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Beggars

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    #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    How come there is no beggers or homeless people outside the cities? That's where they will make the most money I suppose..
    or maybe... just maybe... urban living diminishes social bonds and relieves the social pressure on families to intervene. If you let your nephew sleep on the bridge in Bundoran or Borrisokane, the whole village would be aghast at your behaviour. Do that in Dublin, hardly anybody cares—firstly becomes almost nobody notices; secondly, because they hardly care: urban environments promote individualist behaviours.

    Furthermore, urban environments create the conditions in which people with certain socioeconomic and genetic predispositions can become vulnerable, such as drug trafficking. There is very little availability for drugs in small rural towns because there is an insufficient potential market to justify the risk.

    Basically, urban and rural environements just throw up different sets of problems.

    People in urban environments partially accept higher incomes for increased exposure to crime & related behaviour. They offset these adverse exposures by secluding themselves in hamlets of relative peace if they can afford it, or by locking themselves behind heavy gates.

    People in rural environments accept greater security & solidarity in exchange for lower incomes.


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    #93
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    VdP gave a family I know two handouts towards their rent and deposit, the rest of it was covered by a councillor in the town. Between the 2 vdp and the councillor they had their deposit and rent covered, they're far from being destitute either.

    They also apparently help with court fines. I would rather go into pennies and buy hats and gloves and socks and give them to people in sleeping bags.


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    #94
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    or maybe... just maybe... urban living diminishes social bonds and relieves the social pressure on families to intervene. If you let your nephew sleep on the bridge in Bundoran or Borrisokane, the whole village would be aghast at your behaviour. Do that in Dublin, hardly anybody cares—firstly becomes almost nobody notices; secondly, because they hardly care.

    Furthermore, urban environments create the conditions in which people with certain socioeconomic and genetic predispositions can become vulnerable, such as drug trafficking. There is very little availability for drugs in small rural towns because there is an insufficient potential market to justify the risk.

    Basically, urban and rural environements just throw up different sets of problems.

    People in urban environments partially accept higher incomes for increased exposure to crime & related behaviour. They offset these adverse exposures by secluding themselves in hamlets of relative peace.

    People in rural environments accept greater security & solidarity in exchange for lower incomes.



    There's only so much enabling you can do. If your nephew is stealing from you, leaving drug paraphernalia around your house where your kids are, constantly bringing trouble to your door, youd have him out on his ear under the nearest bridge and you'd be right. There's only so much help you can give someone who doesn't want help, and pandering and allowing them to carry on as they like, that's not doing anyone any good. Not you, not them. Doesn't matter what part of the country you're from


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    #95
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    There's only so much help you can give someone who doesn't want help, and pandering and allowing them to carry on as they like, that's not doing anyone any good. Not you, not them. Doesn't matter what part of the country you're from
    Sure, I'm not justifying it, but these pressures are probably very real.

    I would imagine parents of a troubled teenager would be a lot more hesitant about letting their son sleep rough in a small village than in a large city.

    I'm just trying to explain why homelessness is more of an urban phenomenon; the above is just one of the reasons.


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    #96
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I think it's an urban phenomenon because these people could come from 2nd/3rd generation drug addicts/troubled homes.
    That wouldn't have been as predominant in rural areas years and years ago. There's more money, begging opportunities in a bigger city, more footfall more money. I live in a rural area, and everybody knows the junkies in my town by name. If a junkie approached people looking for money, chances are they'd be told to **** off or the guards would move them on.
    In a smaller town the guards know the scumbags and troublemakers by name, they're probably only waiting for them to sneeze before they can have them locked up again (and rightly so). They get away with a lot less down here than they would in a city like Dublin.

    There's more social housing, it's a smaller community so there would be less tolerance to see someone out on the streets. (Pressure on local councillors and county councils).

    It's a whole host of reasons, not just because people from Dublin love their kids less


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    #97
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I think it's an urban phenomenon because these people could come from 2nd/3rd generation drug addicts/troubled homes.
    That wouldn't have been as predominant in rural areas years and years ago. There's more money, begging opportunities in a bigger city, more footfall more money. I live in a rural area, and everybody knows the junkies in my town by name. If a junkie approached people looking for money, chances are they'd be told to **** off or the guards would move them on.
    In a smaller town the guards know the scumbags and troublemakers by name, they're probably only waiting for them to sneeze before they can have them locked up again (and rightly so). They get away with a lot less down here than they would in a city like Dublin.

