Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

HellSquirrel · 12-12-2016 9:45am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It very positive for genetic variety, particularly if either or both parties can get away without it being noticed by the other partners. Cheating is a successful evolutionary development, and perfectly natural for those who engage in it. They are not bad people, simply differently-loyal, and should not be condemned for that. Embrace the variety of humanity, and allow them be true to their nature without criticism.

The phrase "differently-loyal" does make me suspect sarcasm, but just in case...

It's not particularly positive for genetic variety. Given the massive social taboo against it, offspring of a "unsanctioned" relationship will often have their parentage kept secret which can result in unfortunate issues later on, particularly in smaller populations, where half-siblings meet and marry. If anything, it's more important for genetic diversity for people living in societies to keep track of their genetic heritage to avoid consequences later on. Generally said consequences will be purely social, but there's that higher chance for genetic consequences too.

If "differently-loyal" means breaking vows to another person, causing them significant pain and hurt and being utterly dishonest to them, well, yeah, I suppose you could call it differently-loyal, but "disloyal" is probably the simpler term :P And people are socially "condemned" as you say, because of the trouble brought on their family and wider connections, which is also pretty natural.

There can be and are reasons and situations where it's more understandable and usually, quicker forgiven.

12-12-2016 9:46am

Next you'll be saying, it's not divorce, it's conscious uncoupling!!

Never mind Lucretia, you're raping this thread.

Autonomous Cowherd · 12-12-2016 9:50am

If partners have an agreement to be honest then it is bad to break that agreement. The agreement might be that either can have sex elsewhere and that's grand, but more usually the agreement is that both will be sexually faithful. These agreements come about because, object as people may these days, sex is linked to emotions. We invest in a sort of sacred trust that is foundational in our lives. (Unless we agree otherwise). I don't know what kind of urgent sexual scenario could unavoidably crop up that would mean one could not postpone the breathless deed until they have behaved decently to their partner who is nobly keeping their side of the agreement intact. Let your old love know in advance of your impending alteration to the agreement. Anything else is pretty lame. It's simple really. Just be freaking honest, friends.

HellSquirrel · 12-12-2016 9:52am

Oh, another point that makes cheating not particularly helpful to the human race is the spread of STDs. A secretive relationship is also built on trust, and -generally- doesn't have as much personal knowledge between the partners.

MRnotlob606 · 12-12-2016 9:54am

Candie wrote: »

There's more than one reason why a person might cheat. A person who's in a loveless, perhaps bullying or abusive marriage who perhaps has been denied sex, love or respect for years, is a whole different dealio to a person who just fancies a shag with a stranger without a care or second thought of their OH.

Sometimes good people do bad things, but I'd despise cheating in general.

I don't being denied sex is enough grounds to cheat on someone.

seamus · 12-12-2016 9:55am

So I can't understand someone following their genitals so much that they would lose all reason.

If you want a quickie, then go home and pull/rub yourself off, problem solved.
If you've fallen for someone else, then end your current relationship before starting the next one.

But that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. There are many shades between the two extremes, reasons why someone might cheat in a way that's neither a quickie nor a romantic relationship. And many states of mind an individual can find themselves in where they aren't capable of traditionally rational thought.

Would I judge and look down on someone who is/has cheating on their partner? Yeah. But I wouldn't write them off as a despicable person. You never really know the full story, and especially when you get the "victim"'s side of the story it's very easy to paint the perpetrator as a heartless (man)whore.

12-12-2016 10:10am

I used to think so. But then, I'd say pretty much all of my male friends who are married or are in relationships have cheated,some do it wholesale. So have stopped the whole judgement thing. It's not for me, but have accepted that it's pretty widespread.

HensVassal · 12-12-2016 10:34am

posturingpat wrote: »

I'm no saint, far from it but when it comes to purposely doing something that you know will hurt someone you care for or did care for people come up with far too many excuses.
Just don't do it.

Apparently humans are not monogamous by nature. So what's it going to be then? Go with nature or against it? The Catholic Church tried its utmost to force people to suppress natural instincts (masturbation, "impure" thoughts, sex for enjoyment rather than procreation, etc.). It's very rare for 2 people to completely fullfil each other's every need, looks, personality, sex drive, compassion, security, parental expertise, etc.
I'm not saying cheating is normal or natural or should just be expected, but the experts suggest that lifelong fidelity is not the norm.

