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Guards deny innocent woman her malteasers

124

Comments

  • #152
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    It's not that impossible. If the guy in question has previous form for attacking or being volatile, or such an attack wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility, the guards family has been threathened and while the people the scumbag has identified may not exist, there has been a threat made and there probably is people that threat extends to. Ie, girlfriend, parents.
    Add your reply here.
    Someone said if he didn't have a family etc. Just hypothetically.


  • #153
    dodzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,113 ✭✭✭✭dodzy


    1:37 - just as the scummer is threatening the family of the guard, his aul man says "shurrup Bottle will ya!". You could not make this sh1t up.


  • #154
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Why do you start all your posts with "add your reply here."?
    He might not have a wife, he probably has a girlfriend.
    Just because there's no ring on her finger, does that mean she's fair game?


  • #155
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Why do you start all your posts with "add your reply here."?
    He might not have a wife, he probably has a girlfriend.
    Just because there's no ring on her finger, does that mean she's fair game?
    Add your reply here.
    I don't know, my phone is possessed.


  • #156
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    No need for violence, but if someone is going to act like an animal they need to treated like one. Spit masks, copious cable ties restrained belly down in the back of the squad. When they aren't executing people, the American cops have it fairly right.


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  • #157
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The section quoted requires that the victim "believes (the threat) will be carried out". The Judge has to consider the mind of the victim.

    That's not the wording. The legislation states that the intent is that the threat be believed.


  • #158
    AnMuinteoirOg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭AnMuinteoirOg


    5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence

    Section 5 of the Non-Fatal Offences against the Persons Act, 1997


  • #159
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ability to carry out the threat immediately, the proximity of time or geography, is one of the constituent elements of an assault,

    Where did ya get that? Theres no requirement for any of that in the act.

    If someone makes a threat and they are criminals who do or have or are in the process of being violent, its reasonable to take the threat with some degree of belief, Gardai do get followed home, their homes and cars do get attacked, their wives / etc do get approached


  • #160
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    esforum wrote: »
    Where did ya get that? Theres no requirement for any of that in the act...

    It is a fundamental aspect of assault that the person believes s/he is likely to be immediately subjected to force. Section 2(1)(b)...

    www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/2/enacted/en/html


  • #161
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    esforum wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ability to carry out the threat immediately, the proximity of time or geography, is one of the constituent elements of an assault,

    Where did ya get that? Theres no requirement for any of that in the act.

    If someone makes a threat and they are criminals who do or have or are in the process of being violent, its reasonable to take the threat with some degree of belief, Gardai do get followed home, their homes and cars do get attacked, their wives / etc do get approached
    Add your reply here.
    Does that happen often?


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  • #162
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    melissak wrote: »
    Add your reply here.
    Does that happen often?

    Often enough it should be taken more seriously.


  • #163
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    kupus wrote: »
    he wont, he'll be a raging cnut for everybody around him till the day he drops dead from a heart attack.

    welcome to liberal ireland where fookdogs like this scummer is laughing all the way to his dole money that you provide him with.

    And no amount of courses and all that boll0x is going to save him and the others around him.

    Imagine what his kids are going to be like..... just remember its your kids that will be meeting his. While you congratulate yourself on how you raised your liberal child to be a person thats tolerant and and all those other other warm fuzzy words youre proud of,
    this guys kids will be shooting your kid in the back.

    thats evolution.
    Strange then, that so many of the worlds safest countries are also among the most liberal.


  • #164
    InReality
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    That has genuinely shocked me. I knew i was pretty naive about what real scum were like, but the hatred in his voice and overall weirdness was scary.


  • #165
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Strange then, that so many of the worlds safest countries are also among the most liberal.

    thats like saying that gyms are bad for your weight cause they are full of fat people

    Where are these nations? I am sure you are right in many regards but so too are many nations not so liberal relatively safe


  • #166
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    InReality wrote: »
    That has genuinely shocked me. I knew i was pretty naive about what real scum were like, but the hatred in his voice and overall weirdness was scary.

