Beggars

suicide_circus

briany wrote: »

That's funny, but there doesn't really seem to be much of an answer to this question because I think pretty much every European government would like to send Romani beggars elsewhere or any Romani perceived to be involved in criminality. Let's be honest, there are people who would like to see their country's whole Roma population deported regardless of whether they're involved in criminality or not just because of their fear/suspicion of the people and the culture.

fear and suspicion largely due to the rampant high profile criminality which huge numbers of Roma are forced or born into. It would in fact be counterintuitive for people not to be suspicious of Roma peoples.

briany

suicide_circus wrote: »

fear and suspicion largely due to the rampant high profile criminality which huge numbers of Roma are forced or born into. It would in fact be counterintuitive for people not to be suspicious of Roma peoples.

And that suspicion has led to the situation that nobody really wants to take them. Hence the original question : Deport them to where, exactly?

corner of hells

suicide_circus wrote: »

fear and suspicion largely due to the rampant high profile criminality which huge numbers of Roma are forced or born into. It would in fact be counterintuitive for people not to be suspicious of Roma peoples.

Arguably the most marginalised group with no less than three thousand living here often ineligible for any support from the state other the HSE acknowledgement of the conditions they live in yet the impact they create in peoples minds is incredible.

ComfortKid

briany wrote:

And that suspicion has led to the situation that nobody really wants to take them. Hence the original question : Deport them to where, exactly?

Don't let them in to the Country in the first place is the only solution.

I'm not racist before the PC brigade arrive.

briany

ComfortKid wrote: »

Don't let them in to the Country in the first place is the only solution.

I'm not racist before the PC brigade arrive.

If they're trafficked in then it's a bit like saying "don't let drugs in". Sounds nice and clean in theory, but in practice it's a bit trickier.

Mesrine65

briany wrote: »

If they're trafficked in then it's a bit like saying "don't let drugs in". Sounds nice and clean in theory, but in practice it's a bit trickier.

Who's going to traffic in Roma's?

briany

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Who's going to traffic in Roma's?

I would imagine the same people who are supposed to be taking their begging proceeds, as this forum tells it.

ComfortKid

briany wrote:

If they're trafficked in then it's a bit like saying "don't let drugs in". Sounds nice and clean in theory, but in practice it's a bit trickier.

Agreed. But it's better to try that than to try deport them when nobody wants em.

Imagine being a race that no one will take you, not even your own country. Somehow I don't think they're worried about there rep though.

suicide_circus

briany wrote: »

And that suspicion has led to the situation that nobody really wants to take them. Hence the original question : Deport them to where, exactly?

I don't advocate deportation. I advocate the Roma "community" getting its house in order.

Catmologen

From reading this thread there seems to be an assumption that all beggars are poor and/or homeless. There are a lot of opportunists out there too, making a lot of money by preying on this assumption. Give to charity not beggars.

corner of hells

briany wrote: »

I would imagine the same people who are supposed to be taking their begging proceeds, as this forum tells it.

Couldn't be very lucrative, could it ? Apparently everyone hates Roma and does give them so much as a second glance so they hardly could be making a cent.

Spanish Eyes

Sometimes I think that those who absolutely need to beg would never do so, due to embarrassment, loss of dignity or whatever.

You know, those who are in dire straits due to the crash, no jobs, big mortgage, maybe ill health, depression, potential eviction, kids who cost such a lot, and so on. Living on the edge of disaster. I doubt many of that cohort will ever beg on the streets.

I know some will say I am comparing apples and pears, but some people are going through a terrible time, but they are the silent ones who just survive as best they can.

briany

Catmologen wrote: »

From reading this thread there seems to be an assumption that all beggars are poor and/or homeless. There are a lot of opportunists out there too, making a lot of money by preying on this assumption. Give to charity not beggars.

There is, or was, an older man who sits on the steps of the church as you walk down Westland Row in Dublin City, just before you come to Pearse Street Station. Supposedly he goes home to a house every night.

A relation of mine begs in Balbriggan town. He has a house and can live, too, but he's also not right in the head and has a weird compulsion to stick the hand out for drinking money.

ComfortKid

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Sometimes I think that those who absolutely need to beg would never do so, due to embarrassment, loss of dignity or whatever.

