El Classico - Leinster v Munster 02/04/2016 - 1730 (TG4, SS3)

awec · 03-04-2016 4:51pm

Closing the bars would make no difference, it's the toilet trips that are the problem. People would just stock up before the game and at half time with pints instead.

CatFromHue · 03-04-2016 5:27pm

Munster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65TY07WZVSw

The highlights are up and as usual they're ****e.

They don't mention Healy's yellow at all or show what Copeland got his yellow for either

Pink Fairy · 03-04-2016 5:30pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65TY07WZVSw

The highlights are up and as usual they're ****e.

They don't mention Healy's yellow at all or show what Copeland got his yellow for either

Comrade IBF has whitewashed all mention of inglorious lies from the propaganda film of Leinster's crushing of the peasant classes

CMOTDibbler · 03-04-2016 5:40pm

awec wrote: »

Yea, but he couldn't get the ball cause Heaslip was on the wrong side. Should have been a penalty IMO.

Was that not a maul that had collapsed?

awec · 03-04-2016 6:02pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Was that not a maul that had collapsed?

I think so, but the ball was playable after the collapse until Heaslip fell onto the wrong side.

I could be totally wrong, but I would have thought either a scrum to Leinster or a penalty to Munster. I don't see how you can give a scrum to Munster, unless he thinks Heaslip accidentally blocked the 9 from playing it though I'd argue that it doesn't matter if it was accidental or not.

Journeyman_1 · 03-04-2016 6:13pm

Munster

I agree with awec, I thought it should have been a turnover scrum or a penalty. Ref didn't seem like he wanted to make that decision though. He had a tough game.

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2016 6:54pm

The ball can become unplayable at a ruck without a penalty needing to be awarded. I haven't seen it again but it's perfectly feasible that Heaslip got trapped and the ref decided to award a scrum to the team in possession.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-04-2016 7:05pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The ball can become unplayable at a ruck without a penalty needing to be awarded. I haven't seen it again but it's perfectly feasible that Heaslip got trapped and the ref decided to award a scrum to the team in possession.

Is that possible ? I thought it had to be either Lei scrum or Mun penalty ?

awec · 03-04-2016 7:35pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The ball can become unplayable at a ruck without a penalty needing to be awarded. I haven't seen it again but it's perfectly feasible that Heaslip got trapped and the ref decided to award a scrum to the team in possession.

Players get trapped all the time on the wrong side and it pretty much always gets given as a penalty. We've all seen where players can't roll away because they are pinned in position by the attacking team's clearing out players.

Buer · 03-04-2016 7:43pm

Not a frequent occurrence but certainly not unusual to see a referee call a scrum at the breakdown due to the ball being unplayable owing to players being trapped on the ground. Probably see it happen once every few games. The more experienced referees tend to utilise it more as an option.

It's a common sense approach and probably should be awarded more often given there's probably at least one penalty a game where the player simply cannot get away after being pinned in place by the attacking side.

CMOTDibbler · 03-04-2016 7:48pm

awec wrote: »

Players get trapped all the time on the wrong side and it pretty much always gets given as a penalty. We've all seen where players can't roll away because they are pinned in position by the attacking team's clearing out players.

You don't have to roll away from a collapsed maul. You can stay put until the ref declares it over. At which point he decides who gets possession from the restart.

salmocab · 03-04-2016 7:49pm

I was at the back of the lower south and I neither heard nor saw a band playing anything or heard piped music, where were they? That gimmicky nonsense is a pain, much prefer the RDS but selling an extra 20000 tickets twice a year is probably fair enough move. We generally don't do anything forced by the stadium announcer or gimmicks well in this country so should just steer clear of them.

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2016 7:56pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You don't have to roll away from a collapsed maul. You can stay put until the ref declares it over. At which point he decides who gets possession from the restart.

Not really no, if it's a maul then it's the team who take it in who will lose out every time unless it's directly from a kick reception. But this was after the maul had broken up and the subsequent ball carrier was tackled.

It's perfectly OK for the referee to declare the ball unplayable at the breakdown and give the put-in to the team going forward. Happens more commonly at lower levels than at pro level.

awec · 03-04-2016 7:56pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You don't have to roll away from a collapsed maul. You can stay put until the ref declares it over. At which point he decides who gets possession from the restart.

I know you don't, but when the ref calls the ball is available this is usually when they expect players to move away and let the 9 play it.

