Irish anti-Islamic group protests mosque in Kerry

darkpagandeath

RichardCeann wrote: »

It is now racist to not want to ever become a mere minority in your own country? This is pure insanity. Outside of the western world, you would be laughed at if you suggested that the natives of a country should welcome immigration so far as to become minorities in their own land.

Are you a Minority ? Immigration has been happening throughout history.

wakka12

darkpagandeath wrote: »

True but here Migrant kids seem to assimilate very well. There are a few exceptions obviously.

I agree actually. There doesn't seem to be any ethnic enclave-y things here yet at least. Idk maybe Irelands just doing multiculturalism better than the UK and Sweden did. But anyway..Im happy the way Ireland is now. I don't want it to become like the UK and sweden with no go areas ruled by sharia law

dr.fuzzenstein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ukFAvYP3UU

SpaceSasqwatch

RichardCeann wrote: »

It is now racist to not want to ever become a mere minority in your own country? This is pure insanity. Outside of the western world, you would be laughed at if you suggested that the natives of a country should welcome immigration so far as to become minorities in their own land.

It is when you use the argruments spouted by those fuktards linked to in the OP.

RichardCeann

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Are you a Minority ? Immigration has been happening throughout history.

Not on the scale that's coming into European nations at present. It's unprecedented.

darkpagandeath

wakka12 wrote: »

I agree actually. There doesn't seem to be any ethnic enclave-y things here yet at least. Idk maybe Irelands just doing multiculturalism better than the UK and Sweden did. But anyway..Im happy the way Ireland is now. I don't want it to become like the UK and sweden with no go areas ruled by sharia law

I know exactly what you mean, And I can't explain away the problems in other EU countries and why they are having issues. It's odd.

darkpagandeath

RichardCeann wrote: »

Not on the scale that's coming into European nations at present. It's unprecedented.

I would only worry about them ISIS lads tbh.

eviltwin

RichardCeann wrote: »

Can you show me a country in history where the natives became a minority and it worked out well for them? Just one will do.

Only a self hating sadist would cheer on and welcome becoming a minority/plurality in their own native homeland. What is the point of this country, if not a homeland for the Irish people?

I can't give you any examples. I'm talking about my views on where I live, an area that was 90% white Irish when I moved in is now about 50% Irish, it's one of the most multicultural parts of Ireland, my son's school is the most culturally diverse in the country ( 90% non irish background although most of those were born here)

You know what? This area has only improved since outsiders started moving in. There is a better community spirit, more community activities and any problems here are almost exclusively caused by white Irish people. So, no, I'm not afraid or concerned. The people here are normal families just trying to get by like everyone else. The area I grew up in is still almost all white and I wouldn't want to go back to that.

RichardCeann

You must live in Fingal. Have a look at the housing list and rate of welfare reliance of the new arrivals in that area and then tell me again that everything is grand. Over half on the housing list are non Irish. Over a quarter, non European. The figures are all available online and in the CSO offices.

It's a United Nations welfare centre. You might get the warm and fuzzies but without massive continued government expenditure these multicultural places would fall apart. Then the fun and games would really start. Is this model feasible for the rest of the nation? It's a socioeconomic experiment and a very expensive one at that.

darkpagandeath

RichardCeann wrote: »

You must live in Fingal. Have a look at the housing list and rate of welfare reliance of the new arrivals in that area and then tell me again that everything is grand. Over half on the housing list are non Irish. Over a quarter, non European. The figures are all available online and in the CSO offices.

It's a United Nations welfare centre. You might get the warm and fuzzies but without massive continued government expenditure these multicultural places would fall apart. Then the fun and games would really start. Is this model feasible for the rest of the nation? It's a socioeconomic experiment and a very expensive one at that.

I can't remember if the Immigrants are taking our jobs or they are all on the dole... :pac:

eviltwin

RichardCeann wrote: »

You must live in Fingal. Have a look at the housing list and rate of welfare reliance of the new arrivals in that area and then tell me again that everything is grand. Over half on the housing list are non Irish. Over a quarter, non European.

It's a United Nations welfare centre. You might get the warm and fuzzies but without massive continued government expenditure the place would fall apart. Then the fun and games would really start. Is this model feasible for the rest of the nation?

I know there is a lot of social housing here. There always was. Same with welfare. That didn't become a problem when immigrants moved in. All the non irish on my street work. Most of the local businesses in my area were established by non irish, most of the staff are non irish. They are making a contribution and have brought some much needed life and enterprise into an area that was suffering. They work, they are good neighbours, they get involved in the community, they are nice people...exactly what you want in your neighbourhood.