Autonomous Cowherd · 12-12-2016 10:45am

HensVassal wrote: »

Apparently humans are not monogamous by nature. So what's it going to be then? Go with nature or against it? The Catholic Church tried its utmost to force people to suppress natural instincts (masturbation, "impure" thoughts, sex for enjoyment rather than procreation, etc.). It's very rare for 2 people to completely fullfil each other's every need, looks, personality, sex drive, compassion, security, parental expertise, etc.
I'm not saying cheating is normal or natural or should just be expected, but the experts suggest that lifelong fidelity is not the norm.

Lifelong partnering is not really the issue though. Perhaps monogamy is unnatural. It boils down to courtesy and honesy. It's not really about sexual ''morality'' at all, whatever that is, it's more about being moral generally. If one does not wish to be monogamous then tell the other person so they know the score. Otherwise it is duplicitous.

HensVassal · 12-12-2016 10:45am

GiantTcr wrote: »

Then whats the point in being in a relationship with someone if you know you want to be with someone else? If you are a good person, it's cut and dry. You leave that person you are in the relationship with, in order to be with another person. Simple really.

But it's not simple really. Take a woman who is in a marriage that has gone sour. She has children by a man and stays with the husband despite there being no love or even respect and attraction anymore. She cooks, cleans, cares for and provides for the children with very little in return. She doesn't have the wherewithall to support the children on her own should she separate from the husband so she stays for the sake of their upbringing. In secret she has met a man who knows she is married and he provides for her some tenderness and love that is so missing in her life.

Now you can go the dogmatic, black and white route by insisting that she should then split up with the husband and the other guy should provide for her and her kids, but no it's not that simple.

Autonomous Cowherd · 12-12-2016 10:49am

HensVassal wrote: »

But it's not simple really. Take a woman who is in a marriage that has gone sour. She has children by a man and stays with the husband despite there being no love or even respect and attraction anymore. She cooks, cleans, cares for and provides for the children with very little in return. She doesn't have the wherewithall to support the children on her own should she separate from the husband so she stays for the sake of their upbringing. In secret she has met a man who knows she is married and he provides for her some tenderness and love that is so missing in her life.

Now you can go the dogmatic, black and white route by insisting that she should then split up with the husband and the other guy should provide for her and her kids, but no it's not that simple.

There's always some way out though, from that kind of scenario. Even if it means to be poor for a while. To live in such close intimate quarters everyday with someone who has no love or respect for you....

that's very sad.

HensVassal · 12-12-2016 10:52am

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Oh, another point that makes cheating not particularly helpful to the human race is the spread of STDs. A secretive relationship is also built on trust, and -generally- doesn't have as much personal knowledge between the partners.

One doesn't have to cheat to contract or spread an STD.

GiantTcr · 12-12-2016 10:53am

buried wrote: »

Its not that cut and dry though. People who are involved with other people, be it through a relationship, be it through a family, be it through a friendship, they can hurt each other all the time.
Its probably the most frequent thing that happens in any relationship in those close knit social areas. Doesn't mean any party involved is necessarily 'bad' or 'malevolent'. People p!ss each other off all the time.
Fair enough, ignoring the fact someone may be p!ssing you off and not addressing that fact and situation to the other person isn't fair either, but some folk may not want to address that situation out into the open, they may not want to for whatever reason they have themselves. They could be scared, they could be frightened to do so, they may feel they have been betrayed themselves, countless social mind pressures like that, god only knows. Doesn't make them 'bad'. That's too simplistic

I don't understand your post. If you are saying that people cheat for all sorts of reasons, of course they do. However it doesn't make it right. And if you are saying there are all sorts of pressures in life that result in peole cheating, sorry, but that doesn't wash with me. Relationships are supposed to be built on trust and life is throwing sh1t at you, the first person you should be turning to for help is your partner. If you don't have that trust then (in my opinion) the relationship is worthless and it's time to move on.

