should Heroin users be locked up?

Andy From Sligo

With some people shooting up in towns in broad daylight and (pushing aside the argument that prisons are already full) leaving all their used needles in the gutter and on the pavements and being out of their heads in public areas is it time now to criminalise hard drug users and give them a custodial sentence rather than go after the drug suppliers?

Maybe it might help them more than the help they get on the outside? Going cold turkey in the prisons might get them off the stuff? Maybe they will get better care in prison than if they were out on streets?

The system looks to me at the moment is the authorities go after the pushers and the addicts are tried to be given help (or clean syringes etc) but if the problem was dealt with in a different way and the drug users were locked up in prison for using then the suppliers would have less people to supply to.

I do think hard drug users need help, but then again I do believe the public need to be protected too. They need to be protected from empty dirty needles left on the streets, they need not to be witnessing people shooting up drugs on the streets, they don't need the danger of someone doing something on hard drugs and not knowing what they are doing at the time, and the drug users themselves maybe need to be taken off the streets for their own good and safety.

What are other peoples view on what I think or have you got any other suggestions as how to clean up the epidemic?

ohnonotgmail

I believe anybody that uses brave women should be locked up.

RGDATA!

i don't suppose heroin is available at all in prison, or even that that's where some people get addicted to it

FTA69

RGDATA! wrote: »

i don't suppose heroin is available at all in prison, or even that that's where some people get addicted to it

Exactly, Irish prisons are riddled with drugs and its tacitly facilitated by the institution as it's the only thing that keeps a lid on prisons packed to double their capacity. My old man worked in Cork Prison for twenty odd years and that's his story anyway, I've heard similar from others involved with it.

Heroin addiction should be treated as a medical and social issue. In the Netherlands they give free heroin to addicts which has eliminated crime from this group as they don't rob and shoplift. The average age of a heroin addict in Amsterdam is 40 odd and it's 19 in Dublin by the way so it's clear which approach works.

SEPT 23 1989

I think parents should allow small amounts from a young age it takes the whole mystery out of it i would prefer them using with me in the safety of their own home than shooting up in the fields unsupervised

jam_mac_jam

Legalise it all, would be an easier solution.

LeinsterDub

The war on drugs has been an almighty failure globally. Its time for a radical change of policy

okatied

No, but bad spellers should😄

ScumLord

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

With some people shooting up in towns in broad daylight and (pushing aside the argument that prisons are already full) leaving all their used needles in the gutter and on the pavements and being out of their heads in public areas is it time now to criminalise hard drug users and give them a custodial sentence rather than go after the drug suppliers?

Heroin use is a crime, the users don't get off scot free when they're caught. They also go after the dealers.

Give registered heroin addicts free heroin and a safe place to use it. While they're there encourage them to enter treatment. At the very least it would cripple the illegal market making it unsustainable. Less dealers, means less people getting addicted in the first place. I'd even let your average citizen register to try it in these places if they so desire.

I think heroin is one of the easier ones to combat because the users will follow the supply no matter where it goes. No heroin user is going to say no to free heroin and the dealers can't match the price or quality.

s4uv3

The users are the victims, and need to be treated as such. Being in prison won't help get them off the stuff.

As for the paraphernalia littering, yeah that's pretty shítty, but it's the minority that do it. Same as fly tipping and any other litter, dangerous or otherwise.

CarrickMcJoe

God, Sligo's getting rough...

Seriously, unfortunately drugs are a massive problem in this country and frankly it's hard to know where it will end. Some want shooting up houses in the city but that only moves the problem off the board walk and O Connell St for tourism's sake. (It's like walking through the living dead in Dublin).

If they are in prison chances are they will get drugs inside and come out worse.

Maybe try to educate more about the dangers of drugs through schools and stop glorifying them in movies, rock stars etc.

MRnotlob606

Ive been taken anne frank pills for a while now

s4uv3

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Ive been taken anne frank pills for a while now

When you're slagging another posters spelling, the least you can do is get your own correct. :pac:

ScumLord

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Maybe try to educate more about the dangers of drugs through schools and stop glorifying them in movies, rock stars etc.

