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El Classico - Leinster v Munster 02/04/2016 - 1730 (TG4, SS3)

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Comments

  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Closing the bars would make no difference, it's the toilet trips that are the problem. People would just stock up before the game and at half time with pints instead.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Munster


    The highlights are up and as usual they're ****e.

    They don't mention Healy's yellow at all or show what Copeland got his yellow for either :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Pink Fairy


    CatFromHue wrote: »


    The highlights are up and as usual they're ****e.

    They don't mention Healy's yellow at all or show what Copeland got his yellow for either :confused:

    Comrade IBF has whitewashed all mention of inglorious lies from the propaganda film of Leinster's crushing of the peasant classes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    awec wrote: »
    Yea, but he couldn't get the ball cause Heaslip was on the wrong side. Should have been a penalty IMO.
    Was that not a maul that had collapsed?


  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Was that not a maul that had collapsed?

    I think so, but the ball was playable after the collapse until Heaslip fell onto the wrong side.

    I could be totally wrong, but I would have thought either a scrum to Leinster or a penalty to Munster. I don't see how you can give a scrum to Munster, unless he thinks Heaslip accidentally blocked the 9 from playing it though I'd argue that it doesn't matter if it was accidental or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Journeyman_1


    Munster
    I agree with awec, I thought it should have been a turnover scrum or a penalty. Ref didn't seem like he wanted to make that decision though. He had a tough game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The ball can become unplayable at a ruck without a penalty needing to be awarded. I haven't seen it again but it's perfectly feasible that Heaslip got trapped and the ref decided to award a scrum to the team in possession.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    The ball can become unplayable at a ruck without a penalty needing to be awarded. I haven't seen it again but it's perfectly feasible that Heaslip got trapped and the ref decided to award a scrum to the team in possession.

    Is that possible ? I thought it had to be either Lei scrum or Mun penalty ? :confused:


  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The ball can become unplayable at a ruck without a penalty needing to be awarded. I haven't seen it again but it's perfectly feasible that Heaslip got trapped and the ref decided to award a scrum to the team in possession.

    Players get trapped all the time on the wrong side and it pretty much always gets given as a penalty. We've all seen where players can't roll away because they are pinned in position by the attacking team's clearing out players.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Not a frequent occurrence but certainly not unusual to see a referee call a scrum at the breakdown due to the ball being unplayable owing to players being trapped on the ground. Probably see it happen once every few games. The more experienced referees tend to utilise it more as an option.

    It's a common sense approach and probably should be awarded more often given there's probably at least one penalty a game where the player simply cannot get away after being pinned in place by the attacking side.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    awec wrote: »
    Players get trapped all the time on the wrong side and it pretty much always gets given as a penalty. We've all seen where players can't roll away because they are pinned in position by the attacking team's clearing out players.
    You don't have to roll away from a collapsed maul. You can stay put until the ref declares it over. At which point he decides who gets possession from the restart.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,438 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I was at the back of the lower south and I neither heard nor saw a band playing anything or heard piped music, where were they? That gimmicky nonsense is a pain, much prefer the RDS but selling an extra 20000 tickets twice a year is probably fair enough move. We generally don't do anything forced by the stadium announcer or gimmicks well in this country so should just steer clear of them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    You don't have to roll away from a collapsed maul. You can stay put until the ref declares it over. At which point he decides who gets possession from the restart.

    Not really no, if it's a maul then it's the team who take it in who will lose out every time unless it's directly from a kick reception. But this was after the maul had broken up and the subsequent ball carrier was tackled.

    It's perfectly OK for the referee to declare the ball unplayable at the breakdown and give the put-in to the team going forward. Happens more commonly at lower levels than at pro level.


  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    You don't have to roll away from a collapsed maul. You can stay put until the ref declares it over. At which point he decides who gets possession from the restart.

    I know you don't, but when the ref calls the ball is available this is usually when they expect players to move away and let the 9 play it.

