Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

Widdershins wrote: »

Hmm. So essentially, it's ok to cause trouble for his missus if you're genuinely attracted to her?

Not exactly. It's not ok to cause trouble for anyone, but marriage doesn't bestow ownership.
If Mr X's wife decides she wants to be with someone else, Mr X has no right of veto, nor should he. If she decides she wants someone else, then she wants someone else and that's that. To shun someone just because they are married, is exactly the same thing as giving Mr X that veto.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Not exactly. It's not ok to cause trouble for anyone, but marriage doesn't bestow ownership.
If Mr X's wife decides she wants to be with someone else, Mr X has no right of veto, nor should he. If she decides she wants someone else, then she wants someone else and that's that. To shun someone just because they are married, is exactly the same thing as giving Mr X that veto.

There is a difference between ownership and exclusivity though.



It's not about a veto it's a reasonable explanation that the other partner will uphold their vows.

I would respect the vows they made and stay out of it.

Shergar6 wrote: »

dfeo wrote: »

If a woman has an affair people say "her husband must be an arsehole".

If a man has an affair, people say "the man is an arsehole".

Either way, the finger of blame points at the man.

Oh that's bull****. Women are painted with the scarlet letter if they cheat or are the 'other woman'. Even other women are misogynistic towards them -  probably worse than men. Slut, whore, tramp ....

Meanwhile the man is just being a man, sure what do you expect -  he msutn't have been getting it at home.

Look at celeb examples -  Men who have humiliated their wives -  Schwarzeneggar, Tiger Woods etc - who even mentions it any more? People more or less laughed at the Arnie story of him knocking up the housekeeper.

Look at Brangelina -  who got the judgement there? Angelina of course. She got her claws into Jen's husband and 'stole' him. To this day she's disliked for it. Now that they're divorcing it's still her fault because she is a bitch who made his life hell.

Other women celebs who cheated -  Meg Ryan -  still has the cheater tag following her. It's like Russell Crowe wasn't there at all.

Kristen Stewart who was 20 and the married director twice her age -  she got humiliated and called every name under the sun and for all anyone knows it was one kiss. That still follows her around years later.

Sienna Miller - same crap.

So no, you must be feeling sorry for yourself because literally the opposite is true.

Really? It ended Schwarzenegger's political career. People have forgotten about Tiger Wood's infidelity??? I really, really don't think that is the case. Both men suffered hugely in terms of their career, their finances and their public image. I would say it is completely inaccurate that Kirsten Stewart's or Meg Ryan's infidelity is more notorious and lasting in the public image than that of Schwarzenegger or Woods.
In my experience, the vast majority of men with options do it at least once. Small sample size, i know.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It very positive for genetic variety, particularly if either or both parties can get away without it being noticed by the other partners. Cheating is a successful evolutionary development, and perfectly natural for those who engage in it. They are not bad people

My mother would disagree.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

simply differently-loyal, and should not be condemned for that.

Of course, I shouldn't blame my father for his actions in cheating on my mother and breaking the marriage! He was just showing his appreciation by sleeping with other people.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Embrace the variety of humanity, and allow them be true to their nature without criticism.

Appeal to nature fallacy, troglodyte.

Not necessarily , in some cases i dont even believe those cheating are doing anything wrong. My friends parents got divorced a few years ago after his dad met someone else and had an affair.

However 10 years before the affair when my mate was only 11 or 12 his mam became a born again christian after having his youngest sister ( i still think it was a bit of post partum depression at the start) , deeply into the church and her faith , his dad had no interest in god or any of that craic , but she basically told him that she was done with sex , they were only in there mid thirties. To be fair to his dad he hung in there for about 5 or 6 years in a sexless marriage , where she got more and more into the church, stopped drinking , socializing all that stuff because it was sinful. He eventually met someone in work , and to be honest i know literally no one who blames him for having the affair including my mate who is now far closer to his dad and soon to be step mum then he is to his own ma , who's still mad as a box of cats with the Jesus stuff.