    Real scum are just real scum, and while I might argue that you can't be prosecuted for just being a scumbag, I do think there is something to be said for trusting a police force enough to allow them to draw a baton every now and again and crack the head off a scumbag. In this country, sadly, that was abused by Gardai to draw confessions out of people in very serious cases in the 70s and 80s with the result that now we do not tolerate it at all. But every now and again, as in a situation like this, you'd think it just might be justified.


  • #167
    kupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Strange then, that so many of the worlds safest countries are also among the most liberal.


    Just because you hear on pravda rte that ireland is safe doesnt mean its so.

    I worked in some neighbourhoods that make the worst irish one look like eurodisney. never had any bother barr once or twice.. maybe three.
    on the other hand I can walk down any town centre in ireland and get aggro anytime I want, day or night.

    If you consider yourself liberal I would ask you to instead of opening your mind.... Ill ask you to instead open your eyes.

    countries from what I have noticed in my years have a habit of bigging themselves up thru their national mouthpiece, be it radio or newspaper.

    As far as im concerned if someguy in front of me was patting himself on the back every time he got a question right...id think he was an idiot.
    Same goes for a country. If Ireland keeps patting itself on the back for getting a question right, id think its an idiot. Id have more respect for it, if it asked the hard questions instead of answering the easy starter questions.


  • #168
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    kupus wrote: »
    Just because you hear on pravda rte that ireland is safe doesnt mean its so.

    I worked in some neighbourhoods that make the worst irish one look like eurodisney. never had any bother barr once or twice.. maybe three.
    on the other hand I can walk down any town centre in ireland and get aggro anytime I want, day or night.

    If you consider yourself liberal I would ask you to instead of opening your mind.... Ill ask you to instead open your eyes.

    countries from what I have noticed in my years have a habit of bigging themselves up thru their national mouthpiece, be it radio or newspaper.

    As far as im concerned if someguy in front of me was patting himself on the back every time he got a question right...id think he was an idiot.
    Same goes for a country. If Ireland keeps patting itself on the back for getting a question right, id think its an idiot. Id have more respect for it, if it asked the hard questions instead of answering the easy starter questions.
    Good thinking.


  • #169
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,326 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    This summer would probably shout "police brutally" if he was touched


  • #170
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Real scum are just real scum, and while I might argue that you can't be prosecuted for just being a scumbag, I do think there is something to be said for trusting a police force enough to allow them to draw a baton every now and again and crack the head off a scumbag. In this country, sadly, that was abused by Gardai to draw confessions out of people in very serious cases in the 70s and 80s with the result that now we do not tolerate it at all. But every now and again, as in a situation like this, you'd think it just might be justified.
    Pity the same treatment isn't applied to our corrupt politicians/bankers et al...

    Suited & booted, marbles in the mouth scumbags at the other end of the spectrum, after all, real scum are just real scum.


  • #171
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    Pity the same treatment isn't applied to our corrupt politicians/bankers et al...

    Suited & booted, marbles in the mouth scumbags at the other end of the spectrum, after all, real scum are just real scum.

    Never heard of a politician threatening a guards family.

    Have you?


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  • #172
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    kupus wrote: »
    Just because you hear on pravda rte that ireland is safe doesnt mean its so.

    I worked in some neighbourhoods that make the worst irish one look like eurodisney. never had any bother barr once or twice.. maybe three.
    on the other hand I can walk down any town centre in ireland and get aggro anytime I want, day or night.

    If you consider yourself liberal I would ask you to instead of opening your mind.... Ill ask you to instead open your eyes.

    countries from what I have noticed in my years have a habit of bigging themselves up thru their national mouthpiece, be it radio or newspaper.

    As far as im concerned if someguy in front of me was patting himself on the back every time he got a question right...id think he was an idiot.
    Same goes for a country. If Ireland keeps patting itself on the back for getting a question right, id think its an idiot. Id have more respect for it, if it asked the hard questions instead of answering the easy starter questions.

    I must have led a very sheltered life. I have never encountered any aggression in any town in Ireland during the day and only rarely during the night.