    I don't see a viable scenario that ends up in a Munster scrum. Either Leinster succesfully held the ball in the maul (in which case it was a Leinster scrum) or Leinster prevented Munster getting the ball away after he called the maul over and ball available (in which case it had to be a penalty to Munster).

    I'm not complaining or anything, it's a relatively minor thing but I thought the ref bottled the decision.


  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    salmocab wrote: »
    I was at the back of the lower south and I neither heard nor saw a band playing anything or heard piped music, where were they? That gimmicky nonsense is a pain, much prefer the RDS but selling an extra 20000 tickets twice a year is probably fair enough move. We generally don't do anything forced by the stadium announcer or gimmicks well in this country so should just steer clear of them.

    The band were at the back of the lower south, in the corner with the west stand.

    They had microphones etc, so I am pretty sure the piped in music was actually them singing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,438 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    awec wrote: »
    The band were at the back of the lower south, in the corner with the west stand.

    They had microphones etc, so I am pretty sure the piped in music was actually them singing.

    FFS I was dead centre and didn't see nor hear them. Although that was probably for the best but what a waste of money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    salmocab wrote: »
    FFS I was dead centre and didn't see nor hear them. Although that was probably for the best but what a waste of money.

    They were under the TV studio box in about section 120. Also shown repeatedly on the big screens.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,076 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    Munster
    awec wrote: »
    The band were at the back of the lower south, in the corner with the west stand.

    They had microphones etc, so I am pretty sure the piped in music was actually them singing.

    They were just behind us in block 117. They were live all right. Promise!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The evil Star Wars theme for Munster was kinda funny the first time. Then they did it again.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,546 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Haven't got around to reading the thread since kick off. My thoughts are we could and should have won the game, both teams played poor enough rugby but I think we blew a few opportunities that should have had us ahead.

    I thought Archer had a good game in the scrum, Murray was close to MotM, Holland was great though he had two poor restarts. We missed Ryan particularly in the lineout.

    Before the game I thought a LBP would be a good achievement but now, 24hrs after the game I still think we threw that game away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    You are probably right - but that is with the hindsight of Leinster playing poorly as well. Leinster are better fundamentally. But both teams performed at the lower end of their spectrums yesterday.
    Had Munster won, Leinster would have been saying the same thing - 'we should have won that - Munster werent up to much at all, but we played badly'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,546 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You are probably right - but that is with the hindsight of Leinster playing poorly as well. Leinster are better fundamentally. But both teams performed at the lower end of their spectrums yesterday.
    Had Munster won, Leinster would have been saying the same thing - 'we should have won that - Munster werent up to much at all, but we played badly'.

    Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, the moves yesterday were laboured, slow and predictable. Leinster's defence and Sexton is the main difference between the two teams.


  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    phog wrote: »
    Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, the moves yesterday were laboured, slow and predictable. Leinster's defence and Sexton is the main difference between the two teams.

    There were no moves yesterday, it was like watching rugby league.

    Not unique to yesterday either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    phog wrote: »
    Haven't got around to reading the thread since kick off. My thoughts are we could and should have won the game, both teams played poor enough rugby but I think we blew a few opportunities that should have had us ahead.

    I thought Archer had a good game in the scrum, Murray was close to MotM, Holland was great though he had two poor restarts. We missed Ryan particularly in the lineout.

    Before the game I thought a LBP would be a good achievement but now, 24hrs after the game I still think we threw that game away.

    Archer was possibly the best prop on the field yesterday which is great going.

    We should have had a penalty to draw the game at the end; Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players when he tapped and went/fumbled. A draw would have been a fair reflection of the game and the extra point would have been very important for Munster.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,546 ✭✭✭✭phog




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,076 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    Munster
    phog wrote: »

    I thought Archer had a good game in the scrum, Murray was close to MotM, Holland was great though he had two poor restarts. We missed Ryan particularly in the lineout.

    Murray really was excellent. I think every one of his box kicks was taken by a Munster player. And it seemed to me that every box kick by Reddan was taken by a Munster player.

