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Match Thread: Leinster A V Edinburgh 19:35 TG4/BBC Alba, 15/04/16

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    corny wrote: »
    Not at all. Attempting to wrap is another way of saying he attempted a legitimate tackle but got knocked backwards in a heavy collision. If true thats not a penalty.

    He flew in with his arm straight out, that was a card all day long.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭chippers


    Good to see Healy put in a decent performance. Both second rows impressive. Fitzy looking sharp in the backs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Journeyman_1


    Bazzo wrote: »
    He flew in with his arm straight out, that was a card all day long.

    You can't start a tackle with your arms around your chest and expect to wrap, where do you want him to put his arms when preparing a tackle?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭chippers


    Good to see Healy put in a decent performance. Both second rows impressive. Fitzy looking sharp in the backs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Bazzo wrote: »
    He flew in with his arm straight out, that was a card all day long.
    The ref was clear. The arm was out to wrap but the speed of the impact prevented it. It was a massive impact and a surprise boh players walked away from it. Mitrea is a very good ref, people need to stop being so hysterical.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    2+2=5
    its a leinster thing. ye do maths but were never good at it. instead ye do yards. us in the modern realm do metres (and fast metres at that). welcome to the world. ye can continue to win by bludgeoning your way to it but it doesnt have to be loved. the lack of fans in the rds said as much


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭blackcard


    corny wrote: »
    McFaddens reputation preceding him a little. Don't know how everyone missed the genuine attempt to wrap.

    Yellow on the basis of it being high perhaps but not for no arms.

    That tackle from McFadden was extremely dangerous, no place for it in rugby, asking for someone to get concussed. Someone needs to have a serious word with McFadden and I was supporting Leinster


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭b.gud


    Quick question how come Luke was allowed back on? I thought there was some law about not being able to back on after being subbed, unless you are a front row player


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    You can't start a tackle with your arms around your chest and expect to wrap, where do you want him to put his arms when preparing a tackle?

    You do have to try and wrap the arm, otherwise it's just a clothesline, he left it straight out. Even a load of Leinster fans here are criticising that tackle, crazy to try and defend it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Good result but unconvincing performance. We hit a purple patch when the game became very ragged for 20 minutes and showed some great skill levels. In the first half, we showed little incision but great ball retention before mistakes inevitably came after 20 phases.

    I thought both second rows (MK especially) went well. Cian Healy had a very decent game. Made a great turnover on the deck, some big hits and got through a lot of carrying. Murphy still isn't at the races. VDF is a great player to watch but, being critical, needs to work on his breakdown work. It's a shame Jennings is gone as he should be shadowing him for ruck work.

    Ruddock was at the forefront of everything good in the first half but was much quieter in the second half as the game wore on.

    Luke McGrath had a good game but I was hoping he'd take a little more on in the first half given his ability around the fringes.

    Te'o and Reid both decent. McFadden very mixed. Kearney and Fitz showed they're both quality performers without having to really push themselves hugely.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    blackcard wrote: »
    That tackle from McFadden was extremely dangerous, no place for it in rugby, asking for someone to get concussed. Someone needs to have a serious word with McFadden and I was supporting Leinster
    Seriously? WTF. :mad:

    Lets get the tackle out of rugby, it's too dangerous. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    The ref was clear. The arm was out to wrap but the speed of the impact prevented it. It was a massive impact and a surprise boh players walked away from it. Mitrea is a very good ref, people need to stop being so hysterical.


    Ref got it spot on. Nothing to see here. McFadden is an excellent player. Did tons of great stuff tonight and took his tries very well.

    The campaign against him is nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Very entertaining second half anyway, stark contrast to the dirge of a first half. That's the home semi pretty much sorted now...


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    its a leinster thing. ye do maths but were never good at it. instead ye do yards. us in the modern realm do metres (and fast metres at that). welcome to the world. ye can continue to win by bludgeoning your way to it but it doesnt have to be loved. the lack of fans in the rds said as much

    I don't think you actually managed to watch the match given Leinster scored 4 tries all of which were ran in via passes and offloads.

    The more Leinster get ahead, the more bitter you're becoming.


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭hogandrew


    The ref was clear. The arm was out to wrap but the speed of the impact prevented it. It was a massive impact and a surprise boh players walked away from it. Mitrea is a very good ref, people need to stop being so hysterical.