I don't see a viable scenario that ends up in a Munster scrum. Either Leinster succesfully held the ball in the maul (in which case it was a Leinster scrum) or Leinster prevented Munster getting the ball away after he called the maul over and ball available (in which case it had to be a penalty to Munster).

I'm not complaining or anything, it's a relatively minor thing but I thought the ref bottled the decision.

awec · 03-04-2016 7:58pm

salmocab wrote: »

I was at the back of the lower south and I neither heard nor saw a band playing anything or heard piped music, where were they? That gimmicky nonsense is a pain, much prefer the RDS but selling an extra 20000 tickets twice a year is probably fair enough move. We generally don't do anything forced by the stadium announcer or gimmicks well in this country so should just steer clear of them.

The band were at the back of the lower south, in the corner with the west stand.

They had microphones etc, so I am pretty sure the piped in music was actually them singing.

salmocab · 03-04-2016 8:01pm

awec wrote: »

The band were at the back of the lower south, in the corner with the west stand.

They had microphones etc, so I am pretty sure the piped in music was actually them singing.

FFS I was dead centre and didn't see nor hear them. Although that was probably for the best but what a waste of money.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-04-2016 8:09pm

salmocab wrote: »

FFS I was dead centre and didn't see nor hear them. Although that was probably for the best but what a waste of money.

They were under the TV studio box in about section 120. Also shown repeatedly on the big screens.

vienne86 · 03-04-2016 8:10pm

Munster

awec wrote: »

The band were at the back of the lower south, in the corner with the west stand.

They had microphones etc, so I am pretty sure the piped in music was actually them singing.

They were just behind us in block 117. They were live all right. Promise!

thomond2006 · 03-04-2016 8:19pm

The evil Star Wars theme for Munster was kinda funny the first time. Then they did it again.

phog · 03-04-2016 8:20pm

Haven't got around to reading the thread since kick off. My thoughts are we could and should have won the game, both teams played poor enough rugby but I think we blew a few opportunities that should have had us ahead.

I thought Archer had a good game in the scrum, Murray was close to MotM, Holland was great though he had two poor restarts. We missed Ryan particularly in the lineout.

Before the game I thought a LBP would be a good achievement but now, 24hrs after the game I still think we threw that game away.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-04-2016 8:28pm

You are probably right - but that is with the hindsight of Leinster playing poorly as well. Leinster are better fundamentally. But both teams performed at the lower end of their spectrums yesterday.
Had Munster won, Leinster would have been saying the same thing - 'we should have won that - Munster werent up to much at all, but we played badly'.

phog · 03-04-2016 8:54pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You are probably right - but that is with the hindsight of Leinster playing poorly as well. Leinster are better fundamentally. But both teams performed at the lower end of their spectrums yesterday.
Had Munster won, Leinster would have been saying the same thing - 'we should have won that - Munster werent up to much at all, but we played badly'.

Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, the moves yesterday were laboured, slow and predictable. Leinster's defence and Sexton is the main difference between the two teams.

awec · 03-04-2016 8:55pm

phog wrote: »

Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, the moves yesterday were laboured, slow and predictable. Leinster's defence and Sexton is the main difference between the two teams.

There were no moves yesterday, it was like watching rugby league.

Not unique to yesterday either.

Mahatma Geansai · 03-04-2016 8:57pm

phog wrote: »

Haven't got around to reading the thread since kick off. My thoughts are we could and should have won the game, both teams played poor enough rugby but I think we blew a few opportunities that should have had us ahead.

I thought Archer had a good game in the scrum, Murray was close to MotM, Holland was great though he had two poor restarts. We missed Ryan particularly in the lineout.

Before the game I thought a LBP would be a good achievement but now, 24hrs after the game I still think we threw that game away.

Archer was possibly the best prop on the field yesterday which is great going.

We should have had a penalty to draw the game at the end; Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players when he tapped and went/fumbled. A draw would have been a fair reflection of the game and the extra point would have been very important for Munster.

phog · 03-04-2016 9:04pm

WTV's blog of the game.

vienne86 · 03-04-2016 9:32pm

Munster

phog wrote: »

I thought Archer had a good game in the scrum, Murray was close to MotM, Holland was great though he had two poor restarts. We missed Ryan particularly in the lineout.

Murray really was excellent. I think every one of his box kicks was taken by a Munster player. And it seemed to me that every box kick by Reddan was taken by a Munster player.

But he did much more than box kick! I think he deserved MOTM, though I wouldn't argue with it going to Sexton.

