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The Hazards of Belief

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    #6482
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    And another Davis-style story in from Jerusalem - where the orthodox religious want everybody else to conform to their rules:

    Ultra-Orthodox tell Jerusalem bike sharers to take a hike

    http://news.yahoo.com/ultra-orthodox-tell-jerusalem-bike-sharers-hike-021701717.html
    Yahoo wrote:
    Jerusalem (AFP) - A bicycle-sharing plan for Jerusalem is aiming to cut down on traffic and boost tourism in the Holy City, but ultra-Orthodox Jews are refusing to let it ride -- at least on Saturdays. It is the latest in a recent series of skirmishes over observance of the Jewish Sabbath, which runs from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, with cinemas, convenience stores and even football drawn into the fray.

    "We view this with the utmost gravity," ultra-Orthodox city councillor Eliezer Rauchberger said in a recent radio interview of plans to operate the bicycle-sharing scheme seven days a week, meaning also on the Sabbath. "We will do everything we can to prevent this. Jerusalem is a holy city. That's how it needs to be run." Such disputes arise regularly in Jerusalem, where the holiest of holy sites exist side-by-side with all the trappings of modern life.

    Secular residents want to live as they would in any other major city -- or at least be able to see a movie on Saturdays. But strictly religious Jews, who make up more than 20 percent of the population of 829,000, call it a special place whose sacredness must be maintained.

    [...]


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    #6483
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bit surprised at this. Ok I know SFA about New Zealand, but I was under the impression they were in the main a liberal lot....

    "New Zealand bans award-winning teenage novel after outcry from Christian group
    Ted Dawe’s Into the River is banned from shops, schools and distribution across the country with fines of up to $10,000 for those ignoring the order."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/new-zealand-bans-into-the-river-teenage-novel-outcry-christian-group


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    #6484
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Headmaster being a bit racist...



    http://www.thelocal.de/20150626/refugee-school-calls-for-uniform-modesty

    A school in Bavaria has sent a letter home to parents warning them not to let their daughters wear revealing blouses or short skirts, because emergency accommodation for refugees has been set up next to the gym.

    A week ago emergency accommodation for 200 Syrian refugees was erected right next to the gym of Wilhelm-Diess-Gymnasium in Pocking, Bavaria, Die Welt reports.

    The gym has been closed as a result, and PE lessons have been relocated to a nearby primary school, but the school is still worried about the refugees interacting with students.

    So worried in fact that the headteacher recently sent out a letter to parents to give reassurance about extra security measures.

    "For the refugees, access to the school gardens and buildings is strictly forbidden. The same goes for the school grounds during the day. The number of teachers on duty during breaks has been increased," read the letter from headteacher Martin Thalhammer.

    The letter goes on to give students instructions on how to deal with the situation:

    "The Syrian citizens are mainly Muslims and speak Arabic. The refugees are marked by their own culture. Because our school is directly next to where they are staying, modest clothing should be adhered to, in order to avoid discrepancies. Revealing tops or blouses, short shorts or miniskirts could lead to misunderstandings."

    The letter has not been met favourably by some parents, but a local politician, who did not want to be named, told Die Welt the move was "absolutely necessary".

    "When Muslim teenage boys go to open air swimming pools, they are overwhelmed when they see girls in bikinis," he said.

    "These boys, who come from a culture where for women it is frowned upon to show naked skin, follow girls and bother them without realizing. Obviously this is concerning for us," he continued.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #6485
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Nodin wrote: »
    Bit surprised at this. Ok I know SFA about New Zealand, but I was under the impression they were in the main a liberal lot....

    "New Zealand bans award-winning teenage novel after outcry from Christian group
    Ted Dawe’s Into the River is banned from shops, schools and distribution across the country with fines of up to $10,000 for those ignoring the order."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/new-zealand-bans-into-the-river-teenage-novel-outcry-christian-group
    So they have pretty much guaranteed that every child will now read this book. Good work.

    MrP


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    #6486
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,068 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    silverharp wrote: »
    Headmaster being a bit racist...

    http://www.thelocal.de/20150626/refugee-school-calls-for-uniform-modesty
    Not sure why this would be a "hazard of belief"? The school appears to be a secular school.


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    #6487
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Not sure why this would be a "hazard of belief"? The school appears to be a secular school.

    it depends , if he has good reason to do it then its a hazard of Islamic belief no?
    I just cant tell from the info.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #6488
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,068 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    silverharp wrote: »
    it depends , if he has good reason to do it then its a hazard of Islamic belief no?
    I just cant tell from the info.
    Robin thinks he's being "a bit racist", and I must say I'm inclined to agree. There's no suggestion that there have been any incidents that might give rise to concerns, and from the report the refugees are coming from Syria, which is not a country in which there are generally objections to western styles of dress, buying, selling or drinking alcohol, etc (except recently, in areas controlled by ISIS, obviously). I think the headmaster is simply projecting Daily Mail-type prejudicial stereotypes about Islam onto the refugees because Syrian citizens are "mainly Muslims".