    He is a very good ref in general play but I think he hides a bit on big decisions. I'm pretty annoyed that after teo went up to him with a red eye and said he had fingers put in his eyes that he didn't check. I watched it back again after the game. It shows a replay around 16 minutes and it's a definite red card in my view


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    So I was expecting a tight 4 pointer for us. A BP win is a fantastic result, and whilst Leinster will
    be disappointed with some of the scores they coughed up,

    For me it justifies the gamble Leo took, to keep some of the first liners fresh and introduce them gradually back into the squad over the next two games.

    Also, how was Fitzgerald not motm?? For a winger he was everywhere, line breaks, try assists, try saving tacked, massive in the breakdown, they even used him in the line out and maul! Himself, Teo and Kearney were fantastic in the first half, Teo and Kearney faded away but Luke kept it up. He was clear motm for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭chippers


    First Up wrote: »
    Ref got it spot on. Nothing to see here. McFadden is an excellent player. Did tons of great stuff tonight and took his tries very well.

    The campaign against him is nonsense.

    Mcfadden had a mixed bag of a game. He took his tries well but you would expect any half decent winger to score those. Defensively he misread the situation a couple of times. His tackle should have been penalised for being high.

    The wrap is always subjective. I thought Healys tackle when he got a yellow a week or two back was fine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Replay of the tackle. To me he has the arm straight out, leads high with the shoulder and should have had a yellow.

    https://twitter.com/thepenGW/status/721071218233880576


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Journeyman_1


    Bazzo wrote: »
    You do have to try and wrap the arm, otherwise it's just a clothesline, he left it straight out. Even a load of Leinster fans here are criticising that tackle, crazy to try and defend it.

    I never said he didn't try to wrap or that you don't have to but in order to wrap, your arms need to start wide and 'wrap' around the other player. In this case I believe he would have done so had both players not immediately bounced away from each other due to the force of the collision. In my post I was challenging your point about him flying in with his arm out, where else should it be? A clothesline is when your arm solely makes contact with the upper chest/neck area of an opponent, are you claiming this is in any way similar to this tackle?

    Also, I'm not going to automatically change my opinion because a relatively small number of others disagree with it. Using that as a reason to dismiss an argument is crazy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Replay of the tackle. To me he has the arm straight out, leads high with the shoulder and should have had a yellow.

    https://twitter.com/thepenGW/status/721071218233880576

    How is that high tho? He hits him below the shoulder? That's the law. For me he's clearly trying to wrap. It seems a tad reckless, think the ref got it right.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    chippers wrote:
    Mcfadden had a mixed bag of a game. He took his tries well but you would expect any half decent winger to score those. Defensively he misread the situation a couple of times. His tackle should have been penalised for being high.


    He was penalised.

    He did some very good stuff in defence - never shirks the hard stuff. Ran good lines in attack. The guys around him know what he does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Possible red card for me. Being as lenient as I can be, it's a poor attempt to wrap, big hit to the collar bone.

    Being more cynical, it's a no arm shoulder to the jaw. Very hard to be definitive given the speed it happened at but just being a penalty is a terrible call. I'd have expected yellow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    First Up wrote: »
    He was penalised.

    He did some very good stuff in defence - never shirks the hard stuff. Ran good lines in attack. The guys around him know what he does.

    Made two awful reads. The first was him shooting up late and on nobody which allowed a try. The second was shooting up into no mans land on halfway and being bailed out by his cover.

    He had a poor defensive game but took his scores well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭b.gud


    .ak wrote: »
    How is that high tho? He hits him below the shoulder? That's the law. For me he's clearly trying to wrap. It seems a tad reckless, think the ref got it right.

    To me it looked like the hit started on the chin not the shoulder


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭chippers


    First Up wrote: »
    He was penalised.

    He did some very good stuff in defence - never shirks the hard stuff. Ran good lines in attack. The guys around him know what he does.

    He was penalised for not wrapping. I said he should have been penalised for being high. Looks to me like he caught him square on the chin!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    .ak wrote: »
    How is that high tho? He hits him below the shoulder? That's the law. For me he's clearly trying to wrap. It seems a tad reckless, think the ref got it right.

    If you call his chin below his shoulder then yes, it's legal. Watch it again, his head snaps back as McFadden's shoulder hits his jaw. Very reckless IMO


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,504 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Hmmm. Didn't watch the game but looking at that "tackle" from McFadden he might find himself cited. Was the good ol' style league shoulder charge tackle (think league has banned that now).

    No surprises to see .ak defending it, a boards poster more willing to give the benefit of the doubt is not to be found!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭Korat


    I think the laws need to be changed to accommodate the moral outrage that accompanies incidents like the McFadden tackle. Create a new offence for a tackle that's not technically illegal but looks bad. An online poll could be displayed on the big screen to assist the referee. :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    .ak wrote: »
    How is that high tho? He hits him below the shoulder? That's the law. For me he's clearly trying to wrap. It seems a tad reckless, think the ref got it right.

