Boundary Extension for City?

Irishlad2014 · 18-06-2015 6:14pm #1

So WLR have been reporting that a Boundary Commission is to be set up to take a look at the city boundaries to the north, ie. Ferrybank and on towards Belview. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Considering the bad planning and the bad upkeep on behalf of KK CC over there I would imagine the boundary will be changed this time. Thoughts?

wmpdd3 · 18-06-2015 6:44pm

It's only just getting better over here as long as you don't mention water.
Having the kk office over the library helps.

Irishlad2014 · 18-06-2015 7:19pm

Well considering they put the planning through for the shopping centre, I suppose they had to put something in there. It must be the most expensive library in Ireland

Jamie2k9 · 18-06-2015 9:14pm

Not sure it will happen even if recommended however you never know Paudie Coffey may actually do his first useful thing since been elected!!

Out interest can the Government over rule objections from Kilkekny Co Co, now that Big Phil is gone and FG lost the seat to FF they probably have low chances of regaining it so it may secure Waterford if they get it past....

Irishlad2014 · 19-06-2015 3:31pm

Considering one of the reasons for amalgamation of the councils was to increase Waterford Citys "critical mass" (thus Tramore and Dunmore East are now part of the metropolitan district of the city, I see no reason why a suburb of Waterford that happens to be in another county and less then a mile away as the crow flies from Waterford City hall cannot be incorporated into Waterford City.

BBM77 · 19-06-2015 4:23pm

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

Considering one of the reasons for amalgamation of the councils was to increase Waterford Citys "critical mass"...

Yes that was the reason for the amalgamation!

Irishlad2014 · 19-06-2015 4:26pm

BBM77 wrote: »

Yes that was the reason for the amalgamation!

Well it was one of the reasons brought up by the FG Councillors at the city hall meetings

Max Powers · 20-06-2015 10:46am

its a sensible thing to do in fairness, just like Tipperary might be better off taking over Carrick-begs admininstration, but people will pull out the relevant GAA jersey and bite of their nose to spite their face

wellboy76 · 22-06-2015 12:33pm

Always the GAA argument. Small minds

hardybuck · 22-06-2015 1:59pm

GAA would proceed as normal. Ferrybank play in Waterford, and players from that club can be selected for Waterford. Similarly Slieverue play their games in Kilkenny, and the same applies to them. Neither club has too much influence on county teams anyway, so it's a bit of a storm in a teacup.

It's not the only county which has boundary issues, but it's the only city which has this issue in relation to the far side of it's river.

The Adversary · 23-06-2015 7:19pm

Been waiting for this for years. Hopefully it will happen this time, although it'll be the cult of Kilkenny GAA who will shout the loudest and ironically have the littlest to say and are in the minority in Ferrybank/Newrath

robtri · 23-06-2015 7:29pm

Jesus, I hope this doesnt happen.... like if it does, who will waterford city have to blame for all their problems....

hardybuck · 24-06-2015 10:12am

Deasy in the news regarding the priority items for Waterford http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/6194-north-quays-not-main-priority-city-centre-must-come-first-deasy-6194.html

Digital Society · 24-06-2015 10:56am

robtri wrote: »

Jesus, I hope this doesnt happen.... like if it does, who will waterford city have to blame for all their problems....

There will be no problems. It will be a perfect utopia.

wellboy76 · 24-06-2015 4:43pm

You'd swear there was an election coming!

Junior · 25-06-2015 9:41pm

We'll get compared to the Nazi's in 3..2...

Buck Melanoma · 28-06-2015 1:19am

Junior wrote: »

We'll get compared to the Nazi's in 3..2...

Genuine question... You think it is ok to take land belonging to a different county ??

Nypd · 28-06-2015 2:35am

Buck Melanoma wrote: »

Genuine question... You think it is ok to take land belonging to a different county ??

When the other county is blatantly making a pigs ear of it and it directly effects Waterford City the answer is yes, yes and yes again.

