it can be changed if needed. A non tethered socket type will charge all but you'll need to have the specific cable for each car. That's usually a given as you'll need it for public charging, except for fast charging.

KCross

The Rooster wrote: »

Never had an EV or plug-in hybrid before, but am seriously considering importing a second hand BMW from the UK, and would really appreciate some advice in relation to home charging please.

Wall mounted EVSE
I won't qualify for a free ESB one as it's a second hand car, (think I'd be better getting a 32A one anyway) so what do people usually do in such circumstances?
I see from the BMW website that they do a BMW Wallbox Pure 32A for €1,485 including installation. Would there be any benefits to getting the BMW one as opposed to a cheaper version.

Do typically the wall mounted EVSE's have one or two "sockets" (for want of a better word, I have zero electrician knowledge!). So if the wife changed to an EV or plug-in hybrid next year too would I need another EVSE or would one cover us both?

Do the EVSE's work with all type of plug-in cars or if I change car in the future (e.g. if say I got a Tesla in a couple of years), would I need to chance the EVSE?
I wonder if the BMW Wallbox only does BMWs or all cars.

Some threads on the EVSE here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101089116
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100706332
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057629614
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057617637

Cant see any advantage to getting a BMW one that would be worth €1500!

You should be able to get it installed for a little more than €500 if you source the materials yourself and get an electrician to connect it up, which is no more complicated than wiring an outside socket.

Most EVSE's have one charge socket. You can get double socket units but they are typically for commercial and 3-phase applications where they have 22kW 3-phase capability. Not saying they dont exist though for home users, just havent seen them.

However, if you can get one with 2 sockets you would have to figure out how it would charge 2 cars simultaneously as you only have a limited single phase supply at home, so if a 6.6kW Leaf connected how would another car connect without blowing fuses? It would need to be a "smart" EVSE somehow which I'd imagine would drive up the cost.


You have a choice of buying a tethered or untethered unit. An untethered unit will have a type 2 socket so you can charge any car with that using the appropriate cable for the car. A tethered unit can only charge cars that fit that tethered cable.

Soarer

Does this seem almost too cheap? Would it carry the mileage ok?

i3

stesaurus

Link not working

Found it anyway by shortening the link. Mileage wouldn't be an issue really but looks like no fast DC charging(rapid) so I wouldn't touch it for that reason.

jhegarty

s.welstead wrote: »

Link not working

Found it anyway by shortening the link. Mileage wouldn't be an issue really but looks like no fast DC charging(rapid) so I wouldn't touch it for that reason.

Seems to be very hard to find an older Rex with DC (in the UK). I don't think there was any compatible fast chargers over there back when those cars would have been ordered.

Soarer

Would you need a fast charger with a Rex? Would you not just put some petrol in?

You won't want to put petrol in it when you discover how cheap electricity is !

stesaurus

Soarer wrote: »

Would you need a fast charger with a Rex? Would you not just put some petrol in?

You don't get full performance when running from the generator and like madlad said why have an EV if planning on using petrol often.
If the range of the car suited your commute etc. and you would just charge at night then a non DC with REx could suit you for the times you need to go a bit further.
You can get a full charge in about 3 hours from a slow charger or if you had a 32a home charger. So if you needed the full range for work but needed to go back out again in the evening you could survive without DC. Only you can say really.

Soarer

s.welstead wrote: »

You don't get full performance when running from the generator and like madlad said why have an EV if planning on using petrol often.
If the range of the car suited your commute etc. and you would just charge at night then a non DC with REx could suit you for the times you need to go a bit further.
You can get a full charge in about 3 hours from a slow charger or if you had a 32a home charger. So if you needed the full range for work but needed to go back out again in the evening you could survive without DC. Only you can say really.

The most I'd be doing per day is about 50kms. That'd only be twice a week. Normally it'd be less than 30kms. Work has told me that they'll put in a charger if I buy an EV, so that'll help.
The only reason I mentioned throwing petrol into the Rex is someone mentioned looking for, or the lack of, fast chargers in the early i3. I actually don't think I'd need the Rex at all.

What I really need to know is if the i3 suffers the battery degradation and reduction of mileage over time as the Leaf.
If it doesn't, and if you were to source one, what would be the best/most useful options to look for?

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

What I really need to know is if the i3 suffers the battery degradation and reduction of mileage over time as the Leaf.
If it doesn't, and if you were to source one, what would be the best/most useful options to look for?

What degradation are you talking about ? the late 2013+ battery is proving extremely reliable.

My Battery is still showing 65.5 Ah after 2 years and 57,800 kms exactly the same as the day I bought it.

The early Leaf 2011-131 suffering far greater degradation.

Soarer

Deleted User wrote: »

What degradation are you talking about ? the late 2013+ battery is proving extremely reliable.

The early Leaf 2011-131 suffering far greater degradation.