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    #6489
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Robin thinks he's being "a bit racist", and I must say I'm inclined to agree. There's no suggestion that there have been any incidents that might give rise to concerns, and from the report the refugees are coming from Syria, which is not a country in which there are generally objections to western styles of dress, buying, selling or drinking alcohol, etc (except recently, in areas controlled by ISIS, obviously). I think the headmaster is simply projecting Daily Mail-type prejudicial stereotypes about Islam onto the refugees because Syrian citizens are "mainly Muslims".

    its possible , the article did mention problems in the local open public swimming pools but otherwise only 2 possibilities a bit of PC racism or there is a problem but it ought not be the local kids that have to change their behaviour.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #6490
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Robin thinks he's being "a bit racist", and I must say I'm inclined to agree.
    You might be referring to silverharp's post where the "a bit racist" text was included.

    FWIW, Robin thinks that the headmaster may be stuck between a rock and a hard place - if the students in his care are being hassled, even inadvertently as the headmaster points out, then expectations need to be clearly set, on both sides, as to how people should behave and can behave in a free society.

    The headmaster also appears to understand that "two cultures are coming together" and so long as there's a clear understanding of expectations and especially, when normal societal rules will resume - the crucial bit that seems to be missing, though probably inadvertently - then I don't really see what the problem is. If there are no plans to resume normality, then, yes, there is a problem which needs to be addressed.


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    #6491
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    And another new "persecution" story - this one from a recent islamic convert who works as an airline attendant who claims she was relieved of her duty because she refused to serve alcohol on a plane:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/05/travel/muslim-flight-attendant-feat/index.html


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    #6492
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Home to Assad? How nice. And Vlad (the impaler) is on their side. How nice.
    What could possibly go wrong?
    Well, Islamic State could win the war.
    Or it could just go on permanently.
    Those are the only other alternatives available.
    Not sure if you are aware, but the secular opposition to Assad that the USA were arming have given up at this stage, and joined forces with the Islamic militants.
    The USA does not want I.S. to win, but does not want Assad to win either.
    The EU and the UN will not intervene, nor will China. So that just leaves Russia to step in and put an end to it. It probably won't take long if Putin gets serious.


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    #6493
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    There are reports that at least one of our religious friends has been taking advantage of the European refugee crisis by converting muslims to christianity, a process which allows the converts to claim plausibly that they'll be persecuted should they return home:

    http://mashable.com/2015/09/05/refugees-converting-to-christianity/

    In 2013, the local bishop declared it "a miracle" that so many refugees were coming forward:
    Apparently there are quite a few Iranians and Pakistanis mixed in with this latest convoy of "Syrians" so its good to know they have this alternative means of claiming asylum when their nationality is queried.


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    #6494
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,068 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    robindch wrote: »
    You might be referring to silverharp's post where the "a bit racist" text was included.
    My apologies to both of you. You're quite right.


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    #6495
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    robindch wrote: »
    And another new "persecution" story - this one from a recent islamic convert who works as an airline attendant who claims she was relieved of her duty because she refused to serve alcohol on a plane:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/05/travel/muslim-flight-attendant-feat/index.html

    I fully expect all of Kim Davis's supporters to rally around her immediately.


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    #6496
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I fully expect all of Kim Davis's supporters to rally around her immediately.

    Yeah, I'd say there'd be a risk of her being trampled by the supportive hordes allright.


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    #6497
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    robindch wrote: »
    And another new "persecution" story - this one from a recent islamic convert who works as an airline attendant who claims she was relieved of her duty because she refused to serve alcohol on a plane:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/05/travel/muslim-flight-attendant-feat/index.html


    Always the n00bs. Go to some parts of England and Scotland and you'll see many an off-licence run by muslims.


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    #6498
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Practicing muslims, or people who happen to come from muslim families?


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    #6499
    R and R
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭R and R


    As soon as you say "Them and us" "Christian and Muslim" - that's sectarianism. Regarding defending our borders - I wonder what that would mean if it was accepted globally. What would that mean to the hundreds of thousands of Irish living overseas. I agree that this has to be managed, but this is a humanitarian crisis, not an Irish one.


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    #6500
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    R and R wrote: »
    Regarding defending our borders - I wonder what that would mean if it was accepted globally.
    Well, for example the US federal govt. spends $18 Billion (yes billion, not million) on border security.
    Can you imagine situation where Washington criticised the state of Texas for trying to build a fence with its own money? Neither can I. Yet Hungary is being denounced for doing just that.