  • #173
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    ANY town centre would seem to be kinda hyberbolic which rather detracts from your argument. I've walked across Cork city at night alone (including through the nearer northside) multiple times as a young female and not had an issue. On the other hand, I got shoved over and had a lewd comment made to me by a gang of older men in the tiny country town of Kenmare, Co. Kerry. Don't ask me what that proves. Just that anywhere can have assholes and in general, our cities aren't as bad as you're making out.


  • #174
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    Allinall wrote: »
    Never heard of a politician threatening a guards family.

    Have you?
    No actually, thank you for your input :rolleyes: :P


  • #175
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭flutered


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Real scum are just real scum, and while I might argue that you can't be prosecuted for just being a scumbag, I do think there is something to be said for trusting a police force enough to allow them to draw a baton every now and again and crack the head off a scumbag. In this country, sadly, that was abused by Gardai to draw confessions out of people in very serious cases in the 70s and 80s with the result that now we do not tolerate it at all. But every now and again, as in a situation like this, you'd think it just might be justified.
    some of the serious cases you mention were not serious, many the young man had his ribs busted on a gards suspision


  • #176
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭flutered


    cowboyBuilder wrote: »
    Yep, and Sinn Fein would be defending the "victim" here - poor guy was only buying a box of maltesers.

    Some areas of dublin, they should just sterilise them via the water supply.
    it could well be joe costelloe of the liebour/stickie/dissos who would be defending them


  • #177
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    He deserves a good hiding when he gets in to the cell, DON'T DENY HIM!!


  • #178
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭flutered


    melissak wrote: »
    No way that would fly if the guard doesn't have a wife /family. The victim has to believe the danger, which he couldn't if they were fictional.
    that stuff was being sprouted by the limerick criminals back in the day, they even went as far as to ring the cops houses, outside cops had to be brought in to deal with it


  • #179
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    cowboyBuilder wrote: »
    Some areas of dublin, they should just sterilise them via the water supply.
    & that's how it starts...



    PS Godwin before any fucker mentions it :p


  • #180
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    & that's how it starts...

    doubt it, more a group like "tallaght says no" paint it on their signs in protest of paying water charges and stand on o'connell street


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  • #181
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 12,020 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Vallorrous wrote: »
    Golden rule for arrest I thought was to keep your mouth shut. You don't answer questions, you don't incriminate yourself, just hand over your licence and insurance documents if asked. I really think that's just common sense.

    Or go out gracefully like this guy:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEsZkTTgydc


  • #182
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Or go out gracefully like this guy
    :pac::pac::pac:


  • #183
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    kupus wrote: »
    Just because you hear on pravda rte that ireland is safe doesnt mean its so.

    I worked in some neighbourhoods that make the worst irish one look like eurodisney. never had any bother barr once or twice.. maybe three.
    on the other hand I can walk down any town centre in ireland and get aggro anytime I want, day or night.

    If you consider yourself liberal I would ask you to instead of opening your mind.... Ill ask you to instead open your eyes.

    countries from what I have noticed in my years have a habit of bigging themselves up thru their national mouthpiece, be it radio or newspaper.

    As far as im concerned if someguy in front of me was patting himself on the back every time he got a question right...id think he was an idiot.
    Same goes for a country. If Ireland keeps patting itself on the back for getting a question right, id think its an idiot. Id have more respect for it, if it asked the hard questions instead of answering the easy starter questions.

    I wasn't even referring to Ireland and your post really does absolutely nothing to address my point. Many of the safes places in the world are dry liberal, which flies in the face if the point I was responding to.


  • #184
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    galljga1 wrote: »
    I must have led a very sheltered life. I have never encountered any aggression in any town in Ireland during the day and only rarely during the night.

    To be fair he said any time he wants. If I wanted, I could get some aggro from roaring at people and attacking them to get a response. So in that reality his statement makes sense (except it would also apply to about every other city in the world).


  • #185
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    & that's how it starts...



    PS Godwin before any fucker mentions it :p
    Going way off topic here but its amazing how "Camp" the Nazis were .