That degradation! :rolleyes:

cros13

KCross wrote: »

Cant see any advantage to getting a BMW one that would be worth €1500!

Yup zero-advantage to the BMW Pure over any other 32A chargepoint. If you really like the look of it you can buy them on ebay for €400-500. You can get the fancy Wallbox Pro with the LCD, smart-home integration (only for a few german smart-home brands) and 2nd input for solar for about €800-900 on ebay.

KCross wrote: »

However, if you can get one with 2 sockets you would have to figure out how it would charge 2 cars simultaneously as you only have a limited single phase supply at home, so if a 6.6kW Leaf connected how would another car connect without blowing fuses? It would need to be a "smart" EVSE somehow which I'd imagine would drive up the cost.

There are a few of these smart EVSEs coming onto the market in the US now. They take say a 40A input and then dynamically adjust how much is sent to each car, even prioritizing the car that has a trip coming up according to a calendar.

Soarer wrote: »

What I really need to know is if the i3 suffers the battery degradation and reduction of mileage over time as the Leaf.
If it doesn't, and if you were to source one, what would be the best/most useful options to look for?

Definitely don't touch an i3 without DC rapid. It limits your options severely and will make resale difficult. You will drive more mileage than you anticipate, both because it's fun to drive and because it costs next to nothing to run.

I have 105,000km on the i3 now with no perceptible loss (though additional depth of discharge was opened up by software updates which might be masking some minor degradation).

Unlike the Leaf, the i3's pack has thermal-management and heats/cools the battery as required to maintain performance and improve longevity.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

There are a few of these smart EVSEs coming onto the market in the US now.

ooo! ooo! I remembered something over lunch.... The Tesla Wall Connector is available in europe now.... and it supports the i3 (Zoe doesn't work).
It has a load sharing system for managing power delivery across multiple chargepoints already built in. €465 with a 2.5m cable or €512 with a 7.5m cable.
Just needs a bit of bell wire between the two chargepoints.

https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/support/installation-tesla-wall-connector?redirect=no

https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/support/load-sharing-tesla-wall-connector?redirect=no

Soarer

Thanks cros.

Is the rapid charger known as something fancy? Or is there a way for someone to check if the car has it if the seller doesn't know?

cros13

If you can get the last seven digits of the VIN you can lookup the spec here:
http://bimmer.work/

It's called "DC Rapid Charge Preparation" or "Fast Charging DC" depending on the model year. Option code is 4U7.

"4U8 Fast Charging AC" is a base spec code used to indicate 7.4kW AC charging. Standard in every i3 after 2014 and fitted to most before then anyway.

If you can't get the VIN to confirm the charging socket on a DC equipped i3 should look like this:


Whereas a non DC just has a centered Type 2 socket without the two DC pins:

Soarer

Perfect, thanks.

So if I aim for a mid 14 example, I shouldn't have to worry about things?

cros13

Soarer wrote: »

So if I aim for a mid 14 example, I shouldn't have to worry about things?

Errr.... one thing.... there was a recall around then for a design flaw with the KLE (Komfortladeelektronik / "Convenience Charging Electronics"... one of the two AC chargers in the car (the other is built into the motor controller/inverter unit)). It was overheating/limiting charging rate and had to be redesigned and retrofitted. Any car with a production date after mid Nov-2014 has had the new KLE since production.

BMW will of course replace the recalled KLE for free. Also a second recall for all i3s pre-July 2016 for a new design of motor mounting bolts.

Make sure both get done and you'll be grand. BMW warranty is 8-year/160,000km on the powertrain/battery and 3-year/unlimited mileage on the rest of the car if you want to get one just inside the warranty in case there are any issues with trim or the like.

Soarer

Just seen a 14 reg Rex, which is March to August 2014, described as "rapid charge alternating current".

That's not what I'm looking for, no?!

jhegarty

Soarer wrote: »

Just seen a 14 reg Rex, which is March to August 2014, described as "rapid charge alternating current".

That's not what I'm looking for, no?!

You want dc. Both should be listed on the VIN lookup page

cros13

Soarer wrote: »

That's not what I'm looking for, no?!

Yup, not what you are looking for.

Soarer

Dare I ask the difference between rapid charge ac and dc?

cros13

Soarer wrote: »

Dare I ask the difference between rapid charge ac and dc?

DC rapid charge: 50kW | 0-80% in about 20 minutes
AC rapid charge...isn't a proper use of the term...and: 7.4kW | 0-80% in about 3 hours

By using the term "rapid charge" the seller is trying to confuse potential buyers.
They know their car isn't as saleable because it lacks DC rapid charging.

If they were honest it would knock €3-4k off the price... and I'd still recommend against buying it.

I wouldn't but any ev without rapid charging, the Rex as I gather isn't designed for frequent use, but even if it were I'd find it an awful shame to have to use petrol in an ev especially considering the cost !

The Black Oil

James May had a few issues accessing charging stations in his review.