BBM77 · 28-06-2015 9:48pm

Buck Melanoma wrote: »

Genuine question... You think it is ok to take land belonging to a different county ??

What are you on about? Nobody will be taking land. The people who own the land will still own it. All that will change is medieval boundaries that have no practical relevance to local government administration today. Quite frankly Kilkenny County Council have brought this on themselves as much as anything else. As far as I am concerned the granting of planning permission for the Ferrybank Shopping Centre shows they are not fit to administer the area. So yes I think it is ok for Waterford city to administer the area.

The county based local administration we have in this country is way pasted it use be date. It’s a joke. Waterford city with a population of 46,732 has no local authority of any kind of its own anymore but County Leitrim with a population 31,798 has a full county council. For example west county Waterford should be merged with Tipperary county council and the Metropolitan district should be a full local authority. The Metropolitan district and west county Waterford have little in common in local administration terms.

Squidvicious · 29-06-2015 9:22am

BBM77 wrote: »

What are you on about? Nobody will be taking land. The people who own the land will still own it. All that will change is medieval boundaries that have no practical relevance to local government administration today. Quite frankly Kilkenny County Council have brought this on themselves as much as anything else. As far as I am concerned the granting of planning permission for the Ferrybank Shopping Centre shows they are not fit to administer the area. So yes I think it is ok for Waterford city to administer the area.

The county based local administration we have in this country is way pasted it use be date. It’s a joke. Waterford city with a population of 46,732 has no local authority of any kind of its own anymore but County Leitrim with a population 31,798 has a full county council. For example west county Waterford should be merged with Tipperary county council and the Metropolitan district should be a full local authority. The Metropolitan district and west county Waterford have little in common in local administration terms.

I agree with most of that. I'm in that zone which is currently KCC but will almost certainly be switched to WCCC if there is a boundary extension. I'm completely against the extension if it's simply a matter of shifting the border a few hundred yards up the road. That won't solve anything and it's simply perpetuating what's wrong with the current system. I really don't see that WCCC will do any better than KCC at running my neck of the woods. It's tweedledum versus tweedledee as far as I can see.

However, I accept that the current division is outdated. Far better to radically reorganise the county system. The old counties can still exist, if that's what you're into. However, new administrative divisions are needed to reflect the modern world. 100 years ago, most of us travelled little so it made sense to have us divided into small counties for local government purposes. The country is much smaller today. Now we often live miles from where we work, shop etc. Why not have one "county" for all of the South-East? Alternatively, copy the Northern system where each "county" is based around the nearest main town(though the problem there is that there are far too many "counties").

The Adversary · 29-06-2015 11:53am

Buck Melanoma wrote: »

Genuine question... You think it is ok to take land belonging to a different county ??

Ferrybank is Waterford... and that's coming from someone from the area.

Squidvicious · 29-06-2015 1:18pm

The Adversary wrote: »

Ferrybank is Waterford... and that's coming from someone from the area.

I'm from the area too, I know many(also from the area) who would disagree strongly. That includes me. Though, as I've said above, that doesn't mean I'm against a sensible reorganisation.

The Adversary · 29-06-2015 2:33pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

I'm from the area too, I know many(also from the area) who would disagree strongly. That includes me. Though, as I've said above, that doesn't mean I'm against a sensible reorganisation.

Push the border up as far as the golf course and include Newrath.
All though I'd be firmly Waterford I can never see it happening to be honest because any debates always end in GAA style mudslinging which both sides are guilty of. I think it should be put to a vote to the people of Ferrybank, I think too often the debate is muddied from people from Waterford City and other parts of South Kilkenny. Obviously places like Slieverue and Mooncoin are Kilkenny, but Ferrybank is a special case and I don't think anyone would deny that.

CardBordWindow · 29-06-2015 3:02pm

The Adversary wrote: »

Push the border up as far as the golf course and include Newrath.
All though I'd be firmly Waterford I can never see it happening to be honest because any debates always end in GAA style mudslinging which both sides are guilty of. I think it should be put to a vote to the people of Ferrybank, I think too often the debate is muddied from people from Waterford City and other parts of South Kilkenny. Obviously places like Slieverue and Mooncoin are Kilkenny, but Ferrybank is a special case and I don't think anyone would deny that.

