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Match Thread: Leinster A V Edinburgh 19:35 TG4/BBC Alba, 15/04/16

123578

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    .ak wrote: »
    For me his head snaps back because of the impact and because mcfadden's shoulders ride up, whatever about not wrapping his arms it's not high, he hits him below the shoulders on impact.

    383367.png

    Watching in slow-mo, the first point of impact is McFadden's head into the Edinburgh player's chest, just marginally before his right shoulder makes contact with his chin. McFadden's shoulder never makes contact with any part of the body below the shoulder before connecting with his chin. If tackling with the head is legal then it's a legal tackle, but otherwise that's a reckless/dangerous tackle all day long


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    It looked very bad on first viewing, not quite as bad in the replays (but still reckless/careless) - warranted at least a yellow for me, wouldn't have been surprised with red

    Either way Ferg's rush of blood could cost us (Munster) at the end of the season 'cos it gave them a losing bonus point :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭nehe milner skudder


    People were saying alesana tuilagi was rightly cited for running into a bloke in World Cup . Same people are falling over themselves to defend oul Fergus from down the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Last post on it but this is the moment of impact. If people reckon he isn't connecting above the shoulder with neck or head at this instant, fair enough.

    McFadd_zpsbu9swenq.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Watching in slow-mo, the first point of impact is McFadden's head into the Edinburgh player's chest, just marginally before his right shoulder makes contact with his chin. McFadden's shoulder never makes contact with any part of the body below the shoulder before connecting with his chin. If tackling with the head is legal then it's a legal tackle, but otherwise that's a reckless/dangerous tackle all day long
    And look how low the Embra winger has gone. If that's not the impact point, he's lowered himself substantially from where McFadden committed to the tackle.

    I thought it was a bloody brave tackle to make considering the speed the winger was going and the obvious impact it would have had. How anybody could be expected to micromanage their position with both of them moving so fast. The guy has dropped a foot at least from his running stance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Aki makes that tackle on anyone and Connacht fans blow their load. SOB makes that tackle on McCaw and every Irish man cheers. Nothing wrong with it. But it's McFadden and he is hated by a lot of people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Buer wrote: »
    Last post on it but this is the moment of impact. If people reckon he isn't connecting above the shoulder with neck or head at this instant, fair enough.

    McFadd_zpsbu9swenq.jpg
    Ferg has three arms in that shot. Very bad photoshop job by the beeb there. You'd think after the Jimmy Saville scandal they'd be more careful what they show on telly. :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Of course a tackler starts lower in order to power into contact, thats the technique!

    I think the main problem here is that there are always awkward looking tackles when smaller guys duck or crouch just before being tackled. It's a natural way of protecting yourself. The problem is that your head is now where your chest was 1 second previously and so there is an increased chance that this is where you'll get hit. Should we ban people from tackling crouching/ducking players for fear of a slightly high tackle?



    Lunging upwards after starting low is the issue. He clearly hits above the shoulder and there isn't a wrap. That's illegal not awkward.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    People were saying alesana tuilagi was rightly cited for running into a bloke in World Cup . Same people are falling over themselves to defend oul Fergus from down the road.

    Hold on! I said the Tualagi call was BS and I'm defending McFadden.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Aki makes that tackle on anyone and Connacht fans blow their load. SOB makes that tackle on McCaw and every Irish man cheers. Nothing wrong with it. But it's McFadden and he is hated by a lot of people.

    Total overreaction but you have your wish, I'm done with the matter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    People were saying alesana tuilagi was rightly cited for running into a bloke in World Cup . Same people are falling over themselves to defend oul Fergus from down the road.
    phog wrote: »
    Lunging upwards after starting low is the issue. He clearly hits above the shoulder and there isn't a wrap. That's illegal not awkward.
    tumblr_lgr2bm2sW31qh6ev8o1_540.jpg

    :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    For me that last try saving tackle looked worse than it was. The Edinburgh guy got back up immediately and kept playing. A fact not recognised in this discussion. The Leinster guy was slightly more worse for wear in that tackle. It looked horrible but on the replay it was a normal tackle. When England was playing Ireland a few months back Mike Brown was kicking Conor Murray and nothing came of it and the same with the French match the tackles were as fierce as that tackle. I say again a great try saving tackle by McFadden


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭LostArt


    So yeah, unexpected bonus point win despite an awful first half. Home semi all but guaranteed and we've remembered how to maul semi competently, I'm delighted!


  • Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭Sean Kinsella


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    For me that last try saving tackle looked worse than it was. The Edinburgh guy got back up immediately and kept playing. A fact not recognised in this discussion. The Leinster guy was slightly more worse for wear in that tackle. It looked horrible but on the replay it was a normal tackle. When England was playing Ireland a few months back Mike Brown was kicking Conor Murray and nothing came of it and the same with the French match the tackles were as fierce as that tackle. I say again a great try saving tackle by McFadden

    It certainly saved a try: I'm still not sure it was legal and it just looked worse in slow-motion. I'm saying this as a Leinster fan and frankly, we'll take the points and bank them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    So am I good to see Leinster rewarded with this great showing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    LostArt wrote: »
    So yeah, unexpected bonus point win despite an awful first half. Home semi all but guaranteed and we've remembered how to maul semi competently, I'm delighted!
    Yeah, lots of positives from that match. We were able to switch it up and play a fast attacking game and made tons of yards. 440 metres run; Luke with the most at 69 metres from 6 carries. That ordinary Rob Kearney bloke made two clean breaks and beat seven defenders. Luke made three clean breaks.

    The bonus point was an added... ehhh... bonus :), though I suspect our Munster friends won't be too happy that Embra got a LBP.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    So am I good to see Leinster rewarded with this great showing.
    great showing? in whose eyes exactly. leinster should be embarrassed with the wealth of talent that apparently they possess. And yet they struggle to play a decent rugby game. Unless their wealth of talent is not what it is made out to be. at least the kearney toh issue was put to bed tonight


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    great showing? in whose eyes exactly. leinster should be embarrassed with the wealth of talent that apparently they possess that they struggle to play a decent rugby game. unless their wealth of talent is not what it is made out to be. at least the kearney toh issue was put to bed tonight
    It was put to bed on New Year's day. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Aki makes that tackle on anyone and Connacht fans blow their load. SOB makes that tackle on McCaw and every Irish man cheers. Nothing wrong with it. But it's McFadden and he is hated by a lot of people.

    Fine margins. Had he managed to wrap his arms he'd have absolutely sinked him into the dirt and I think we'd all be applauding it. As it is I think his technique was a bit lazy and he ended up injuring himself as a result.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    great showing? in whose eyes exactly. leinster should be embarrassed with the wealth of talent that apparently they possess that they struggle to play a decent rugby game. unless their wealth of talent is not what it is made out to be. at least the kearney toh issue was put to bed tonight

    Struggled to the top of the table. Defence is a huge part of the game whether you agree ir not. First half was good to a point but individual errors hurt. 40-65 was excellent. Some sloppy defending gave embra a foothold. Huge pressure on connacht tmrw now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    great showing? in whose eyes exactly. leinster should be embarrassed with the wealth of talent that apparently they possess. And yet they struggle to play a decent rugby game. Unless their wealth of talent is not what it is made out to be. at least the kearney toh issue was put to bed tonight

    You're adding nothing to this conversation. Why are you looking to dismiss EVERYTHING Leinster does currently? No need to answer. Don't post in this thread again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    neelia11 wrote: »
    Struggled to the top of the table. Defence is a huge part of the game whether you agree ir not. First half was good to a point but individual errors hurt. 40-65 was excellent. Some sloppy defending gave embra a foothold. Huge pressure on connacht tmrw now.
    I suppose it's a must win game for both provinces for vastly different reasons.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    .ak wrote: »
    Fine margins. Had he managed to wrap his arms he'd have absolutely sinked him into the dirt and I think we'd all be applauding it. As it is I think his technique was a bit lazy and he ended up injuring himself as a result.

    I don't think his technique is lazy, I think he goes in far too aggressively sometimes but his technique isn't good enough to do so legally. He's had a couple of yellows just in the last couple of months for similar IIRC. Should just concentrate on making a legal tackle and bringing the player to ground rather than trying to knock him back 5 metres.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    neelia11 wrote: »
    Struggled to the top of the table. Defence is a huge part of the game whether you agree ir not. First half was good to a point but individual errors hurt. 40-65 was excellent. Some sloppy defending gave embra a foothold. Huge pressure on connacht tmrw now.

    Pressure's for tyres. Connacht players well able to handle the importance of the game ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Zzippy wrote: »
    I don't think his technique is lazy, I think he goes in far too aggressively sometimes but his technique isn't good enough to do so legally. He's had a couple of yellows just in the last couple of months for similar IIRC. Should just concentrate on making a legal tackle and bringing the player to ground rather than trying to knock him back 5 metres.

    Yeah I agree. He had a very similar tackle not too long ago in the same part of the pitch.

