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Boundary Extension for City?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    Same way they did a few years ago when there was nothing there, and one could also add, who paid for the brand new sewage system that allowed all the development there, the massive upgrade in electrical power and gas supply that cost gazillions, not KK for sure.

    I'm not agreeing with it - but highlighting that they'll make it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ Irishlad2014


    KKCC treat South Kilkenny as a cash cow simple as, its true what an earlier poster said, all you need do is look over there and see the rate led planning that they have granted. There is 2 unopened retail developments just outside the current city boundary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭ Squidvicious


    Kilkenny also has two centres. The second one being Waterford City. As much as nobody in Kilkenny city probably likes to admit it Waterford has much more historical and familial links with South Kilkenny than Kilkenny has. As a guy from Lukeswell said to me before. Waterford is "our town". Nothing to do with GAA loyalty just plain old sanity being spoken! Waterford is as important to County Kilkenny as Kilkenny is. More so to South County Kilkenny.
    Fair points which really underline how little sense our county boundaries make in this day and age. Realistically, why should the boundary extension stop at the ring road? As I said earlier, let's redraw the boundaries entirely. I am sure that many areas of the country would benefit. A lot of councils could be combined or amalgamated. For example, having abolished City Councils in Waterford and Limerick, why does Leitrim(with 25,000 or so people) have it's own County Council? We could go for councils grouped around towns or cities or alternatively regional councils. None of this need change traditional boundaries. Armagh is still Armagh, for example, despite not being a unitary council.

    Of course then if we had a South-Eastern Council, the battle would be over whether Kilkenny or Waterford ought to be the capital ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭ wellboytoo


    Interesting to read the KK forum and their slant on this,much more pro comments than on here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057455005


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    Interesting to read the KK forum and their slant on this,much more pro comments than on here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057455005


    So far it has been relatively civil. The usual suspects are trying to whip up bigoted hysteria again more akin to Northern Ireland at this time of year.The best thing that can be done is if these people are not given the oxygen of publicity. However what is gone over certain peoples heads is that this has nothing to do with Waterford. It is being driven by government to address similar issues in six of the countries main urban centers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,499 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    The difference this time over the last was there was no Commission set up who lets call a spade a spade if they are doing their jobs correctly will say WCC should be in full control.

    First thing would be to knock the pet elephant to the ground, out of town centers like that are not needed.

    KCC will have next to no say nor will WCC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ Irishlad2014


    Submission forms are currently available, at the Council offices in Bailey’s New Street, in the city and at the Civic Offices in Dungarvan. Have your say. Put an end to disastrous planning decisions made on that side of the river, Ferrybank Shopping Centre and Ross Abbey Shopping Centre - prime examples of KK Co Co Cash Cow attitude to Waterford when it comes to rates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    Submission forms are currently available, at the Council offices in Bailey’s New Street, in the city and at the Civic Offices in Dungarvan. Have your say. Put an end to disastrous planning decisions made on that side of the river, Ferrybank Shopping Centre and Ross Abbey Shopping Centre - prime examples of KK Co Co Cash Cow attitude to Waterford when it comes to rates.

    Any online option? Looked but could not find anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ Irishlad2014


    No, I looked myself just written. I believe there are some questions to answer on it too


  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭ Jambo


    BBM77 wrote: »
    Any online option? Looked but could not find anything.

    You can make online submissions here


    http://www.waterfordboundaryreview.ie/makesubmission.html


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ obezyana


    Anyone see the Facebook page...Republic of South Kilkenny..... It's pretty funny and pathetic at the same time. :D Ya swore they were being invaded by an evil army who were going to burn them all to the ground.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,499 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    The FG TD for KK has realized its an issue all of a sudden. I will be really surprised if ti manages to happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    obezyana wrote: »
    Anyone see the Facebook page...Republic of South Kilkenny..... It's pretty funny and pathetic at the same time. :D Ya swore they were being invaded by an evil army who were going to burn them all to the ground.

    ha ha and have u seen the comments around waterford?? u swear that KK was the devil incarnate, they way some people go on....

    Waterford CC are only doing this to try to get the port... they are the greedy ones wanting the money from down there


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭ wellboytoo


    robtri wrote: »
    ha ha and have u seen the comments around waterford?? u swear that KK was the devil incarnate, they way some people go on....