Very true!

jayboi · 29-06-2015 3:17pm

I would imagine the sensible thing to do would to include all lands inside the bypass over there in Waterford administrative area.

The Adversary · 29-06-2015 3:23pm

jayboi wrote: »

I would imagine the sensible thing to do would to include all lands inside the bypass over there in Waterford administrative area.

In an ideal world yes. But that would include Slieverue/Mullinabro and the amount of resistance in those areas would be absolutely fierce. It'd never happen in a million years. The entire village of Ferrybank and Newrath and be done with it.

wellboy76 · 29-06-2015 3:26pm

jayboi wrote: »

I would imagine the sensible thing to do would to include all lands inside the bypass over there in Waterford administrative area.

Thats how the Guards do it.

jayboi · 29-06-2015 4:42pm

wellboy76 wrote: »

Thats how the Guards do it.

Id imagine the fire service as well. Is the any rational reason against that doesn't involve GAA?

robtri · 29-06-2015 9:46pm

The Adversary wrote: »

Ferrybank is Waterford... and that's coming from someone from the area.

ferrybank is currently KK so no matter what you think its not...

this is about who would be best to administer the area...

is this something just Waterford Council are considering?? or is KK involved or is there an external Boundry commision?

robtri · 29-06-2015 9:47pm

jayboi wrote: »

Id imagine the fire service as well. Is the any rational reason against that doesn't involve GAA?

Fire service go a good bit up the M9 ... first exit I believe.... if Heathen is around he can answer that better than me

Jamie2k9 · 29-06-2015 10:11pm

is this something just Waterford Council are considering?? or is KK involved or is there an external Boundry commision?

External

ferrybank is currently KK so no matter what you think its not...

If it's KK then why were they happy to sell land to Waterford?

robtri · 29-06-2015 10:28pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

External

If it's KK then why were they happy to sell land to Waterford?

Is there a website link for the Boundary commision anyone no??

whether they happy to sell it or not again is irrelevant to the point that they own it....

Wanderer78 · 29-06-2015 10:45pm

jasus this is nearly as serious as crimea and russia. hope your all building your battle posts

fuzzy dunlop · 30-06-2015 4:36am

robtri wrote: »

Is there a website link for the Boundary commision anyone no??

whether they happy to sell it or not again is irrelevant to the point that they own it....

There seems to be some confusion between KK cc "authority" and ownership. County Councils don't "own" the land inside their boundaries. They are just responsible for implementing local government responsibilities such as planning etc. Being from Kilkenny does not necessarily mean that you have some pre-ordained right to preferential treatment than somebody from another county. You can buy land in any county in Ireland and you can do what you want with that land as long as it is in accordance with the regulations which are legislated for by the national government. Being from the county is not a mitigating factor at all! People might wish it were otherwise but the fact is its not. So there really are two questions at stake. The first is can the local government needs of South Kilkenny and Waterford be better met from a more geographically local Waterford City who are more familiar with the area due to proximity or a more remote Kilkenny City who see the place in the same way as we see the west of county Waterford. And secondly if there is a boundary change can the identity of those who consider themselves from Kilkenny be preserved? Surely this is possible by just giving Waterford County Council authority over the townlands within the bypass without changing the "traditional boundary".

Flying Abruptly · 30-06-2015 8:46am

robtri wrote: »

ferrybank is currently KK so no matter what you think its not...

About half of Ferrybank is inside the Waterford boundary. The boundary can be clearly seen in google maps.

The areas of Rockshire road, Belmuont and Abbey Park are in KK.

The Adversary · 30-06-2015 9:54am

Flying Abruptly wrote: »

About half of Ferrybank is inside the Waterford boundary. The boundary can be clearly seen in google maps.

The areas of Rockshire road, Belmuont and Abbey Park are in KK.

