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should Heroin users be locked up?

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Comments

  • #62
    toptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭toptom


    Lock them all up, No use to society. Only let them out when they are clean.


  • #63
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Summer wind wrote: »
    melissak wrote: »
    How about we send you there? Jog on back under your bridge.

    Nice big high horse you are on there.
    It isn't as high as your horse. Or you if that was a serious comment.


  • #64
    Summer wind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭Summer wind


    melissak wrote: »
    It isn't as high as your horse. Or you if that was a serious comment.

    Do you really think it was?


  • #65
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    Remove their veins so they can't inject heroin and give them to needy children born without veins.


  • #66
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    I suppose not on reflection but it was mean. I get a bit knee jerk sometimes


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  • #67
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,949 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    toptom wrote: »
    Lock them all up, No use to society. Only let them out when they are clean.

    Was that a serious comment or piece of sarcasm? :)


  • #68
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    The strength of sentencing should work in reverse order. Users get life, dealers get 20 years, suppliers get 5 years and international drug kingpins get a slap on the wrist.


  • #69
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    toptom wrote: »
    Lock them all up, No use to society. Only let them out when they are clean.

    Was that a serious comment or piece of sarcasm? :)
    They are often the same. As the saying goes many a true word is spoken in jest. (by people without gumption). Not necessarily though. Sometimes it is hard to tell


  • #70
    Bicky bicky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭Bicky bicky


    toptom wrote: »
    Lock them all up, No use to society. Only let them out when they are clean.

    Pointless there is heroin in jails at inflated prices so it's either get money lodged to your prison account to pay for it or u can do jobs for other prisoners to get it.

    The medadone program is useless and most people put on it stay on it but at least it's something to try wean people off it but the real deal will always call.

    I know lots of people who have never got help because of the stigma attached to being an addict on doctors or others professionals file which will follow you for the rest of your days.


  • #71
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Bicky bicky wrote: »
    toptom wrote: »
    Lock them all up, No use to society. Only let them out when they are clean.

    Pointless there is heroin in jails at inflated prices so it's either get money lodged to your prison account to pay for it or u can do jobs for other prisoners to get it.

    The medadone program is useless and most people put on it stay on it but at least it's something to try wean people off it but the real deal will always call.

    I know lots of people who have never got help because of the stigma attached to being an addict on doctors or others professionals file which will follow you for the rest of your days.
    The same for mental health issues I would imagine. You would think being a recovered addict would be a point in your favour. It is a major achievement.


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  • #72
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    looking_around wrote: »
    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    might have been watching too many films (like trainspotting lol) and soaps but if you have a loved one and you want to try and get them off drugs you *lock them up in a room* , get them away from suppliers and try and break the cycle , you let them ride it out and hope that after they get over the cold turkey bit their head is clearer and vow that they will never go back to doing drugs again (in an ideal world) - if we just carry on supplying them drugs (whether it will be medically specialised shoot up places/premises in towns and cities) your not really helping them to get off the gear your just shifting maybe the problems out of one area into another area

    Only, you can't force someone to sober up. The drug isn't the only thing causing the addiction. Addiction is often tied with depression and escapism. Cold turkey approach doesn't deal with why a person wants to spend all their time strung out.
    melissak wrote: »
    Can people really legally drive on vaLiam? I doubt it. It really zonks people let. Way more than say weed.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/completely-sober-drivers-who-smoked-cannabis-in-last-week-could-be-prosecuted-under-new-laws-711538.html

    I can't find limits for Ireland, but the UK are criticised for their drug driving laws. They do people for impaired driving even a week after they used an illegal drug. Conversely their legal prescription drug limits are potentially high enough for the person to still be impaired.

    It's not a fair system.
    What about prescription drugs not prescribed to you? Ridiculous. Impairment test fine btw.


  • #73
    Bicky bicky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭Bicky bicky


    melissak wrote: »
    The same for mental health issues I would imagine. You would think being a recovered addict would be a point in your favour. It is a major achievement.

    Definitely is but I think I'm lucky I started using drugs at a young age and was able to eventually get off drugs by having good peers in my 20s and wanting not be at rock bottom every day so it has shaped me to who I am now and I do not regret it!


