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Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

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    #152
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Why should you work on a relationship if the spark IS gone and you want nothing more to do with that person?

    You trot out these cliches that you hear in movies or soap operas. Life is short. You want to waste more of your years flogging a dead horse.

    I was in a relationship for 6 years. Things started to go bad within the first 6 months. She cheated but I forgave her. But then the arguments became very bitter and she had a sadistic streak in her. She broke things that she knew I was fond of just to see me upset. She tried to kill one of my tropical tree frogs, the list of nastiness goes on. When we were good together it was good but I wish I had left earlier than 6 years. Trying to work on that powderkeg of a relationship was a waste of my time.

    I agree with you here - but why cheat? Just leave?


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    #153
    Estrellita
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Estrellita


    HensVassal wrote: »

    "Codswallop"? "Heard it all now"?

    Do you think you have a monopoly on the mechanics of human relationships?


    Monopoly on relationships my hole. Its a very simple rule. You are in a relationship or marriage, you don't cheat. How can you claim to love someone if you are willing to break their heart and call it a fcuking mistake? B.ollox, utter b.ollox.


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    #154
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Look, there's a cadre of people on this thread who only see things in black and white. Why I don't know. Maybe it's some kind of defence mechanism. Like if they are dogmatic and intransigent about an issue then they will somehow be shielded from possibly experiencing the effects of that issue. But people who see things in black and white are generally not mentally equipped to handle the complexities of the real world.

    Does a gay rights opponent do so because he/she truly understands the issues or because he/she is frightenend to explore a deeper level of humanity?

    Nobody on here is promoting cheating. Nobody is saying it's no big deal as if it was as trivial as a husband watching TV and expressing admiration for Kim Kardashian's rear-end or a wife fawning over Matt Damon or Denzel Washington. But there are times when it happens and it is explicable, or understandable, even excusable.

    Using your own circumstances to refuse to acknowledge other peoples' circumstances is just an exercise in close-mindedness, short-sightedness, intolerance, refusal to consider someone's situation and just plain obtuseness.


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    #155
    Colser
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭Colser


    HensVassal wrote:
    Nobody on here is promoting cheating. Nobody is saying it's no big deal as if it was as trivial as a husband watching TV and expressing admiration for Kim Kardashian's rear-end or a wife fawning over Matt Damon or Denzel Washington. But there are times when it happens and it is explicable, or understandable, even excusable.

    What are the times that you consider it excusable?


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    #156
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    professore wrote: »
    I agree with you here - but why cheat? Just leave?

    Once again you just think that ending a relationship is just a simple decision that anyone case easily make like deciding when to knock off from work or to change the station when a song you don't like comes on. These are easy decisions to make. Walking out of a relationship is not.


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    #157
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Walter H Price wrote: »
    Lets be honest its not a black and white situation

    In my opinion it's a completely black and white situation.

    If you're in a loveless/sexless marriage, talk to your partner, try to fix it, if you can't then leave.

    If you can't go to a party and get drunk without falling into someone else's arms/pants then don't get drunk.

    If you meet someone else and can't help but fall in love (BS too IMO), leave your current partner before embarking on your new relationship.

    I have yet to hear any excuse for cheating that I think is even remotely valid. It's simply par for the course these days. Cheating is seen as a little indiscretion not worthy of a big fuss. From other threads here, most people don't even count it as cheating unless there is sex. You can shift the face off people all night long but as long as you keep your drawers on its all good. Many have even said that a one night stand doesn't count as cheating, only an ongoing affair.


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    #158
    westcoast66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭westcoast66


    I got a happy ending once. Is that cheating?


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    #159
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Look, there's a cadre of people on this thread who only see things in black and white. Why I don't know. Maybe it's some kind of defence mechanism. Like if they are dogmatic and intransigent about an issue then they will somehow be shielded from possibly experiencing the effects of that issue. But people who see things in black and white are generally not mentally equipped to handle the complexities of the real world.

    Does a gay rights opponent do so because he/she truly understands the issues or because he/she is frightenend to explore a deeper level of humanity?

    Nobody on here is promoting cheating. Nobody is saying it's no big deal as if it was as trivial as a husband watching TV and expressing admiration for Kim Kardashian's rear-end or a wife fawning over Matt Damon or Denzel Washington. But there are times when it happens and it is explicable, or understandable, even excusable.