Spanish Eyes wrote:

You know, those who are in dire straits due to the crash, no jobs, big mortgage, maybe ill health, depression, potential eviction, kids who cost such a lot, and so on. Living on the edge of disaster. I doubt many of that cohort will ever beg on the streets.

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Sometimes I think that those who absolutely need to beg would never do so, due to embarrassment, loss of dignity or whatever.

Spanish Eyes wrote:

You know, those who are in dire straits due to the crash, no jobs, big mortgage, maybe ill health, depression, potential eviction, kids who cost such a lot, and so on. Living on the edge of disaster. I doubt many of that cohort will ever beg on the streets.

Spanish Eyes wrote:

I know some will say I am comparing apples and pears, but some people are going through a terrible time, but they are the silent ones who just survive as best they can.

Spot on there I think. A decent person would be too decent to ask complete strangers for money

briany

corner of hells wrote: »

Couldn't be very lucrative, could it ? Apparently everyone hates Roma and does give them so much as a second glance so they hardly could be making a cent.

We'll probably not see the figures published any time soon but anecdotes like this (from page 1) would suggest that it is, or has been, profitable.

zcorpian88 wrote: »

Not a big fan of the Romanian ones, I hear all sorts about them and a lot have more money than you and I.

Did witness something mad a few years ago, was sitting outside a pub having a coffee and there was a Romanian beggar on the pedestrianized street in town, a guy I guessed by the look of him was the same nationality gets out of a Mercedes jeep, big enough petrol guzzling yoke and was new enough looking and wearing what looked to be snake skin boots that looked quite flashy. Anyway he approaches the beggar, takes the cup of change off her and walks back to his jeep gets in and drives off quickly.

Wonder how much change you need to buy a Merc jeep??

Mesrine65

corner of hells

briany wrote: »

We'll probably not see the figures published any time soon but anecdotes like this (from page 1) would suggest that it is, or has been, profitable.

Internet anecdotal evidence , the finest evidence of them all.

Allyall

wakka12 wrote: »

'Committed suicide'

I never said otherwise, I was just (mischievously) replying to your post.

wakka12 wrote: »

No but considering literally nobody here has died of starvation then the hunger problems couldn't be that bad

dublinman1990

The thing is with the Roma gangs and parents though is that I don't like the manner in which they are influencing their menacing power on the Roma women; particularly this includes their own children.

A young child going through that power grab from those gang leaders could be strongly influenced to becoming involved in hurting their families and becoming a criminal. The sad reality for them is that they seem to have no way out from preventing that pain and torture being inflicted on them in the future because of a severe lack of moral guidance & education from those significantly older then them.

The manner in which they are treated as students in school by their peers and teachers must be very painful for them because of the gangs & more notably their parent's reputation in the outside world. I wouldn't want to be one of those kids even if I had dreamed of it.

The form of emotional abuse coming from a roma gang is nearly equal to that of one person being emotionally abused by an Irish traveller living in a halting site. This form of abuse should never continue in the outside world but we are seemingly too PC to do anything about it to even stop it getting worse.

SHOVELLER

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Poverty does not mean the person is starving on the streets.

Poverty is considered to be when you have to choose between food, heat and electricity.

I did that for a few months (chose food and electricity!), and I'm working.

I earn sweet fcuk all, but I'm upskilling. I would have more disposable income on the dole, but I choose to work. I'm under the poverty line, but lucky in that I'm very damn good at budgeting.

Don't throw out crap about there being no poverty in Ireland unless you understand what poverty actually means.

It's not crap. By your logic I have to live in a bin before posting. Well done.

TireeTerror wrote: »

See when I said "dont argue with me about it"? I meant it. You do not have a full understanding at all and really must live in some odd isolated corner of the country or are blind.

If someone was refused on the basis of not being habitually resident then they would not be provided with Supplementary Benefit to "tide them over".

They would be told.....why dont you try Saint Vincent De Paul? That is the actual advice provided by these so called community welfare officers. That means the safety net is not there for them at all.

There are many more unemployed job seekers than there are available vacancies.

Go and try and get a job when you have no fixed abode and have no clean clothes and you have been living on the streets. I should know better than to waste my time trying to convince you because I have met many like you before and its wasted energy, I just hope by posting in here others will not be swayed into agreeing with you by thinking there is even the slightest of truth in your absolutely insane postings.

Nonsense on so many levels. How many people have no fixed abode and have no clean clothes ffs? What percentage?

