Match Thread: Leinster A V Edinburgh 19:35 TG4/BBC Alba, 15/04/16

Bazzo

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

I never said he didn't try to wrap or that you don't have to but in order to wrap, your arms need to start wide and 'wrap' around the other player. In this case I believe he would have done so had both players not immediately bounced away from each other due to the force of the collision. In my post I was challenging your point about him flying in with his arm out, where else should it be? A clothesline is when your arm solely makes contact with the upper chest/neck area of an opponent, are you claiming this is in any way similar to this tackle?

Also, I'm not going to automatically change my opinion because a relatively small number of others disagree with it. Using that as a reason to dismiss an argument is crazy.

Because you sometimes see players fly in with their arms straight out for shoulder charges like that with no/little attempt to wrap if they're trying to get a big hit in. People say things like "He flew in/tackled with his arm straight out" if they're talking about those kind of situations, I'm sorry if you didn't like the choice of words. It was still a highly illegal tackle.

CMOTDibbler

Zzippy wrote: »

If you call his chin below his shoulder then yes, it's legal. Watch it again, his head snaps back as McFadden's shoulder hits his jaw. Very reckless IMO

If he was hit on his chin at that speed with that kind of force involved, he'd have been out for the count. Instead he bounced up without hesitation and ran on. Mitrea himself pointed out that he didn't wrap because of the impact and gave the penalty for not wrapping. Correct decison, I doubt there'll be anything more.

barry rainey

it was a bad tackle if the player never got back up quick,it would have been red

CMOTDibbler

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

He nearly took his flippin head off!

Edinburgh wingers in running around like headless chickens shocker!

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

I don't think you actually managed to watch the match given Leinster scored 4 tries all of which were ran in via passes and offloads.

The more Leinster get ahead, the more bitter you're becoming.

You're mistaken to assume he watches any matches to form an opinion. He's that good he doesn't have to.

.ak

Zzippy wrote: »

If you call his chin below his shoulder then yes, it's legal. Watch it again, his head snaps back as McFadden's shoulder hits his jaw. Very reckless IMO

For me his head snaps back because of the impact and because mcfadden's shoulders ride up, whatever about not wrapping his arms it's not high, he hits him below the shoulders on impact.

Buer

.ak wrote: »

For me his head snaps back because of the impact and because mcfadden's shoulders ride up, whatever about not wrapping his arms it's not high, he hits him below the shoulders on impact.

He hasn't hit him in that frame?

In fact, the top of his shoulder appears on a trajectory to crack the player on the jaw or, at best, neck.

Also, his left arm is down by his side. You don't wrap with one arm.

Yeah_Right

The only thing wrong with that McFadden tackle is he nearly knocked himself out with **** technique. Nothing illegal about it. Someone mentioned collar bone level. Well that's level or below the shoulder so legal??

Genuine question, do you have to wrap your arms or just use your arms? This is for refs/legal experts.

KingBrian2

Good result from Leinster. Felt we were cruising towards the end before Edinburgh shot back with some wonderful sprinting runs.

The first half was a difficult quagmire as soon as the ref's whistle blew to commence the second half both sides were up for it. Decent performance although sloppy play allowed to many soft tries.

Journeyman_1

Bazzo wrote: »

Because you sometimes see players fly in with their arms straight out for shoulder charges like that with no/little attempt to wrap if they're trying to get a big hit in. People say things like "He flew in/tackled with his arm straight out" if they're talking about those kind of situations, I'm sorry if you didn't like the choice of words. It was still a highly illegal tackle.

That's fair enough, i haven't seen that phrase meant in that context before. I still don't think it comes close to applying here. You can clearly see the arm coming around the Edinburgh 14 in an attempt to wrap. the 14 is putting on a load of footwork as he approaches Ferg so his arm starts a little wider in case 14 gets more of a step than expected. Having watched the above clip multiple times now I can't say that it wasn't at least a little high and a penalty is probably a fair result. Highly illegal is pushing it in my opinion.