    But he did much more than box kick! I think he deserved MOTM, though I wouldn't argue with it going to Sexton.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    vienne86 wrote: »
    Murray really was excellent. I think every one of his box kicks was taken by a Munster player. And it seemed to me that every box kick by Reddan was taken by a Munster player.

    But he did much more than box kick! I think he deserved MOTM, though I wouldn't argue with it going to Sexton.

    Totally agree regarding Murray and MOTM. There is an almost slavish tendency to give the award to someone from the winning team. Sexton was very good but Murray was excellent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    Munster
    Archer was possibly the best prop on the field yesterday which is great going.

    We should have had a penalty to draw the game at the end; Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players when he tapped and went/fumbled. A draw would have been a fair reflection of the game and the extra point would have been very important for Munster.

    Need to see again but kilcoyne chipped the ball about head height and nearly fumbled it so whoever tackled him was possibly onside as the poor tap gave time for players to come off the line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    neelia11 wrote: »
    Need to see again but kilcoyne chipped the ball about head height and nearly fumbled it so whoever tackled him was possibly onside as the poor tap gave time for players to come off the line.
    Munster made that complaint to the ref and he wasn't having it. Kilcoyne's fumble gave plenty of time for defenders to come up, it was only 5m out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,935 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Munster
    phog wrote: »
    Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, the moves yesterday were laboured, slow and predictable. Leinster's defence and Sexton is the main difference between the two teams.

    It could read in general, Ulster, Munster and Leinster look poorly coached, their moves are generally laboured, slow and predictable.
    Archer was possibly the best prop on the field yesterday which is great going.

    We should have had a penalty to draw the game at the end; Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players when he tapped and went/fumbled. A draw would have been a fair reflection of the game and the extra point would have been very important for Munster.

    Archer was o.k. but he flopped stupidly onto a ruck that cost 3 points. On a separate note, I think the ref should have resiled his penalty decision on Ryan. How can you penalise a guy for not rolling away when he is k.o.'d? Poor refereeing.

    I thought at first that Kilcoyne was tackled by offside players but when I rewound and looked again he wasn't. He was just crap at what he did. Given the unlikely chance of scoring, Munster should have taken the draw. That extra point could have been a season saver.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,427 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Munster
    I had another look at Kilcoyne's tap and I don't think Leinster had a player offside. The try line was only a few metres away and Leinster only had to retreat to there anyway. Te'o, I think, rushed up very fast to hit Kilcoyne after the tap.

    Tbh I think the offside call is somethiing that has been repeated so much that its become fact rather than opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    *gritted teeth* Congrats Leinster on the win

    Thought we threw that one away a bit, braindead at the end. Take the 3 points is what POC or POM would have said I'd have thought, or a scrum. I can understand Killer going for it 'cos he's lethal from that range but the execution was atrocious.

    Very happy with how Archer, both Hollands, Murray and TOD went. I think Foley erred in bringing on Keatley at that stage. Zebo was uncharacteristically sloppy.

    How far has Cian Healy's star fallen, he's atrocious.

    The ref missed things for both sides, especially against Leinster in the last minutes. Draw would have been a fair result for me but them's the breaks


  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭the perfect ten


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    Ridiculous from the referee.

    I reckon it was 1 minute and 25 seconds from indicating to go for the kick at goal until Sexton actually struck the ball.

    Pretty poor refereeing in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    I reckon it was 1 minute and 25 seconds from indicating to go for the kick at goal until Sexton actually struck the ball.

    Pretty poor refereeing in my opinion.

    Yeah, very much so. Especially in the context of the final score, there were Munster players standing near enough too to possibly hear the warning, they should have done a Stringer and ran up and grabbed the ball.

    Actually, in that hypothetical situation... is it play on or do Munster get a penalty?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    leakyboots wrote: »
    Yeah, very much so. Especially in the context of the final score, there were Munster players standing near enough too to possibly hear the warning, they should have done a Stringer and ran up and grabbed the ball.