    Waterford CC are only doing this to try to get the port... they are the greedy ones wanting the money from down there

    Shows how little you know! It is a government initiative in three different boroughs to make a decision on the boundaries. A boundary commission set up of three independent people with no one from the areas involved to look at the practicality or not of the proposed alterations.
    So please don't be showing your own petty parochialism by trying to put down some one else's, it makes you look stupid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,499 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    robtri wrote: »
    ha ha and have u seen the comments around waterford?? u swear that KK was the devil incarnate, they way some people go on....

    Waterford CC are only doing this to try to get the port... they are the greedy ones wanting the money from down there

    KK only want the area as it props up the rest of the county....


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭ fricatus


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    KK only want the area as it props up the rest of the county....

    Yes, and they've basically admitted it within their own objection, which is visible on their website - read section 4.

    It looks like they'll be down by just under €2 million annually, which is basically an admission that this is the amount they're creaming off that area to subsidise the rest of the county.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    fricatus wrote: »
    Yes, and they've basically admitted it within their own objection, which is visible on their website - read section 4.

    It looks like they'll be down by just under €2 million annually, which is basically an admission that this is the amount they're creaming off that area to subsidise the rest of the county.

    possibly.. and what Waterford aren't going to cream off the money ???
    they are both after the area for the same reason... money... nothing to do with whats best...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    robtri wrote: »
    possibly.. and what Waterford aren't going to cream off the money ???
    they are both after the area for the same reason... money... nothing to do with whats best...

    Well you can't say what Waterford is going to do as they haven't done it. What's clear KK county council is not going to spend the money in the Ferrybank Area as its well known they have an utter disdain for the place because of its proximity to Waterford. You only have to look at some of the commments on the Kilkenny forum to see it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ O Riain


    fricatus wrote: »
    Yes, and they've basically admitted it within their own objection, which is visible on their website - read section 4.

    It looks like they'll be down by just under €2 million annually, which is basically an admission that this is the amount they're creaming off that area to subsidise the rest of the county.

    That is a fair point and one that I am sure that any Ferrybank person cannot be happy with. The place is totally neglected and you'd have to wonder where this €2 million is going because it is most definitely not going back into the area from where it came.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    fricatus wrote: »
    Yes, and they've basically admitted it within their own objection, which is visible on their website - read section 4.

    It looks like they'll be down by just under €2 million annually, which is basically an admission that this is the amount they're creaming off that area to subsidise the rest of the county.


    That's interesting indeed so the Ferrybank area subzidizes the rest of the county to the tune of 20%. That is less than 5% of the population and maybe 1% of the land area.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    Well you can't say what Waterford is going to do as they haven't done it. What's clear KK county council is not going to spend the money in the Ferrybank Area as its well known they have an utter disdain for the place because of its proximity to Waterford. You only have to look at some of the commments on the Kilkenny forum to see it.

    no different than the utter disdain even posted here...

    besides the shopping centre what have they done wrong??? its not like Waterford CC have put any effort into there parts over there...

    this is just a money grabbing plan by Waterford CC to try to get the port and the revenues generated there.

    Both Waterford and KK do not have ferrybank or its people best interests at heart....


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭ fricatus


    robtri wrote: »
    besides the shopping centre what have they done wrong???

    Is that not enough of a monumental error for you?

    robtri wrote: »
    its not like Waterford CC have put any effort into there parts over there...

    Aren't they paying for the demolition of the big silos (whenever that will happen is another matter) and didn't they pay for the cleanup of the Jury's site? They don't control much more of the area than that anyway. Didn't they even build council housing at Belmont?

    robtri wrote: »
    Both Waterford and KK do not have ferrybank or its people best interests at heart....

    KK: creaming off €2 million a year from the area and allowing planning permission for a huge white-elephant shopping centre so they could cream off even more.
    Waterford: cleaning up Jury's; attempting to clean up and develop the North Quays.

    Which council would you say has the better record? If I'm wrong about anything here, or if I've missed out on any of KK council's good works, please provide examples. I'm happy to change my mind if I see evidence, but these are all the big-ticket items I'm aware of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    fricatus wrote: »
    Is that not enough of a monumental error for you?




    Aren't they paying for the demolition of the big silos (whenever that will happen is another matter) and didn't they pay for the cleanup of the Jury's site? They don't control much more of the area than that anyway. Didn't they even build council housing at Belmont?