And when the boundary was drawn, those areas within the Waterford border was the whole of Ferrybank. I think now its about time the entirety of Ferrybank went home to where it belongs, which is Waterford.

Irishlad2014 · 30-06-2015 10:56am

Do the Kilkenny people over in Ferrybank still use VIA Waterford on their mail? LOL

mountcisco · 30-06-2015 11:19am

robtri wrote: »

Is there a website link for the Boundary commision anyone no??

whether they happy to sell it or not again is irrelevant to the point that they own it....

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/LocalGovernmentReform/News/MainBody,41934,en.htm

wellboytoo · 30-06-2015 11:33am

mountcisco wrote: »

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/LocalGovernmentReform/News/MainBody,41934,en.htm

I read this in it's entirety and if it is taken at face value and there is no political skullduggery, it is a slamdunk to extend the boundary based on the parameters set out in the guidelines.
But i don't believe in Angels, Fairies, or God so we will wait and see.

wellboytoo · 30-06-2015 12:16pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

There seems to be some confusion between KK cc "authority" and ownership. County Councils don't "own" the land inside their boundaries. They are just responsible for implementing local government responsibilities such as planning etc. Being from Kilkenny does not necessarily mean that you have some pre-ordained right to preferential treatment than somebody from another county. You can buy land in any county in Ireland and you can do what you want with that land as long as it is in accordance with the regulations which are legislated for by the national government. Being from the county is not a mitigating factor at all! People might wish it were otherwise but the fact is its not. So there really are two questions at stake. The first is can the local government needs of South Kilkenny and Waterford be better met from a more geographically local Waterford City who are more familiar with the area due to proximity or a more remote Kilkenny City who see the place in the same way as we see the west of county Waterford. And secondly if there is a boundary change can the identity of those who consider themselves from Kilkenny be preserved? Surely this is possible by just giving Waterford County Council authority over the townlands within the bypass without changing the "traditional boundary".

Amazing clarity for 0430 am, Well done Sir

Squidvicious · 30-06-2015 12:18pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

I read this in it's entirety and if it is taken at face value and there is no political skullduggery, it is a slamdunk to extend the boundary based on the parameters set out in the guidelines.
But i don't believe in Angels, Fairies, or God so we will wait and see.

It does seem that Alan Kelly is serious about it. As you say, it looks as though a boundary extension will go through. That said, the timing is not great if you want the extension to go through. With an election looming early next year, it's hard to see it being pushed through before then. After that, it'll be a question of whether a new government wants to implement it (assuming that a boundary extension is recommended).

For me, the City/County merger was very much a retrograde step. While I would have no difficulty being part of a new Waterford Metropolitan area county(comprising East Waterford and South Kilkenny), I have no desire to be part of a wider Waterford City and County. Aren't the official headquarters in Dungarvan? People argue that it makes little sense for Ferrybank to be administered from Kilkenny. To me, it makes no more sense to have the entire county of Waterford from Passage to Tallow administered as one. For example, will money raised in the City be used to subsidise the West of the county? Alan Kelly would have done far better to set up a review into our overall local government structure and carry out a wholesale review. Put in place new and logical local government boundaries and let the traditional county boundaries remain in the same way as provincial boundaries remain even if they have no administrative relevance any longer.

Squidvicious · 30-06-2015 12:25pm

The Adversary wrote: »

And when the boundary was drawn, those areas within the Waterford border was the whole of Ferrybank. I think now its about time the entirety of Ferrybank went home to where it belongs, which is Waterford.

Or alternatively, transfer it all back to Kilkenny where it originally was:D

The Adversary · 30-06-2015 1:24pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

Or alternatively, transfer it all back to Kilkenny where it originally was:D

"Never"

Although, it'd be certainly better to the status quo we have now where the village is in two county's.