They've been "educating" us in schools since at least the 80s. Doesn't work, if anything all they're doing is promoting drug use. Most kids never think about them till parents and schools start raving about them.

There isn't some rock & movie association where they set an agenda for how they'll promote lifestyles. They make movies about interesting people and as it turns out a lot of interesting people do drugs.

El_Duderino 09

It depends on what you want. If you want to punish heroine users then lock them up.

If you want to reduce rates of heroine use and the associated social problems, then treat it as a medical and social issue. Simples

wes

We should offer them treatment for there addition, and try to rehabilitate them.

everlast75

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Ive been taken anne frank pills for a while now

Really???

How did you find them?

smash

ScumLord wrote: »

Give registered heroin addicts free heroin and a safe place to use it. While they're there encourage them to enter treatment.

Or lure them in with free heroin and follow up by forcing them in to a cold turkey detox.

Junkyard Tom

The problem with heroin is that it's very moreish.

No, unless you can fix the prison system. Addiction, especially one to a harmful substance like heroin, is a horrible horrible situation. Locking them up, without any resources there to help them, and releasing them, will just result in an endless cycle. Better to have safe spaces in which they can shoot up, where they can be monitored medically and provide them with safe needles and adequate dumping of said needles.

Andy From Sligo

Ok - i personally dont think education is working, I dont think giving them special buildings of accommodation to shoot up will work - I dont believe they need help and rehabilitation on the outside. I do believe they need to be locked up (not punishment wise) in a organised institution such as a prison or somewhere where persons in authority can keep an eye on them 24 hours and if it means they still get there drugs in prison then fine if they are not prepared to come off the drugs once and for all on the outside.

So Im a bit naive in the respect, what is their downfall when they are caught and arrested in the streets? - are they cautioned?, or fined?, or go to prison anyway? or given medical help? - given help to kick it or what?

Nothings working is it and it hasnt been working for years no matter what anyone comes up with, yes they have a problem, yes a lot of them its not their fault how they got into taking it , yes a lot of them it is their fault that they started doing it and that they have no intention of kicking it until they overdose and die- but should the habitual takers be mixing with the (decent law abiding - haha) general public on the outside who just want to see their cities cleaned up of this once and for all (not pushed out of public shopping streets up to the back alleyways and areas of towns where shoppers and tourists never ever go) but to kick it into touch once and for all and clean up all the syringes and other paraphernalia and keep the streets and areas clean and drug free - the only way your gonna do this it stop (and maybe not the right terminology I am using here) lock them up away from society (note I said the ones that are habitual and there is no way they are gonna come off the stuff, im not talking about people who dabble in it every now and again)

smash

Deleted User wrote: »

Better to have safe spaces in which they can shoot up, where they can be monitored medically and provide them with safe needles and adequate dumping of said needles.

No it really isn't. Pandering to the addiction is as much of a problem. Just look at all the methadone zombies that inhabit Dublin.

looking_around

Why do we as a society think it's ok to decide what someone does with their body?
Why is it ok to criminalise the use of one drug and not another? Why is it ok to punish someone for hurting themselves?

Legalize, so that there's somewhere safe to use. Quality and quantity assured. Educate honestly about the risk.

I remember being told all drugs are bad..and my first thought was " if that's so, why do people use in the first place " It made me curious. ..my second was "why is alcohol and ciggerates legal so?"

After that I went reading, trying to find unbiased views. (There were not many out there. )
What I did find out is the schedules and prohibition was rarely about safety..and that made me even more curious in the way of "If they've lied about this, what else have they lied about"?

I believe they should legalize all. People aren't going to suddenly turn into addicts all over the pace. ..the same way most people aren't alcoholics and most people who have been prescribed pain killers don't instantly start chasing heroin.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

With some people shooting up in towns in broad daylight and (pushing aside the argument that prisons are already full) leaving all their used needles in the gutter and on the pavements and being out of their heads in public areas is it time now to criminalise hard drug users and give them a custodial sentence rather than go after the drug suppliers?

Maybe it might help them more than the help they get on the outside? Going cold turkey in the prisons might get them off the stuff? Maybe they will get better care in prison than if they were out on streets?