I think you have to really look at why the person cheated , was it just about sex , love what was missing in the original relationship etc... I wouldn't be quick to judge at all.

Yes to my mind cheating is wrong. It just is. There may be mitigating circumstances but frankly that does not change the nature of the act. At the end of the day the person who has made a commitment to a faithful, monogamous relationship breaches those commitments by their own volition. Adultery isn't a compulsory act. It is to my mind, cowardly, low and deceitful behaviour. If there are issues to be dealt with in the marriage/long term committed relationship. They need to be dealt with first. I've seen too many relationships go bang over the years due to adultery. Relationships that could have ended amicably but didn't because he or she decided to poison the well. There are also issues of betrayal felt by the children of people who cheat. Unfortunately, they're never considered.

SD

Yea its too black and white to say if someone is good or bad if they cheat, or not.

Basically I have married friends who at the drop of a hat would take the opportunity of a one night stand, and have on many occasions.
Me;I just couldn't face my wife and kids if I ever done it, no matter how good the sex might have been.

So does that make them bad, and me good?... I am not so sure.

People are all made differently.

I've been away on weekends were someone has cheated on their wife, and I have been in their wife's company socialising say on the Sunday after - and not a flinch or note of anything going on by the guy that has just been riding someone else all weekend.
I remember thinking 'how the **** do you keep it so cool' .. again, not a fooking bother to him, yet I am convinced his does love his wife, lots!

All i can say is that if i was cheated on I would be absolutely gutted, and I am sure my whole perspective on this subject would be flipped on its head.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jesus, hysterical much. (And don't go dragging peoples mothers into it - seriously, what fúcking age are you!)

The fact remains if a married man or woman decides that THEY don't need to honour THEIR marriage vows - then why exactly should anyone else feel obliged?
In fact it's in equal parts judgemental, puritanical and condescending to say "Never mind your own thoughts on the matter, I'll decide what's acceptable for you"

But then again - you do kinda strike me as that type.

+1 the onus is fully on the person in the relationship / marriage ... don't believe in any of the home wrecker crap.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It just makes no sense to me - what do you think you're achieving by doing so?
I know there are any number of people who think just like you do, but I can't for the life of me understand WHY they think like that. No one I know who thinks like that has ever been able to explain it to me.

If the parties to a contract aren't honouring that contract - it really doesn't matter what outsiders do. And similarly if the parties to it are honouring it - it also doesn't matter what outsiders do.
In short, it just doesn't matter what outsiders do, only the couple themselves.

I won't be party to the dishonouring of their ''contract''.

Because I have some pride and decency.

I cheated while in a relationship of about 8 years. It was an awful relationship that I had fallen into - she was constantly sick for the 8 years which I used as an excuse to rationalise her treatment of me. She was completely demanding of me, would get angry and shout and threaten to hurt herself if I didn't do whatever she wanted. I lost contact with lots of my college friends in this time. If she came on a night out with me to meet them she'd put a dampener on the evening for everyone, or if she didn't come she'd be p1ssed off with me for leaving her. There were constant put downs in private and in front of my family and friends. The day my mother sat down with me when I was home for the weekend on my own and asked me if my girlfriend talked to me like that when we were on our own was one of the most upsetting moments in the whole relationship. I knew what she thought already and I knew that everyone else thought it too, but to actually hear it out loud from your mother was crushing.