    Using your own circumstances to refuse to acknowledge other peoples' circumstances is just an exercise in close-mindedness, short-sightedness, intolerance, refusal to consider someone's situation and just plain obtuseness.

    Incorrect for me at least. There are 50 shades of grey in most things, and I can see this clearly. This isn't one of them for me though. I can't think of a situation where cheating is ever a better option - unless your partner is fully agreeable, and not "I've no option but to agree" agreeable, but actively out scoring themselves too, in which case it isn't cheating.


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    #160
    sashafierce
    Registered Users Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    This post has been deleted.


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    #161
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Once again you just think that ending a relationship is just a simple decision that anyone case easily make like deciding when to knock off from work or to change the station when a song you don't like comes on. These are easy decisions to make. Walking out of a relationship is not.

    I've been married 20 years with kids and all the trappings so I know what's involved with ending a relationship. Still doesn't make it right. Ultimately if you cheat you will end up worse off in every way. There's no getting around it.


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    #162
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    westcoast66 wrote: »
    I got a happy ending once. Is that cheating?

    Yeah.


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    #163
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    In my opinion it's a completely black and white situation.

    If you're in a loveless/sexless marriage, talk to your partner, try to fix it, if you can't then leave.

    If you can't go to a party and get drunk without falling into someone else's arms/pants then don't get drunk.

    If you meet someone else and can't help but fall in love (BS too IMO), leave your current partner before embarking on your new relationship.

    I have yet to hear any excuse for cheating that I think is even remotely valid. It's simply par for the course these days. Cheating is seen as a little indiscretion not worthy of a big fuss. From other threads here, most people don't even count it as cheating unless there is sex. You can shift the face off people all night long but as long as you keep your drawers on its all good. Many have even said that a one night stand doesn't count as cheating, only an ongoing affair.

    My view is there is worse things in a relationship then cheating , to be honest if my OH told me out straight she never wanted kids or never wanted sex again , that'd be me done on the spot , if she found religion or something id struggle to deal with that, to be honest ... if she told me she shifted someone on the office christmas night out id be a bit p!ssed off for a few days but id get past it , if she slept with someone else id want to know why but again i think i could get past it, its only sex at the end of the day ... the other thing is where do you draw the line, one of the lads girlfriends accused him of cheating because we went to a strip club on a football weekend a few months back , he didn't even get a private dance , is watching porn cheating , what about having a dirty dream about someone else , where do you draw the line if its so black and white ???


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    #164
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Colser wrote: »
    What are the times that you consider it excusable?

    I could think of some situations where I wouldn't be so quick to condemn the cheater like some of the pitch-forkers on here.

    I certainly wouldn't hold it against a girl forced into an arranged marriage with some pig twice her age, when she was secretly in love with a childhood sweetheart.


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    #165
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yes that's been my experience too. It's all about "me, me, me" ... men with great supportive wives. Women with decent kind men who are great with the kids and treat them like queens. Never is it the wife of the useless alcoholic man who beats her, or the horrible demeaning belittling woman's husband who cheats.

    It always seems to be the person who wants to be in control, to be the centre of attention, and thinks they are a wonderful person, while most people secretly despise them but are too polite to say it, and the few that do are brushed off as "assholes" or "jealous".

    There are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.


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    #166
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Walter H Price wrote: »
    My view is there is worse things in a relationship then cheating , to be honest if my OH told me out straight she never wanted kids or never wanted sex again , that'd be me done on the spot , if she found religion or something id struggle to deal with that, to be honest ... if she told me she shifted someone on the office christmas night out id be a bit p!ssed off for a few days but id get past it , if she slept with someone else id want to know why but again i think i could get past it, its only sex at the end of the day ...

    What's the point of a relationship in that case? You're just friends with benefits?
    Walter H Price wrote: »
    the other thing is where do you draw the line, one of the lads girlfriends accused him of cheating because we went to a strip club on a football weekend a few months back , he didn't even get a private dance , is watching porn cheating , what about having a dirty dream about someone else , where do you draw the line if its so black and white ???

