A boat full of carbs

petethedrummer

pprendeville wrote: »

Does anyone use Ghee for stir Frying? Wonder is it worth the hassle?

You can buy ghee in shops. Comes in a tin. No need to go making it yourself.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=267791644

pprendeville

petethedrummer wrote: »

You can buy ghee in shops. Comes in a tin. No need to go making it yourself.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=267791644

From grass fed cattle?

macadam

I know an English bloke who asked for Ghee in a shop Dundalk and he nearly got arrested, the poor hoor also had a speech impediment...Truth

ryan_sherlock

Just wanted to pop this up again - Barry Murray (http://www.optimumnutrition4sport.com/) and I will be talking on Tuesday evening in Dublin on this whole area. We charge (but more to cover costs - the Blu Radisson isn't cheap) but the real payback for me was during this season when fellow racers came up to me saying how it has changed their lives (mostly in relation to having more energy for rebalancing the work/life equation). More details etc: tinyurl.com/healthnov14 (I'm keeping the price at 29 for another day)

ford2600

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJcsTWLgd9Y

pprendeville

http://womenscycling.ie/beth-mccluskey-lchf-paleo-diets/

AstraMonti

I read that article a while back, she is mixing stuff in there just to get point across. Also lchf and paleo are different things, they borrow stuff from each other but they are a lot different on your plate. Anyway, I ll keep my opinion to myself as I am not a qualified nutrionist.

i_surge

All along i thought that the Phinney mentioned here had the first name Taylor! I feel robbed but relieved....no more guilt about not trying lchf

Are there any world class racers successfully following lchf? Not including ultra endurance steady state stuff

niceonetom

i_surge wrote: »

Are there any world class racers successfully following lchf? Not including ultra endurance steady state stuff

Good question. I don't know of any, and that's probably worth paying attention to.

There are prevarications made about how resistant to change the pros are, how in terms of both training and diet they are highly conservative and deathly afraid of not doing what their competitors are doing in the belief that this at least can't put them at a disadvantage. But there must also be some top level guys who are willing to experiment and throw the dice a bit in seeking gains in doing exactly what other competitors don't (legally!).

Barry Murray has some links to BMC but I haven' seen him claim that any of their guys follow actual HFLC regimes, maybe a more paleo-ish, whole-food approach is implied but it's hazy to me.

There are these ideas floating about of cyclical low-carbing - relativising what would constitute LOTS of carbs for us as still being low-carb in comparison to what most elite cyclists ordinarily eat. Between advocates of "carb back loading" and using carbs for recovery in general, slow carbs etc., it almost seems like there are nominally HFLC athletes who've worked in enough exceptions to the rule that their actual diet, for most of the year, can't really be all that different from anyone trying to eat clean with the possible exception of being more phobic of things like gluten.

That means that while Barry Murray and Beth McCluskey might think they belong to different tribes on the diet issue ("HFLC" vs "a balanced diet"), when it comes to the reality of what they'd have us eat in heavy training there's very little difference indeed. Or am I wrong about that?

That and the fact that as the level of competition goes up so does secrecy. We're really no idea what most pros eat or what they actually do on the bike.

ford2600

http://www.ultrarunning.com/features/health-and-nutrition/the-emerging-science-on-fat-adaptation/

AstraMonti

Scientists discover brain mechanism that drives us to eat glucose

kennyb3

Couple of things that have been 'bothering' me lately that I need help getting my head around;

- The paste(y) fat that's left when I don't clean the gridle/oven tray for couple of days. Or the paste that sticks to the sink when pouring out the remains of the butter I just fried in. This paste substance has me (probably unnecessarily) worried about how my body processes same? It 'clogs/sticks' to the sink so I know i'm associating that with sticking in my arteries. Reassurance anyone?

- If butter turns brown have I burnt it? I fried bacon in butter all the time - after a while it goes brown and sticks to the bacon and gives a delicious taste. Do i need to cook slower?

ford2600

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_183WF_DEY

Your in big trouble...

Fat isn't soluble in blood or water and is carried on lipoproteins along with proteins, cholesterol etc in the blood.