Then one night, I was hammered drunk in a nightclub with a few friends including the girl I took to my debs 10 years earlier. I still remember my friend asking her if she wanted to share a taxi home - we were in Rathmines, I lived in Ranelagh, she lived in Drumcondra and he lived in Santry. She said it was handier to share with me (for people unfamiliar with Dublin - I was 10 minutes walk away and she was on the same road as the one to my friends house). So while it might be obvious to everyone else what was happening, I still wasn't exactly sure. It certainly sounded kind of like I had "pulled", but bear in mind that I had only ever done that one other time - about 9 years ago. I hadn't as much as kissed another girl since I was a teenager and in my entire time with that girlfriend I had never been in a situation that was in any way like this. At that stage the only "romantic" attention I was used (attention from someone who was supposed to love me) were put downs, moaning and being reminded of all that was wrong with me. And then suddenly someone was being really nice to me - paying me loads of compliments. I'm welling up here a little thinking of how nice that felt, but I'd basically been listening to the opposite for years. Even though I thought I knew it wasn't true, it had sunk in. And anyone that thinks that someone withholding sex is no excuse - try being in that situation for a few years. You try to initiate it and are shot down. You try to chat about it and she tells you how selfish you're being for bringing up something you know she's self conscious about. You try nice gestures, dates, doing all the housework, everything you've read that might work - and she's simply never going to initiate it regardless of what you do. So you're rationed to depressing sex once every month or two. And then suddenly one day, someone actually wants you and finds you attractive. In truth at that stage I was a shell of the man I was before I started going out with that girl. I sheepishly went through with it and kind of enjoyed it. I'd say it wasn't the most thrilling night for my debs date of 2003, but it was an important night for me.

I think I'd somehow have gotten myself together and gotten out of that relationship eventually, but that night was probably the start of it. It wasn't just that someone else might find me attractive, it was more that I was reminded of what it was to be treated nicely. I had gotten so used to a relationship being all about the other person I had given up fighting for things I wanted. So it still took me over a year to break up with my girlfriend, but I suppose it was a bit of a gradual process looking back. We had two conversations where I basically demanded that she treat me better - that we'd do the things I wanted to do sometimes, watch what I wanted to watch on TV sometimes and that she'd help with the housework and basically stop shouting at me all the time. Neither conversation changed anything, so I just started going off and doing what I wanted more and more and to hell with the consequences. Eventually, I packed up my stuff and sat her down to tell her we were finished. It was the strangest feeling in the world after - melancholy (and I still can't quite put my finger on what I was sad about), relief, curiosity about what was going to happen now and as tiring as it was I felt energised. Not as much pity for the hurt I'd inflicted on another person as I'd expected.

So that's my little story. Do I feel guilty about the cheating? Of course I do! God knows I wish I was stronger and I had broken up with her long before that. But I wasn't and while I still feel guilty I'm very accepting of what I did. And thankful I did it. Most of my life had been put on hold for the 9 years I was with that girl. I feel a bit like I'm playing catch-up in life now, but I think I will catch up. And as daunting as it is trying get to where others are in life who might have left college with me, I'm enjoying the process. And over two years later I still have the odd person tell me how great it is to have me back. And as awful a moment as it was when my mother sat me down the couple of years before, I kind of had the opposite moment a couple of months after. I was at my niece's Christening and she gave me a big hug and said I looked happier than I had in years. And I don't think I had seen my mum look as happy in years either. Of course she was at her first grandchild's christening, so I can't take all the credit!

So to go back to the original question; are cheaters bad people? Grow up, it's not that black and white! It's a whole ****ing rainbow, including the colours that you can't even see!

blue note wrote: »

I cheated while in a relationship of about 8 years. It was an awful relationship that I had fallen into - she was constantly sick for the 8 years which I used as an excuse to rationalise her treatment of me. She was completely demanding of me, would get angry and shout and threaten to hurt herself if I didn't do whatever she wanted. I lost contact with lots of my college friends in this time. If she came on a night out with me to meet them she'd put a dampener on the evening for everyone, or if she didn't come she'd be p1ssed off with me for leaving her. There were constant put downs in private and in front of my family and friends. The day my mother sat down with me when I was home for the weekend on my own and asked me if my girlfriend talked to me like that when we were on our own was one of the most upsetting moments in the whole relationship. I knew what she thought already and I knew that everyone else thought it too, but to actually hear it out loud from your mother was crushing.