    I think we're arguing over semantics btw. Generally in our club we refer to players who don't get low in the tackle as lazy tacklers. Only the big lads get away with soak tackling or high upright tackles. It takes a lot more work to get down low and make a good clear tackle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    having been at that game and soaked to the skin before i went back west what happened was a typical leinster performance. squeeze the life out of anything that is potentially good and be proud of it. strangely as the season has progressed even the most hardened leinster fans are less proud. there is nothing there to see. just a big bunch of lads showing muscle.


    And connacht did what exactly that day? Leinster did what they needed to do to get the win in horrible conditions. Leinster have had a season full of disruptions. Pat Lam is on year three at connacht. Leo is in his first year as a coach so deserves to be given time and especially after he had no pre season with his squad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Zzippy wrote: »
    I don't think his technique is lazy, I think he goes in far too aggressively sometimes but his technique isn't good enough to do so legally. He's had a couple of yellows just in the last couple of months for similar IIRC. Should just concentrate on making a legal tackle and bringing the player to ground rather than trying to knock him back 5 metres.
    McFadden's last yellow card was considered harsh by pretty much everyone. Now it's a stick to beat him with?

    Of the others, one was for a stamp on Nathan White which was well deserved, and the other was for an illegal clear out of a ruck, but they were not at all similar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    neelia11 wrote: »
    And connacht did what exactly that day? Leinster did what they needed to do to get the win in horrible conditions. Leinster have had a season full of disruptions. Pat Lam is on year three at connacht. Leo is in his first year as a coach so deserves to be given time and especially after he had no pre season with his squad.

    First, no need to reply as the poster cannot reply to you here, second, let's try and keep the discussion on the game tonight.

    That goes for everyone. Apart from Zzippy who doesn't realise it yet but I've been bookmarking all his bragging posts for the end of the season. Keep them coming Zzippy...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,427 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Murphy was poor again.

    Not been good since the World Cup.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    .ak wrote: »
    You're adding nothing to this conversation. Why are you looking to dismiss EVERYTHING Leinster does currently? No need to answer. Don't post in this thread again.
    in what way am i not adding/subtracting from the conversation. i provide an opinion. it may not be what you agree with but it is what i see


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    in what way am i not adding/subtracting from the conversation. i provide an opinion. it may not be what you agree with but it is what i see

    Don't question mod decisions on thread. You're around here long enough to know that. Don't post in this thread again or you'll be taking a break from the forum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    at least the kearney toh issue was put to bed tonight

    I agree. Kearney is clearly better than TOH. Thanks for finally seeing sense :D

    Sorry. Just saw mod note.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Leinster vs Edinburgh people, not Leinster vs Connacht...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    .ak wrote: »
    First, no need to reply as the poster cannot reply to you here, second, let's try and keep the discussion on the game tonight.

    That goes for everyone. Apart from Zzippy who doesn't realise it yet but I've been bookmarking all his bragging posts for the end of the season. Keep them coming Zzippy...

    Whatever.

    Banned


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Replay of the tackle. To me he has the arm straight out, leads high with the shoulder and should have had a yellow.

    https://twitter.com/thepenGW/status/721071218233880576

    I think harsh to say high. Look at Fads before he hits. He is well dipped low while standing up. EmbraMan knows his is taking the tackle, stops, and the position of the his feet has him sit back. He is actually quite low. Not really Fergs fault that he does that at the same time Fergs head and shoulders have dipped to make the tackle.

    The clash looks and indeed could have been bad for either or both being injured.
    But its rugby. Unless you insist players can only dive to the ground to make tackles around the ankles, this is liable to happen. I wouldnt penalise McFadden.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    chippers wrote: »
    He was penalised for not wrapping. I said he should have been penalised for being high. Looks to me like he caught him square on the chin!

    He did. But does that mean it was high ? Both players were very dipped. And McFadden unsighted due to dipping his head as well. Is tackling someone around the neck high when a player is burrowing low on a dart for the tryline from a yard out and knocked back ? No. Such hits are never penalised. This one was in open field, and with players at speed. But the principal is the same - Ferg was not standing tall and going for the head/neck of the attacker standing tall.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Buer wrote: »
    Last post on it but this is the moment of impact. If people reckon he isn't connecting above the shoulder with neck or head at this instant, fair enough.

    McFadd_zpsbu9swenq.jpg


    But look at how Embraman is squatting. He could be on the jacks.
    If a defender is diving in to tackle you and you sit down on the ground at the last instant causing them to hit you high, should they be penalised ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 barry rainey


    should have been sent off hope he gets banned


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  • Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭Sean Kinsella


    b.gud wrote: »
    While there is some disagreement over what the tackle warrants, I think we can all agree that the Edinburgh winger is made of steel to bounce straight back up from the it :)

    Looking at the impact, I was simply incredulous when he regained his feet and then the game, despite seeming slightly dazed (and who can blame him).