CMOTDibbler

.ak wrote: »

Also, how was Fitzgerald not motm?? For a winger he was everywhere, line breaks, try assists, try saving tacked, massive in the breakdown, they even used him in the line out and maul! Himself, Teo and Kearney were fantastic in the first half, Teo and Kearney faded away but Luke kept it up. He was clear motm for me.

Yeah, Fitz was very sparkly tonight. His ability to make ground in tight spaces is wondeful to watch. Great to see him playing at his best again. Wasn't surprised that JvdF got it but would have been happier if Fitz had. Having said that, I'm sure Fitz is pretty happy with his showing tonight and doesn't need a MotM award to prove it.

.ak

Buer wrote: »

He hasn't hit him in that frame?

In fact, the top of his shoulder appears on a trajectory to crack the player on the jaw or, at best, neck.

Also, his left arm is down by his side. You don't wrap with one arm.

Ah that's defo the frame he hits him, obviously I can't get a better shot on my phone but I've wound it back several times, his shoulder makes contact below the edinburgh's players shoulders but momentum and body position of both players causes him to ride over the top of him.

Actually the best indicator in the frame that he's hit him is ferg's head is behind the edinburgh's players shoulder ... So unless he's a giraffe that's the point of impact

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

If you call his chin below his shoulder then yes, it's legal. Watch it again, his head snaps back as McFadden's shoulder hits his jaw. Very reckless IMO

Most Scottish people spend most of the time looking at their own shoes and as such there must be some acceptance that their chins spend most of the time below their shoulders. The referee has done well to protect McFadden's right as a Leinster player to be able to smash people in the neck/jaw without wrapping. This is why we call them laws, not rules.

phog

.ak wrote: »

Ah that's defo the frame he hits him, obviously I can get a better shot on my phone but I've wound it back several times, his shoulder makes contact below the edinburgh's players shoulders but momentum and body position of both players causes him to ride over the top of him.

But he's lunging at him from a lower point so he was always going to rise up above shoulder level especially without using his arms to wrap the tackled player. For me it's a yellow.

.ak

phog wrote: »

But he's lunging at him from a lower point so he was always going to rise up above shoulder level especially without using his arms to wrap the tackled player. For me it's a yellow.

I'd probably agree with a yellow. I've seen less reckless tackles given cards.

But I defo don't think it was high in the context of the laws, but it was reckless and a bit lazy.

former total

Just FYI

There was another 79 minutes and 58 seconds of rugby tonight.

We got a bonus point win in spite of a team selection that was an insult to the league, the fans and Jonny Sexton. This was our Miracle Match.

Anyone want to talk about that?

neelia11

former total wrote: »

Just FYI

There was another 79 minutes and 58 seconds of rugby tonight.

We got a bonus point win in spite of a team selection that was an insult to the league, the fans and Jonny Sexton. This was our Miracle Match.

Anyone want to talk about that?

recurring theme. Leo picks a team and omits senior players, but they get the wins. Top of the table and a home Playoff pretty much assured if glasgow and connacht lose tomorrow

CMOTDibbler

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The only thing wrong with that McFadden tackle is he nearly knocked himself out with **** technique. Nothing illegal about it. Someone mentioned collar bone level. Well that's level or below the shoulder so legal??

Genuine question, do you have to wrap your arms or just use your arms? This is for refs/legal experts.

The laws prohibit 'stiff arm' tackles. No mention of wrapping. I suppose that if you wrap, it can't be a 'stiff arm' tackle but there are numerous ways to have your arm out without it being a 'stiff arm' tackle.

This clearly isn't the case here anyway. McFadden had his arm out but he put shoulder and arm (and some of his head ) into the tackle which negates the possibility of a stiff arm tackle.

Journeyman_1

phog wrote: »

But he's lunging at him from a lower point so he was always going to rise up above shoulder level especially without using his arms to wrap the tackled player. For me it's a yellow.

Of course a tackler starts lower in order to power into contact, thats the technique!

I think the main problem here is that there are always awkward looking tackles when smaller guys duck or crouch just before being tackled. It's a natural way of protecting yourself. The problem is that your head is now where your chest was 1 second previously and so there is an increased chance that this is where you'll get hit. Should we ban people from tackling crouching/ducking players for fear of a slightly high tackle?

