Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

tomwaterford

professore wrote: »

Equating is saying two things are equal. I didn't say that. I said it is as serious as domestic violence,

:pac:

professore

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner

Because he likes having sex with attractive women - or even unattractive women that aren't his wife.

Colser wrote: »

and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

Yes. See other answer.

Colser

Colser wrote: »

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

Obviously women are sneakier and more underhand, right?

Estrellita

HensVassal wrote: »

I don't know why you're getting so defensive about a discussion. Seems there are some underlying insecurities.

Nah, I'm just not a cheating scumbag. Some people have standards.

There are people on here, such as yourself, who refuse to consider that a cheater is anything other than a piece of refuse

That would be because I'm in a relationship and I don't sleep around. I think better of myself to stoop to that level. So yeah, refuse is on par with my thinking.

What I notice is the typical reaction to that openmindedness is to froth at the mouth and accuse all of those people of asserting that cheating, any cheating is just fine. Nothing to get worke3d up about.

It's a piss-poor tactic at stifling a debate.

There you go using that frothing at the mouth crap again. The p.iss poor reference was mine too. Try coming up with some original material.

professore

HensVassal wrote: »

I don't use one. I like to consider every detail before I rush to judgement.

You said earlier you don't judge at all. Or at least I think that was you. And I don't rush to judgement. I've thought a lot about this.

HensVassal

Colser wrote: »

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

That's a non-sequitur, i.e. there are no brothels for women, hence women can't be up for hanky-panky on a hen night.

Men and women are different. If a man wants no strings sex he often has to pay for it. IF a woman want it she never has to pay for it. In fact she can walk into any bar or club pick a guy she wants as her mate for the night and have him pay for the evening.

tomwaterford

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

Yes....they do

IME.....women are every bit as likely to cheat as men

I've seen it dozens of times.....the only slight difference in being that a single woman would be slightly less likely to cheat with married man than vice versa.....

mainly due to them spotting a ring etc,even at that....most wans I know wouldnt bother them

professore

Walter H Price wrote: »

I don't see your point , why would i be outraged that she got drunk and shifted someone at an office party its hardly the end of the world , i think the relationship is more about the love then sex , sex is an intrisic part as in id have 0 interest in a relationship with out it but i don't think its more important then the love. I'm not saying i wouldn't be annoyed but i wouldn't view her as a bad person for doing it , and i certainly wouldn't be throwing our relationship on the scrap heap for a drunken shift.

But that's my point for you you draw the line at look don't touch , others draw the line somewhere else, anything from don't even look, to, does oral sex really count as cheating ? because of that alone it cannot be black and white its a grey scale.

My mates GF felt totally betrayed that he went to a strip club and felt he cheated, they very nearly broke up over it , we all thought she was a bit touched and a bit a controlling B!tch, but at that one of the other lads girlfriend's has literally no issue with the fact that on more then one occasion hes gotten a prostitute while we've been a way her view is if he's paying for it it doesn't count , and that's a bit of a running joke in the group ... the whole thing is a grey area.

What IS love in your opinion? Caring and supporting one person in a happy and above all RESPECTFUL relationship, that's love to me. After the butterflies disappear, it's RESPECT that's really what love is all about. And snogging or shagging randomers is not respecting your partner. And shagging them regularly.

sbsquarepants

Colser wrote: »

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

They simply aren't necessary. Women can always get it for free - or even get paid for it!

professore

tomwaterford wrote: »

Yes....they do

IME.....women are every bit as likely to cheat as men

I've seen it dozens of times.....the only slight difference in being that a single woman would be slightly less likely to cheat with married man than vice versa.....

mainly due to them spotting a ring etc,even at that....most wans I know wouldnt bother them

I have to agree with you there tomwaterford.

La.de.da

Yes.
I personally think it's one of the most degrading things a person can do to someone they are supposed to love.

There are no excuses.

