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Do you think a referendum on abortion would be passed?(not how you'd vote)

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Comments

  • #302
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    Dick phelan wrote: »
    On the issue of term limit what should it be then? I find it hard to support abortion at a stage where babies are know to have survived, find it very hard to justify abortion at a late stage like 20+ weeks. So what limit would abortion be at, would it change as medicine advances, like it's lowered because babies can now potentially survive at this stage? At the moment i don't have an issue with abortions early into pregnancy, as pointed out the majority actually happen at the early stage, 9 weeks ect. Issue i have is when you see what i would consider babies of 20 weeks or thereabouts being aborted, i believe at that stage it's hard to not see it as a baby maybe not fully formed yet but certainly not just a collection of cells.

    I believe 16 weeks is the earliest a baby can survive outside the womb, so I would support a limit of 14 weeks.


  • #303
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    Selene Dry Apartment wrote: »
    How does telling someone if they are having sex they need to keep in mind the possibility (however small) of a pregnancy occurring (and if it happens then abortion should not be an option) = that drivel you are posting?



    How you are arriving at that conclusion is a mystery. I never said they should have known better or kept their legs together. I said if someone gets pregnant they should have the baby and an abortion should not be an option.

    The fact that you can't see the link between what you're saying and what I'm saying is a massive part of the problem.


  • #304
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Selene Dry Apartment wrote: »
    Bizarre stuff completely unrelated to anything I posted.

    Haha, oh you, you're gas, might actually be my favourite poster now :-)


  • #305
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    Elyse Quiet Canoe wrote: »
    What brought us the Magdalene laundries was the hatred and stigma of female sexuality, actually. There were hundreds of thousands of unwanted pregnancies in good old contraception free Ireland which happened within the confines of marriage, but those were A-OK.

    Not every woman or girl who was committed to a laundry was pregnant. I mean the name of the laundries might give you a bit of a clue as to their ethos?

    Failing to see why this makes it ok to take another human life today.


  • #306
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    I believe 16 weeks is the earliest a baby can survive outside the womb, so I would support a limit of 14 weeks.

    The earliest was just under 22 weeks.


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  • #307
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    I believe 16 weeks is the earliest a baby can survive outside the womb, so I would support a limit of 14 weeks.

    and anyone who wants to terminate another human life between 14 and 24 weeks should head off to England ?


  • #308
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Arkady wrote: »
    Failing to see why this makes it ok to take another human life today.

    I was just responding to your mistaken assertion that it was a stigma against unwanted pregnancy that led to the laundries.


  • #309
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    Elyse Quiet Canoe wrote: »
    I was just responding to your mistaken assertion that it was a stigma against unwanted pregnancy that led to the laundries.

    It isn't, but still failing to see why this makes it ok to take another human life today ?


  • #310
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    Arkady wrote: »
    It isn't, but still failing to see why this makes it ok to take another human life today ?

    They're not directly related- it's a slight tangent from the main thread.


  • #311
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,039 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    I'm comfortable with the UK limit of 24 weeks tbh - the overwhelming majority of procedures (90+%) are in the first trimester anyway with a high proportion of those being before 10 weeks, and many conditions which often result in a TFMR are only diagnosed at 18-22 weeks at the anatomy scan and after some further testing following that.

    Are you comfortable with a healthy child being terminated at 24 weeks?


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  • #312
    deseil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭deseil


    Arkady wrote: »
    It isn't, but still failing to see why this makes it ok to take another human life today ?

    Children have such a financial emotional and physical effect on every parent who has them. I respect your opinion and your right to never abort but why should you get to choose anothers path because of your views?
    The state does not raise a child, a parent does and if they do not feel able or ready they should be allowed the choice not to.


  • #313
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    deseil wrote: »
    Children have such a financial emotional and physical effect on every parent who has them. I respect your opinion and your right to never abort but why should you get to choose anothers path because of your views?
    The state does not raise a child, a parent does and if they do not feel able or ready they should be allowed the choice not to.

    They already do, there are thousands of Irish people on waiting lists desperate to adopt who can raise the child and give them a loving fulfilled life and home, where they can become wanted members of Irish society, there isn't any need to end their life because the timing is inconvenient for someone else.


  • #314
    deseil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭deseil


    Arkady wrote: »
    They already do, there are thousands of Irish people on waiting lists desperate to adopt who can raise the child and give them a loving fulfilled life and home, where they can become wanted members of Irish society, there isn't any need to end their life because the timing is inconvenient for someone else.

    Ah come on!are you seriously suggesting a woman goes through the trauma of carrying a child and giving birth with all her family friends and work colleagues obviously knowing,and then she just gives the baby away and nobody ever talks about it again and she goes on with her life?
    Its not going to happen unless we hide her away and go back to the laundry days.


  • #315
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    deseil wrote: »
    Ah come on!are you seriously suggesting a woman goes through the trauma of carrying a child and giving birth with all her family friends and work colleagues obviously knowing,and then she just gives the baby away and nobody ever talks about it again and she goes on with her life?
    Its not going to happen unless we hide her away and go back to the laundry days.

