Beggars

SHOVELLER

TireeTerror wrote: »

Wrong. Not everyone is entitled to welfare at all. Many many people have to qualify as being habitually resident and many people have difficulty passing this or even proving it. Therefore they are not entitled to any welfare whatsoever and they would die on the street if it was not for charitable organisations providing the shelter that society pretends exists to protect vulnerable people. Do not even bother to argue with me on this point because I am correct.

To obtain rent allowance applicants have to find a property that is not more expensive than a specific rate for that area. The levels are beyond ridiculous and even though you look at every available property on daft.ie, you would find that inhabitable properties are almost impossible to find. Therefore a lot of people end up spending their JSA or whatever benefit they receive on their rent, leaving them with next to nothing.

There are also a lot of people who for one reason or another have found themselves in crippling debt and are seriously struggling to put food on the table.

There are Community Welfare officers who "tide them over".

How about getting a job? In an economy that is improving jobs are plentiful but then why bother when you can moan while picking up the never ending dole.

Nobody is starving in Ireland. Utter reprehensible rubbish.

So far this thread has gone the usual "beggars are nasty scumbags on the make or genuine and lovely".

I actually have met pretty nice types on the make, and unpleasant but genuine ones. Crazy crazy world.

I think my favourite is the ban homelessness, addiction etc. suggestion. But why stop there? Surely we can do better and ban hunger, wars and unhappiness too?

Penny Tration

SHOVELLER wrote: »

There are Community Welfare officers who "tide them over".

How about getting a job? In an economy that is improving jobs are plentiful but then why bother when you can moan while picking up the never ending dole.

Nobody is starving in Ireland. Utter reprehensible rubbish.

Poverty does not mean the person is starving on the streets.

Poverty is considered to be when you have to choose between food, heat and electricity.

I did that for a few months (chose food and electricity!), and I'm working.

I earn sweet fcuk all, but I'm upskilling. I would have more disposable income on the dole, but I choose to work. I'm under the poverty line, but lucky in that I'm very damn good at budgeting.

Don't throw out crap about there being no poverty in Ireland unless you understand what poverty actually means.

MarkY91

Sure I saw a homeless man in Las Vegas whip out a phone to make a call...

I feel sorry for some of the Irish non junkie homeless. Couldn't give two **** about a begging heroin addict or a Romanian though

- harsh but true.

TireeTerror

SHOVELLER wrote: »

There are Community Welfare officers who "tide them over".

How about getting a job? In an economy that is improving jobs are plentiful but then why bother when you can moan while picking up the never ending dole.

Nobody is starving in Ireland. Utter reprehensible rubbish.

See when I said "dont argue with me about it"? I meant it. You do not have a full understanding at all and really must live in some odd isolated corner of the country or are blind.

If someone was refused on the basis of not being habitually resident then they would not be provided with Supplementary Benefit to "tide them over".

They would be told.....why dont you try Saint Vincent De Paul? That is the actual advice provided by these so called community welfare officers. That means the safety net is not there for them at all.

There are many more unemployed job seekers than there are available vacancies.

Go and try and get a job when you have no fixed abode and have no clean clothes and you have been living on the streets. I should know better than to waste my time trying to convince you because I have met many like you before and its wasted energy, I just hope by posting in here others will not be swayed into agreeing with you by thinking there is even the slightest of truth in your absolutely insane postings.

ComfortKid

TireeTerror wrote:

As much as I cant stand beggars, thats is a load of absolute nonsense. There is a lot of poverty in Ireland, an awful lot of it.

Self inflicted poverty. Theres plenty free money there for anyone who decides to use it

ComfortKid

SHOVELLER wrote:

How about getting a job? In an economy that is improving jobs are plentiful but then why bother when you can moan while picking up the never ending dole.

I agreed with you until this point. Jobs aren't plentiful. Maybe in certain sectors but I'm having serious difficulty finding employment, not from the lack of trying either.

Penny Tration

ComfortKid wrote: »

Self inflicted poverty. Theres plenty free money there for anyone who decides to use it

Tell that to people who didn't satisfy the habitual residency clause, and are therefore entitled to zero.
Or the self employed person who had to close his business.

TireeTerror

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-economy-is-growing-and-so-is-poverty-1.2077675

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/silc/2012/silc_2012.pdf

Tony EH

SHOVELLER wrote: »

There are Community Welfare officers who "tide them over".

How about getting a job? In an economy that is improving jobs are plentiful but then why bother when you can moan while picking up the never ending dole.

Nobody is starving in Ireland. Utter reprehensible rubbish.

You haven't the first clue.