On butter add a little rape seed oil if you like higher than medium temperature. Helps raise smoke point or something

kennyb3

ford2600 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_183WF_DEY

Your in big trouble...

Fat isn't soluble in blood or water and is carried on lipoproteins along with proteins, cholesterol etc in the blood.


On butter add a little rape seed oil if you like higher than medium temperature. Helps raise smoke point or something

Thanks - it's a bit like in the cereal killers movie about red meat & catholic guilt. It's just an overriding message that is hard to get past at times.

ford2600

kennyb3 wrote: »

Thanks - it's a bit like in the cereal killers movie about red meat & catholic guilt. It's just an overriding message that is hard to get past at times.

You should read Kendrick's book on CVD. His theory on the real cause is fairly shaky(on the basis of his own assumptions alone) but is certainly worth a read.

Basically avoid stress, deal with depression, drink a little, eat real food and enjoy it, be sociable make new friends etc, enjoy your work, exercise( to combat stress and aid good sleep as much as anything) and of course on't smoke

lennymc

Just in case anyone is interested, I have it on very good authority that super-valu and centra butter is the same butter as kerrygold but with a different wrapper.

ford2600

lennymc wrote: »

Just in case anyone is interested, I have it on very good authority that super-valu and centra butter is the same butter as kerrygold but with a different wrapper.

Kerrygold is a great example of the power of marketting, once made from Irish milk i.e. grass fed butter package wouldn't bother me.


Any hflc out there using UCAN superstarch?

http://www.generationucan.com/super.html

The low carb part interests me the engineered food not so much

ford2600

If looking for a new fat for frying this is nice
http://www.jameswhelanbutchers.com/info/5954/beef-dripping-its-the-new-goose-fat/

Used it when cooking lamb's liver, various veg and (for carb backloading purposes only ) fryed potatoes after a long ride on Saturday.

I had to Google how it was made, very simple really. Was subsequently talking a local lady in her 60's who used to make it growing up. The mind boggles on what we have lost in terms of simple foods.

Ole Rodrigo

ford2600 wrote: »

If looking for a new fat for frying this is nice
http://www.jameswhelanbutchers.com/info/5954/beef-dripping-its-the-new-goose-fat/

Used it when cooking lamb's liver, various veg and (for carb backloading purposes only ) fryed potatoes after a long ride on Saturday.

I had to Google how it was made, very simple really. Was subsequently talking a local lady in her 60's who used to make it growing up. The mind boggles on what we have lost in terms of simple foods.

Funnily enough, I was looking at a packet of frytex yesterday - its made of beef drippings and rapeseed oil. My mum used to use it all the time when we were kids. Then it was deemed unhealthy and she switched to sunflower oil.

:rolleyes:

Ryath

From Cycling Irelands Facebook page maybe of interest to someone

Are you a male endurance rider aged between 18-40, and interested in being part of a research study, in turn for benefiting from testing and training/dietary intervention? If so contact fionnmc@hotmail.com from Waterford IT School of Health Science.
More details of the research and testing below:
Research Opportunity for competitive male endurance athletes aged (18 - 40 years), to take part in a 12 week training & dietary intervention. Participants must have a minimum of of two years endurance training experience and who complete at least 7 hours a week of endurance training.
Dietary Intervention:
Participants choose weather they would like to be in the high fat ketogenic group or the high carbohydrate group. Participants in the high fat ketogenic group must consume a high fat diet while restricting carbohydrate to 150g/d for 2 weeks, 100g/d for 2 weeks and 50g/d for the remaining 8 weeks.
Participants in the high carbohydrate group, consume a diet high in carbohydrate; 71% carbohydrate, 20% fat & 9% protein for 12 weeks.
Training Intervention:
Participants in both groups must complete a minimum of 7 hours a week endurance training, complete 3 strength sessions a week (non time invasive, each session will take 20 mins), and complete some high intensity interval training daily on a cycle ergometer (20 mins a day).
Testing:
Participants receive the following test complementary before and after the 12 week intervention. Information gathered from these tests will be used to analyse the effectiveness of each intervention.
1. 100km time trial (respiratory exchange ratio will be measured via the MOXUS; this tells us if you are burning fat or carbohydrate during exercise & how much of each)
2. Critical power test (measures: power output)
3. DXA scan (measures: body fat, muscle mass, bone density)
4. Lactate analysis (during exercise)
5. Blood sample (Analyse: LDL, HDL, cholesterol, haemoglobin)

i_surge

Anyone have experience with blood glucose measurement to optimise carb timing and intake?

i_surge

i_surge wrote: »

Anyone have experience with blood glucose measurement to optimise carb timing and intake?