    Men saluting with erect appendages given the tiny-iest opportunity.

    And then the fancy suits and boots

    Was Hitlers book called "Mien Camp"

    Takes all sorts I suppose.

    A bit of flogging and whipping wouldn't do that toe-rag any harm I suppose.

    Is there ever a Nazi around these days when you need one ?


  • #186
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I wasn't even referring to Ireland and your post really does absolutely nothing to address my point. Many of the safes places in the world are dry liberal, which flies in the face if the point I was responding to.

    Yes but keep in mind that correlation != causation
    Are the worlds safest places so safe because they are liberal, or are they liberal because they're safe?

    My opinion is that the latter is true, liberal policies and ideas can only be allowed to prosper once safety is not a major concern - safety which is often earned through conservative policies and ideas.


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  • #187
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Many of the safes places in the world are dry liberal, which flies in the face if the point I was responding to.

    I asked already but which places?

    Many places such as Japan, China, Cuba are pretty safe but are hardly liberal.

    the savage doesnt get tamed with hugs and kisses and personally O dont doubt for one minute that society is only a few meals away from collapse


  • #188
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    esforum wrote: »
    I asked already but which places?

    Many places such as Japan, China, Cuba are pretty safe but are hardly liberal.

    the savage doesnt get tamed with hugs and kisses and personally O dont doubt for one minute that society is only a few meals away from collapse

    Actually, you will find that the Global Peace Index ranks the 15 safest countries as Denmark, Austria, NZ, Switzerland, Finland, Canada, Japan, Belgium, Norway, Czech, Sweden, Ireland, Slovenia, Iceland and Australia. All of these are progressive countries, Japan included, with every single one ranking in the top 22 of the Social Progess Index.

    'The savage' does get tamed through progession, by the way. It's basically what we've been doing throughout our entire history as a species. If you think 'liberalism = hugs and kisses and thats it' you really should broaden your knowledge in general.


  • #189
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Actually, you will find that the Global Peace Index ranks the 15 safest countries as Denmark, Austria, NZ, Switzerland, Finland, Canada, Japan, Belgium, Norway, Czech, Sweden, Ireland, Slovenia, Iceland and Australia. All of these are progressive countries, Japan included, with every single one ranking in the top 22 of the Social Progess Index.

    Who said progressive? The word is 'liberal'. Liberal is the word and liberal shall remain the word thats being challenged thanks very much.

    I wouldnt consider a number of them too be particularily liberal however you have still completely 100% missed the comments made.

    Which comes first, the egg or the chicken? Are they safe because they are liberal or did being safe allow them to become liberal was the question raised.


  • #190
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Actually, you will find that the Global Peace Index ranks the 15 safest countries as Denmark, Austria, NZ, Switzerland, Finland, Canada, Japan, Belgium, Norway, Czech, Sweden, Ireland, Slovenia, Iceland and Australia. All of these are progressive countries, Japan included, with every single one ranking in the top 22 of the Social Progess Index.

    Just how recent did the Global Peace Index rank the 15 safest countries?
    As I think a few may have slid down the rankings in recent times


  • #191
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    esforum wrote: »
    Who said progressive? The word is 'liberal'. Liberal is the word and liberal shall remain the word thats being challenged thanks very much.

    I wouldnt consider a number of them too be particularily liberal however you have still completely 100% missed the comments made.

    Which comes first, the egg or the chicken? Are they safe because they are liberal or did being safe allow them to become liberal was the question raised.
    [lib-er-uh l, lib-ruh l]
    Spell Syllables
    Synonyms Examples Word Origin
    See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
    adjective
    1.
    favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
    2.
    (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.





    You have not given any of the countries listed that you would see as not being liberal, and have not given any reasons either. If they had to be safe before adopting any liberal policies, then why are there so few non-liberal countries nearing the top, and thus able to take on liberal policies now? Why is the bottom of the GPI made up so strongly of the least liberal countries in the world? Would you agree with kupus, who is seemingly convinced that liberal countries = dangerous countries?