Insane is pushing an agenda that there is rampant poverty when NOBODY is dying for lack of food. There is always a safety net. Wake up. Yeah you should know better talking drivel.

Tony EH wrote: »

You haven't the first clue.

Says you. For your info pal I have been on both sides of the social welfare counter so I have a lot more clue than you ever will. The reality is there are thousands who have no interest in working and talk of poverty is hogwash.

One More Toy

TireeTerror wrote: »

So your definition of poverty is that they have to literally die of starvation.

I really hope it is just your post that is utterly stupid.

Very good points but Ryu is my avatar ffs

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

fear and suspicion largely due to the rampant high profile criminality which huge numbers of Roma are forced or born into. It would in fact be counterintuitive for people not to be suspicious of Roma peoples.

And it would also be counterintuitive not to appreciate that much suspicion of the Roma is based simply on racism.

ComfortKid wrote: »

Imagine being a race that no one will take you, not even your own country. Somehow I don't think they're worried about there rep though.

Imagine being part of a race whose Gardai removed children from Roma families on little more than the suspicion that they steal children. Perhaps we should worry about our rep. They were extremely ugly incidents.

pablo128

Deleted User wrote: »

And it would also be counterintuitive not to appreciate that much suspicion of the Roma is based simply on racism.



Imagine being part of a race whose Gardai removed children from Roma families on little more than the suspicion that they steal children. Perhaps we should worry about our rep. They were extremely ugly incidents.

The gardai would have gotten much more criticism if the kid turned out to be kidnapped and they had done nothing. The kid was given back to them the next day FFS.

When was the last time you saw a Roma person working?

corner of hells

pablo128 wrote: »

The gardai would have gotten much more criticism if the kid turned out to be kidnapped and they had done nothing. The kid was given back to them the next day FFS.

When was the last time you saw a Roma person working?

Couple working in commercial cleaning , a few in specialised social care a.Its difficult for them to access work because a lot are illiterate a.My cousin is a landlord to a family with all the children attending school .

pablo128

pablo128 wrote: »

The gardai would have gotten much more criticism if the kid turned out to be kidnapped and they had done nothing. The kid was given back to them the next day FFS.

When was the last time you saw a Roma person working?

Ah.

Sure maybe Irish children should be removed from Irish families in other countries. After all we have a reputation for abuse on a massive scale over the decades and sure if it turned out that they were being abused and nothing was done well then the racist profiling would turn out grand. And as we know, the police in the UK were found to have kept the records of Irish people taken in the wake of the Soham murder hunt for longer than other people on that basis.

When was the last time I saw a Roma person employed by an Irish person? Yes, you do support the very point I made. And I am obliged for you pointing that out.

MarkY91

ComfortKid wrote: »

Agreed. But it's better to try that than to try deport them when nobody wants em.

Imagine being a race that no one will take you, not even your own country. Somehow I don't think they're worried about there rep though.

Then it's up to them to change their ways and integrate themselves into society.

Tony EH

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Says you. For your info pal I have been on both sides of the social welfare counter so I have a lot more clue than you ever will. The reality is there are thousands who have no interest in working and talk of poverty is hogwash.

I don't care where you claim to have been. Your ignorance of the matter is explicit in your words.

Sam Kade

Caiden Beautiful Orangutan wrote: »

What's your attitude towards beggars/homeless people on the streets? Has there ever been an instance where you've been upset by seeing them on the streets?

I went on a school trip to London last September, we were walking down the street to get to the tube late at night if I recall and on the other side of the street there was a man and a woman by the roller door of a shop and were both on their knees, hugging each other for warmth while one blanket was wrapped around them. It upset really upset me at the time but I put it out of mind as I didn't want it to affect my trip. It wasn't until I got home a few days later when I dwelled on it and realised how sad it was and that these two, who I assumed were a couple, were sticking with each other through thick and thin.

Not one bit upset because of them.

SHOVELLER

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't care where you claim to have been. Your ignorance of the matter is explicit in your words.

It's no claim. You should go to countries with genuine chronic poverty, Throw out all the names you want but you and your ilk are guilty of poverty of thought.

dubscottie

Deleted User wrote: »

And as we know, the police in the UK were found to have kept the records of Irish people taken in the wake of the Soham murder hunt for longer than other people on that basis.

Source? Did a Google and nothing..