    It's a hard game; always has been; always will be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    We'll know if tonight's team selection paid off at the end of the season. A few key players will be going to Ulster undercooked. Edinburgh were pretty hopeless, Hidalgo-Clyne at 9 in the first half was near Bergamasco level awful. He targeted the ground with his passes as much as his teammates. The first half was poor for Leinster, Madigan in particular had a mare with some horrific passes into touch. The second half was a positive turnaround, but they were handed a huge boost with that intercept try from that comedy of errors.

    Oh...and...

    Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    dont be saying luke. he could be taking keith earls spot :-)

    MOD: Banned. Poster was warned not to post in thread again, twice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    We'll know if tonight's team selection paid off at the end of the season. A few key players will be going to Ulster undercooked. Edinburgh were pretty hopeless, Hidalgo-Clyne at 9 in the first half was near Bergamasco level awful. He targeted the ground with his passes as much as his teammates. The first half was poor for Leinster, Madigan in particular had a mare with some horrific passes into touch. The second half was a positive turnaround, but they were handed a huge boost with that intercept try from that comedy of errors.

    Oh...and...

    Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
    I saw Madigan make one pass to touch that should have found Luke (who was mightily pissed off) but I didn't see much of the first half, so I presume he made more of those? It's the risk with those long passes o his. They're great when they work though.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Darian Tinkling Motorist


    I saw Madigan make one pass to touch that should have found Luke (who was mightily pissed off) but I didn't see much of the first half, so I presume he made more of those? It's the risk with those long passes o his. They're great when they work though.

    He didn't do anything spectacular in the first half but a couple of times did pretty well in traffic. Had a very good game imo.

    Edit - I misread the post, I thought Madigan was not good. I was talking about Fitz in the sentence above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭chippers


    He didn't do anything spectacular in the first half but a couple of times did pretty well in traffic. Had a very good game imo.

    He kicked well in the first half into the wind, but you'd have to question his awareness throwing two intercepts. Average game at best.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Ferg tackle was kinda similar to the guirado tackle.

    I don't really get why there is so much animosity on this thread right now. I thought that was an exciting second half. The only player I thought was objectively bad was the one who's going to bordeaux. There was a lot to be very happy about. Vdf, moloney, M Kearney, Reid and McGrath had brilliant games.

    Rob Kearney and Fitzgerald also had great games and played all eighty. Funny thing about Kearney is he's getting a lot of love for beating tacklers, but he also made a beautiful pass for one of the tries!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Ferg tackle was kinda similar to the guirado tackle.

    I don't really get why there is so much animosity on this thread right now. I thought that was an exciting second half. The only player I thought was objectively bad was the one who's going to bordeaux. There was a lot to be very happy about. Vdf, moloney, M Kearney, Reid and McGrath had brilliant games.

    Rob Kearney and Fitzgerald also had great games and played all eighty. Funny thing about Kearney is he's getting a lot of love for beating tacklers, but he also made a beautiful pass for one of the tries!
    He would have made another one if he'd not tried to pop the ball to Reid near the end. That's not a criticism, he got into a position to make a score and just had his arm grabbed as he was trying to pop the ball. I like the intention to offload, so not going to blame him for trying. It was a very good game for him and Luke. Between the two of them there were 5 clean breaks and 11 defenders beaten. 124 metres for 15 carries. Against Edinburgh it has to be said. :)


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Darian Tinkling Motorist


    chippers wrote: »
    He kicked well in the first half into the wind, but you'd have to question his awareness throwing two intercepts. Average game at best.

    Hang on wait I thought that post I replied to was about Fitz.

    I thought Madigan was really poor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,773 ✭✭✭connemara man


    Not a great game overall first half was dire second was better but most scores came from opposition mistakes rather than enterprise. 2 intercepts kick to touch that doesn't make it ran back for a try etc.. Luke fitz was the difference between the two teams. Played really well. Madigan was poor.

    I never thought Leinster were going to lose but they made hard work of it over the 80. I'm still not impressed with the team selection vindicated as in they won but not in performance.

    McFadden should have got a yellow at least. I don't think he's making an attempt to wrap. He was always rising into the hit so unless he timed his "wrap" perfectly on impact which he didn't it's dangerous. He hits an inch lower it's still a penalty but penalty only. It was careless and proof of that is he KOd himself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭LostArt


    I wouldn't say Madigan was poor, more of the usual mixed bag from him really. Some good and some terrible moments.


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