The system looks to me at the moment is the authorities go after the pushers and the addicts are tried to be given help (or clean syringes etc) but if the problem was dealt with in a different way and the drug users were locked up in prison for using then the suppliers would have less people to supply to.

I do think hard drug users need help, but then again I do believe the public need to be protected too. They need to be protected from empty dirty needles left on the streets, they need not to be witnessing people shooting up drugs on the streets, they don't need the danger of someone doing something on hard drugs and not knowing what they are doing at the time, and the drug users themselves maybe need to be taken off the streets for their own good and safety.

What are other peoples view on what I think or have you got any other suggestions as how to clean up the epidemic?

Yay! Another well informed drug rant!

Drug use is not the same as drug abuse. There are lots of "hard" drugs out there that people use recreationally without ever getting addicted, going on crime sprees or hurting themselves or other people (althoguh admittedly, heroin is one of the stronger ones, but that doesn't mean you can tar everything with the same brush).

You just have to be resonsible with what you take and when you and where you take it.

Heroin is also said to be less destructive than alcohol, so to me, this is the equivalent of saying alcoholics should be thrown in jail.

Education does work, just to take from another of your posts. The problem, it's never actually been tried.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

No, unless you can fix the prison system. Addiction, especially one to a harmful substance like heroin, is a horrible horrible situation. Locking them up, without any resources there to help them, and releasing them, will just result in an endless cycle. Better to have safe spaces in which they can shoot up, where they can be monitored medically and provide them with safe needles and adequate dumping of said needles.

well i dunno really, how are they coping with the drug addicts in Prison? - maybe they are coping with it better than the organisations and volunteers that are on the outside. I'm sure the situations on the outside would be tons worse without all the help the addicts get on the outside dont get me wrong, but its not ideal - it dont look like there is no deterrent now otherwise you would not get people shooting up and dealing in broad daylight and every year an increase in people on the streets taking and dealing drugs.

akelly02

Question

Why do all Heroin addicts look the same??

Dr Crayfish

akelly02 wrote: »

Question

Why do all Heroin addicts look the same??

Yes. Anna Nicole Smith was the image of John Lennon!

Dr Crayfish

akelly02 wrote: »

Question

Why do all Heroin addicts look the same??

But yeah in Dublin they're all skinny as, (apart from the strange phenomenon that is obese knacker heroin addict birds) and obviously share the same stylist as their clothes seem to all match.

Samaris

Methadone is one of the ways of helping people off heroin, so it's a bit of a catch-22 there.

The US has tried draconian prison sentences for drugs (there was a serious suggestion going on at one point in the late 90s to sentence anyone convicted of bringing more than 2 ounces of marijuana into the US the death sentence!) and all that's happened is that the prisons are full of drug users and, because of mandatory sentencing, violent criminals are getting shorter sentences because there just isn't room. On top of that, they make it insanely hard for anyone convicted of any sort of drug offence to ever get employment again. Unsurprisingly, that's not helped anything.

I don't agree with full legalisation for heroin either. It will make it a lot easier for teenagers to get their hands on it and teenagers aren't exactly the most sensible age group out there for trying stuff. I do sorta agree with making it easier for people with a chronic drug addiction to get sterilised. Not forced sterilisation, because that's a route we really don't want to be going down, but certainly having it as an allowable reason to seek sterilisation.

I suspect to some extent it will be a case of just riding it out, clamping down on places where drug use is becoming rife (because that means there are people dealing it). There's always going to be some people who get into the spiral and there's not a great deal that can be done bar sensible education on it (and on the different strengths and dangers to various types of drug), imprisoning the dealers to make supply more difficult and so less people starting on it and giving a helping hand to those that want to get clean. Don't put non-violent drug-users into prison, but maybe alternative prisons, so to speak, specifically aimed at getting people hooked on illegal drugs clean. The normal prison system exposes others to their sources and increases the likelihood of people starting in jail.

Bar the last, it's pretty much what we do at the moment. It's absolutely not a perfect system but there really doesn't seem to -be- a perfect system.