TireeTerror

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Tell that to people who didn't satisfy the habitual residency clause, and are therefore entitled to zero.
Or the self employed person who had to close his business.

Exactly. Tell that to the woman I was talking to the other day who owns a small gift shop. She ended up in tears as she was explaining the unbearable financial stress she was under. She had not had a single holiday in years. She owned the building and has a mortgage on it and therefore has to keep going to try and keep the bank of her back. She also has a mortgage on her home which she bought during the boom when prices were high.

If she gave in and closed the shop her staff would all be entitled to welfare, she wouldn't be.

She was not sitting there moaning about her situation, it just came up in conversation about when I commented on how things appeared to be improving and she literally cracked before my very eyes.

wakka12

TireeTerror wrote: »

As much as I cant stand beggars, thats is a load of absolute nonsense. There is a lot of poverty in Ireland, an awful lot of it.

Well its all relative isn't it. There are plenty of poor people in Ireland if you're comparing their income/wealth to the rich of Ireland. But even the poorest Irish are considerably wealthier than a good 4 Billion people in the developing world. And there are no irish people going hungry. So really the 'poverty' in Ireland isn't a huge issue

TireeTerror

wakka12 wrote: »

Well its all relative isn't it. There are plenty of poor people in Ireland if you're comparing their income/wealth to the rich of Ireland. But even the poorest Irish are considerably wealthier than a good 4 Billion people in the developing world. And there are no irish people going hungry. So really the 'poverty' in Ireland isn't a huge issue

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. There are many people in poverty and many have a constant battle to eat, heat their homes and makes ends meet. Never mind the non-nationals who also reside here. To suggest nobody in Ireland is hungry is literally mind blowing. Of course there are, who do you think the foodbanks are feeding? Go and speak to ANYONE who volunteers for Saint Vincent De Paul and ask them if they meet people every single day who are hungry and struggling to cope.

Reiver

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There is another thing about the homeless in London that I was about to mention. A lot of genuine cases of the homeless there mainly go around on London's nightbus service for 24 hours a day for 7 days a week.

What I have seen in documentaries about London's bus networks they don't harm a fly at all. They are geniunely lovely people who want to use the bus as a retreat of not encountering danger when on the streets of London. They get free journeys on the buses all the time and the drivers who are filmed on the documentaries do know them which is a nice bonus for those guys.

It is a pity that Dublin Bus doesn't have a system like that on it's bus network that often. Although I wouldn't want junkies or gypsies abusing that position all the time either.

Saw that in Prague on the trams, they run 24 hour and a lot of the homeless guys hop on it in winter when it regularly drops below zero. You see it in some of the cities in Poland too, they'll hop on even for a 20minute ride just to get warm again. Fair reek of urine and alcohol off them. In Kraków the police just tend to get them to move on. That said, I haven't seen any of them cause trouble on the transport.

In the bigger touristy cities it does seem to be quite organised. They all seem to know each other. My feelings are a bit mixed towards them since I was sleeping on a park bench in Krakow one night when some lad started groping my pockets looking for my wallet, I ended up waking up with a roar of "KURWA!" and punching him.

There's a Roma woman who begs near the atm in my town, another by a supermarket. Came out one day with a big loaf of bread and some pasta for her, she just shook her head and kept saying "money money". One of my colleagues told me she lives in a village just outside the town and hops on the train every day to come in and beg.

wakka12

TireeTerror wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. There are many people in poverty and many have a constant battle to eat, heat their homes and makes ends meet. Never mind the non-nationals who also reside here. To suggest nobody in Ireland is hungry is literally mind blowing. Of course there are, who do you think the foodbanks are feeding? Go and speak to ANYONE who volunteers for Saint Vincent De Paul and ask them if they meet people every single day who are hungry and struggling to cope.

So how many people have died of starvation in Ireland since the year 2000..?

TireeTerror

wakka12 wrote: »

So how many people have died of starvation in Ireland since the year 2000..?

So your definition of poverty is that they have to literally die of starvation.

I really hope it is just your post that is utterly stupid.

wakka12

TireeTerror wrote: »

So your definition of poverty is that they have to literally die of starvation.

I really hope it is just your post that is utterly stupid.

No but considering literally nobody here has died of starvation then the hunger problems couldn't be that bad

Allyall

wakka12 wrote: »

No but considering literally nobody here has died of starvation then the hunger problems couldn't be that bad

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-by-one-four-starved-themselves-to-death-in-house-26099509.html

suicide_circus

Allyall wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-by-one-four-starved-themselves-to-death-in-house-26099509.html

That was a suicide, not due to poverty

TireeTerror

wakka12 wrote: »

No but considering literally nobody here has died of starvation then the hunger problems couldn't be that bad

Your apparent lack of empathy is sad. Clearly your encounter with that homeless person who threatened you has caused a massive chip on your shoulder. I suggest getting over it as your posts are an embarrassment to society as a whole.