    KK: creaming off €2 million a year from the area and allowing planning permission for a huge white-elephant shopping centre so they could cream off even more.
    Waterford: cleaning up Jury's; attempting to clean up and develop the North Quays.

    Which council would you say has the better record? If I'm wrong about anything here, or if I've missed out on any of KK council's good works, please provide examples. I'm happy to change my mind if I see evidence, but these are all the big-ticket items I'm aware of.

    waterford port has been built up by KK so why shouldnt they collect rates...
    why should waterford cc get them when they have done nothing but just want to swoop in now it is built up and take the money.....

    really how is them north quays.. ohh yeah same has been for last 10 years.... a mess and a shambles, yeah well great job....

    my point was not that KK where any better, it just waterford are no better than kk... they have made loads of mistakes as well ....
    but if u care not to see that, so be it....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    Pat Kenny on Newstalk will be talking about this between now and 12.30, on catch up soon after the show ends if you miss it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    on now


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    robtri wrote: »
    waterford port has been built up by KK so why shouldnt they collect rates...
    why should waterford cc get them when they have done nothing but just want to swoop in now it is built up and take the money.....

    really how is them north quays.. ohh yeah same has been for last 10 years.... a mess and a shambles, yeah well great job....

    my point was not that KK where any better, it just waterford are no better than kk... they have made loads of mistakes as well ....
    but if u care not to see that, so be it....

    This post sums up you attitude beautifully and in a slam dunk way illustrates how you absolutely have no clue. The North Quays are in private ownership and have been for years. While NAMA is a state agency it is still legally a private entity. So the idea the WCC can just send in bulldozers is a dim witted notion.

    But what is truly laughable is the fact that you think KKCC has "built up' the port. This was done by the port and through funding from central government and despite its location is still called Waterford Port legally. A fact KKCC find it extremely hard to admit hence the coniula reference to it as Belview.

    Waterford CC just as bad as Kilkenny CC:D If clutching at staws was an olympic sport we'd be parading you around Dublin on an open top bus;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    robtri wrote: »
    no different than the utter disdain even posted here...

    besides the shopping centre what have they done wrong??? its not like Waterford CC have put any effort into there parts over there...

    this is just a money grabbing plan by Waterford CC to try to get the port and the revenues generated there.

    Both Waterford and KK do not have ferrybank or its people best interests at heart....

    Well KK certainly doesn't. But again you can't say what Waterford would do as they haven't the opportunity to do it.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    robtri wrote: »
    no different than the utter disdain even posted here...

    besides the shopping centre what have they done wrong??? its not like Waterford CC have put any effort into there parts over there...

    this is just a money grabbing plan by Waterford CC to try to get the port and the revenues generated there.

    Both Waterford and KK do not have ferrybank or its people best interests at heart....

    the other shopping centre past the school
    total lack of investment in water, I think Waterford were handling it for last few years until irish water took over
    entrance to Waterford from motorway has been a disgrace for years, recently cut the grass there but little to zero maintenance of road side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    This post sums up you attitude beautifully and in a slam dunk way illustrates how you absolutely have no clue. The North Quays are in private ownership and have been for years. While NAMA is a state agency it is still legally a private entity. So the idea the WCC can just send in bulldozers is a dim witted notion.

    But what is truly laughable is the fact that you think KKCC has "built up' the port. This was done by the port and through funding from central government and despite its location is still called Waterford Port legally. A fact KKCC find it extremely hard to admit hence the coniula reference to it as Belview.

    Waterford CC just as bad as Kilkenny CC:D If clutching at staws was an olympic sport we'd be parading you around Dublin on an open top bus;)

    Interesting that, there is a thread here with a few pages of how Wcc have screwed up the demolition of them so far, so in fairness I say planning is not a strong point for them...

    It could be called the port of Dublin for all it matters, To date it has been under Kcc control and planning has been fine down there, been very beneficial for the area and supporting local employed, so I would say they have had a big hand in building it up....

    see this is where blind blinkers come into play, I don't think i have once said Kcc should or should not retain control of the area. But it is great how you jump to conclusions.... is that a gold medal for the long jump :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    Max Powers wrote: »
    the other shopping centre past the school
    total lack of investment in water, I think Waterford were handling it for last few years until irish water took over
    entrance to Waterford from motorway has been a disgrace for years, recently cut the grass there but little to zero maintenance of road side.

    quite agree.. and i think that Wcc have done nothing for the parts they control over there....


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