RichardCeann

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I can't remember if the Immigrants are taking our jobs or they are all on the dole... :pac:

All immigrant groups outside of the EU 15 have a higher rate of welfare reliance than Irish citizens. At the same time, certain professions have seen their conditions and salaries affected by mass immigration due to the number of newcomers entering the market. Labourers, public transports drivers, hotel staff ect.


You realise that when such large numbers enter the country they can put pressure on both social services and more menial workers wages and conditions, yes?

This could all be avoided by having a points based immigration system and a more restrictive welfare state.

ScumLord

wakka12 wrote: »

So if indigenous people of europe can't make enough babies to sustain the population , and hundreds of thousands of immigrants with much higher brith rates enter europe annually, what exactly do you think will happen?

Making enough babies has never been a problem for the Irish. The rest of the western world does see a decline in birth rates as the standard of living goes up. That's not so much an immigration problem though because you get enclaves of under privileged white people too.

RichardCeann wrote: »

Can you show me a country in history where the natives became a minority and it worked out well for them? Just one will do.

It worked out pretty well for the Romans, they imported skills from around the known world at the time and most certainly would have been a minority in their roman empire. They had an open door policy in the beginning which is where they got all the skills they needed to become one of the most advanced and powerful people in the world and they were just a city in the beginning.

In reality natives very rarely become minorities in their own country outside of some genocidal war.

wakka12 wrote: »

The thing is a majority can't assimilate and become like the minority present. When european countries do become majority migrant and their descendants, it'll change forever. You only need to look at Sweden and the UK to see the majority of migrants stay in ethnic enclaves around people from their home countries or similar cultures. If you move to a new country why would you assimilate? I totally get where they coming from.

I go to England a good bit and while in the centre of big cities like London or Birmingham white skin can be as much of a minority as any other coloured skin, the people I see are all very British looking. They're wearing the same style clothes, listening to the same music, they're Londoners. The other thing I notice about a city of London with all it's diversity, is how prosperous and vibrant it is, even when the rest of the country is suffering. It's London's connections to the rest of the world that makes it such a vibrant city.

I've also been to plenty of small towns throughout the UK where nearly everyone is white. Traditional English towns, full of traditional English people are pretty much everywhere outside of the major cities.

If I had to move to Germany for work because Ireland was hypothetically poor and there was a large irish immigrant population there then I would stay amongst irish people . I wouldn't go through the trouble of learning german or 'becoming german' because well I like being Irish and I like speaking English. I'm only here for economic reasons.

And that's how it is for the vast vast majority of immigrants.

That's a fantasy, immigrants to a country might tend to pool initially, I wouldn't blame anyone for that, they want to be around people they know but the second generation mix into the population, they're kids can be different colours, religions and have different passports.

I think we need these people in, Ireland has been exporting genes for centuries, we need some new blood. I think immigration needs to be controlled, we need to get immigrants working for us, but I think they're a great resource to have available to us and will have long lasting benefits to the local population.

Herb Powell

RichardCeann wrote: »

All immigrant groups outside of the EU 15 have a higher rate of welfare reliance than Irish citizens. At the same time, certain professions have seen their conditions and salaries affected by mass immigration due to the number of newcomers entering the market. Labourers, public transports drivers, hotel staff ect.


You realise that when such large numbers enter the country they can put pressure on both social services and more menial workers wages and conditions, yes?

This could all be avoided by having a points based immigration system and a more restrictive welfare state.

On the other side of the coin, I know a good few highly educated immigrants, who can't take up the job they've trained for because of beureaucratic nonsense, and so end up on the minimum wage positions. This does no one any good. Qualified doctors, for example? Bring em on. Offer short courses to 'update ' their qualifications if needs be, but simply not allowing them to do so at the current extent is a big big mistake imo.

RichardCeann

eviltwin wrote: »

I know there is a lot of social housing here. There always was. Same with welfare. That didn't become a problem when immigrants moved in.

The demand for social housing in Fingal has risen by 100s of percentage points. The majority of those looking for social housing in the area are non Irish. Some of the newcomers have an employment rate of less than 40%. Of course they are one of the driving causes of the lack of social housing in the area.

Are you in social housing and in receipt of welfare yourself? If you're a newcomer, like you say, then I'm guessing that you are. It's easy to be supportive of all this when you're not paying towards it or a local. The older residents of the area that has now been changed beyond recognition may not be so supportive.

dr.fuzzenstein

RichardCeann wrote: »

You must live in Fingal. Have a look at the housing list and rate of welfare reliance of the new arrivals in that area and then tell me again that everything is grand. Over half on the housing list are non Irish. Over a quarter, non European. The figures are all available online and in the CSO offices.

It's a United Nations welfare centre. You might get the warm and fuzzies but without massive continued government expenditure these multicultural places would fall apart. Then the fun and games would really start. Is this model feasible for the rest of the nation? It's a socioeconomic experiment and a very expensive one at that.