    To me, as a general rule, what goes on inside your head isn't cheating, as you have little control over that sometimes. also porn isn't cheating, as porn is really just a sex aid to masturbation, which isn't cheating. The strip club thing sounds like real control issues. Would she have had a problem going to one of these male stripper things on a hen night?

    Strip club: not cheating
    Watching porn: not cheating
    Dirty dream: please ....
    Watching 50 shades or reading "romantic" novel: not cheating
    Fantasising about someone else while having sex: not cheating

    You can look but you can't touch ...

    YMMV

    I want my partner to embrace their sexuality. Not "I would never do that sort of thing, I'm far too good a person" type of thing, but "sure I fancy XYZ, but won't put myself in a vulnerable position" type of thing.


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    #167
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    professore wrote: »
    What's the point of a relationship in that case? You're just friends with benefits?



    To me, as a general rule, what goes on inside your head isn't cheating, as you have little control over that sometimes. also porn isn't cheating, as porn is really just a sex aid to masturbation, which isn't cheating. The strip club thing sounds like real control issues. Would she have had a problem going to one of these male stripper things on a hen night?

    Strip club: not cheating
    Watching porn: not cheating
    Dirty dream: please ....
    Watching 50 shades or reading "romantic" novel: not cheating
    Fantasising about someone else while having sex: not cheating

    You can look but you can't touch ...

    YMMV

    I don't see your point , why would i be outraged that she got drunk and shifted someone at an office party its hardly the end of the world , i think the relationship is more about the love then sex , sex is an intrisic part as in id have 0 interest in a relationship with out it but i don't think its more important then the love. I'm not saying i wouldn't be annoyed but i wouldn't view her as a bad person for doing it , and i certainly wouldn't be throwing our relationship on the scrap heap for a drunken shift.

    But that's my point for you you draw the line at look don't touch , others draw the line somewhere else, anything from don't even look, to, does oral sex really count as cheating ? because of that alone it cannot be black and white its a grey scale.

    My mates GF felt totally betrayed that he went to a strip club and felt he cheated, they very nearly broke up over it , we all thought she was a bit touched and a bit a controlling B!tch, but at that one of the other lads girlfriend's has literally no issue with the fact that on more then one occasion hes gotten a prostitute while we've been a way her view is if he's paying for it it doesn't count , and that's a bit of a running joke in the group ... the whole thing is a grey area.


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    #168
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    professore wrote: »
    Equating is saying two things are equal. I didn't say that. I said it is as serious as domestic violence, it's psychological violence. It's a power thing - it's saying that your own happiness is more important than your partner's misery. There have been many suicides over this, some known personally to me.

    Surely this is only relevant if the partner finds out?

    It can't be psychological violence if they never know. It can't make them miserable if they never know.

    So if a married guy goes on a business trip and has a one night stand with a woman he met at a bar then just gets on with his life what damage has he actually done?

    Obviously there is a moral issue with lying, or lying by omission, but there's no actual harm done if nobody finds out.

    "How was the business trip?" "It was OK, just a bit boring." End of story.

    You could argue that taking a risk, that could potentially lead to them finding out, that could then lead to misery and harm is not a good thing to be doing in a relationship, and I would agree, but there is only harm done if someone finds out.

    It's the same as lying really. You might tell your best friend you are too sick to go to their birthday party when in reality you just can't be bothered. It's a lie but there is no harm done until they find out.

    So if a woman goes away for the weekend with friends, sleeps with some guy, takes precautions against disease and pregnancy etc and she is 100% sure that nobody will ever find out, does that really make her a bad person?

    It might not be good or responsible behaviour but I cannot agree that it is necessarily harmful.

    If a tree falls in a forest...


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    #169
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    professore wrote: »
    I've been married 20 years with kids and all the trappings so I know what's involved with ending a relationship. Still doesn't make it right. Ultimately if you cheat you will end up worse off in every way. There's no getting around it.

    There you go using your own anecdotal experience and circumstances as a yardstick by which all others' should be measured.


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    #170
    Colser
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭Colser


    orubiru wrote:
    So if a married guy goes on a business trip and has a one night stand with a woman he met at a bar then just gets on with his life what damage has he actually done?


    Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?