Rigor Mortis · 03-04-2016 9:34pm

vienne86 wrote: »

Murray really was excellent. I think every one of his box kicks was taken by a Munster player. And it seemed to me that every box kick by Reddan was taken by a Munster player.

But he did much more than box kick! I think he deserved MOTM, though I wouldn't argue with it going to Sexton.

Totally agree regarding Murray and MOTM. There is an almost slavish tendency to give the award to someone from the winning team. Sexton was very good but Murray was excellent.

neelia11 · 03-04-2016 10:30pm

Munster

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Archer was possibly the best prop on the field yesterday which is great going.

We should have had a penalty to draw the game at the end; Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players when he tapped and went/fumbled. A draw would have been a fair reflection of the game and the extra point would have been very important for Munster.

Need to see again but kilcoyne chipped the ball about head height and nearly fumbled it so whoever tackled him was possibly onside as the poor tap gave time for players to come off the line.

CMOTDibbler · 04-04-2016 6:01am

neelia11 wrote: »

Need to see again but kilcoyne chipped the ball about head height and nearly fumbled it so whoever tackled him was possibly onside as the poor tap gave time for players to come off the line.

Munster made that complaint to the ref and he wasn't having it. Kilcoyne's fumble gave plenty of time for defenders to come up, it was only 5m out.

jacothelad · 04-04-2016 7:52am

Munster

phog wrote: »

Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, the moves yesterday were laboured, slow and predictable. Leinster's defence and Sexton is the main difference between the two teams.

It could read in general, Ulster, Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, their moves are generally laboured, slow and predictable.

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Archer was possibly the best prop on the field yesterday which is great going.

We should have had a penalty to draw the game at the end; Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players when he tapped and went/fumbled. A draw would have been a fair reflection of the game and the extra point would have been very important for Munster.

Archer was o.k. but he flopped stupidly onto a ruck that cost 3 points. On a separate note, I think the ref should have resiled his penalty decision on Ryan. How can you penalise a guy for not rolling away when he is k.o.'d? Poor refereeing.

I thought at first that Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players but when I rewound and looked again he wasn't. He was just crap at what he did. Given the unlikely chance of scoring, Munster should have taken the draw. That extra point could have been a season saver.

Clegg · 04-04-2016 8:50am

Munster

I had another look at Kilcoyne's tap and I don't think Leinster had a player offside. The try line was only a few metres away and Leinster only had to retreat to there anyway. Te'o, I think, rushed up very fast to hit Kilcoyne after the tap.

Tbh I think the offside call is somethiing that has been repeated so much that its become fact rather than opinion.

leakyboots · 04-04-2016 9:33am

*gritted teeth* Congrats Leinster on the win

Thought we threw that one away a bit, braindead at the end. Take the 3 points is what POC or POM would have said I'd have thought, or a scrum. I can understand Killer going for it 'cos he's lethal from that range but the execution was atrocious.

Very happy with how Archer, both Hollands, Murray and TOD went. I think Foley erred in bringing on Keatley at that stage. Zebo was uncharacteristically sloppy.

How far has Cian Healy's star fallen, he's atrocious.

The ref missed things for both sides, especially against Leinster in the last minutes. Draw would have been a fair result for me but them's the breaks

the perfect ten · 04-04-2016 9:57am

DDC1990 wrote: »

Ridiculous from the referee.

I reckon it was 1 minute and 25 seconds from indicating to go for the kick at goal until Sexton actually struck the ball.

Pretty poor refereeing in my opinion.

leakyboots · 04-04-2016 10:56am

the perfect ten wrote: »

I reckon it was 1 minute and 25 seconds from indicating to go for the kick at goal until Sexton actually struck the ball.

Pretty poor refereeing in my opinion.

Yeah, very much so. Especially in the context of the final score, there were Munster players standing near enough too to possibly hear the warning, they should have done a Stringer and ran up and grabbed the ball.

Actually, in that hypothetical situation... is it play on or do Munster get a penalty?

irishbucsfan · 04-04-2016 10:58am

leakyboots wrote: »

Yeah, very much so. Especially in the context of the final score, there were Munster players standing near enough too to possibly hear the warning, they should have done a Stringer and ran up and grabbed the ball.

Actually, in that hypothetical situation... is it play on or do Munster get a penalty?

