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Irish anti-Islamic group protests mosque in Kerry

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    #302
    baaba maal
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭baaba maal


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Groups like this are socially right-wing, not economically so - although they would be economically conservative in the Irish context (protectionism, anti free trade - all that pre-60's Fianna Fail fun and games). Left and right are not simplistic binary definitions, unless you're still young enough not to know any better.

    I was commenting to Richard Ceann in the context of the free movement of labour. Yes- I am aware of the distinction between economic and social aspects. Of course the group in the OP are socially rightwing and economically left (sure wasn't Hitler a socialist!)*. Much like my previous point about the complexity of ethnicity and culture I am very mindful of the use of shorthand in classifying these things.

    *I'm calling Godwin on myself!:)


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    #303
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Alexis Sanchez wrote: »
    Apologist bullshít, the majority of Islamic terrorist attacks are inter-Islamic, where Muslims from different sects blow the crap out of each other over whose brand of Islam is better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

    Blaming everything on America and the UK is just lazy scapegoating or pure nativity. Islam was founded on war and terror, the prophet Muhammad was a warlord who conquered Arabia and forced everyone in the region to convert to Islam, much like the way ISIS are trying to do today.

    P.S.: The Arab Spring would have caused a civil war in Iraq anyway.
    its not Apologist bullshít. its fact.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #304
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    wakka12 wrote: »
    So if indigenous people of europe can't make enough babies to sustain the population , and hundreds of thousands of immigrants with much higher brith rates enter europe annually, what exactly do you think will happen?

    I certainly don't believe the nonsense you've been peddling anyway. Why would anyone?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #305
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    baaba maal wrote: »
    Of course the group in the OP are socially rightwing and economically left (sure wasn't Hitler a socialist!)*. Much like my previous point about the complexity of ethnicity and culture I am very mindful of the use of shorthand in classifying these things.
    Irish political ideology in the republic was up until the late nineties far less sophisticated TBH. What we had was not left and right, but more Guelphs and Ghibellines - an ideological battle between a more inward looking nationalist Catholic ethos looking to the Pope and a more cosmopolitan, urban, European and secular one. Left and right didn't really exist, as neither really fitted into either category at least not in the sense that the rest of the World would recognize them. If you think of it in terms of medieval Guelphs and Ghibellines it actually made more sense I found at the time.

    Ireland's moved on to a great extent (not completely), so these Moppets are reality little more than remnants of a bygone age.


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    #306
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    conorhal wrote:
    If you've been here for 18yrs and not bothered to apply then you are either not interested in becoming a citizen, lazy or you shouldn't be here.

    Or broke. Have you any idea how expensive a process that is?


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    #307
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I certainly don't believe the nonsense you've been peddling anyway. Why would anyone?

    Well call it nonsense all you like but its the truth.


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    #308
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well call it nonsense all you like but its the truth.
    no, no it isn't

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #309
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well call it nonsense all you like but its the truth.

    You realise immigrant birth rates gradually drop when they enter first world countries? Costs, reasons for large families diminish, integration.....


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    #310
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Nodin wrote: »
    You realise immigrant birth rates gradually drop when they enter first world countries? Costs, reasons for large families diminish, integration.....

    And with a little help from the most expensive creche fees in the world. Robbin' bastids. We sure know how to do rip off here.


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    #311
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    MadsL wrote: »
    Or broke. Have you any idea how expensive a process that is?

    Can it cost more than a couple of grand?

    Do we want to be granting residency to those that who can't support themselves? They can toddle on to be frank, we don't need to naturalize welfare dependents.


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    #312
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    MadsL wrote: »
    Or broke. Have you any idea how expensive a process that is?

    $680 last time I checked.


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    #313
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    $680 last time I checked.

    If you can't afford that you really need to be shown the door. A friend of mine returned from Austraila two years ago because he couldn't afford to pay for schooling for his three kids in Sidney where they expect migrants to pay their own way. There has to be some basic critera for granting residency and an ability to support youself and not constitute a net loss to the economy should be one.


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    #314
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Nodin wrote: »
    You realise immigrant birth rates gradually drop when they enter first world countries? Costs, reasons for large families diminish, integration.....

    LOL, oh man, you're unreal. Fair play to ya.


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    #315
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well call it nonsense all you like but its the truth.

    Prove it

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #316
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    end of the road wrote: »
    its not Apologist bullshít. its fact.
    Well, no it's not. To suggest that Islamic extremism is caused by consequences of Western meddling is as simplistic as suggesting that it's solely down to religion. Or to suggest that Islamic extremism in the West is a product of the same influences as in the Middle East would be equally false. The whole thing is a clusterfück, for which the West bares some responsibility, but certainly not all or even the majority.

