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A boat full of carbs

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    #662
    upthe19th
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭upthe19th


    5 weeks in and going good so far.

    A good few benefits observed so far. No muscle cramps anymore during/after races, sleeping better, more relaxed, weight drop and stable weight, better body condition over all, better skin condition and noticeable fat loss.

    I can only comment on my own observations and reactions to the diet. Overall so far its been great. I like it and it suits me. Maybe its not for everyone, but it really works for me and that's all that matters.

    I have learnt a lot in the last 5 weeks and continue to. With 7 weeks more to go I am looking at a longterm conversion already, time will tell.


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    #663
    pprendeville
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭pprendeville


    upthe19th wrote: »
    5 weeks in and going good so far.

    A good few benefits observed so far. No muscle cramps anymore during/after races, sleeping better, more relaxed, weight drop and stable weight, better body condition over all, better skin condition and noticeable fat loss.

    I can only comment on my own observations and reactions to the diet. Overall so far its been great. I like it and it suits me. Maybe its not for everyone, but it really works for me and that's all that matters.

    I have learnt a lot in the last 5 weeks and continue to. With 7 weeks more to go I am looking at a longterm conversion already, time will tell.

    Pictures, we want pictures. Otherwise I refuse to believe. :D


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    #664
    upthe19th
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭upthe19th


    pprendeville wrote: »
    Pictures, we want pictures. Otherwise I refuse to believe. :D

    The world is not ready for that level of disclosure......


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    #665
    pprendeville
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭pprendeville


    Ah good aul Mrs. Moore. Didn't know she was on the aul keto diet. :)


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    #666
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    upthe19th wrote: »
    I can only comment on my own observations and reactions to the diet. Overall so far its been great. I like it and it suits me. Maybe its not for everyone, but it really works for me and that's all that matters..

    Best of luck.

    Your 100% right it's not for everyone. I seem to run good on it but I seem to be very flexible in regards to macro breakdown. Others seem to run very well on it.

    The answer to why some people adapt well is really interesting but it doesn't seem to be asked or discussed much.


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    #667
    pprendeville
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭pprendeville


    I'm on day 16 of the diet. Have basically remained same weight, body fat, body type (think spare tire) but don't feel like I did when I was on more carbs, feel healthier (I know it's a bland word but that's the way I feel) and don't get hunger pangs. No major drop in weight either due to loss of water during initial few days although I'm drinking about 3-4L per day, not sure if that's good or bad, probably good. Average intake of carbs at about 50g for those 15 days so that will be cut back little by little again due to being a little on high side. On a ratio of about 60-25-15 fat-protein-carbs. Yesterday was 75-20-5%/172-103-27g

    Was expecting more so I had my diet analysed and I was told I was eating too frequently, possibly have a slow metabolism. So I'm trying to just spread out my meals and consume that little bit less, 3 meals per day is the plan. Hopefully when I get back training the adaptations will be more evident. Will be a month off the bike next week due to exams.

    Anyone in the same boat as me or got any pointers?


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    #668
    sann
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭sann


    Hi All.
    I have been following this thread with great interest over the last few months and would have a interest in the theory and teachings of nutritionalist Barry Murray.
    Recently I have been sticking fairly rigidly to the lchf way of eating. For me it works very well, although it does also have it's disadvantages. Examples being when I try and train with our club racers. Without the high carb pre training meal and the high sugar energy bars I struggle with the high intensity stuff.
    I am still learning and on days I know I am going with the racers I will up the carbs a bit.
    I have been eating lchf with about 3 months now.
    Advantages. Weight loss. Better muscle definition. Improved sleep. Never hungry.
    Disadvantages. Struggled with high intensity training for the first few weeks. Lack of energy and poor mood in the first month.
    Today I woke at 8, had a 2 egg omelette. Went out with 2 bottles of water and a banana.
    Did 110k solo with 1000m of climbing with a 28.5 average.
    Very happy with this and I hope it means I'm at least a lot of the way of being fat adapted.
    Won't work for everyone but that's my own brief summary and In general I am glad I made the decision to switch to lchf.


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    #669
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Apologies in advance for boring lads senseless about food!