I've been experimenting the last 5 weeks and have some concerns.

Diet has been mostly beef, chicken and seafood with lots of broths, 1 or 2 avocados daily, lentils, beans, large amounts of cruciferous veg and carrots, bell pepper, chillies, onions, aubergines, various herbs and salad leaves, coconut based curries. Nuts as a snack.

2 to 3 large meals per day. 2 to 3 coffees per day with cinnamon and/or green tea. Added a Multivitamin I never usually take, 2000mg fishoil and alpha lipoic acid.

Little to no fruit, except berries.

Maybe two cheatish meals per week with a small amount of rice, noodles or bread. I've had zero refined sugar apart from half a scoop of sorbet and half a mango parfait and 50g of 80% dark chocolate.

Two concerns...my bcg mark and a scar on my hand are starting to return having been absent for years. Blood tests show cholesterol and advised range as follows, non fasted test.

Total 197 (<200)
Hdl 48 (<55)
Ldl 135 (<130)
Triglycerides 97 (<200)

I want to be objective about these results, doctors interpretation is that they are bad.

Training was been light and low intensity due to injury with some resistance stuff (chinups, pushups, walking, swimming, air squats, core work).

I'm the leanest I've been in a long time, 4 pack abs and don't really crave food as often, sometimes doing an unplanned 16:8 type of fast.

Thoughts please

ford2600

"This constant haranguing about health has had an impact. It was first noticed by a US doctor called Clifton Meador."

"‘Nothing has changed so much in the health-care system over the past twenty-five years as the public’s perception of its own health. The change amounts to a loss of confidence in the human form. The general belief these days seems to be that the body is fundamentally flawed, subject to disintegration at any moment, always on the verge of mortal disease, always in need of continual monitoring and support by health-care professionals. This is a new phenomenon in our society.’"

doozerie

For quite a while after I started reducing carbs in my diet I sought out info on what really constitutes an LCHF diet. I found various descriptions, all anecdotal, many of them contradictory - suggestions that I encountered ranged from a diet of less than 20g carbs per day to a diet where carbs account for less than 10% of calories per day, and all of these suggestions raised more questions than answers for me.

Anyway, eventually I decided it didn't matter and I settled into a diet which I found worked well for me and was feasible to maintain. For me this means averaging somewhere between 80g and 100g carbs per day, more than that on training and racing days (which is an aspect of my diet that still raises questions I'm not happy I've answered well). Well, according to this How Low Carb is LCHF? article, which is one person's seemingly informed personal opinion, that means I follow a liberal LCHF diet:

My definition

Here’s my view on different levels of LCHF:

* Strict LCHF <20 gram carbs per day
* Moderate LCHF 20-50 grams per day
* Liberal LCHF 50-100 grams per day

The above numbers discount the fibre – you can deduct them from your carb counts. But don’t be fooled by the label “net carbs” on processed products. That’s usually just a way to trick you and I’d go so far as to suggest not eating anything with the words “net carbs” printed on it.

In addition, one could possibly add the concept “exercise-liberal LCHF” that Jonas Bergqvist coined. He argues that people who exercise a lot and eat large quantities of calories daily may also eat more than 100 gram carbs per day and still be mostly in fat-burning mode. This too could be called LCHF.

You can of course also eat more carbs than 100 grams and still be inspired by LCHF ideas and LCHF recipes.