    He nearly took his flippin head off!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭b.gud


    While there is some disagreement over what the tackle warrants, I think we can all agree that the Edinburgh winger is made of steel to bounce straight back up from the it :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    I never said he didn't try to wrap or that you don't have to but in order to wrap, your arms need to start wide and 'wrap' around the other player. In this case I believe he would have done so had both players not immediately bounced away from each other due to the force of the collision. In my post I was challenging your point about him flying in with his arm out, where else should it be? A clothesline is when your arm solely makes contact with the upper chest/neck area of an opponent, are you claiming this is in any way similar to this tackle?

    Also, I'm not going to automatically change my opinion because a relatively small number of others disagree with it. Using that as a reason to dismiss an argument is crazy.

    Because you sometimes see players fly in with their arms straight out for shoulder charges like that with no/little attempt to wrap if they're trying to get a big hit in. People say things like "He flew in/tackled with his arm straight out" if they're talking about those kind of situations, I'm sorry if you didn't like the choice of words. It was still a highly illegal tackle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Zzippy wrote: »
    If you call his chin below his shoulder then yes, it's legal. Watch it again, his head snaps back as McFadden's shoulder hits his jaw. Very reckless IMO
    If he was hit on his chin at that speed with that kind of force involved, he'd have been out for the count. Instead he bounced up without hesitation and ran on. Mitrea himself pointed out that he didn't wrap because of the impact and gave the penalty for not wrapping. Correct decison, I doubt there'll be anything more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 barry rainey


    it was a bad tackle if the player never got back up quick,it would have been red


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    He nearly took his flippin head off!
    Edinburgh wingers in running around like headless chickens shocker! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Buer wrote: »
    I don't think you actually managed to watch the match given Leinster scored 4 tries all of which were ran in via passes and offloads.

    The more Leinster get ahead, the more bitter you're becoming.

    You're mistaken to assume he watches any matches to form an opinion. He's that good he doesn't have to.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Zzippy wrote: »
    If you call his chin below his shoulder then yes, it's legal. Watch it again, his head snaps back as McFadden's shoulder hits his jaw. Very reckless IMO

    For me his head snaps back because of the impact and because mcfadden's shoulders ride up, whatever about not wrapping his arms it's not high, he hits him below the shoulders on impact.

    383367.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    .ak wrote: »
    For me his head snaps back because of the impact and because mcfadden's shoulders ride up, whatever about not wrapping his arms it's not high, he hits him below the shoulders on impact.

    He hasn't hit him in that frame?

    In fact, the top of his shoulder appears on a trajectory to crack the player on the jaw or, at best, neck.

    Also, his left arm is down by his side. You don't wrap with one arm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    The only thing wrong with that McFadden tackle is he nearly knocked himself out with **** technique. Nothing illegal about it. Someone mentioned collar bone level. Well that's level or below the shoulder so legal??

    Genuine question, do you have to wrap your arms or just use your arms? This is for refs/legal experts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Good result from Leinster. Felt we were cruising towards the end before Edinburgh shot back with some wonderful sprinting runs.

    The first half was a difficult quagmire as soon as the ref's whistle blew to commence the second half both sides were up for it. Decent performance although sloppy play allowed to many soft tries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Journeyman_1


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Because you sometimes see players fly in with their arms straight out for shoulder charges like that with no/little attempt to wrap if they're trying to get a big hit in. People say things like "He flew in/tackled with his arm straight out" if they're talking about those kind of situations, I'm sorry if you didn't like the choice of words. It was still a highly illegal tackle.

    That's fair enough, i haven't seen that phrase meant in that context before. I still don't think it comes close to applying here. You can clearly see the arm coming around the Edinburgh 14 in an attempt to wrap. the 14 is putting on a load of footwork as he approaches Ferg so his arm starts a little wider in case 14 gets more of a step than expected. Having watched the above clip multiple times now I can't say that it wasn't at least a little high and a penalty is probably a fair result. Highly illegal is pushing it in my opinion.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    .ak wrote: »
    Also, how was Fitzgerald not motm?? For a winger he was everywhere, line breaks, try assists, try saving tacked, massive in the breakdown, they even used him in the line out and maul! Himself, Teo and Kearney were fantastic in the first half, Teo and Kearney faded away but Luke kept it up. He was clear motm for me.
    Yeah, Fitz was very sparkly tonight. His ability to make ground in tight spaces is wondeful to watch. Great to see him playing at his best again. Wasn't surprised that JvdF got it but would have been happier if Fitz had. Having said that, I'm sure Fitz is pretty happy with his showing tonight and doesn't need a MotM award to prove it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Buer wrote: »
    He hasn't hit him in that frame?