Andy From Sligo

looking_around wrote: »

Why do we as a society think it's ok to decide what someone does with their body?
...

because if it just affects the person that takes it and no-one else then thats OK, but when people are so high out of their minds that they dont have a clue what they are doing and more at risk of being danger to the general public maybe they should be supervised and locked up for their own safety as well as that the safety of general public/family or whoever could come into contact with them when they are zonked like that out of their skull on drugs - yep maybe your right as well, lock up alcoholics as well if they are a danger to others and yes again some alcoholics are such a danger when they are out in public , only to do something dangerous or kill someone only to be up in court and their defence solicitor explain to the judge and jury that they were heavily drunk at the time and cannot remember anything of the night or what they were doing - which should never be taken account in defence I think.

Also if someone does drugs to 'their own body' in the streets it has other knock on consequences as littering the streets with harmful syringes, blocking pavements, begging for money, there could be a bit of robbery and pick-pocketing for money for their habit, they may become alienated and vent their anger to public if they cannot get their fix, the list goes on, so no they are not just doing it or keeping it to themselves most of the time.

And what ever happened to the "Intoxicated in a public area" law - Im pretty sure there is one for Ireland isnt there?, only I never seem to see it put into place hardly any of the time.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Also if someone does drugs to 'their own body' in the streets it has other knock on consequences as littering the streets with harmful syringes, blocking pavements, begging for money, there could be a bit of robbery and pick-pocketing for money for their habit, they may become alienated and vent their anger to public if they cannot get their fix, the list goes on, so no they are not just doing it or keeping it to themselves most of the time.

What needs to happen is for those underlying problems to be taken seriously and delt with - not pretending that it's just down to drug addiction and cleaning that up will solve all the problems.

And what ever happened to the "Intoxicated in a public area" law - Im pretty sure there is one for Ireland isnt there?, only I never seem to see it put into place hardly any of the time.

That's down to the people enforcing it. A night in the cells and on your way seems to be the only way of dealing with it.

melissak

I disagree with locking them up. I also disagree with enabling. I am conflicted. Definitely decriminalise but pandering is not the answer. Unless we give free drugs of all kinds to addicts. It will cause people who can't afford their drug of choice to say feck it I'll do heroin. I know people who started taking heroin because there was nothing else available. Big big mistake. I would like these heroin centers to be changed to addiction centers. Unless the agenda is to kill off undesirables by escalation of their drug abuse this is very badly thought out. If this is the agenda it is evil but probably will be effective.

ScumLord

melissak wrote: »

I disagree with locking them up. I also disagree with enabling. I am conflicted. Definitely decriminalise but pandering is not the answer. Unless we give free drugs of all kinds to addicts. It will cause people who can't afford their drug of choice to say feck it I'll do heroin.

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen all that often. If you can't spend a few days without your drug of choice you've got problems, they're probably addicts and with a regulated market for tackling heroin abuse those addicts would rise up though the drugs into treatment if they're eventually going to end up on heroin.

The problem with decriminalisation is that it does nothing to solve the social issue. It takes pressure of the addicts and end users, it's great for individual rights but the industry remains unaffected.

Full on legalisation and regulation like I described is a direct attack on criminal finances and on the supply train. It's a financial blow that will completely undermine the market.

looking_around

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

because if it just affects the person that takes it and no-one else then thats OK, but when people are so high out of their minds that they dont have a clue what they are doing and more at risk of being danger to the general public maybe they should be supervised and locked up for their own safety as well as that the safety of general public/family or whoever could come into contact with them when they are zonked like that out of their skull on drugs - yep maybe your right as well, lock up alcoholics as well if they are a danger to others and yes again some alcoholics are such a danger when they are out in public , only to do something dangerous or kill someone only to be up in court and their defence solicitor explain to the judge and jury that they were heavily drunk at the time and cannot remember anything of the night or what they were doing - which should never be taken account in defence I think.

Also if someone does drugs to 'their own body' in the streets it has other knock on consequences as littering the streets with harmful syringes, blocking pavements, begging for money, there could be a bit of robbery and pick-pocketing for money for their habit, they may become alienated and vent their anger to public if they cannot get their fix, the list goes on, so no they are not just doing it or keeping it to themselves most of the time.

And what ever happened to the "Intoxicated in a public area" law - Im pretty sure there is one for Ireland isnt there?, only I never seem to see it put into place hardly any of the time.