    Just a note on a 400km ride on Saturday. 17h 40 total time on bike with just under 16h pedalling.

    While I think calorie counting is a blind alley, at least without carefully consideration of macros and micros, I did it for Saturday for an experiment.

    According to Strava 7,500 calories used on bike. (Pinch of salt of course, do I add maintenance calories to that?)

    Skipped breakfast and between fruit, offal meat eggs and 500 ml sports drink and a snickers I consumed 1950 calories by finish.

    Felt really good at end. I kept eating a little even though not hungry for last 150km, however my body didn't want me putting food in. Despite feeling perfect nuts, banana and snickers caused me to gag. Nothing other than Drisheen causes a similar reaction. I never have got that before. No idea why

    How do make half a leg of lamb disappear? Do what I did Saturday and see what happens on Sunday :-)


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    #670
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11029975


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    #671
    mp31
    Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭mp31


    AstraMonti wrote: »
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11029975

    So eating extra calories (regardless of whether they are fat or carbs) will put on the same amount of weight i.e. the calories in/calories out approach to weight loss applies to both high fat and high carb diets.

    This is confusing as the main impression I got from high fat diets was that you didn't need to count calories and just ate what you wanted to eat (as long it was fat based) and the weight would come down.


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    #672
    OleRodrigo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭OleRodrigo


    I think the point is that energy from food is energy from food, it doesn't matter what type of food, if there is surplus requirements it will be stored as fat. High fat food is satiating, so your not likely to eat too much. High carb food can spike blood pressure giving you the impression you are hungry when its just blood sugar going up and down, causing you to take in more calories.

    Also, when its comes to fat burning, foods with a high GI ( Simple carbs ) will slow down the fat burning process, so you could eat X amount if calories with those and not notice much weight reduction, where as the same amount of calories in high fat could see more weight reduction, because the fat burning process has not been impacted.


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    #673
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    http://sigmanutrition.com/episode65

    Not really what was asked but with anything and nutrition it's complicated; not everybody is the same.

    In the podcast he refers to overfeeding studies, where subjects are deliberately ovefed; if calories in/calories out is correct each subject will gain the same amount of weight. However increasing calories ingested increases expenditure of calories but this increase varies between subjects across a spectrum.

    Also if calories are restricted the calories burned is also reduced. One side of the equation has an effect on the other.

    I'm not sure, on a calorie basis that fat is more satiating but protein for me certainly is. If you look at weight training their emphasis on a cut is normally a high protein diet with carbs and fats fairly moderate.

    HFLC seems to work well for lots of obese people, whether it is always the HFLC element of diet or the fact they go for an appalling diet comprising of a lot of processed foods and junk to a clean diet I'm not certain.

    The whole leptin, hypothalamus, cortisol side of things is overlooked for most part in dieting but an emphasis on a clean diet, reducing stress, good sleep and exercise probably assists with those elements even if we don't fully understand why


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    #674
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    A friend is asking me for a nutritionist as he doesn't have time to research it himself (aka lazy fecker). Any recommendations for dublin based nutrionists?


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    #675
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    AstraMonti wrote: »
    A friend is asking me for a nutritionist as he doesn't have time to research it himself (aka lazy fecker). Any recommendations for dublin based nutrionists?


    Trying to drop a few ponds or for specific athletic goal?

    My dog calls himself a nutrionists...:) AFAIK not a protected term but dietitian is.


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    #676
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    Just to drop weight, hopefully with incorporating some exercise. LOL at your dog :D Well.. you know what I am looking for anyway :P


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    #677
    ryan_sherlock
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭ryan_sherlock


    A note on one of the things I have found to be a magical elixir - bone broth (one of the (many) ways I make it) super simple & hard to mess up!

    http://ryansherlock.blogspot.ie/2015/06/making-super-simple-bone-broth-stock.html


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    #678
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    ryan_sherlock wrote: »
    A note on one of the things I have found to be a magical elixir - bone broth (one of the (many) ways I make it) super simple & hard to mess up!

    http://ryansherlock.blogspot.ie/2015/06/making-super-simple-bone-broth-stock.html

    Have you tried roasting bones? Get beef shin bones cut to 3"/4" lengths. Salt them and roast at about 200 for 20 mins.