Because all fully Irish housing estates are peaceful, do not consist of 50% boarded up houses, burnt out cars and do not throw stones at police, ambulance and fire brigade.

johnc77

RichardCeann wrote: »

The demand for social housing in Fingal has risen by 100s of percentage points. The majority of those looking for social housing in the area are non Irish. Some of the newcomers have an employment rate of less than 40%. Of course they are one of the driving causes of the lack of social housing in the area.

Are you in social housing and in receipt of welfare yourself? If you're a newcomer, like you say, then I'm guessing that you are. It's easy to be supportive of all this when you're not paying towards it or a local. The older residents of the area that has now been changed beyond recognition may not be so supportive.

Racist!

RichardCeann

Herb Powell wrote: »

On the other side of the coin, I know a good few highly educated immigrants, who can't take up the job they've trained for because of beureaucratic nonsense, and so end up on the minimum wage positions. This does no one any good. Qualified doctors, for example? Bring em on. Offer short courses to 'update ' their qualifications if needs be, but simply not allowing them to do so at the current extent is a big big mistake imo.

I've no quarrel with any skilled immigrant coming here, once the numbers are sustainable, but certain professions are powerful enough to keep the shop door closed. At the same time these professionals would sneer at the more inarticulate members of society speaking out at how large scale immigration affects them. It's very unfair and hypocritical.

The Irish American Sean O'Sullivan from Dragons Den wants to issue 25,000 IT related visas to non EU citizens per year. Currently it's at less than 2,000 issued. I wonder how the denizens of boards.ie would react to that move? Judging by the demographics, not too well I would imagine.

dr.fuzzenstein

RichardCeann wrote: »

I've no quarrel with any skilled immigrant coming here, once the numbers are sustainable, but certain professions are powerful enough to keep the shop door closed. At the same time these professionals would sneer at the more inarticulate members of society speaking out at how large scale immigration affects them. It's very unfair and hypocritical.

The Irish American Sean O'Sullivan from Dragons Den wants to issue 25,000 IT related visas to non EU citizens per year. Currently it's at less than 2,000 issued. I wonder how the denizens of boards.ie would react to that move? Judging by the demographics, not too well I would imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWNho8g0lsU

Nodin

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Because all fully Irish housing estates are peaceful, do not consist of 50% boarded up houses, burnt out cars and do not throw stones at police, ambulance and fire brigade.

Good jaysus no. No Dublin suburb ever went without a Bus service after dark during winter because of attacks and the like, at all, at all.

Niemoj

Their site is registered in America and everything is spelt in the 'Murican way on their site.

So much for being Irish.

eviltwin

RichardCeann wrote: »

The demand for social housing in Fingal has risen by 100s of percentage points. The majority of those looking for social housing in the area are non Irish. Some of the newcomers have an employment rate of less than 40%. Of course they are one of the driving causes of the lack of social housing in the area.

Are you in social housing and in receipt of welfare yourself? If you're a newcomer, like you say, then I'm guessing that you are. It's easy to be supportive of all this when you're not paying towards it or a local. The older residents of the area that has now been changed beyond recognition may not be so supportive.

God you're quite presumptuous aren't you :pac: I'm a mortgage holder and not on welfare. I moved here 15 yrs ago when it was a cheap area of Dublin and best placed for my daughter's school. I'm not a local, I grew up 15 miles away but some of the friends I've made here are here since birth and would agree with me. I'm not saying it's perfect, there are problems, there are people who don't want to integrate, there are individuals I'd love to see move out but on the whole, compared to how it was in our first years here it's a million times better. My kids are happy, my husband and I are happy, we have a nice quality of live with nice neighbours who are making a positive contribution to life here. You can't ask for more than that really.

wakka12

eviltwin wrote: »

I can't give you any examples. I'm talking about my views on where I live, an area that was 90% white Irish when I moved in is now about 50% Irish, it's one of the most multicultural parts of Ireland, my son's school is the most culturally diverse in the country ( 90% non irish background although most of those were born here)

You know what? This area has only improved since outsiders started moving in. There is a better community spirit, more community activities and any problems here are almost exclusively caused by white Irish people. So, no, I'm not afraid or concerned. The people here are normal families just trying to get by like everyone else. The area I grew up in is still almost all white and I wouldn't want to go back to that.

What area is that? If you don't mind me asking It sounds quite nice to raise a family in.

eviltwin

wakka12 wrote: »

What area is that? If you don't mind me asking It sounds quite nice to raise a family in.

Blanchardstown.

wakka12

eviltwin wrote: »

Blanchardstown.