    There's more social housing, it's a smaller community so there would be less tolerance to see someone out on the streets. (Pressure on local councillors and county councils).

    It's a whole host of reasons, not just because people from Dublin love their kids less

    Its not that they "get away" with anything , there are practically no services or very limited services outside Dublin for an addict or even for someone without an addiction.
    Its inevitable a homeless individual from a small rural environment will graduate towards a city.


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    #98
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Its not that they "get away" with anything , there are practically no services or very limited services outside Dublin for an addict or even for someone without an addiction.
    Its inevitable a homeless individual from a small rural environment will graduate towards a city.


    I meant in terms of even just begging. In local towns you'll have the guards just waiting for the well known troublemakers/junkies to put a foot out of place before they're arrested and sent back to prison. For example, a really horrible person from our town is due to be released from the midlands prison some time this month. I'm betting hell be back in prison within 3 weeks. It's been the same story for as long as I remember him. He'll be out and back in as soon as the guards can get something on him, they won't have him around the town for too long, they never do.


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    #99
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    OP don't feel bad, really ... it's all an act these people have more money then you or me ... they are rolling in it.

    These people make good livings out of their little scams


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    #100
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    the sooner a country goes cashless, the quicker the beggars will disappear from the streets. Denmark are planning to go cashless by 2016.

    In fact a cashless society would be very tough on really needy people.


    .


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    #101
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I meant in terms of even just begging. In local towns you'll have the guards just waiting for the well known troublemakers/junkies to put a foot out of place before they're arrested and sent back to prison. For example, a really horrible person from our town is due to be released from the midlands prison some time this month. I'm betting hell be back in prison within 3 weeks. It's been the same story for as long as I remember him. He'll be out and back in as soon as the guards can get something on him, they won't have him around the town for too long, they never do.

    I get what you are saying , I always have trouble with the term junkie, Its not a crime to be an addict.I work a lot with addicts and many have never been in imprisoned and the odd one has never been convicted of anything serious , that said I'm not defending any addicts behaviour.


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    #102
    ISIS are sound
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 14 ✭ISIS are sound


    kupus wrote: »
    Time for Roma to be shipped out en masse. The add nothing to the economy or welfare of Ireland.

    There I've said it.
    And you know deep in your own hearts a lot of you are thinking the same thing but don't dare say it because it doesn't seem or look right.

    And I'll admit to it that it's not right. But a lot of choices in life are not nice.
    But Roma are a problem. And the way to deal with it is deportation.

    They literally are parasites.


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    #103
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    ISIS are sound wrote: »
    They literally are parasites.

    I am sure you will have a long and eventful time in Boards.


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    #104
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,351 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    It is fair to say that the Roma gypsies have no real place in Ireland. It should be a simple process to deport them all and let the EU place a lifetime ban on them from setting foot into Ireland again when criminal charges are placed upon them.

    The junkies have not got a perfect reputation here either. I very rarely see them in rural areas. They are mostly city bound thugs who just want to inflict more damage on honest hard working people who are living here and paying their way and are trying to live a decent life with all of their loved ones.

    I have encountered quite a few beggars in my time mostly of the junkie & gypsy variety. Let's just say that their crime is mostly a damp squib, not compared to carry weapons and endanger innocent people, and we should preferably ship them out to places like Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iraq and Iran to give them an experience in how a life of pure misery & destitution is encountered by those scum who are really in charge in these coutntries.

    But there a few honest examples in where there a huge number of them who the real homeless who are Irish who are not the junkie variety and do not wish to cause any harm to people living here. This is what the government need to address in terms of real help down out of their luck people who are really living on hard times and cannot find a suitable way out to their current nightmare.

    What the government need to do is give the real homeless who are being victims of the roma gypsies crime ring to get rid of their power grab by deporting the entire bunch of roma back to their homeland. Permanent & suitable accommodation should be given to the victims of homelessness to help them lead a much happier & healthier life. But the thing is government do seem to be powerless in front of the EU in trying to tackle the serious welfare issues across the topic of homelessness properly.

    The government should first implement radical measures to stamp out the authority of the ruthless roma gangs in Ireland. Measures such as gaining criminal records from Interpol & Europol to find out what crimes they have committed in other countries on whether they have a link to operating in the major cities across Ireland.

    Impose a lifetime ban on the roma gypsy gangs from coming into Ireland and have them spend jail times of at least 20 years in prison when they return to their home country to pay for their crimes.


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    #105
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    It is fair to say that the Roma gypsies have no real place in Ireland. It should be a simple process to deport them all and let the EU place a lifetime ban on them from setting foot into Ireland again when criminal charges are placed upon them.