    EDIT TO ADD: I'm not saying that liberal = safety by default, just to clarify. I am saying that liberal = dangerous (as kupus seemed to be claiming) is incredibly incorrect.


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  • #192
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Just how recent did the Global Peace Index rank the 15 safest countries?
    As I think a few may have slid down the rankings in recent times
    June, 2014.

    I also found June 2015's release, all the same except for Norway slipping to #17 while Portugal (#18 in the progressive list) took their place in the top 15.


  • #193
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,315 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    flutered wrote: »
    that stuff was being sprouted by the limerick criminals back in the day, they even went as far as to ring the cops houses, outside cops had to be brought in to deal with it
    It's been around for a long time. A friends uncle was posted polaroids of his wife and children doing the weekly shopping back in the 80's.

    Whatever the law is now, it needs to change if scumbags like this aren't being handed heavy sentences.

    We can either allow the Gardaí free reign to dish out retribution when they're attacked or threatened, ask them to use restraint and follow up with strong sentencing for *ANY* threat or harm done to the person or family of our Gardai or we can allow scumbags to have no fear of an impotent police force.

    Any actual harm done to a member of AGS should be extremely heavily punished IMO. I'd be in favour of 5 year sentences for taking a swing at a Guard and lifetime imprisonment for their murder / manslaughter.


  • #194
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Billy86 wrote: »
    [lib-er-uh l, lib-ruh l]
    Spell Syllables
    Synonyms Examples Word Origin
    See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
    adjective
    1.
    favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
    2.
    (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

    You have not given any of the countries listed that you would see as not being liberal, and have not given any reasons either. If they had to be safe before adopting any liberal policies, then why are there so few non-liberal countries nearing the top, and thus able to take on liberal policies now? Why is the bottom of the GPI made up so strongly of the least liberal countries in the world? Would you agree with kupus, who is seemingly convinced that liberal countries = dangerous countries?

    EDIT TO ADD: I'm not saying that liberal = safety by default, just to clarify. I am saying that liberal = dangerous (as kupus seemed to be claiming) is incredibly incorrect.

    a word being in the explanation of another does not make them the same.

    Japan is not liberal in my sense of the word and I dont think it would be for many people. Australia? Not especially. Ireland? Yes I would agree that overall we are pretty liberal. Swiss? No, they really arent and manu aspects of their society the Irish would consider very restrictive. Czech? Well I suppose in their modern outlook yes but at present they are pretty central government wise and woulddnt have been until recent times. Cant remember the rest. Safe countries that are not liberal? Well Cuba is pretty safe, so is Japan which is not liberal its very conserative, Germany as well. But then define safe?

    And I think you are taking both myself and Kupus up wrong and creating an arguement where none exists. Neither of us claimed either, we are merely exploring the possibilities as to if liberal leads to safe or vice versa.

    Kupus is suggesting that liberal follows safe because most countries would have been conservative to begin with. Look at Ireland, could you seriously suggest we have always been liberal? I couldnt

    I think theres a middle ground in that we can try and be liberal but have to weigh it against other requirements and issues. I would certainly suggest that we should keep open minds on subjects but by the same token, not lose sight of the present circumstances


  • #195
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    esforum wrote: »
    a word being in the explanation of another does not make them the same.

    Japan is not liberal in my sense of the word and I dont think it would be for many people. Australia? Not especially. Ireland? Yes I would agree that overall we are pretty liberal. Swiss? No, they really arent and manu aspects of their society the Irish would consider very restrictive. Czech? Well I suppose in their modern outlook yes but at present they are pretty central government wise and woulddnt have been until recent times. Cant remember the rest. Safe countries that are not liberal? Well Cuba is pretty safe, so is Japan which is not liberal its very conserative, Germany as well. But then define safe?

    And I think you are taking both myself and Kupus up wrong and creating an arguement where none exists. Neither of us claimed either, we are merely exploring the possibilities as to if liberal leads to safe or vice versa.