There are many views and opinions on any diet of course, and LCHF is no exception, but the info I've found on that website is more balanced and considered than many I've read. Doesn't mean that article is right, of course, and perhaps hard rules/categorisations like those above simply are not appropriate for any diet, but it might be of interest to others.

pprendeville

doozerie wrote: »

For quite a while after I started reducing carbs in my diet I sought out info on what really constitutes an LCHF diet. I found various descriptions, all anecdotal, many of them contradictory - suggestions that I encountered ranged from a diet of less than 20g carbs per day to a diet where carbs account for less than 10% of calories per day, and all of these suggestions raised more questions than answers for me.

Anyway, eventually I decided it didn't matter and I settled into a diet which I found worked well for me and was feasible to maintain. For me this means averaging somewhere between 80g and 100g carbs per day, more than that on training and racing days (which is an aspect of my diet that still raises questions I'm not happy I've answered well). Well, according to this How Low Carb is LCHF? article, which is one person's seemingly informed personal opinion, that means I follow a liberal LCHF diet:



There are many views and opinions on any diet of course, and LCHF is no exception, but the info I've found on that website is more balanced and considered than many I've read. Doesn't mean that article is right, of course, and perhaps hard rules/categorisations like those above simply are not appropriate for any diet, but it might be of interest to others.

Are you on myFitnessPal? I'd love to have a look at your diet habits.

I am trying to get back into the LCHF although as more of a liberal. Have fallen off the cart recently and have added weight. I started intensive training roughly around December with a view to peaking around now. Illness and few other things have put things kinda on hold but what I did notice when I started the intensive training was that I started to crave carbs more and I ended up putting on weight (about 2.5kg).

Now, I've stepped back a little and have reduced the carbs significantly and don't having the cravings that I had. A friend of mine is doing Ryaths 12 week program of LCHF so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

ford2600

pprendeville wrote: »

Are you on myFitnessPal? I'd love to have a look at your diet habits.

I am trying to get back into the LCHF although as more of a liberal. Have fallen off the cart recently and have added weight. I started intensive training roughly around December with a view to peaking around now. Illness and few other things have put things kinda on hold but what I did notice when I started the intensive training was that I started to crave carbs more and I ended up putting on weight (about 2.5kg).

Now, I've stepped back a little and have reduced the carbs significantly and don't having the cravings that I had. A friend of mine is doing Ryaths 12 week program of LCHF so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

Is your friend on 12 week programme racing?

I looked at it but, daily HIIT training, 3 weight training sessions per week and 7 hours minimum on bike seem like a lot of sessions.

My understanding of HIIT is you should allow 48hrs for recovery of fast twitch fibres(or something along those lines). The daily HIIT put me off signing up

pprendeville

ford2600 wrote: »

Is your friend on 12 week programme racing?

I looked at it but, daily HIIT training, 3 weight training sessions per week and 7 hours minimum on bike seem like a lot of sessions.

My understanding of HIIT is you should allow 48hrs for recovery of fast twitch fibres(or something along those lines). The daily HIIT put me off signing up

I didn't know there were HIIT sessions included in this, thought it was all at endurance pace? Will find out from him, he's currently doing the 100km TT, indoors imagine. :eek:

I also would have been keen to do the program but I thought it was leaning too far towards carbs or proteins/fats when I think a greater balance is necessary when racing.

upthe19th

pprendeville wrote: »

I didn't know there were HIIT sessions included in this, thought it was all at endurance pace? Will find out from him, he's currently doing the 100km TT, indoors imagine. :eek:

I also would have been keen to do the program but I thought it was leaning too far towards carbs or proteins/fats when I think a greater balance is necessary when racing.

I don't have to....;)

doozerie

pprendeville wrote: »

Are you on myFitnessPal? I'd love to have a look at your diet habits.

I am trying to get back into the LCHF although as more of a liberal. Have fallen off the cart recently and have added weight. I started intensive training roughly around December with a view to peaking around now. Illness and few other things have put things kinda on hold but what I did notice when I started the intensive training was that I started to crave carbs more and I ended up putting on weight (about 2.5kg).