HensVassal

Colser wrote: »

Ridiculous comparison ...try harder ðŸ˜

But it's not a ridculous comparison. Another poster said that pornography or anything in your head is not cheating. Quite obviously because he engages in that activity himself. Another poster pointed out that his friend's g/f accused him of cheating because he went to a strip club. Seems to me the entrenched view on here is that cheating is cut and dried when you define it and is ridiculous when anyone else questions your view or they are apologists.
What about flirting. Bombshell of a girl showers you with attention. Do you play along to give your ego a boost or do you run a mile? Worse still do you risk jumping to conclusions by telling her to stop because you're married, only for her to say "I was being friendly. You only think I'm interested in a guy like you?"

professore

HensVassal wrote: »

But it's not a ridculous comparison. Another poster said that pornography or anything in your head is not cheating. Quite obviously because he engages in that activity himself. Another poster pointed out that his friend's g/f accused him of cheating because he went to a strip club. Seems to me the entrenched view on here is that cheating is cut and dried when you define it and is ridiculous when anyone else questions your view or they are apologists.
What about flirting. Bombshell of a girl showers you with attention. Do you play along to give your ego a boost or do you run a mile? Worse still do you risk jumping to conclusions by telling her to stop because you're married, only for her to say "I was being friendly. You only think I'm interested in a guy like you?"

Flirting is disrespectful to your partner if you are in a relationship. The same person wouldn't flirt with their partner in a fit. After all flirting is a prelude to sex. It's advertising your availability. I wouldn't call it cheating, but it's a fine line.

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

Yes that's been my experience too. It's all about "me, me, me" ... men with great supportive wives. Women with decent kind men who are great with the kids and treat them like queens. Never is it the wife of the useless alcoholic man who beats her, or the horrible demeaning belittling woman's husband who cheats.

It always seems to be the person who wants to be in control, to be the centre of attention, and thinks they are a wonderful person, while most people secretly despise them but are too polite to say it, and the few that do are brushed off as "assholes" or "jealous".

There are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

Did you ever see the movie Ryan's Daughter?

It was about a younger woman married to an older man but she fell for a British officer.
I know it's a movie but I can imagine the scenario would not be uncommon. Do you think she wanted to be in controi?

professore

HensVassal wrote: »

Did you ever see the movie Ryan's Daughter?

It was about a younger woman married to an older man but she fell for a British officer.
I know it's a movie but I can imagine the scenario would not be uncommon. Do you think she wanted to be in controi?

Yes for sure. Didn't see the film, but I would guess the older man was probably like a daddy to her.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

HensVassal

Estrellita wrote: »

Nah, I'm just not a cheating scumbag. Some people have standards.


That would be because I'm in a relationship and I don't sleep around. I think better of myself to stoop to that level. So yeah, refuse is on par with my thinking.



There you go using that frothing at the mouth crap again. The p.iss poor reference was mine too. Try coming up with some original material.

Seems your standards aren't very high when you blithely see the world in black and white.

XsApollo

A lot people saying it's a black and white and that the person cheating should leave or it's wrong that they cheat and that's that.
Sure if you are in a sexual loving respectful relationship with a partner and you are engaging with others then yea it's wrong.
But It's never that black and white.

Say your married 15 years, couple of young kids, house , mortgage the usual trappings.
And your partner decides they don't want to have sex anymore, or start ignoring you sexually and intimacy dissappears.
What then?

Should the person that hasn't decided this leave everything they have behind.
Leave their family , home , and life behind because 1 partner decides sex is off the table.

When the fact is it should be the other way around, but that rarely happens.

So you get the situation where the person on the receiving end of this situation ends up miserable.
And some people's thinking is they should leave Because if they cheat they are wrong and that's that.


It's just as bad as physical verbal and mental abuse or any form of abuse and is just as debilitating.

But oh no you shouldn't go anywhere else because cheating is wrong disrespectful and that's that.

Sure if both parties knew this before marriage then fair enough, they knew what they were signing up for.
But how many relationships would get off the ground if one partner said at the start there is going to be no sex or love.
My guess is not many, and the person who changes the rules a few years down the line is the person in the wrong.
But some people's opinions on here are that the person who didn't change the rules should leave their family , home , and life because it's black and white they are wrong.

I supppse a partner on the end of a few slaps should be the one made leave their kids home and life also?