Was it a penalty or a conversion? I thought it was a penalty

leakyboots · 04-04-2016 11:02am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Was it a penalty or a conversion? I thought it was a penalty

It was a penalty yeah. I'm just wondering the protocols around when the time is up - I presume Munster players can't move regardless in this instance?

irishbucsfan · 04-04-2016 11:06am

leakyboots wrote: »

It was a penalty yeah. I'm just wondering the protocols around when the time is up - I presume Munster players can't move regardless in this instance?

Nah, it's up to the referee. It'd be a free kick to Munster I think but happy to be corrected on that.

neelia11 · 04-04-2016 11:17am

Munster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah, it's up to the referee. It'd be a free kick to Munster I think but happy to be corrected on that.

Scrum i think. Poite pulled sexton up on it before

Journeyman_1 · 04-04-2016 11:57am

Munster

I think the commentators said he had 60 seconds, but is it not 90 for a penalty and 60 for a conversion? Maybe I have those mixed up. In any case, I really wish Sexton could take his kicks a bit quicker in general, its frustrating.

Teferi · 04-04-2016 11:58am

https://twitter.com/murray_kinsella/status/716946927745634304

the perfect ten · 04-04-2016 12:00pm

Is it the arrival of the tee or the indication to kick that starts the clock ?

CatFromHue · 04-04-2016 12:03pm

Munster

No delay. If a kicker indicates to the referee the intention to kick a penalty kick at goal, the kick must be taken within one minute from the time the player indicates the intention to kick at goal. The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground. The player must complete the kick within one minute even if the ball rolls over and has to be placed again. If the one minute is exceeded, the kick is disallowed, a scrum is ordered at the place of the mark and the opponents throw in the ball. For any other type of kick, the kick must be taken without undue delay.

I would have thought it's from they tell the ref they're having a kick at goal but there you go.

jacothelad · 04-04-2016 12:06pm

Munster

CatFromHue wrote: »

I would have thought it's from they tell the ref they're having a kick at goal but there you go.

Here's a novel idea. Why don't the ref's carry players the kicking tees? Think of the time saved.

Teferi · 04-04-2016 12:14pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Here's a novel idea. Why don't the ref's carry players the kicking tees? Think of the time saved.

Surely driving the tee onto the pitch on top of a little remote control car is the superior option?

Buer · 04-04-2016 1:10pm

the perfect ten wrote: »

Is it the arrival of the tee or the indication to kick that starts the clock ?

Law 21.4c

The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground. The player must complete the kick within one minute even if the ball rolls ove

leakyboots · 04-04-2016 1:36pm

It was just another example of the ref bottling key decisions - for both sides - at the end of both halves. I missed part of the first half but I gather Donnacha Ryan was unconscious and he gave a penalty against him. Zebo batting the ball out of play on halftime, Heaslip lying in front of the ruck blocking Murray from the ball... on the tryline... in the last minute... and he gives a Munster scrum because (paraphrasing) "it's messy ball, bodies everywhere". Munster players were asking him to go to TMO over T'eo's no arms offside tackle at the end and he wouldn't.

In a game when the margins/score are close it's frustrating when you see a ref out of his depth like that

leinstertalk · 04-04-2016 1:40pm

Interesting that munster fans seem to be focusing on the ref and not the low level of rugby their team played.

sydthebeat · 04-04-2016 1:55pm

leinstertalk wrote: »

Interesting that munster fans seem to be focusing on the ref and not the low level of rugby their team played.

For the very last scrum i was behind the goals at pitch level.
Kirtchner had gone off to allow mcgrath back in to prop. leinster were a man down in the back line

McFadden was at the RHS post, i think it was conway who was off hogging the rhs touch line. Sexton, teo, ringrose and FMC covered from the 15 to the posts... leaving a half of the pitch open.

ALL munster needed to do was hold a steady scrum and Keatley to kick across... he literally has a whole half of the pitch to kick to.

Instead the play was to run into leinster traffic in the center of the pitch.
Idioctic choice of game tactics.

Bazzo · 04-04-2016 2:18pm

leinstertalk wrote: »

Interesting that munster fans seem to be focusing on the ref and not the low level of rugby their team played.

As a neutral there's been plenty of whinging about the refereeing from both sides in this thread so I'm not sure I'd pull that card.

leinstertalk · 04-04-2016 2:20pm

Bazzo wrote: »

As a neutral there's been plenty of whinging about the refereeing from both sides in this thread so I'm not sure I'd pull that card.

leinster were poor, munster were poor. Using the ref as some excuse is weak and doesn't address the huge fall in standards in both sides.

El Classico - Leinster v Munster 02/04/2016 - 1730 (TG4, SS3)

Comments