    Very rich but add it at end stews etc, salads or heaven forbid roasted potatoes!

    Had a two starter lunch in Crawford in Cork lately, roasted bones with salad and sourdough and lamb kidneys.

    Bony cuts of slow cooked lamb stew has that flavour you mention also.

    The sad/funny thing is the tastiest/most nutritious cuts like neck/shoulder of lamb, shin beef, organ meet is really cheap and bones often free. Rib eye/ filet etc are expensive because they are convenient and scarce.

    I grew up eating our own beef and never heard saw of filet/rib eye etc until I left home. Other than Sunday roast a a very occasional steak the yearly slaughtered heifer was almost entirely stewed or minced. Aberdeen Angus to before it was cool! They have small heads which makes calfing easier for new cows.

    Beat that for trivia @doozerie :-)


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    #679
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    AstraMonti wrote: »
    Just to drop weight, hopefully with incorporating some exercise. LOL at your dog :D Well.. you know what I am looking for anyway :P

    @Astra did your work colleague have any luck with dietician?

    Other than eat clean, get all his nutrients from whole food, match carbs to activity level(if he doesn't want to eat like us cult members ), lift some weights and some cardio what else is there to it.

    The hard bit is changing habits and making new ones, support is probably more important there.

    Sigmanutrition.com and dominicmunenly.com are two decent sites.

    If he is time poor and stressed that's not going to help him either; western lifestyle is as much the problem as western diet


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    #680
    upthe19th
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭upthe19th


    upthe19th wrote: »
    5 weeks in and going good so far.

    A good few benefits observed so far. No muscle cramps anymore during/after races, sleeping better, more relaxed, weight drop and stable weight, better body condition over all, better skin condition and noticeable fat loss.

    I can only comment on my own observations and reactions to the diet. Overall so far its been great. I like it and it suits me. Maybe its not for everyone, but it really works for me and that's all that matters.

    I have learnt a lot in the last 5 weeks and continue to. With 7 weeks more to go I am looking at a longterm conversion already, time will tell.


    12 weeks completed with good results overall.

    A brief 2 day break from LCHF to mark the end of the study and now I'm back on the bandwagon.

    Aim is to continue with LCHF as, for me personally, the effects have been very beneficial.


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    #681
    kennyb3
    Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    Care to be more specific? In terms of 'good overall results' and 'very beneficial'. Sound like more cycling code such as 'going well'


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    #682
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    So I am getting close to two years of trying out lchf. In this time there have been times that I was very strict on keeping a lchf diet, times that I was loosely on a lchf diet and times that I wasn't paying too much attention. I 've taken 4 blood tests on these two years and when I was on a strict diet the results were the best. Althouth the cholesterol levels were elevated for a normal gp all the rest were much better. The more I went to carbs the worst my results became while cholesterol was "improving".

    Apart from waist and weight loss there was nothing different on how I felt after I got used to it. I 've concluded that my body can digest and process anything on the same way like a pig. It's just needs fuel, it doesn't really care how it will take it. Even on strict lchf with zero to low carbs I had no issues on the bike or in the gym lifting heavy or busting my ass on cardio with HR close to 200. At the moment I am trying to keep it as lchf as possible just because it's healthier and it's what makes sense.


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    #683
    upthe19th
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭upthe19th


    kennyb3 wrote: »
    Care to be more specific? In terms of 'good overall results' and 'very beneficial'. Sound like more cycling code such as 'going well'

    Yeah, fair point.

    It was strict LCHF and I kept to it rigidly. Averaged about 10 hours total training per week between gym, intervals, endurance and racing. Averaged 2 races a week, league and open. Performance in races was better, one win, one place and the rest were top 20 for the most part.

    I haven't got the full summary back yet but the rough figures on body comp look like this:

    - Body weight from 80.2kg to 76.5kg, with a lowest weight of 75.3kg
    - Lean muscle increase of somewhere between 1 - 1.5kg, not sure of exact figure again.
    - Body fat (dexa scan) between week 0 and week 6 reduced from 14.4% to 13.1%
    - Body fat (dexa scan) between week 7 and week 12 reduced from 13.1% to 9.8%


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    #684
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    upthe19th wrote: »
    Yeah, fair point.