HensVassal · 12-12-2016 10:58am

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Lifelong partnering is not really the issue though. Perhaps monogamy is unnatural. It boils down to courtesy and honesy. It's not really about sexual ''morality'' at all, whatever that is, it's more about being moral generally. If one does not wish to be monogamous then tell the other person so they know the score. Otherwise it is duplicitous.

I agree to a certain extent. Fidelity is not the same as loyalty but open relationships are rare (except in France :P). It's rare to find someone who will tolerate their partner sleeping around.

Autonomous Cowherd · 12-12-2016 11:01am

HensVassal wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent. Fidelity is not the same as loyalty but open relationships are rare (except in France :P). It's rare to find someone who will tolerate their partner sleeping around.

I agree with you too, but blech just the idea of a life full of lies. Looking at someone everyday and lying to them. I'd prefer to live in a ditch..haha. I just wouldn't see the point in having a pretend relationship. If cheating is so common as it appears to be, why can't people just sign up for that in the first place.
Anyways, shrugs. People. :rolleyes:

checkyabadself · 12-12-2016 11:03am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its a different strokes for different folks sort of thing.

More like a stroking different folks sort of thing.

I'm fiercely loyal and find anyone who cheats to be a coward who wants the best of both worlds.

I've known a handful of cheaters both male and female and they have all been spineless ****s.

HensVassal · 12-12-2016 11:05am

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

There's always some way out though, from that kind of scenario. Even if it means to be poor for a while. To live in such close intimate quarters everyday with someone who has no love or respect for you.... that's very sad.

It's very sad. But people are risk averse, afraid of upheaval, resistant to change and fearful of the unknown even though 9 times out of 10 the change is easier and for the better once one gets over one's fear and takes the plunge no matter what the change is (career change, relationship change, complete lifestyle change, whatever). It's easier said than done and the poor woman in the hypothetical situation that I mentioned may just think that the possible consequences of her change might just not be worth the risk.

Fluffy Cat 88 · 12-12-2016 11:07am

People who have affairs are not necessarily "bad" people, but they're untrustworthy.

If a person cheats, always expect them to do so again. A girl who worked with me once was very shocked when her boyfriend (who cheated on, then left his wife and kids for her) moved on to the next gullible woman. What on earth did she expect? Loyalty? Monogamy?

If you obtain a partner this way, expect the inevitable. They might be a good person in every other way, but once a cheater - always a cheater.

sbsquarepants · 12-12-2016 11:29am

Very little in life is ever black and white.

Some people just don't give a toss about others, we all know people (usually men it has to be said, but not exclusively) who will just fúck anyone that will have them and don't think twice about the consequences. Those people are generally assholes in every way, shape and form. I'm happy to judge these as simply bad people.
But there is a also a large cohort of people who for one reason or another are unhappy and just trying to get by - it's far too simplistic to just say end it with your partner and start again, that's fine when you're twenty and living with your parents - things get much more complicated when there are kids and mortgages and so on. These people, I try not get too judgemental with. No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors and it could simply be some man or woman striving to stay sane in cold hard world.

That being said - it just wouldn't be for me, the idea holds very little appeal for me whatsoever.

I have also noticed a tendency to blame the other man or woman. "That bitch broke up a happy family" kind of thing, which I find bizarre - if the family was all that happy, there wouldn't have been another man or woman would there!
It's a similar mindset to "she's off limits, she's married" - I don't get that one either - that means she's promised to stay away from other men, not that other men have swore to stay away from her. If you take a vow, the onus is on you to keep it, not the rest of the world!

Commotion Ocean · 12-12-2016 11:30am

If a woman has an affair people say "her husband must be an arsehole".

If a man has an affair, people say "the man is an arsehole".

Either way, the finger of blame points at the man.

Widdershins · 12-12-2016 11:39am

What about the person they're doing the cheating with?

A friend would do it in a flash and the married man she is after has spun her a story about his partner being unstable and him only being with her because she'd fall apart without him.

Do people really expect someone to say ''actually I've got a great and very loving partner I just don't have it in me to be loyal but I want to keep them so I'll sneak behind their back with you'' ?