Blanch is 90% non irish?? I never knew that

eviltwin

wakka12 wrote: »

Blanch is 90% non irish?? I never knew that

The part I live in would be.

RichardCeann

Blanch a good place to bring up kids.

Are you for ****ing real? Half the kids that leave primary are borderline illiterate. The teachers spend half their days doing ESL. There's a reason why Gaeltachts across Dublin are thriving and inundated with Irish parents who have a newly found passon for the Irish language!

eviltwin

RichardCeann wrote: »

Blanch a good place to bring up kids.

Are you for ****ing real? Half the kids that leave primary are borderline illiterate. The teachers spend half their days doing ESL. There's a reason why Gaeltachts across Dublin are thriving and inundated with Irish parents who have a newly found passon for the Irish language!

I'm very happy with my kids school thank you very much. I've one on course for university this September so they must be doing something right.

baaba maal

RichardCeann wrote: »

Can you show me a country in history where the natives became a minority and it worked out well for them? Just one will do.

Only a self hating sadist would cheer on and welcome becoming a minority/plurality in their own native homeland. What is the point of this country, if not a homeland for the Irish people?

So, going by 'our' creation myths (contained in the Book of Invasions etc.), do you class yourself as:
Cessarian Irish
Parthalonian Irish,
Nemedian Irish
Firbolgian Irish
Milesian Irish?

Milesian would be those Johnny-come-lately "celts" btw.

Even our historically dubious creation myth point to successive waves of 'invasion' to this island. Subsequent population movements of Vikings, Normans (Cambro-French), Scots gallowglass mercenaries, Huguenots, Vietnamese boat people etc. are all well-documented. The current immigration issue is only a minor example of the continuum of human movement around the globe. Unless you happen to think we are all doomed and we are in some special period of history where everything is more significant than other times, you argument lacks perspective.
Given the above- how much of you is actually "Irish"?
Hares have been resident on this island for at least 20,000 years (during and after the last ice age). Humans have been around here for about half of that. Interestingly, in that time, the Irish hare has evolved as a separate species (mainly due to the fact that is has dropped the ability to turn white in winter as the relatively low snowfall levels would have been a problem for white hares). The only example given of discerning features of the Irish human 'race' on this thread is eh,...red hair and freckles. My understanding is that a higher percentage of Danish people have red hair (heard on de radio). My slightly frivolous post is trying to point out that "Irish" may be a cultural and political concept, but genetically it is all over the place and whatever way immigration works out over the next 10,00 years it will only mean that the gene pool is being topped up again. No biggie if you can stand back a bit from the latest twitterstorm (or whatever we call controversy these days).
On the original issue of the right to protest about the proposed mosque, I fully support anyone's right to engage with the planning system. I also happen to think that all places of worship are futile exercises in wish fulfilment but if it brings people together...........

wakka12

baaba maal wrote: »

So, going by 'our' creation myths (contained in the Book of Invasions etc.), do you class yourself as:
Cessarian Irish
Parthalonian Irish,
Nemedian Irish
Firbolgian Irish
Milesian Irish?

Milesian would be those Johnny-come-lately "celts" btw.

Even our historically dubious creation myth point to successive waves of 'invasion' to this island. Subsequent population movements of Vikings, Normans (Cambro-French), Scots gallowglass mercenaries, Huguenots, Vietnamese boat people etc. are all well-documented. The current immigration issue is only a minor example of the continuum of human movement around the globe. Unless you happen to think we are all doomed and we are in some special period of history where everything is more significant than other times, you argument lacks perspective.
Given the above- how much of you is actually "Irish"?
Hares have been resident on this island for at least 20,000 years (during and after the last ice age). Humans have been around here for about half of that. Interestingly, in that time, the Irish hare has evolved as a separate species (mainly due to the fact that is has dropped the ability to turn white in winter as the relatively low snowfall levels would have been a problem for white hares). The only example given of discerning features of the Irish human 'race' on this thread is eh,...red hair and freckles. My understanding is that a higher percentage of Danish people have red hair (heard on de radio). My slightly frivolous post is trying to point out that "Irish" may be a cultural and political concept, but genetically it is all over the place and whatever way immigration works out over the next 10,00 years it will only mean that the gene pool is being topped up again. No biggie if you can stand back a bit from the latest twitterstorm (or whatever we call controversy these days).
On the original issue of the right to protest about the proposed mosque, I fully support anyone's right to engage with the planning system. I also happen to think that all places of worship are futile exercises in wish fulfilment but if it brings people together...........

So you don't believe in a thing called ethnic groups then? The modern day people we consider the irish ethnic group are a mixture of those people yes. Its not 'pure' but so what, does that mean it doesn't deserve to be preserved like native americans or aborigines in australia?