You realise this happens with legal drugs? We don't arrest people for binge drinking UNLESS they put others at risk.
So why can't this same view be taken with other drugs?

People legally drive on valium because they're prescribed it...


Also the suggestion is to allow for safe injection sites. Thereby taking users off the streets.

My post didn't say legalise so they can use on the streets are get off scott free from committing crimes while high.

My post was just about allowing people personal responsibility with their bodies and treating all drug use the same. A user should not be punished simply for using. That's immoral imo.

I believe that there should be certain restrictions with the sale of some drugs but that they should all be legal.

El_Duderino 09

Andy From Sligo wrote:

Ok - i personally dont think education is working, I dont think giving them special buildings of accommodation to shoot up will work - I dont believe they need help and rehabilitation on the outside. I do believe they need to be locked up (not punishment wise) in a organised institution such as a prison or somewhere where persons in authority can keep an eye on them 24 hours and if it means they still get there drugs in prison then fine if they are not prepared to come off the drugs once and for all on the outside.

I appreciate that it's counter intuitive, but the evidence is against you. We don't educate very well and we definately don't treat it as a medical condition.

Locking them up would be similar to treating the problem, but it would be focused completely differently (warehousing rather than fixing the problem).

If you want to treat the problem, why not do it the way it has been proven to work in other countries?

melissak

ScumLord wrote: »

melissak wrote: »

I disagree with locking them up. I also disagree with enabling. I am conflicted. Definitely decriminalise but pandering is not the answer. Unless we give free drugs of all kinds to addicts. It will cause people who can't afford their drug of choice to say feck it I'll do heroin.

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen all that often. If you can't spend a few days without your drug of choice you've got problems, they're probably addicts and with a regulated market for tackling heroin abuse those addicts would rise up though the drugs into treatment if they're eventually going to end up on heroin.

The problem with decriminalisation is that it does nothing to solve the social issue. It takes pressure of the addicts and end users, it's great for individual rights but the industry remains unaffected.

Full on legalisation and regulation like I described is a direct attack on criminal finances and on the supply train. It's a financial blow that will completely undermine the market.

Many addicts are addicts that need for some reason to block out reality. If you can't go without your drug of choice for a few days you are an addict. Of you could take it or leave it you would not be an addict. I agree in part with legalisation and regulation, but not starting at the most harmful end of the spectrum. That is lunacy.

When you say they will rise up through the drugs to heroin and then get help would you consider this good?, maybe I am misunderstanding you but I would prefer them to get help long before they started injecting heroin. Not a lot come back once they have gone there in my experience.

melissak

looking_around wrote: »

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

because if it just affects the person that takes it and no-one else then thats OK, but when people are so high out of their minds that they dont have a clue what they are doing and more at risk of being danger to the general public maybe they should be supervised and locked up for their own safety as well as that the safety of general public/family or whoever could come into contact with them when they are zonked like that out of their skull on drugs - yep maybe your right as well, lock up alcoholics as well if they are a danger to others and yes again some alcoholics are such a danger when they are out in public , only to do something dangerous or kill someone only to be up in court and their defence solicitor explain to the judge and jury that they were heavily drunk at the time and cannot remember anything of the night or what they were doing - which should never be taken account in defence I think.

Also if someone does drugs to 'their own body' in the streets it has other knock on consequences as littering the streets with harmful syringes, blocking pavements, begging for money, there could be a bit of robbery and pick-pocketing for money for their habit, they may become alienated and vent their anger to public if they cannot get their fix, the list goes on, so no they are not just doing it or keeping it to themselves most of the time.

And what ever happened to the "Intoxicated in a public area" law - Im pretty sure there is one for Ireland isnt there?, only I never seem to see it put into place hardly any of the time.

You realise this happens with legal drugs? We don't arrest people for binge drinking UNLESS they put others at risk.
So why can't this same view be taken with other drugs?

People legally drive on valium because they're prescribed it...


Also the suggestion is to allow for safe injection sites. Thereby taking users off the streets.

My post didn't say legalise so they can use on the streets are get off scott free from committing crimes while high.