Widdershins · 12-12-2016 11:43am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I have also noticed a tendency to blame the other man or woman. "That bitch broke up a happy family" kind of thing, which I find bizarre - if the family was all that happy, there wouldn't have been another man or woman would there!

Even happy families go through bad patches during which either partner could be more confused and vulnerable and maybe more likely to make a mistake. It's not right to knowingly try to lead them astray. I would never flirt with a married man. Why would I want to tempt him knowing he's committed himself to someone else? That would just be weird and twisted.

seamus · 12-12-2016 12:02pm

dfeo wrote: »

If a woman has an affair people say "her husband must be an arsehole".

If a man has an affair, people say "the man is an arsehole".

Either way, the finger of blame points at the man.

Actually I'd say the balance is entirely the opposite way. A woman who has an affair is a homewrecker, a whore. The entire relationship is called into question and whether she "really" loved her partner or was just using him.

A man who has an affair is just a man doing man things, it's usually chalked down to a "moment of weakness".

In the case of a man having an affair, it's the other woman who often takes a fair chunk of the blame.

Women are traditionally seen as wielding the sexual power, therefore when an affair happens, it's because a woman has chosen to abuse that power, and not because the guy is a dick.

A Little Pony · 12-12-2016 1:20pm

Marriage is a nonsense. It is just a day out for the woman.

Widdershins · 12-12-2016 1:28pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Marriage is a nonsense. It is just a day out for the woman.

That's the wedding, the marriage is only a nonsense if it's a hollow ritual to either party and it's as strong as the two people going into it want it to be.

MeatTwoVeg · 12-12-2016 1:30pm

It's none of your business what other people get up to if it doesn't affect you.

Irish people like to elect themselves as moral arbiters of others.

Nemesis666 · 12-12-2016 1:55pm

I've been cheated on and I have cheated. I don't think that cheating makes someone a bad person necessarily. It very much depends on the the context and there can be all kinds of mitigating factors (and I absolutely do believe that a sexless relationship is a mitigating factor, if you are unwilling to have sex with your partner for whatever reason I think it is incredibly unfair to expect them to remain faithful to you, with regards to sex anyway, we're human, we need to have sex) . I felt terrible guilt when I cheated and I either ended the relationship or confessed, both times but I have also come across so many people in long term relationships who have cheated or who want to cheat or who would cheat given the opportunity that I think it's far more common than a lot of people think it is. Perhaps it isn't natural for human beings to be monogamous. I don't judge people who cheat now because I know how it feels to be in their position and I don't envy them.

sbsquarepants · 12-12-2016 2:22pm

Widdershins wrote: »

Even happy families go through bad patches during which either partner could be more confused and vulnerable and maybe more likely to make a mistake. It's not right to knowingly try to lead them astray. I would never flirt with a married man. Why would I want to tempt him knowing he's committed himself to someone else? That would just be weird and twisted.

I don't know, it would and it wouldn't. If you were doing it to just cause trouble for his missus, then yea it's weird and twisted. If it was someone you genuinely liked, well then that's different. Relationships end all the time - it entirely up to the couple themselves to either value and preserve their union or let it fall apart.
If someone's wife is willing to sleep with me behind their husbands back, then I just don't see that I owe the husband anything. If she has decided her wedding vows mean nothing - who the hell am I to argue?
Don't get me wrong - I'm not about to sleep with anyones wife - but the reason is not because I care in any way about their relationship, it's because I care about mine. If they don't care - why the hell should I?

Widdershins · 12-12-2016 2:41pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't know, it would and it wouldn't. If you were doing it to just cause trouble for his missus, then yea it's weird and twisted. If it was someone you genuinely liked, well then that's different. Relationships end all the time - it entirely up to the couple themselves to either value and preserve their union or let it fall apart.
If someone's wife is willing to sleep with me behind their husbands back, then I just don't see that I owe the husband anything. If she has decided her wedding vows mean nothing - who the hell am I to argue?
Don't get me wrong - I'm not about to sleep with anyones wife - but the reason is not because I care in any way about their relationship, it's because I care about mine. If they don't care - why the hell should I?

Hmm. So essentially, it's ok to cause trouble for his missus if you're genuinely attracted to her?

sashafierce · 12-12-2016 3:23pm

This post has been deleted.

Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

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