    After all, last time I checked, the Saudis have probably meddled more in the West than vice versa.

    Post imperial Arab identity was largely harnessed by the Baathist movement in the latter half of the twentieth century. It was a secular, socialist and nationalist ideology that was, if anything, hostile to religion - even Gadaffi, while not a Baathist, was cut from the same mold. As we saw with the Arab Spring, although the cracks were there long before, this form of nationalism had become morally bankrupt in the eyes of the people themselves.

    This had already been happening since he 1980's, as religion - another common identifier - began to gain supporters. Not the first time religion was used as a rallying point in the Islamic World; the Ottomans essentially did the same thing when they lost Greece.

    But with religion you do get all crap that comes with it, and sectarianism is a big issue in the Islamic World. Ask an average Sunni about a Shiite and you'll often get a response that you would expect to hear in Europe at the height of the Inquisition.

    So, while the West is hardly blameless (the whole Israel-Palestine question is an ongoing thorn in the whole relationship), the middle east has managed to become a clusterfück without our help. We may have made things worse, but it would have likely all ended up like this anyway.


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    #317
    RichardCeann
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 647 ✭✭✭RichardCeann


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Prove it

    First gen immigrants from the developing world have a lot of kids. Second gen too but they eventually fall into European line by third gen.


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    #318
    RichardCeann
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 647 ✭✭✭RichardCeann


    MadsL wrote: »
    The 27th Amendmentshould be torn up. Scaremongering caused it to pass in the first place.

    Believe it or not I actually voted against the amendment. You're born here, you grow up here, you're damn straight that you deserve citizenship. Not this €950 so you can attend a condescending party craic. "Our history is now yours" - thanks Frances.

    A lot of kids born here will grow up very disenfranchised. But there we go.


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    #319
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    RichardCeann wrote: »
    First gen immigrants from the developing world have a lot of kids. Second gen too but they eventually fall into European line by third gen.

    That doesnt prove anything

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #320
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    RichardCeann wrote: »
    First gen immigrants from the developing world have a lot of kids. Second gen too but they eventually fall into European line by third gen.

    That doesnt prove anything

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #321
    RichardCeann
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 647 ✭✭✭RichardCeann


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    That doesnt prove anything

    One quarter of all kids born here are to non Irish mams. This is facts.


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    #322
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    RichardCeann wrote: »
    One quarter of all kids born here are to non Irish mams. This is facts.

    and ?


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    #323
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    baaba maal wrote: »
    And Irish people went abroad and took up jobs in those countries. People on the right of the political spectrum generally like the concept of free movement of capital, goods and labour (and I don't know your politics, but I am making an assumption that you are- apologies if I am wrong).

    Most pro-immigration beliefs are in fact right wing in the capitalist sense. So are most "socially liberal" ideologies. Most of the identity politics the U.S. promotes worldwide is absent of any discussion of class, national or imperial privilege. Which is because of its origin in the empire of course.


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    #324
    RichardCeann
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 647 ✭✭✭RichardCeann


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    and ?

    You again. Lucky me.


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    #325
    Muckracker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭Muckracker


    I don't get why gays and feminists love Islam so much. You guys are going to be the first to be beheaded when they take over!


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    #326
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Muckracker wrote: »
    I don't get why gays and feminists love Islam so much. You guys are going to be the first to be beheaded when they take over!

    It's SJW nonsence in it's purest form, They cannot see the disconnect. They seem to think Moving to the west Is a cure for ones murderous blood lust towards infidels. Moderate Muslims are fine, I'm talking ISIS for example.


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    #327
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    LOL, oh man, you're unreal. Fair play to ya.

    So are you disputing the fact, agreeing, or this just a drive-by as usual?


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    #328
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    It's SJW nonsence in it's purest form, They cannot see the disconnect. They seem to think Moving to the west Is a cure for ones murderous blood lust towards infidels. Moderate Muslims are fine, I'm talking ISIS for example.


    Without re-reading the thread, I'll rely on memory and say that nobody suggested we invite IS in for the "lolz" or anything else.


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    #329
    RichardCeann
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 647 ✭✭✭RichardCeann


    We ard giving these guys too much oxygen. If there's a demand for a mosque in Tralee, then ok. They will probably start popping out what us goalkeepers call terrorists. Mini Goochs.


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    #330
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Nodin wrote: »
    Without re-reading the thread, I'll rely on memory and say that nobody suggested we invite IS in for the "lolz" or anything else.

    One must have forgotten the people going to bat for the MB.


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    #331
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RichardCeann wrote: »
    We ard giving these guys too much oxygen. If there's a demand for a mosque in Tralee, then ok. They will probably start popping out what us goalkeepers call terrorists. Mini Goochs.

    .......that one passed so far over my head I think its actually about to enter orbit....


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