    Kupus is suggesting that liberal follows safe because most countries would have been conservative to begin with. Look at Ireland, could you seriously suggest we have always been liberal? I couldnt

    I think theres a middle ground in that we can try and be liberal but have to weigh it against other requirements and issues. I would certainly suggest that we should keep open minds on subjects but by the same token, not lose sight of the present circumstances
    Progressiveness is central to liberalism, hence why is shows up in the definition of liberal and liberalism shows up in the definition of it.
    pro·gres·sive
    prəˈɡresiv/
    adjective
    adjective: progressive
    1.
    happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step.
    "a progressive decline in popularity"
    synonyms: continuing, continuous, increasing, growing, developing, ongoing, accelerating, escalating; More
    (of a disease or ailment) increasing in severity or extent.
    "progressive liver failure"
    (of taxation or a tax) increasing as a proportion of the sum taxed as that sum increases.
    "steeply progressive income taxes"
    (of a card game or dance) involving a series of sections for which participants successively change place or relative position.
    archaic
    engaging in or constituting forward motion.
    2.
    (of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
    "a relatively progressive governor"
    favoring or promoting change or innovation.
    "a progressive art school"
    synonyms: modern, liberal, advanced, forward-thinking, enlightened, enterprising, innovative, pioneering, dynamic, bold, avant-garde, reforming, reformist, radical; informalgo-ahead
    "progressive views"
    antonyms: conservative, reactionary
    relating to or denoting a style of rock music popular especially in the 1980s and characterized by classical influences, the use of keyboard instruments, and lengthy compositions.

    Kupus' post is stating that liberalism will lead to increases in crime and murder. I'm not sure if you have read his post, because at no point does he mention anything about about liberalism following safety. His point is basically "if you raise your children to be liberal they will be shot" - yet this flies in the fact of the fact that liberal countries are typically safer, something which you yourself would seem to agree with.


  • #196
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    esforum wrote: »
    I think theres a middle ground in that we can try and be liberal but have to weigh it against other requirements and issues. I would certainly suggest that we should keep open minds on subjects but by the same token, not lose sight of the present circumstances

    and your reply is
    Billy86 wrote: »
    His point is basically "if you raise your children to be liberal they will be shot" - yet this flies in the fact of the fact that liberal countries are typically safer, something which you yourself would seem to agree with.

    so theres really no point in trying to discuss it with you


  • #197
    trashcan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What has the title got to do with the video? Malteasers? Have I finally gone crazy?

    It's the new Maltesers ad campaign. :D


  • #198
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    esforum wrote: »
    and your reply is



    so theres really no point in trying to discuss it with you
    No, actually, your post did not simply state "" , your full post stated:
    a word being in the explanation of another does not make them the same.

    Japan is not liberal in my sense of the word and I dont think it would be for many people. Australia? Not especially. Ireland? Yes I would agree that overall we are pretty liberal. Swiss? No, they really arent and manu aspects of their society the Irish would consider very restrictive. Czech? Well I suppose in their modern outlook yes but at present they are pretty central government wise and woulddnt have been until recent times. Cant remember the rest. Safe countries that are not liberal? Well Cuba is pretty safe, so is Japan which is not liberal its very conserative, Germany as well. But then define safe?

    And I think you are taking both myself and Kupus up wrong and creating an arguement where none exists. Neither of us claimed either, we are merely exploring the possibilities as to if liberal leads to safe or vice versa.

    Kupus is suggesting that liberal follows safe because most countries would have been conservative to begin with. Look at Ireland, could you seriously suggest we have always been liberal? I couldnt

    I think theres a middle ground in that we can try and be liberal but have to weigh it against other requirements and issues. I would certainly suggest that we should keep open minds on subjects but by the same token, not lose sight of the present circumstances

    It's disingenuous to claim you only stated 20% of what you actually stated, completely leaving out the part that you know full well I was responding to. I never disagreed with the one snippet of your own post that you decided to leave in.

    I'll just copy and paste his post for you here.
    kupus wrote: »
    he wont, he'll be a raging cnut for everybody around him till the day he drops dead from a heart attack.

    welcome to liberal ireland where fookdogs like this scummer is laughing all the way to his dole money that you provide him with.