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    #6501
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    Apparently there are quite a few Iranians and Pakistanis mixed in with this latest convoy of "Syrians" so its good to know they have this alternative means of claiming asylum when their nationality is queried.
    Seems that some European countries have expressed a preference for letting in christian believers over islamic believers:

    http://qz.com/496713/even-philosophers-cant-agree-on-how-we-should-help-refugees-or-whether-we-should/


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    #6502
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    robindch wrote: »
    Seems that some European countries have expressed a preference for letting in christian believers over islamic believers:

    http://qz.com/496713/even-philosophers-cant-agree-on-how-we-should-help-refugees-or-whether-we-should/

    And then there's the muslims converting to christianity because they think it'll help their asylum claim

    http://www.arabnews.com/news/801751


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    #6503
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    And then there's the muslims converting to christianity because they think it'll help their asylum claim

    http://www.arabnews.com/news/801751


    A Saudi paper slagging off Iranian Shia. Well I never.


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    #6504
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    A Saudi paper slagging off Iranian Shia. Well I never.

    Have you anything to counter the story itself other than your usual outburst of snark?


    In other news Saudi Arabia responds to the Syrian refugee crisis by promising to build 200 mosques in Germany....allegedly

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/10/refugee-crisis-richard-dawkins-saudi-arabia-mosques-in-germany_n_8115492.html?1441893686


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    #6505
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I reckon Africans should issue a class action suit against Christianity

    http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/tragedy-for-christian-copying-jesus-40-day-fast/
    A 73-year old Christian man trying to emulate Jesus by going without food for 40 days and 40 nights has reportedly died a month into his abstention from all nourishment.



    Khulu Reinfirst Manyuka reportedly left his Zimbabwe home on June 15 and headed into the wilderness to pray, redirecting his attention away from worldly things and instead toward God, according to Nehanda Radio.

    The report says Manyuka was known by his family and local community as “a very spiritual person whose faith could move mountains.”

    “He was a very spiritual man. It’s unfortunate he had to die this way,” said a close relative, requesting anonymity.

    Although he was trying to copy or even break Jesus’ epic fast of 40 days, he fell short by 10 days.

    “After a month we got the sad news of his death,” the relative noted.

    According to family members, Manyuka had no history of illness.

    “He was a healthy and religious old man who did not even look his age,” said one family member.


    Nehanda Radio says the precise day of Manyuka’s death remains a mystery to his family and friends as he was alone in the wilderness, and his corpse was found by a stranger who subsequently notified police.

    Local police said Manyuka isn’t the first to die from fasting, with “numerous” other cases reported.

    “We have received such reports before, but we cannot stop the public from fasting,” a police spokesperson said.



    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #6506
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    People on this thread are quite heartless. Im sure the man was mentally ill, as thats not a normal thing to do. I'm sure his family are very upset.


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    #6507
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    wakka12 wrote: »
    People on this thread are quite heartless. Im sure the man was mentally ill, as thats not a normal thing to do. I'm sure his family are very upset.
    A couple of points, first, this is the hazards of belief thread. You might have a point if it had been posted in the Funnies thread. Secondly, he was not mentally ill, he was religious. That is a very important, though admittedly sometimes difficult to discern, distinction.

    MrP


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    #6508
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    silverharp wrote: »
    I reckon Africans should issue a class action suit against Christianity

    http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/tragedy-for-christian-copying-jesus-40-day-fast/
    The really sad thing being that Jesus probably didn't fast for 40 days & nights. Not sure where I read it (could have been here), that "40" in the original text colloquially meant, "a long time". It's historically a non-specific number. Like "Going for 40 winks". So it was probably no more than two weeks, if even.

    There are also suggestions that "fasting" in the original text probably didn't refer to total abstinence, but rather abstinence from prepared or cooked food and regular meals. He may still have eaten and drank whatever slim pickings were available in the desert.

    In short trying to recreate 40 days and nights specifically without food is folly anyway because not even the original fable claimed that this happened.


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    #6509
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235062/Blonde-Danish-teenager-15-murdered-mother-kitchen-knife-watching-ISIS-videos-beheading-British-hostages-online.html
    A blonde Danish teenager who murdered her mother after watching ISIS' sickening filmed beheadings of British hostages has been jailed along with her older jihadi lover.
    Lisa Borch was aged only 15 when in October last year she spent hours on YouTube watching footage of the savage decapitations of David Haines and Alan Henning.
    Afterwards she and her radical Muslim boyfriend Bakhtiar Mohammed Abdulla, 29, took a long-bladed kitchen knife and stabbed her mother Tina Römer Holtegaard at least 20 times at the home they shared in rural Kvissel.


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    #6510
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    biko wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235062/Blonde-Danish-teenager-15-murdered-mother-kitchen-knife-watching-ISIS-videos-beheading-British-hostages-online.html

    Is there a particular relevance to the fact that she is blonde?

    MrP


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    #6511
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,869 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Maybe the Mail are just being thoughtful towards their blind readership?


This discussion has been closed.
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