    The junkies have not got a perfect reputation here either. I very rarely see them in rural areas. They are mostly city bound thugs who just want to inflict more damage on honest hard working people who are living here and paying their way and are trying to live a decent life with all of their loved ones.

    I have encountered quite a few beggars in my time mostly of the junkie & gypsy variety. Let's just say that their crime is mostly a damp squib, not compared to carry weapons and endanger innocent people, and we should preferably ship them out to places like Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iraq and Iran to give them an experience in how a life of pure misery & destitution is encountered by those scum who are really in charge in these coutntries.

    But there a few honest examples in where there a huge number of them who the real homeless who are Irish who are not the junkie variety and do not wish to cause any harm to people living here. This is what the government need to address in terms of real help down out of their luck people who are really living on hard times and cannot find a suitable way out to their current nightmare.

    What the government need to do is give the real homeless who are being victims of the roma gypsies crime ring to get rid of their power grab by deporting the entire bunch of roma back to their homeland. Permanent & suitable accommodation should be given to the victims of homelessness to help them lead a much happier & healthier life. But the thing is government do seem to be powerless in front of the EU in trying to tackle the serious welfare issues across the topic of homelessness properly.

    The government should first implement radical measures to stamp out the authority of the ruthless roma gangs in Ireland. Measures such as gaining criminal records from Interpol & Europol to find out what crimes they have committed in other countries on whether they have a link to operating in the major cities across Ireland.

    Impose a lifetime ban on the roma gypsy gangs from coming into Ireland and have them spend jail times of at least 20 years in prison when they return to their home country to pay for their crimes.

    I like your posting style ,,you suggest deporting Roma to Saudi Arabia, North Korea ,Iran and Iraq for a lifetime of misery and destitution and then back to wherever they came from for twenty years in jail.

    You clearly put a lot of thought into your post .


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    #106
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    mcko wrote: »
    Scum the lot of em, move them on,in Cork City last week a guy sitting under an ATM you had to lean over him to access the machine.I am sure the Gardai must have seen him as well.

    Seriously? I would have told him to move out of the way.

    What is the actual law in Ireland on street begging? Why is it not being enforced? I hear all the time about a lack of resources etc, but does that mean we can do what we want? Perhaps I will not get road tax next year and if I get stopped I will explain I had a lack of resources but assure them Im doing my best. I wonder how I will get on with that excuse.


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    #107
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Begging in central dublin is a business, plain and simple. It has pitches, and it has quotas.


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    #108
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,003 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Not a very good "business" is it.


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    #109
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,351 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    There is another thing about the homeless in London that I was about to mention. A lot of genuine cases of the homeless there mainly go around on London's nightbus service for 24 hours a day for 7 days a week.

    What I have seen in documentaries about London's bus networks they don't harm a fly at all. They are geniunely lovely people who want to use the bus as a retreat of not encountering danger when on the streets of London. They get free journeys on the buses all the time and the drivers who are filmed on the documentaries do know them which is a nice bonus for those guys.

    It is a pity that Dublin Bus doesn't have a system like that on it's bus network that often. Although I wouldn't want junkies or gypsies abusing that position all the time either.


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    #110
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Tony EH wrote:
    Not a very good "business" is it.


    A good business is one that makes lots of profit.

    There obviously making plenty money otherwise they wouldn't be doing it?


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    #111
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,003 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Says who?

    If it was great, we'd all be at it.

    It isn't very lucrative in real terms.

    They're doing it because they are in a desperate situation of some kind.


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    #112
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Tony EH wrote:
    They're doing it because they are in a desperate situation of some kind.


    I'm talking about these Roma gangs. You think they are in some kind of desperate situation?

    Most other Irish beggars are junkies and alcoholics who spend any money made on their addiction


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    #113
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,003 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Well, if you're talking about the Roma, you won't get any argument from me about them.
    Tony EH wrote: »
    There's good and bad, like all walks of life.

    Years ago, I bumped into a man in his 40's who was on the streets. He said he hadn't eaten for a couple of days. I'd just got a pizza in Apache and said that he could take half. We sat outside Christ Church and ate the pizza.

    He said that he'd ended up on the streets for about a year after his wife and him "had trouble". She and the two kids were still in the house. He said he left one day, because it had become "unbearable". He'd been picking spots around the city to sleep most nights. Cardboard was "his friend".

    I didn't press the issue.