    Do you not think it's about time that stigma you seem to want to perpetuate and play into was removed from Irish society and stood up to, instead of thinking the solution in order not to offend your precious social standing is killing the child ?


  • #316
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    deseil wrote: »
    Ah come on!are you seriously suggesting a woman goes through the trauma of carrying a child and giving birth with all her family friends and work colleagues obviously knowing,and then she just gives the baby away and nobody ever talks about it again and she goes on with her life?
    Its not going to happen unless we hide her away and go back to the laundry days.

    Imagine what people will think of her if they find out she had an abortion (and word of these things always gets around) if they think giving the baby up for adoption is such a talking point.


  • #317
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Selene Dry Apartment wrote: »
    Imagine what people will think of her if they find out she had an abortion (and word of these things always gets around) if they think giving the baby up for adoption is such a talking point.

    I am not an incubator. If I chose to have an abortion, people around me can accept it, or not talk to me again.


  • #318
    deseil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭deseil


    Selene Dry Apartment wrote: »
    Imagine what people will think of her if they find out she had an abortion (and word of these things always gets around) if they think giving the baby up for adoption is such a talking point.

    Thats her business why would she tell anyone.
    Your all so bloody brainwashed.
    No one has any right to force a life on another that they dont want! If you personally want or dont want children thats your choice.
    Forcing your views on someone you dont know or support in anyway is just plain wrong.


  • #319
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Selene Dry Apartment wrote: »
    Imagine what people will think of her if they find out she had an abortion (and word of these things always gets around) if they think giving the baby up for adoption is such a talking point.

    Believe it or not most people couldn't care less if a woman has had an abortion.


  • #320
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Gay marriage passed. This leads me to believe enough of the population are finally enlightened enough that this would pass. Not everyone, this is still Ireland after all. After the states, we are easily the most religions of the 1st world nations. That's going to take more time to correct.

    So I'm guessing it would pass by a slim majority but pass all the same.


  • #321
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    deseil wrote: »
    Forcing your views on someone you dont know or support in anyway is just plain wrong.

    But apparently taking their life instead is ok.


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  • #322
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Believe it or not most people couldn't care less if a woman has had an abortion.

    I was pointing out that if the poster thinks people will talk about someone giving birth and putting it up for adoption they will talk as much or most likely more about someone having an abortion.

    I'd also imagine that everyone who would vote no, which is very possible to be over 50% of voters would have issue with people who have had one.
    deseil wrote: »
    Forcing your views on someone you dont know or support in anyway is just plain wrong.

    Is that what a person who has killed someone says when they are in jail? Why are people forcing their views on me about murder being wrong.


  • #323
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    Kirby wrote: »
    Gay marriage passed. This leads me to believe enough of the population are finally enlightened enough that this would pass. Not everyone, this is still Ireland after all. After the states, we are easily the most religions of the 1st world nations. That's going to take more time to correct.

    Being pro Gay has nothing to do with abortion, nor does religion, atheism or theism.

    The rights and wrongs of taking another human life is not dependent on any of these things.


  • #324
    AlexisM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 250 ✭✭AlexisM


    Selene Dry Apartment wrote: »
    Imagine what people will think of her if they find out she had an abortion (and word of these things always gets around) if they think giving the baby up for adoption is such a talking point.
    What are you on about? 'Word' rarely gets around about people having abortions. Other than 3 friends who told me, I have never heard of anyone else having an abortion even though I must know loads who have going by the numbers. And the 3 friends - no-one knows that they haven't told. No gossip at all. Whereas if they had gone through with the pregnancy, the world and his wife would be gossiping about it.


  • #325
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,039 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    I actually think debate on this issue is pointless your personal decision is a gut instinct basic reaction

    Just let the people vote no arguments


  • #326
    CaraMay
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭CaraMay


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Believe it or not most people couldn't care less if a woman has had an abortion.

    That's not the case. I Have two friends who have had an abortion and I privately found it very upsetting for a long time after they told me.


  • #327
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Selene Dry Apartment wrote: »
    .

    I'd also imagine that everyone who would vote no, which is very possible to be over 50% of voters would have issue with people who have had one..

    No you care and you would have issues with it. Most people don't have your narrow view of reality. What would you do if someone close to you had an abortion? Would you distance yourself from them?


  • #328
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    CaraMay wrote: »
    That's not the case. I Have two friends who have had an abortion and I privately found it very upsetting for a long time after they told me.

    Are you still friends?


  • #329
    CaraMay
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭CaraMay


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    I actually think debate on this issue is pointless your personal decision is a gut instinct basic reaction

    Just let the people vote no arguments

    Agreed! My gut will never change on this. To my core, I believe that unnecessary termination of life is wrong.


  • #330
    CaraMay
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭CaraMay


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Are you still friends?

    Very much so. We are going on holidays in May. I've never expressed my feelings to her on the subject but silently I find it sad.


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  • #331
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    CaraMay wrote: »
    Very much so. We are going on holidays in May. I've never expressed my feelings to her on the subject but silently I find it sad.

    That's my point, you may not personally agree with it but you haven't let it damage your friendship.


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