Or a partner who gets verbally abused everyday should be the one that has to leave because they are wrong?

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

You said earlier you don't judge at all. Or at least I think that was you. And I don't rush to judgement. I've thought a lot about this.

I'm not saying cheating is ok. I wish people would try to expand their horizon beyond the binary
"Cheaters are all scumbags and anyone who thinks differently is also a scumbag. End of!"

I'll admit that being cheated on is an awful thing to experience and the majority of times the cheater is guilty of selfish, deceitful behaviour.

But there is room here to contemplate that the person who is unfaithful is not necessarily the lowlife that so many are insisting. And that after all was the original question.

If a woman, neglected for so long or taken for granted, briefly meets some Lothario on holiday who makes her feel young and beautiful again if just for a short while then I don't see how you could possibly condemn her as being a scumbag. If she returns then to her dullard of a husband who she loves and would never leave but smiles at her little dalliance then I could never look down my nose at her.

Likewise a man going through a midlife crisis yields to the temptation of the attention paid him by another woman. He knows he will never leave his wife, in fact he will never even engage in an affair but the tryst.....it may just have been a forbidden kiss but it awakens something in him and he appreciates his wife even more and his libido comes raging back because he knows he's still "got it".

Not all indiscretions are the kind of sleazy, spiteful, acts of vile emotional cowardice and betrayal that so many of the mob on here portray them to be.

If a person is married or partnered to someone they love but that person is incapacitated, bed-ridden, terminal. If they wanted to take care of their sick loved one until the end which could come at any time and the patient gave permission for the healthy partner to get back in the game? But what if the healthy spouse was happy to have some love and affection outside of his or her current predicament but never wanted to admit this to his or her sick spouse because even though he/she gave permission out of a sense of selfless sacrifice he/she would probably be saddened by it? So he/she plays a delicate game of engaging in a few morsels of tenderness with someone while all the time insisting to his/her ailing spouse that he/she would rather not.

Is that so dreadful?
Could you honestly call any of these people lowlifes? Scumbags?

To all the black and white brigade.....are you going to say the person in the latter scenario should just split up, shove the spouse in a hospice and go tramping around? No, of course you will say "damn them! they should abstain, be true and pure!" and all that bollocks that I'm expecting you to spew.

I don't believe the question of good or bad comes in to it. Personally I detest cheating but I'm aware enough to understand the many shades of grey which exist between two people.
Sometimes a drunken kiss can occur when on a rare night out away from the partner and kids or maybe sex says goodbye so him or her seeks it elsewhere. Of course the right thing to do would be to communicate how you feel but we flawed and fragile humans don't always get it right.

There may be a night you lie awake beside your partner of ten years and wonder "what if" or long to feel needed and desireable again. A chance encounter with an old flame fans the possibility to feel alive again. Who knows. I certainly don't.

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

Yes for sure. Didn't see the film, but I would guess the older man was probably like a daddy to her.

You're not wrong there. Great movie and very sad.

HensVassal

tomwaterford wrote: »

Yes....they do

IME.....women are every bit as likely to cheat as men

I've seen it dozens of times.....the only slight difference in being that a single woman would be slightly less likely to cheat with married man than vice versa.....

mainly due to them spotting a ring etc,even at that....most wans I know wouldnt bother them

And therein lies the rub. I mentioned nature and instincts earlier and some poster brought up ducks raping each other.
Some women, when ovulating, are irrationally blind with sexual fire.

Widdershins

HensVassal wrote: »

Did you ever see the movie Ryan's Daughter?

It was about a younger woman married to an older man but she fell for a British officer.
I know it's a movie but I can imagine the scenario would not be uncommon. Do you think she wanted to be in controi?

Were you not complaining about cliches from movies this evening?

Estrellita

HensVassal wrote: »

Seems your standards aren't very high when you blithely see the world in black and white.

In replacement of having an actual point to support your 'debate', I'm now getting nonsensical tripe. I'm wrapping this up, because it's tiresome to reply to you at this stage.

You carry on with your excuses if it helps you sleep at night.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Widdershins

HensVassal wrote: »

I'm not saying cheating is ok. I wish people would try to expand their horizon beyond the binary
"Cheaters are all scumbags and anyone who thinks differently is also a scumbag. End of!"