Then one night, I was hammered drunk in a nightclub with a few friends including the girl I took to my debs 10 years earlier. I still remember my friend asking her if she wanted to share a taxi home - we were in Rathmines, I lived in Ranelagh, she lived in Drumcondra and he lived in Santry. She said it was handier to share with me (for people unfamiliar with Dublin - I was 10 minutes walk away and she was on the same road as the one to my friends house). So while it might be obvious to everyone else what was happening, I still wasn't exactly sure. It certainly sounded kind of like I had "pulled", but bear in mind that I had only ever done that one other time - about 9 years ago. I hadn't as much as kissed another girl since I was a teenager and in my entire time with that girlfriend I had never been in a situation that was in any way like this. At that stage the only "romantic" attention I was used (attention from someone who was supposed to love me) were put downs, moaning and being reminded of all that was wrong with me. And then suddenly someone was being really nice to me - paying me loads of compliments. I'm welling up here a little thinking of how nice that felt, but I'd basically been listening to the opposite for years. Even though I thought I knew it wasn't true, it had sunk in. And anyone that thinks that someone withholding sex is no excuse - try being in that situation for a few years. You try to initiate it and are shot down. You try to chat about it and she tells you how selfish you're being for bringing up something you know she's self conscious about. You try nice gestures, dates, doing all the housework, everything you've read that might work - and she's simply never going to initiate it regardless of what you do. So you're rationed to depressing sex once every month or two. And then suddenly one day, someone actually wants you and finds you attractive. In truth at that stage I was a shell of the man I was before I started going out with that girl. I sheepishly went through with it and kind of enjoyed it. I'd say it wasn't the most thrilling night for my debs date of 2003, but it was an important night for me.

I think I'd somehow have gotten myself together and gotten out of that relationship eventually, but that night was probably the start of it. It wasn't just that someone else might find me attractive, it was more that I was reminded of what it was to be treated nicely. I had gotten so used to a relationship being all about the other person I had given up fighting for things I wanted. So it still took me over a year to break up with my girlfriend, but I suppose it was a bit of a gradual process looking back. We had two conversations where I basically demanded that she treat me better - that we'd do the things I wanted to do sometimes, watch what I wanted to watch on TV sometimes and that she'd help with the housework and basically stop shouting at me all the time. Neither conversation changed anything, so I just started going off and doing what I wanted more and more and to hell with the consequences. Eventually, I packed up my stuff and sat her down to tell her we were finished. It was the strangest feeling in the world after - melancholy (and I still can't quite put my finger on what I was sad about), relief, curiosity about what was going to happen now and as tiring as it was I felt energised. Not as much pity for the hurt I'd inflicted on another person as I'd expected.

So that's my little story. Do I feel guilty about the cheating? Of course I do! God knows I wish I was stronger and I had broken up with her long before that. But I wasn't and while I still feel guilty I'm very accepting of what I did. And thankful I did it. Most of my life had been put on hold for the 9 years I was with that girl. I feel a bit like I'm playing catch-up in life now, but I think I will catch up. And as daunting as it is trying get to where others are in life who might have left college with me, I'm enjoying the process. And over two years later I still have the odd person tell me how great it is to have me back. And as awful a moment as it was when my mother sat me down the couple of years before, I kind of had the opposite moment a couple of months after. I was at my niece's Christening and she gave me a big hug and said I looked happier than I had in years. And I don't think I had seen my mum look as happy in years either. Of course she was at her first grandchild's christening, so I can't take all the credit!

So to go back to the original question; are cheaters bad people? Grow up, it's not that black and white! It's a whole ****ing rainbow, including the colours that you can't even see!

The main problem here is that you didn't dump her asap. It's really not her fault you cheated. And considering you twigged that your friend was wanting a one night stand before you even got into the car, you had plenty of time to walk away from it. It's not like it was a heat of the moment thing.