The Adversary · 30-06-2015 1:36pm

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

Do the Kilkenny people over in Ferrybank still use VIA Waterford on their mail? LOL

Actually, I'm in the part of Ferrybank that's technically part of KK and I put "Waterford" on my address. The post gets here just fine.

hardybuck · 30-06-2015 1:46pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

It does seem that Alan Kelly is serious about it. As you say, it looks as though a boundary extension will go through. That said, the timing is not great if you want the extension to go through. With an election looming early next year, it's hard to see it being pushed through before then. After that, it'll be a question of whether a new government wants to implement it (assuming that a boundary extension is recommended).

For me, the City/County merger was very much a retrograde step. While I would have no difficulty being part of a new Waterford Metropolitan area county(comprising East Waterford and South Kilkenny), I have no desire to be part of a wider Waterford City and County. Aren't the official headquarters in Dungarvan? People argue that it makes little sense for Ferrybank to be administered from Kilkenny. To me, it makes no more sense to have the entire county of Waterford from Passage to Tallow administered as one. For example, will money raised in the City be used to subsidise the West of the county? Alan Kelly would have done far better to set up a review into our overall local government structure and carry out a wholesale review. Put in place new and logical local government boundaries and let the traditional county boundaries remain in the same way as provincial boundaries remain even if they have no administrative relevance any longer.

In fairness to Kelly, he has proved himself very capable in stabalising the Irish Water situation after Hogan's departure to the EU. He seems to be a man who get's things done, so people should keep an open mind here.

In relation to the City/County council merger, it might faciliate one or two more moves, perhaps towards a Waterford Regional Authority, or something along those lines. 12 months on, can anybody notice the difference? On paper it was supposed to create a lot of administrative savings, so I'd be all for that if it delivered upon that.

One positive is that there should be joined up thinking in terms of planning between places like the city, Dunmore East and Tramore areas which are all quite reliant on each other.

Irishlad2014 · 30-06-2015 3:23pm

YurOK2 wrote: »

I don't live in Ferrybank, I live in Slieverue and have been directed by the post office to put "via Waterford" in my address, otherwise post can go missing and if it is eventually received there is a sticker on the item showing my full address including the line "via Waterford" and the sticker states something along the lines of ensure I have given my correct address to the sender. Not sure what's so LOL about that?

I just find it funny is all, not like there are loads of Slieverue dotted all over the country

YurOK2 · 30-06-2015 3:31pm

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

I just find it funny is all, not like there are loads of Slieverue dotted all over the country

Well, take that up with An Post

fuzzy dunlop · 30-06-2015 4:51pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

It does seem that Alan Kelly is serious about it. As you say, it looks as though a boundary extension will go through. That said, the timing is not great if you want the extension to go through. With an election looming early next year, it's hard to see it being pushed through before then. After that, it'll be a question of whether a new government wants to implement it (assuming that a boundary extension is recommended).

For me, the City/County merger was very much a retrograde step. While I would have no difficulty being part of a new Waterford Metropolitan area county(comprising East Waterford and South Kilkenny), I have no desire to be part of a wider Waterford City and County. Aren't the official headquarters in Dungarvan? People argue that it makes little sense for Ferrybank to be administered from Kilkenny. To me, it makes no more sense to have the entire county of Waterford from Passage to Tallow administered as one. For example, will money raised in the City be used to subsidise the West of the county? Alan Kelly would have done far better to set up a review into our overall local government structure and carry out a wholesale review. Put in place new and logical local government boundaries and let the traditional county boundaries remain in the same way as provincial boundaries remain even if they have no administrative relevance any longer.

No the official HQ is in Waterford City.

Shane07 · 30-06-2015 5:36pm

Should only be one office HQ in the city no need for Dungarvan at all.

robtri · 30-06-2015 10:26pm

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

Do the Kilkenny people over in Ferrybank still use VIA Waterford on their mail? LOL

and I live in south KK and i have to use via waterford..... otherwise i get well delayed mail.... the post office stick notes on my post that don't have via waterford

Squidvicious · 01-07-2015 9:02am

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

No the official HQ is in Waterford City.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. That said, I still think that Waterford is a county with two centres and that's problematic.

On a different note, does anyone know when is the last time that there has ever been a boundary change in this country?

Boundary Extension for City?

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