Now, I've stepped back a little and have reduced the carbs significantly and don't having the cravings that I had. A friend of mine is doing Ryaths 12 week program of LCHF so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

Yes, I am on myFitnessPal. I'll PM you the details if you like but my eating habits are reasonably consistent from day to day and this sample day is fairly representative (nutrient measures are from myFitnessPal, seem to be mostly accurate):

* Breakfast: Salted pistachios - 25g; 3x Large eggs scrambled in salted butter (30g); 1x Kiwi; Coffee
-> Carbs = 11g, Fat = 59g; Protein = 33g

* Mid-morning snack: Brazil nuts (50g)
-> Carbs = 3g, Fat = 34g, Protein = 8g

* Lunch: Mayonnaise (4tbsp); Roast beef (50g); Mature cheddar (30g); Tomatoes (175g); 6x Cherry tomatoes; Lettuce (40g); Spinach (40g); Greek style yoghurt (150ml); Berries (50g)
-> Carbs = 17g, Fat = 67g, Protein = 32g

* Dinner: Smoked salmon (75g) in Cream (100ml); Pasta (17g); Wholewheat pasta (17g); Courgette (150g) fried in salted butter (30g); Cream (150ml) whipped; Berries (100g)
-> Carbs = 41g, Fat = 134g, Protein = 30g

* Late evening snack (occasional): Aldi 85% chocolate (25g)
-> Carbs = 5g, Fat = 12g, Protein = 2g

Totals for the day: Carbs = 77g, Fat = 306g, Protein = 105g

Breakfast remains the same most days, I vary the protein portion of lunch each day (ham, prawns, tuna, chicken, etc.), dinner varies most often, some days I snack on more or less chocolate in the evenings and sometimes it's cheese instead. Most days I'm a little over 80g of carbs, some dinners push it closer to 100g when there are substantial vegetables involved.

I don't keep track of fibre, simply because myFitnessPal doesn't. I'd like to, but moving to a different diet tracking service at this stage would be a real challenge so apathy wins out.

On light/short training days I have a protein shake (300ml Full fat milk, 30g Kinetica Whey powder) after my workout. On heavy/long training days, and race days, I have a banana, up to 250ml fruit juice, plus the same shake, afterwards.

For training rides I don't eat on the bike, I drink salted water. For races I don't eat on the bike either, but drink High5 4:1 energy drink - the Des Hanlon A3 has been my longest race to date and over the 3h25 of that (where I was not competitive) I drank about 300ml of it (about 20g carbs).

On racing days where the race overlaps lunch I usually have a bigger breakfast by adding a couple of rashers to my usual ingredients. I also eat cheese and a couple of buttered ryvita slices ahead of the race if it starts at lunchtime or close to it, just to stave off hunger mainly although the ryvita slices provide 7g carbs each.

So far I've yet to feel during a race that I've been held back due to lack of carbs, it's just lack of legs, but I obviously can't say for sure. The High5 has plenty of carbs in it so although I don't drink much of it it certainly packs a carb wallop relatively speaking. I have most questions about post training/racing diet still, the proportion of carbs I take then is based on the suggestion of a ratio of 2:1 carbs versus protein which seems to be a common recommendation but I need to read up more on that.

pprendeville

That's brillant. Thanks for that. If you could send me on your MFP details that would be great. I've started using it consistently the last week so hopefully I can keep it up. Just provides me with accountability. Also the fact that UpThe19th has started on his LCHF journey is giving me some extra motivation to go back to this method more rigidly. I never really followed through on it last year when I got back from China and the proof is in the pudding (of which I was eating too much).

I have been averaging 200-300km per week since last September and was puzzled as to why I've been putting on weight. I believe I was over consuming carbs and especially late in the evening when I got back from college. This left me bloated and unsatiated at the same time. So a return to a better diet, very similar to yours in fact is what I've planned.

Note: I also find it good to keep the dishes similar day to day as it eliminates the need to be looking up new ones the whole time and getting possibly sidetracked. However, I've started using Pinterest to create my own menus. I've got boards for chicken, fish, healthy snacks etc and find it much better than Googling LCHF recipes or going back to IBreatheImHungry the whole time.