  • #74
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Andy From Sligo wrote:
    i'm all for those that want to be really rehabilitated and kick the drugs once and for all, but what about the ones that will never make an attempt to get off it until it kills them or a medical problem associated with taking drugs finishes them off - do we forget about them particular citizens? do we let them carry on because we know that they are a lost cause? - do we supply them to help them with their addiction? - do we let them carry on robbing and mugging people for money so they can pay for their wares?, do we hope that they dont end up disrupting people trying to go along their lives by jumping out in front of a train whilst spaced out? - what about if they were arrested and put in jail , fed/sheltered/better chance of coming off drugs (maybe) , out of harms way (for them as well as any potential victims of them) sure they might even get off the stuff, get medical help and maybe help with depression or addiction whilst they are in prison - (it might be a shorter waiting list in prison than on the outside i dunno) - they might even end up getting a little job in there and they could also make friends in there or be around people with the same issues.

    Sorry, is this prison you're talking about? I get that you're just coming up with ideas but prison is the least suitable rehabilitation environment imaginable
    Imagine you were proposing a new type of heroine rehabilitation centre to a panel.

    The pitch goes; 'we lock them up in one of the most stressful environments you can imagine. Surrinded by criminals. Potential for violence and sexual assault at every moment. Bullies everwhere. Makes sure that most of the population have undiagnosed mental illness and personality disorders. Now we take away their freedom, give them a wee job and don't pay them. Make sure that drugs an gangs are everywhere. Sure they might get clean!

    Nothing about your scenario is conducive to getting clean.

    On a serious note, why are you perdisting with the prison solution? We know from countless trials that prison doesn't do that job.


  • #75
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    With some people shooting up in towns in broad daylight and (pushing aside the argument that prisons are already full) leaving all their used needles in the gutter and on the pavements and being out of their heads in public areas is it time now to criminalise hard drug users and give them a custodial sentence rather than go after the drug suppliers?

    Maybe it might help them more than the help they get on the outside? Going cold turkey in the prisons might get them off the stuff? Maybe they will get better care in prison than if they were out on streets?

    The system looks to me at the moment is the authorities go after the pushers and the addicts are tried to be given help (or clean syringes etc) but if the problem was dealt with in a different way and the drug users were locked up in prison for using then the suppliers would have less people to supply to.

    I do think hard drug users need help, but then again I do believe the public need to be protected too. They need to be protected from empty dirty needles left on the streets, they need not to be witnessing people shooting up drugs on the streets, they don't need the danger of someone doing something on hard drugs and not knowing what they are doing at the time, and the drug users themselves maybe need to be taken off the streets for their own good and safety.

    What are other peoples view on what I think or have you got any other suggestions as how to clean up the epidemic?
    The only solution is to allow heroin to be made available on prescription and have safe places where they can inject under medical supervision.

    In return for this they must attend counseling sessions and job workshops etc.

    Locking them up in prison is idiotic.


  • #76
    Lady is a tramp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Lady is a tramp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No, unless you can fix the prison system. Addiction, especially one to a harmful substance like heroin, is a horrible horrible situation. Locking them up, without any resources there to help them, and releasing them, will just result in an endless cycle. Better to have safe spaces in which they can shoot up, where they can be monitored medically and provide them with safe needles and adequate dumping of said needles.

    That's a really sad view of the situation. That their addiction is a permanent condition, and that they're not worth the effort and time and money it would take to fix them. No one has to live in the hell that is addiction. Everyone is worth being given a chance at a life free from addiction.
    akelly02 wrote: »
    Question

    Why do all Heroin addicts look the same??

    I've never noticed it, but my addiction counsellor was describing it to me recently. (I've never done drugs, my problem was alcohol.) She was describing "that look" that heroin addicts have, in reference to a previous patient. She said it's something to do with the shape of their jaw, it changes with years of heroin use, apparently! And I guess she'd know, given her career choice.


  • #77
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    melissak wrote: »
    What about prescription drugs not prescribed to you? Ridiculous. Impairment test fine btw.

    Impairment/cognitive test is best imo, that way it's not reliant on the levels in the body, which isnt an accurate test for being currently impaired. ..only that a person has used in the last 48 or 72 hours for the saliva test.