    In fact, the top of his shoulder appears on a trajectory to crack the player on the jaw or, at best, neck.

    Also, his left arm is down by his side. You don't wrap with one arm.

    Ah that's defo the frame he hits him, obviously I can't get a better shot on my phone but I've wound it back several times, his shoulder makes contact below the edinburgh's players shoulders but momentum and body position of both players causes him to ride over the top of him.

    Actually the best indicator in the frame that he's hit him is ferg's head is behind the edinburgh's players shoulder ... So unless he's a giraffe that's the point of impact


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Zzippy wrote: »
    If you call his chin below his shoulder then yes, it's legal. Watch it again, his head snaps back as McFadden's shoulder hits his jaw. Very reckless IMO

    Most Scottish people spend most of the time looking at their own shoes and as such there must be some acceptance that their chins spend most of the time below their shoulders. The referee has done well to protect McFadden's right as a Leinster player to be able to smash people in the neck/jaw without wrapping. This is why we call them laws, not rules.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    .ak wrote: »
    Ah that's defo the frame he hits him, obviously I can get a better shot on my phone but I've wound it back several times, his shoulder makes contact below the edinburgh's players shoulders but momentum and body position of both players causes him to ride over the top of him.

    But he's lunging at him from a lower point so he was always going to rise up above shoulder level especially without using his arms to wrap the tackled player. For me it's a yellow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    phog wrote: »
    But he's lunging at him from a lower point so he was always going to rise up above shoulder level especially without using his arms to wrap the tackled player. For me it's a yellow.

    I'd probably agree with a yellow. I've seen less reckless tackles given cards.

    But I defo don't think it was high in the context of the laws, but it was reckless and a bit lazy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Just FYI

    There was another 79 minutes and 58 seconds of rugby tonight.

    We got a bonus point win in spite of a team selection that was an insult to the league, the fans and Jonny Sexton. This was our Miracle Match.

    Anyone want to talk about that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    Just FYI

    There was another 79 minutes and 58 seconds of rugby tonight.

    We got a bonus point win in spite of a team selection that was an insult to the league, the fans and Jonny Sexton. This was our Miracle Match.

    Anyone want to talk about that?

    recurring theme. Leo picks a team and omits senior players, but they get the wins. Top of the table and a home Playoff pretty much assured if glasgow and connacht lose tomorrow


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    The only thing wrong with that McFadden tackle is he nearly knocked himself out with **** technique. Nothing illegal about it. Someone mentioned collar bone level. Well that's level or below the shoulder so legal??

    Genuine question, do you have to wrap your arms or just use your arms? This is for refs/legal experts.
    The laws prohibit 'stiff arm' tackles. No mention of wrapping. I suppose that if you wrap, it can't be a 'stiff arm' tackle but there are numerous ways to have your arm out without it being a 'stiff arm' tackle.

    This clearly isn't the case here anyway. McFadden had his arm out but he put shoulder and arm (and some of his head ;)) into the tackle which negates the possibility of a stiff arm tackle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Journeyman_1


    phog wrote: »
    But he's lunging at him from a lower point so he was always going to rise up above shoulder level especially without using his arms to wrap the tackled player. For me it's a yellow.

    Of course a tackler starts lower in order to power into contact, thats the technique!

    I think the main problem here is that there are always awkward looking tackles when smaller guys duck or crouch just before being tackled. It's a natural way of protecting yourself. The problem is that your head is now where your chest was 1 second previously and so there is an increased chance that this is where you'll get hit. Should we ban people from tackling crouching/ducking players for fear of a slightly high tackle?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    .ak wrote: »
    Ah that's defo the frame he hits him, obviously I can get a better shot on my phone but I've wound it back several times, his shoulder makes contact below the edinburgh's players shoulders but momentum and body position of both players causes him to ride over the top of him.

    Part of him is doing to make contact at shoulder level or lower but it's clear in the image that part of McFadden is about to hit higher than that too. To me he makes contact in both areas which is reckless, combined with the fact that he's only making any effort to wrap with only one arm which is potential foul play in itself.

    If he was to hit the carrier without hitting his head/neck, part of him would have to go on a slightly downward trajectory from where he is in that shot as per the black line below. Which simply didn't/couldn't happen.

    McFadd_zpsyltspwlp.jpg

    Also, if a tackle starts low and slides up, that's still foul play.


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