    Actually, in that hypothetical situation... is it play on or do Munster get a penalty?

    Was it a penalty or a conversion? I thought it was a penalty


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Was it a penalty or a conversion? I thought it was a penalty

    It was a penalty yeah. I'm just wondering the protocols around when the time is up - I presume Munster players can't move regardless in this instance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    leakyboots wrote: »
    It was a penalty yeah. I'm just wondering the protocols around when the time is up - I presume Munster players can't move regardless in this instance?

    Nah, it's up to the referee. It'd be a free kick to Munster I think but happy to be corrected on that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    Munster
    Nah, it's up to the referee. It'd be a free kick to Munster I think but happy to be corrected on that.

    Scrum i think. Poite pulled sexton up on it before


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Journeyman_1


    Munster
    I think the commentators said he had 60 seconds, but is it not 90 for a penalty and 60 for a conversion? Maybe I have those mixed up. In any case, I really wish Sexton could take his kicks a bit quicker in general, its frustrating.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi




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  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭the perfect ten


    Is it the arrival of the tee or the indication to kick that starts the clock ?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Munster
    No delay. If a kicker indicates to the referee the intention to kick a penalty kick at goal, the kick must be taken within one minute from the time the player indicates the intention to kick at goal. The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground. The player must complete the kick within one minute even if the ball rolls over and has to be placed again. If the one minute is exceeded, the kick is disallowed, a scrum is ordered at the place of the mark and the opponents throw in the ball. For any other type of kick, the kick must be taken without undue delay.

    I would have thought it's from they tell the ref they're having a kick at goal but there you go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,935 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Munster
    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I would have thought it's from they tell the ref they're having a kick at goal but there you go.

    Here's a novel idea. Why don't the ref's carry players the kicking tees? Think of the time saved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Here's a novel idea. Why don't the ref's carry players the kicking tees? Think of the time saved.

    Surely driving the tee onto the pitch on top of a little remote control car is the superior option?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Is it the arrival of the tee or the indication to kick that starts the clock ?

    Law 21.4c

    The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground. The player must complete the kick within one minute even if the ball rolls ove


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    It was just another example of the ref bottling key decisions - for both sides - at the end of both halves. I missed part of the first half but I gather Donnacha Ryan was unconscious and he gave a penalty against him. Zebo batting the ball out of play on halftime, Heaslip lying in front of the ruck blocking Murray from the ball... on the tryline... in the last minute... and he gives a Munster scrum because (paraphrasing) "it's messy ball, bodies everywhere". Munster players were asking him to go to TMO over T'eo's no arms offside tackle at the end and he wouldn't.

    In a game when the margins/score are close it's frustrating when you see a ref out of his depth like that


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭leinstertalk


    Interesting that munster fans seem to be focusing on the ref and not the low level of rugby their team played.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,963 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Interesting that munster fans seem to be focusing on the ref and not the low level of rugby their team played.

    For the very last scrum i was behind the goals at pitch level.
    Kirtchner had gone off to allow mcgrath back in to prop. leinster were a man down in the back line

    McFadden was at the RHS post, i think it was conway who was off hogging the rhs touch line. Sexton, teo, ringrose and FMC covered from the 15 to the posts... leaving a half of the pitch open.

    ALL munster needed to do was hold a steady scrum and Keatley to kick across... he literally has a whole half of the pitch to kick to.

    Instead the play was to run into leinster traffic in the center of the pitch.
    Idioctic choice of game tactics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Interesting that munster fans seem to be focusing on the ref and not the low level of rugby their team played.

    As a neutral there's been plenty of whinging about the refereeing from both sides in this thread so I'm not sure I'd pull that card.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭leinstertalk


    Bazzo wrote: »
    As a neutral there's been plenty of whinging about the refereeing from both sides in this thread so I'm not sure I'd pull that card.

    leinster were poor, munster were poor. Using the ref as some excuse is weak and doesn't address the huge fall in standards in both sides.


This discussion has been closed.
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