    Prescriptions are controlled substances, so it's illegal for someone to use it, if it wasn't prescribed to them.


  • #78
    talking_walnut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭talking_walnut


    toptom wrote: »
    Lock them all up, No use to society. Only let them out when they are clean.

    Not sure if "use to society" is a good metric for deciding who should and shouldn't be in prison. I know a lot of people that have and would never do drugs that don't contribute much.


  • #79
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    looking_around wrote: »
    Impairment/cognitive test is best imo, that way it's not reliant on the levels in the body, which isnt an accurate test for being currently impaired. ..only that a person has used in the last 48 or 72 hours for the saliva test.

    Prescriptions are controlled substances, so it's illegal for someone to use it, if it wasn't prescribed to them.
    But regarding the driving. Do they differentiate?


  • #80
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    talking_walnut wrote: »
    Not sure if "use to society" is a good metric for deciding who should and shouldn't be in prison. I know a lot of people that have and would never do drugs that don't contribute much.

    A lot of rich people with off shore accounts /other ways people avoid tithing might be getting nervous if we decided to apply that yardstick.


  • #81
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    talking_walnut wrote: »
    Not sure if "use to society" is a good metric for deciding who should and shouldn't be in prison. I know a lot of people that have and would never do drugs that don't contribute much.
    We should lock up the unemployed!


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  • #82
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    stefanovich wrote:
    We should lock up the unemployed!

    And the disabled and the infirm, and those with mental illness and chronic health conditions, no doubt.


  • #83
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    And the disabled and the infirm, and those with mental illness and chronic health conditions, no doubt.

    And the wealthy tax avoiders. And the government. Where will it end..


  • #84
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    It costs about 70000 e per year to keep someone in prison. Prisons should be solely for people too dangerous to be free.


  • #85
    Icaras
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭Icaras


    One of the reasons heroin is so popular is it gives "value for money", if your homeless with nothing to do all day but sit around and feel sorry for yourself something that gives you a euphoric feeling for X amount of time looks pretty good. It then begins to spiral. If you have nothing to live for the positives far outweigh the negatives.

    Heroin use/addiction is not a simple issue that can be solved by one means it is very complex with many different reasons for use.


  • #86
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Icaras wrote: »
    One of the reasons heroin is so popular is it gives "value for money", if your homeless with nothing to do all day but sit around and feel sorry for yourself something that gives you a euphoric feeling for X amount of time looks pretty good. It then begins to spiral. If you have nothing to live for the positives far outweigh the negatives.

    Heroin use/addiction is not a simple issue that can be solved by one means it is very complex with many different reasons for use.
    Also it is very much "on the fringe" of society. Heroin users tend to only associate with each others because of the "can't trust a junky" mentality. It os very hard to come back from there.


  • #87
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    melissak wrote:
    And the wealthy tax avoiders. And the government. Where will it end..

    Retired people? People who were been off inheritance?


  • #88
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    If we're locking up people that we don't like, can I put in a motion to lock up people that wear brown boots, bootcut jeans and those stupid shirts that have 2 buttons on the collar?


  • #89
    toptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭toptom


    talking_walnut wrote: »
    Not sure if "use to society" is a good metric for deciding who should and shouldn't be in prison. I know a lot of people that have and would never do drugs that don't contribute much.

    But do they go around stealing handbags and breaking into businesses ? Our city and town centres look like ghettos over these useless corner boys.


  • #90
    talking_walnut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭talking_walnut


    toptom wrote: »
    talking_walnut wrote: »
    Not sure if "use to society" is a good metric for deciding who should and shouldn't be in prison. I know a lot of people that have and would never do drugs that don't contribute much.

    But do they go around stealing handbags and breaking into businesses ? Our city and town centres look like ghettos over these useless corner boys.
    Plenty do. Just like plenty of drug users don't. Life and people are rarely black and white.

    I also don't think it's a good idea to base our system of law and order on what people find aesthetically appealing. If our city and town centres look like ghettos then maybe it's time to figure out why people decide on this way of life instead of trying to brush the problem under the carpet, close our eyes and stick out fingers in our ears and hope it goes away. Complex problems require more than a single sentence solution.


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  • #91
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    And the disabled and the infirm, and those with mental illness and chronic health conditions, no doubt.

    And the young.


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