    It was strict LCHF and I kept to it rigidly. Averaged about 10 hours total training per week between gym, intervals, endurance and racing. Averaged 2 races a week, league and open. Performance in races was better, one win, one place and the rest were top 20 for the most part.

    I haven't got the full summary back yet but the rough figures on body comp look like this:

    - Body weight from 80.2kg to 76.5kg, with a lowest weight of 75.3kg
    - Lean muscle increase of somewhere between 1.5 - 2kg, not sure of exact figure again.
    - Body fat (dexa scan) between week 0 and week 6 reduced from 14.4% to 13.1%
    - Body fat (dexa scan) between week 7 and week 12 reduced from 13.1% to 9.8%

    9.8% is pretty lean. World of difference with 14%.

    At a guess your getting lot of comments on your appearance; they probably went from complementary to a mix of jealous/concern around 12%. :)

    Well done and best of luck with rest of it


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    #685
    upthe19th
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭upthe19th


    ford2600 wrote: »
    9.8% is pretty lean. World of difference with 14%.

    At a guess your getting lot of comments on your appearance; they probably went from complementary to a mix of jealous/concern around 12%. :)

    Well done and best of luck with rest of it

    Thank you kindly.

    Yes, the difference was like night and day.

    The comments landed for the most part on the concern side. Plenty of slagging about turning into a lollipop-head, doing myself harm, being wreckless, irresponsible with my health, not needing to lose weight, losing too much weight, etc, etc.

    Tbh I took some slack from a lot of angles but do I care, not a bit.


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    #686
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    upthe19th wrote: »
    Thank you kindly.

    Yes, the difference was like night and day.

    The comments landed for the most part on the concern side. Plenty of slagging about turning into a lollipop-head, doing myself harm, being wreckless, irresponsible with my health, not needing to lose weight, losing too much weight, etc, etc.

    Tbh I took some slack from a lot of angles but do I care, not a bit.

    You have to remember that being lean is heading towards being abnormal the way society is getting fatter. TBH I knocked a bit of fun out of it, but I never went under 12%, I think my wife, sisters and sister in law would probably get together and force feed me if i hit 9%!

    High fat seems to really suit you, for me after two years on LCHF I'm not sure it really matters for me whether it LCHF, isocalorific or HC as long as food quality is good i.e. for HC source would be fruit, leafy greens, potatoes incl sweet, beetroots etc etc

    Taking pasta, rice, bread of the plate forced me to think about other food sources. As a result my veg intake is huge, I'd doubt there is many vegetarians eating more veg than me. There seems to be almost universal agreement that more veg is good.

    It's also led to me eating foods which are almost free but really tasty and really nutrient dense liver, homemade stock, bone marrow, bony fatty lamb cuts etc

    As part of the WIT are you doing a HIIT session every day? That put me off tbh, time and no turbo or any interest in turbo!


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    #687
    upthe19th
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭upthe19th


    Its a combination of high fat suiting me and high carb not suiting.

    Sugar and carb has an adverse effect on my muscles with regard to cramping. I didnt suffer from one cramp over the 12 week study regardless of the activity. Also my sleep greatly improved.

    The HIIT training was not every day for the study, only 3 sessions per week. I spread them as evenly as possible for the most part to allow for recovery in between.


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    #688
    tommy_tucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭tommy_tucker


    AstraMonti wrote: »
    it's what makes sense.

    Could you elaborate on why it makes more sense to you, i'm interested in how people arrive at this conclusion.


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    #689
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    tommy_tucker wrote: »
    Could you elaborate on why it makes more sense to you, i'm interested in how people arrive at this conclusion.



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95457741&postcount=640

    You have asked all this before....

    Carb the fcuk up, we get it thanks.


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    #690
    tommy_tucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭tommy_tucker


    ford2600 wrote: »
    [
    You have asked all this before....

    Carb the fcuk up, we get it thanks.

    No idea what your talking about, i'm thinking of getting in LCHF.


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    #691
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95723681&postcount=26

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95857074&postcount=7

    Apologies, easy mistake to make.


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