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    #171
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Estrellita wrote: »
    Monopoly on relationships my hole. Its a very simple rule. You are in a relationship or marriage, you don't cheat. How can you claim to love someone if you are willing to break their heart and call it a fcuking mistake? B.ollox, utter b.ollox.

    I don't know why you're getting so defensive about a discussion. Seems there are some underlying insecurities. There are people on here, such as yourself, who refuse to consider that a cheater is anything other than a piece of refuse and there are other, more openminded people who are willing to consider things other than your entrenched and rigid dogma. What I notice is the typical reaction to that openmindedness is to froth at the mouth and accuse all of those people of asserting that cheating, any cheating is just fine. Nothing to get worke3d up about.

    It's like people who advocate extreme forms of punishment for minor offenses and when more enlightened commonsense reasoning is suggested they scream "Oh, so you just want to give criminals a hug."

    It's a piss-poor tactic at stifling a debate.


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    #172
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Colser wrote: »
    Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

    They certainly do. In my early chasing days I always made a beeline for any foreign hen do's in town - it was like shooting fish in a barrel! I couldn't tell you what their relationship status was for sure, but they couldn't have all been single.

    In fact now that I think it of it, one of them was actually the bride to be!


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    #173
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Colser wrote: »
    Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

    Honestly, I don't know the answer to either of those points.

    I was just saying that one of the main objections seems to be that the cheating causes harm and I feel like that is only relevant in instances when the cheater gets caught.


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    #174
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    HensVassal wrote: »
    There you go using your own anecdotal experience and circumstances as a yardstick by which all others' should be measured.

    I'll humour you for a minute and say that's what I'm using for a yardstick. What yardstick do you use?


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    #175
    Colser
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭Colser


    sbsquarepants wrote:
    They certainly do. In my early chasing days I always made a beeline for any foreign hen do's in town - it was like shooting fish in a barrel! I couldn't tell you what their relationship status was for sure, but they couldn't have all been single.


    So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?


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    #176
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Colser wrote: »
    Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

    Why, if a man was in a relationship that he's happy with, would he watch a pornographic movie?


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    #177
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Colser wrote: »
    Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

    Yes. They are just as bad as men. Some women are faithful, some men are, but there are lots that aren't. Think about it - who are all these bad men having sex with?

    I was at a Christmas party several years back and was propositioned by a woman married with kids for a night of sex since she had booked a hotel room for the night and the husband was at home minding the kids. She wasn't drunk either. Another time went away on a business trip (I was single but in a relationship at the time). Same story. And I'm no Leonardo Di Caprio. So don't give me the line that women don't do this. They do.


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    #178
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Why should you work on a relationship if the spark IS gone and you want nothing more to do with that person?

    You trot out these cliches that you hear in movies or soap operas. Life is short. You want to waste more of your years flogging a dead horse.

    I was in a relationship for 6 years. Things started to go bad within the first 6 months. She cheated but I forgave her. But then the arguments became very bitter and she had a sadistic streak in her. She broke things that she knew I was fond of just to see me upset. She tried to kill one of my tropical tree frogs, the list of nastiness goes on. When we were good together it was good but I wish I had left earlier than 6 years. Trying to work on that powderkeg of a relationship was a waste of my time.


    What you're talking about is very different to cheating because ''the spark was gone''.

    I did not say anything about leaving, or cheating during, or giving up on abusive relationships.Which is what you were in.


    If you think the comment is cliched and something from a movie or soap opera I won't be able to change your mind as we are obviously coming from very different outlooks and experiences. I can assure you it's not based on anything from movies, though. Maybe look to elderly couples who have made a success of their marriages.


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    #179
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Colser wrote: »
    So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

    Because it's much easier for women to get sex than men so they don't have to pay for it. Same reason women don't have to pay to get into nightclubs. And there is a latent market for it. Look how popular 50 shades was.


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    #180
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    professore wrote: »
    I'll humour you for a minute and say that's what I'm using for a yardstick. What yardstick do you use?

    I don't use one. I like to consider every detail before I rush to judgement.


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    #181
    Colser
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭Colser


    HensVassal wrote:
    Why, if a man was in a relationship that he's happy with, would he watch a pornographic movie?


    Ridiculous comparison ...try harder ðŸ˜


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