Many people chose to eat a little but cannot afford to eat AND heat their homes. Many have died in recent times due to fuel poverty.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cold-snap-blamed-for-dublin-flat-deaths-219699.html

http://alone.ie/the-cold-hurts-the-old/

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?con=334

I would like to quote a fact mentioned in that last link. It is utterly shameful that this is the case considering how much colder it is in Norway compared to Ireland.

"Countries with the mildest climates, like Ireland, suffer most during cold weather because culturally we are not geared for the cold. In cold countries like Norway, inhabitants pay close attention to housing design, warm clothing and the proportion of income spent on heating. According to figures from the EHRA, Ireland experiences a 30-32% increase in deaths each Winter, while Norway only sees a 2% increase."

Tony EH

Are people that stupid that they don't understand that there are degrees of poverty?

Just because people aren't literally starving to death in Ireland doesn't mean that there is no poverty here, or that some people don't go hungry.

When you have part of your population starving to death, you have failed utterly as a nation, but that doesn't mean that it has to get to that level before we can recognise that poverty exists.

corner of hells

wakka12 wrote: »

So how many people have died of starvation in Ireland since the year 2000..?

People don't die of starvation in Ireland because food services are provided by charities that keep them alive. Ive worked in drop in centres , drug services and homeless services and Ive made decisions around handing out food to people that I feel are at real risk .

The poster mentioning HRC here knows exactly what they are talking about , there are individuals in Ireland with no income other than maybe a one supplemental payment .

suicide_circus

^^^^ I would say a decent proportion of that relates to the unwillingness of elderly people in ireland to spend money on adequate heating their homes not due to lack of money in an of itself. The old age pension is really quite generous here. But older people would tend to worry about money and save it rather than "waste" it on heat. I've seen it myself. Hardy thrifty people who grew up in the 1930/40s in Ireland would often see heating as an extravagance and would rather have a cup of tea and a hot water bottle than actually switching the heat on.

wakka12

Allyall wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-by-one-four-starved-themselves-to-death-in-house-26099509.html

'Committed suicide'

TireeTerror

wakka12 wrote: »

'Committed suicide'

Youre just trolling now.

wakka12

TireeTerror wrote: »

Youre just trolling now.

Seriously? I said nobody in Ireland dies of starvation and your man posts a link about 4 people who committed suicide by starving themselves to try and prove me wrong and Im the troll? Ridiculous

briany

kupus wrote: »

Time for Roma to be shipped out en masse. The add nothing to the economy or welfare of Ireland.

There I've said it.
And you know deep in your own hearts a lot of you are thinking the same thing but don't dare say it because it doesn't seem or look right.

And I'll admit to it that it's not right. But a lot of choices in life are not nice.
But Roma are a problem. And the way to deal with it is deportation.

Deport them to where? Who will take them? Nobody wants the problem of more Romani beggars in their country. Their places of birth don't really want them, wherever they entered from probably doesn't want them, and the Romani people mightn't even be telling where they came from if they don't want to go back, and there may not even be any kind of documentation to trace their origin.

Mesrine65

briany wrote: »

Deport them to where?

Antartica...sorted

briany

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Antartica...sorted

That's funny, but there doesn't really seem to be much of an answer to this question because I think pretty much every European government would like to send Romani beggars elsewhere or any Romani perceived to be involved in criminality. Let's be honest, there are people who would like to see their country's whole Roma population deported regardless of whether they're involved in criminality or not just because of their fear/suspicion of the people and the culture.

jackofalltrades

TireeTerror wrote: »

Many people chose to eat a little but cannot afford to eat AND heat their homes. Many have died in recent times due to fuel poverty.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cold-snap-blamed-for-dublin-flat-deaths-219699.html

That article don't conclusively prove your point. This is said about the first couple.

However, it is believed freezing conditions over the past few days triggered the couple’s deaths, as there were signs electric heaters in the home had not been switched on in recent days.

Autopsy results also suggested the pair had eaten little food in recent days but had consumed large quantities of alcohol.

In the second case the heating was working.
There seemed to be other factors involved as well and DCC were not found at fault.

That said I don't doubt that there are people struggling to heat their homes.
That said when it comes to the elderly they should be provided with more suitable accommodation.
They need schemes with small, highly insulated apartments that are cheap to heat.
Although I don't know if these would be popular.