My post was just about allowing people personal responsibility with their bodies and treating all drug use the same. A user should not be punished simply for using. That's immoral imo.

I believe that there should be certain restrictions with the sale of some drugs but that they should all be legal.

Can people really legally drive on vaLiam? I doubt it. It really zonks people let. Way more than say weed.

Andy From Sligo

always wary of the comments of 'its been tried in other countries and it didnt work' - its not a firm answer solution is it really, if it was tried out and be thought to be effective or making a change (even if it wasnt a complete solution) then even if it failed at least we can say 'its been trialled *in this country* , but alas it failed' is much better solution in my opinion

Andy From Sligo

might have been watching too many films (like trainspotting lol) and soaps but if you have a loved one and you want to try and get them off drugs you *lock them up in a room* , get them away from suppliers and try and break the cycle , you let them ride it out and hope that after they get over the cold turkey bit their head is clearer and vow that they will never go back to doing drugs again (in an ideal world) - if we just carry on supplying them drugs (whether it will be medically specialised shoot up places/premises in towns and cities) your not really helping them to get off the gear your just shifting maybe the problems out of one area into another area

My name is URL

but if the problem was dealt with in a different way and the drug users were locked up in prison for using then the suppliers would have less people to supply to.

That's a pretty innocent and naive view.

Anyway, prisons are already at or over capacity. It's why people who commit violent assaults regularly get suspended sentences.

Unless you want to pay a **** load more taxes in order to fund the building of more prisons, and the costs involved in taking care of addicts in custody, then it's just a stupid pie in the sky idea.

ScumLord

melissak wrote: »

Many addicts are addicts that need for some reason to block out reality. If you can't go without your drug of choice for a few days you are an addict. Of you could take it or leave it you would not be an addict. I agree in part with legalisation and regulation, but not starting at the most harmful end of the spectrum. That is lunacy.

It's not as necessary for other drugs. Heroin is highly addictive. It's borderline impossible to take it recreationally, it's simply an addiction afflicting vulnerable members of our society. It needs that regulation and the state's focus more than any other drug. It's pointless with drugs like cannabis, MDMA, LSD, because they're just not that addictive. I'd say the majority of cocaine use is recreational, most users don't go on to become addicts.

When you say they will rise up through the drugs to heroin and then get help would you consider this good?, maybe I am misunderstanding you but I would prefer them to get help long before they started injecting heroin. Not a lot come back once they have gone there in my experience.

Why would I consider it good? You're the one who implies addicts will end up on heroin eventually. Ya, offer help to all addicts but with a regulated system where heroin addicts get free state heroin, they must get treatment. That's the price they pay for their drug.

kidneyfan

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/may/24/evvol-julie-chance-as-a-closeted-lesbian-in-dublin-life-wasnt-easy-then-i-found-heroin

People can change!

Andy From Sligo

not wishing to go off topic but as someone mentioned with valium ect , then yes if the medical leaflet or their doctors have said ' dont drive or operate machinery or drink alcohol with these drugs' then yes maybe they too should be classed as breaking the law and should face the penalties?

melissak

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

not wishing to go off topic but as someone mentioned with valium ect , then yes if the medical leaflet or their doctors have said ' dont drive or operate machinery or drink alcohol with these drugs' then yes maybe they too should be classed as breaking the law and should face the penalties?

I'm sure they would under the drug driving legislation. I would much rather be in a car with a stoner than someone zonked on valium. Obviously dosage would-be factor

Andy From Sligo

My name is URL wrote: »

That's a pretty innocent and naive view.

Anyway, prisons are already at or over capacity. It's why people who commit violent assaults regularly get suspended sentences.

Unless you want to pay a **** load more taxes in order to fund the building of more prisons, and the costs involved in taking care of addicts in custody, then it's just a stupid pie in the sky idea.

i am always at the view that there is no more room in prisons because of other factors , and i also believe you have to look at the current people in prisons and what they are in there for before talk of building more prisons. Are they prisoners in prison at the moment that are a danger to the general public if they were let out tomorrow or indeed transferred to an open prison or let out and tagged? - are there people in prison that are there only for a reason for their court case to come up? - are their prisoners who need their cases/sentence reviewed from when they did the crime and maybe shortened or scrapped?

melissak

ScumLord wrote: »

melissak wrote: »

Many addicts are addicts that need for some reason to block out reality. If you can't go without your drug of choice for a few days you are an addict. Of you could take it or leave it you would not be an addict. I agree in part with legalisation and regulation, but not starting at the most harmful end of the spectrum. That is lunacy.