    Anyway, we finished up the pizza. I apologised and said I had no money, I was walking home. He said no worries, that the pizza helped greatly, thanked me and we parted ways.

    That changed my opinion of beggars.

    The Roma on the other hand, I wouldn't give them the steam off my piss, because with them it's a profession. In nearly every country I've been to in Europe, they operate a begging scam. In some places, like Paris, they're pretty blatant at how organised they are.

    I have noticed that their numbers over here have dwindled. There used to be quite a few on Grafton Street. They probably got the hump after the paddies proved difficult and buggered off back to wherever.


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    #114
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    The ones at LUAS machines and atms are the worst. very aggressive, one asked me for money when I was buying a ticket but I told him I needed it and that I was sorry. I really wasn't sorry as he appeared to be under the infuence of drugs or alcohol, glazed eyes and meth head teeth. Anyway he called me a greedy ****ing cnut and threatened to stab me with his keys , this was at 1pm in front of my friends.
    he ran away when a harda happened to be walking toward the station.

    sadly it has soured my view of all beggars really , and it's disgraceful that this could happen to tourists here.


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    #115
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    Seriously? I would have told him to move out of the way.

    What is the actual law in Ireland on street begging? Why is it not being enforced? I hear all the time about a lack of resources etc, but does that mean we can do what we want? Perhaps I will not get road tax next year and if I get stopped I will explain I had a lack of resources but assure them Im doing my best. I wonder how I will get on with that excuse.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/high-court-ruling-helps-put-beggars-back-on-our-streets-29210883.html

    "The High Court case was brought in the names of two men – Florin Rostas, a Roma gypsy, and John Maughan.
    Their lawyers argued successfully that under the Act the gardai must establish that they did not have a licence to solicit money from the public."

    the police cant do much when they have the legal profession hamstringing them at every turn


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    #116
    rafatoni
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭rafatoni


    Roma in North Korea, that be some crack alright.

    I'm sure Kim Jing Un would welcome them with open arms :)


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    #117
    SHOVELLER
    Registered Users Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Ha! Says Richard Guiney on the Journal. Come on. Richard Guiney has been on a PR crusade against beggars and homeless people for years.

    And he is dead right. Beggars, homeless, junkies and chuggers are a deterrent to business. You know people who actually contribute to society.

    It would be a dream if these parasites were banned permanently.

    There is NO poverty in Ireland so there is no excuse.


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    #118
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    SHOVELLER wrote: »
    And he is dead right. Beggars, homeless, junkies and chuggers are a deterrent to business. You know people who actually contribute to society.

    It would be a dream if these parasites were banned permanently.

    There is NO poverty in Ireland so there is no excuse.

    As much as I cant stand beggars, thats is a load of absolute nonsense. There is a lot of poverty in Ireland, an awful lot of it.


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    #119
    SHOVELLER
    Registered Users Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    As much as I cant stand beggars, thats is a load of absolute nonsense. There is a lot of poverty in Ireland, an awful lot of it.

    Explain how. The so called poor are all entitled to social welfare.

    The only poverty is the inability to spend money properly.

    Poverty in Ireland is an age old myth.


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    #120
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    SHOVELLER wrote: »
    Explain how. The so called poor are all entitled to social welfare.

    The only poverty is the inability to spend money properly.

    Poverty in Ireland is an age old myth.

    Wrong. Not everyone is entitled to welfare at all. Many many people have to qualify as being habitually resident and many people have difficulty passing this or even proving it. Therefore they are not entitled to any welfare whatsoever and they would die on the street if it was not for charitable organisations providing the shelter that society pretends exists to protect vulnerable people. Do not even bother to argue with me on this point because I am correct.

    To obtain rent allowance applicants have to find a property that is not more expensive than a specific rate for that area. The levels are beyond ridiculous and even though you look at every available property on daft.ie, you would find that inhabitable properties are almost impossible to find. Therefore a lot of people end up spending their JSA or whatever benefit they receive on their rent, leaving them with next to nothing.

    There are also a lot of people who for one reason or another have found themselves in crippling debt and are seriously struggling to put food on the table.


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    #121
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SHOVELLER wrote: »
    And he is dead right. Beggars, homeless, junkies and chuggers are a deterrent to business. You know people who actually contribute to society.

    It would be a dream if these parasites were banned permanently.
    I agree entirely, "Shoveller" (what do you shovel?)
    Ban homelessness! Ban "junkies"! Horrible word.
    You order the bracelets, I'll print the tee shirts.
    #BanHomeless


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