    And no amount of courses and all that boll0x is going to save him and the others around him.

    Imagine what his kids are going to be like..... just remember its your kids that will be meeting his. While you congratulate yourself on how you raised your liberal child to be a person thats tolerant and and all those other other warm fuzzy words youre proud of,
    this guys kids will be shooting your kid in the back.

    thats evolution.

    Clearly, that is not what he was stating in any way, shape or form. Was it something in his one other post on this thread that you might have been referring to?
    kupus wrote: »
    Just because you hear on pravda rte that ireland is safe doesnt mean its so.

    I worked in some neighbourhoods that make the worst irish one look like eurodisney. never had any bother barr once or twice.. maybe three.
    on the other hand I can walk down any town centre in ireland and get aggro anytime I want, day or night.

    If you consider yourself liberal I would ask you to instead of opening your mind.... Ill ask you to instead open your eyes.

    countries from what I have noticed in my years have a habit of bigging themselves up thru their national mouthpiece, be it radio or newspaper.

    As far as im concerned if someguy in front of me was patting himself on the back every time he got a question right...id think he was an idiot.
    Same goes for a country. If Ireland keeps patting itself on the back for getting a question right, id think its an idiot. Id have more respect for it, if it asked the hard questions instead of answering the easy starter questions.


  • #199
    kupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    Im equating the rise of liberalism to the rise of more frequent and serious crime
    More understanding of scummers... the hangers on of the justice industry and dont kid yourself, its an industry, with plenty of finance paid for by your taxes have even less understanding now, and no amount of 3rd level degrees to say that you do will make any difference.

    understanding pah, when i hear that i want to tear my ears out.
    Understand this, when you raise a feral kid with no boundries, that kid is a lost cause.

    For a long time people used to use their fists to settle arguments, then it was bottles glasses, then knives, now its guns.
    Its no great stretch of the imagination to say when fionn goes out 20 years from now to enjoy a pint for himself, some kid that knows no boundries will come behind him and shoot him for his wallet.

    Billy you see it as fearmongering.... I see it as evolution.


  • #200
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    kupus wrote: »
    Im equating the rise of liberalism to the rise of more frequent and serious crime
    Again, the fact that the safest countries in the world are almost entirely liberal really flies in the face of this.
    More understanding of scummers... the hangers on of the justice industry and dont kid yourself, its an industry, with plenty of finance paid for by your taxes have even less understanding now, and no amount of 3rd level degrees to say that you do will make any difference.
    This sentence doesn't even make sense. So by becoming better educated on law, people's understanding of law gets worse? Do people have a better understanding of 'scummers' because they are less educated in law? Or because they are less liberal? Does having a worse understanding of 'scummers' make them more or less effective? Or does being liberal make them 'more understanding of scummers' and does this make them better or worse at their jobs?
    understanding pah, when i hear that i want to tear my ears out.
    Understand this, when you raise a feral kid with no boundries, that kid is a lost cause.
    Good thing that liberal people are more likely to advocate for mental health awareness and treatment then, otherwise we'd still be chucking the disabled away to be forgotten about, and leaving others to roam the streets with no help from society.
    For a long time people used to use their fists to settle arguments, then it was bottles glasses, then knives, now its guns.
    I hate to break this to you, but guns have existed for longer than you seem to think. Just this year we're celebrating the time a bunch of a lads took guns to the GPO, resulting in the deaths of nearly 500 people including many innocent civilians.
    Its no great stretch of the imagination to say when fionn goes out 20 years from now to enjoy a pint for himself, some kid that knows no boundries will come behind him and shoot him for his wallet.
    Can you show some statistical evidence that crime is higher in liberal countries than non liberal ones?
    Billy you see it as fearmongering.... I see it as evolution.
    See what as fearmongering, that your view is completely at odds with reality? Can you explain why most of the safest countries in the world are liberal, or no?


  • #201
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    In fairness I think he means that you don't see the social effects of boundryless parenting until the next generation and to teach your child that everyone plays fair in this best of all possible liberal world's may be setting them up to be some more unscrupulous kid's mug.


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