I'll admit that being cheated on is an awful thing to experience and the majority of times the cheater is guilty of selfish, deceitful behaviour.

But there is room here to contemplate that the person who is unfaithful is not necessarily the lowlife that so many are insisting. And that after all was the original question.

If a woman, neglected for so long or taken for granted, briefly meets some Lothario on holiday who makes her feel young and beautiful again if just for a short while then I don't see how you could possibly condemn her as being a scumbag. If she returns then to her dullard of a husband who she loves and would never leave but smiles at her little dalliance then I could never look down my nose at her.

Likewise a man going through a midlife crisis yields to the temptation of the attention paid him by another woman. He knows he will never leave his wife, in fact he will never even engage in an affair but the tryst.....it may just have been a forbidden kiss but it awakens something in him and he appreciates his wife even more and his libido comes raging back because he knows he's still "got it".

Not all indiscretions are the kind of sleazy, spiteful, acts of vile emotional cowardice and betrayal that so many of the mob on here portray them to be.

If a person is married or partnered to someone they love but that person is incapacitated, bed-ridden, terminal. If they wanted to take care of their sick loved one until the end which could come at any time and the patient gave permission for the healthy partner to get back in the game? But what if the healthy spouse was happy to have some love and affection outside of his or her current predicament but never wanted to admit this to his or her sick spouse because even though he/she gave permission out of a sense of selfless sacrifice he/she would probably be saddened by it? So he/she plays a delicate game of engaging in a few morsels of tenderness with someone while all the time insisting to his/her ailing spouse that he/she would rather not.

Is that so dreadful?
Could you honestly call any of these people lowlifes? Scumbags?

To all the black and white brigade.....are you going to say the person in the latter scenario should just split up, shove the spouse in a hospice and go tramping around? No, of course you will stay "damn them! they should abstain, be true and pure!" and all that bollocks that I'm expecting you to spew.

I agree with this but for me personally the last thing I'd want to do is shag someone else if my oh was terminally ill. Having said that it's a known phenomenon that people sometimes become more lusty when there is something like that on the horizon, or in dangerous times or just very sad and difficult times. But I wouldn't feel like it. And I find the idea of lying about it to spare their feelings kind of depressing. I suspect they would instinctively know.

Also, it's not always the case that the cheater is no longer young and beautiful and having no sex because of unattractiveness in the other partner's eyes.

The One Doctor

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It very positive for genetic variety, particularly if either or both parties can get away without it being noticed by the other partners. Cheating is a successful evolutionary development, and perfectly natural for those who engage in it. They are not bad people, simply differently-loyal, and should not be condemned for that. Embrace the variety of humanity, and allow them be true to their nature without criticism.

Nah.

laserlad2010

So where do we go from here?

Accepted, cheating by and large is inexcusable, and the path is pretty clear for the cheated on...

And the cheater? Full 100% remorse, wish it never happened... what do they do?

They're a good friend/brother/sister, they do good things, how do we classify them?

MadDog76

HensVassal wrote: »

Uhm......you can contract an STD during one sexual encounter and then pass it on in another encounter. You don't have to fucking cheat to contract or pass on an STD. You could be single and shagged somebody and contracted chlamydia, totally unbeknownst to you. You could then start dating someone a week later and pass it on.

It's not rocket science.

Uhm ......... you have to cheat in order to contract an STD from outside of the relationship ......... you're now saying that one of the partners already has an STD when entering the relationship which is not at all what you earlier implied ......... thank God its not rocket science because, if it was, you'd fail miserably!

sashafierce

sashafierce wrote: »

All these story's much as they warm the heart and all that are the minority in the cheating world. Fabio on his big white stallion comes into your life and makes you feel alive again while your husband pays you no attention. A rare occurance no doubt.

Husband goes away with mates, gets pissed and cheats. Most likely scenario.

What would break my heart even more would be the idea of some woman knowing she has had my husband behind my back. Laughing at me and pitying me for being so foolish.

She might not have a clue the man she is with is married.