Buer

.ak wrote: »

Ah that's defo the frame he hits him, obviously I can get a better shot on my phone but I've wound it back several times, his shoulder makes contact below the edinburgh's players shoulders but momentum and body position of both players causes him to ride over the top of him.

Part of him is doing to make contact at shoulder level or lower but it's clear in the image that part of McFadden is about to hit higher than that too. To me he makes contact in both areas which is reckless, combined with the fact that he's only making any effort to wrap with only one arm which is potential foul play in itself.

If he was to hit the carrier without hitting his head/neck, part of him would have to go on a slightly downward trajectory from where he is in that shot as per the black line below. Which simply didn't/couldn't happen.



Also, if a tackle starts low and slides up, that's still foul play.

irishbucsfan

Fyi

https://twitter.com/sumostevenson/status/721083902765322240

Zzippy

.ak wrote: »

For me his head snaps back because of the impact and because mcfadden's shoulders ride up, whatever about not wrapping his arms it's not high, he hits him below the shoulders on impact.

Watching in slow-mo, the first point of impact is McFadden's head into the Edinburgh player's chest, just marginally before his right shoulder makes contact with his chin. McFadden's shoulder never makes contact with any part of the body below the shoulder before connecting with his chin. If tackling with the head is legal then it's a legal tackle, but otherwise that's a reckless/dangerous tackle all day long

leakyboots

It looked very bad on first viewing, not quite as bad in the replays (but still reckless/careless) - warranted at least a yellow for me, wouldn't have been surprised with red

Either way Ferg's rush of blood could cost us (Munster) at the end of the season 'cos it gave them a losing bonus point

nehe milner skudder

People were saying alesana tuilagi was rightly cited for running into a bloke in World Cup . Same people are falling over themselves to defend oul Fergus from down the road.

Buer

Last post on it but this is the moment of impact. If people reckon he isn't connecting above the shoulder with neck or head at this instant, fair enough.

CMOTDibbler

Zzippy wrote: »

Watching in slow-mo, the first point of impact is McFadden's head into the Edinburgh player's chest, just marginally before his right shoulder makes contact with his chin. McFadden's shoulder never makes contact with any part of the body below the shoulder before connecting with his chin. If tackling with the head is legal then it's a legal tackle, but otherwise that's a reckless/dangerous tackle all day long

And look how low the Embra winger has gone. If that's not the impact point, he's lowered himself substantially from where McFadden committed to the tackle.

I thought it was a bloody brave tackle to make considering the speed the winger was going and the obvious impact it would have had. How anybody could be expected to micromanage their position with both of them moving so fast. The guy has dropped a foot at least from his running stance.

Yeah_Right

Aki makes that tackle on anyone and Connacht fans blow their load. SOB makes that tackle on McCaw and every Irish man cheers. Nothing wrong with it. But it's McFadden and he is hated by a lot of people.

CMOTDibbler

Buer wrote: »

Last post on it but this is the moment of impact. If people reckon he isn't connecting above the shoulder with neck or head at this instant, fair enough.

Ferg has three arms in that shot. Very bad photoshop job by the beeb there. You'd think after the Jimmy Saville scandal they'd be more careful what they show on telly.

phog

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Of course a tackler starts lower in order to power into contact, thats the technique!

I think the main problem here is that there are always awkward looking tackles when smaller guys duck or crouch just before being tackled. It's a natural way of protecting yourself. The problem is that your head is now where your chest was 1 second previously and so there is an increased chance that this is where you'll get hit. Should we ban people from tackling crouching/ducking players for fear of a slightly high tackle?

Lunging upwards after starting low is the issue. He clearly hits above the shoulder and there isn't a wrap. That's illegal not awkward.

Yeah_Right

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

People were saying alesana tuilagi was rightly cited for running into a bloke in World Cup . Same people are falling over themselves to defend oul Fergus from down the road.

Hold on! I said the Tualagi call was BS and I'm defending McFadden.