It's not as necessary for other drugs. Heroin is highly addictive. It's borderline impossible to take it recreationally, it's simply an addiction afflicting vulnerable members of our society. It needs that regulation and the state's focus more than any other drug. It's pointless with drugs like cannabis, MDMA, LSD, because they're just not that addictive. I'd say the majority of cocaine use is recreational, most users don't go on to become addicts.

When you say they will rise up through the drugs to heroin and then get help would you consider this good?, maybe I am misunderstanding you but I would prefer them to get help long before they started injecting heroin. Not a lot come back once they have gone there in my experience.

Why would I consider it good? You're the one who implies addicts will end up on heroin eventually. Ya, offer help to all addicts but with a regulated system where heroin addicts get free state heroin, they must get treatment. That's the price they pay for their drug.

I didn't. I said for someone chronically addicted free heroin when other drugs are so expensive would be tempting. I have known people chronically addicted to alcohol, speed, prescription meds even weed to the point they cannot not have it and I have known people who can take or leave heroin. Not many mind but addiction is addiction. Have you ever seen a chronic alcoholic with withdrawals? Not that far off a heroin user sometimes

looking_around

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

might have been watching too many films (like trainspotting lol) and soaps but if you have a loved one and you want to try and get them off drugs you *lock them up in a room* , get them away from suppliers and try and break the cycle , you let them ride it out and hope that after they get over the cold turkey bit their head is clearer and vow that they will never go back to doing drugs again (in an ideal world) - if we just carry on supplying them drugs (whether it will be medically specialised shoot up places/premises in towns and cities) your not really helping them to get off the gear your just shifting maybe the problems out of one area into another area

Only, you can't force someone to sober up. The drug isn't the only thing causing the addiction. Addiction is often tied with depression and escapism. Cold turkey approach doesn't deal with why a person wants to spend all their time strung out.

melissak wrote: »

Can people really legally drive on vaLiam? I doubt it. It really zonks people let. Way more than say weed.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/completely-sober-drivers-who-smoked-cannabis-in-last-week-could-be-prosecuted-under-new-laws-711538.html

I can't find limits for Ireland, but the UK are criticised for their drug driving laws. They do people for impaired driving even a week after they used an illegal drug. Conversely their legal prescription drug limits are potentially high enough for the person to still be impaired.

It's not a fair system.

melissak

This seems to be a point that people are choosing to ignore. Why is it that so many young people from certain demographics look at the miserable existence of "junkies " and say that is my best option in life

LDN_Irish

melissak wrote: »

Can people really legally drive on vaLiam? I doubt it. It really zonks people let. Way more than say weed.

You can, yeah. The leaflet just says the usual "may cause drowsiness. If affected don't drive or operate etc." The half-life of valium is insanely long, up to 100 hours they reckon, so of you weren't allowed to drive after taking it you'd have to wait 100 hours to drive again.

ScumLord

melissak wrote: »

This seems to be a point that people are choosing to ignore. Why is it that so many young people from certain demographics look at the miserable existence of "junkies " and say that is my best option in life

They don't. They may end up advancing to heroin through other party drugs, or they end up in such despair that the numbness sounds appealing and the negative effects seem no worse than their normal life.

The terrible "education" we give young people around drugs means they don't trust the schools and parents. We tell them they'll end up on the streets, sucking dicks for drug money and there's no evidence of any of the negative effects they've been told are rampant.

Lyaiera

melissak wrote: »

This seems to be a point that people are choosing to ignore. Why is it that so many young people from certain demographics look at the miserable existence of "junkies " and say that is my best option in life

I've never once had drugs pushed on me. Every single drug I've taken I've willingly asked for. For me it was trying to escape what was happening to me.

The only thing I am or ever have been addicted to is nicotine. And I haven't done any big drugs.